460 replies to this topic

[thefirstimmortal]

It does then seem plausible to add some 50% pure resveratrol to the mix to get a bit more emodin if the anti-lung cancer effects of emodin are to be given a chance.

What do you think of this, The First Immortal?

I know you are gone for a few days and I'm truly sorry to hear of your loss. But I figured I'd post this as something for you to consider when you return.

The thing that really caught my eye was that the first study was on small cell lung cancer, which I believe is the type you have? My thoughts on the study were that even if emodin doesn't knock out the cancer, maybe it will make it more susceptible to chemotherapy.
David

Thank You David,
As for what I think on the emodin, the experts Maxwatt and Anthony live and breathe this issue. I would like to hear their opinions on this.

Small cell is what I have, I was and still run under the assumption that pure 98% res in the way to go. I certainly wouldn’t dismiss new evidence if it helped destroy more of the tumor.

[thefirstimmortal]

Check out this blog. The writer is an immunologist and deals specifically with possible natural cures for cancer. Good luck!

http://www.grouppekurosawa.com/

Thank You Lufega,
I went in to review the site, all that was listed for protocols were the following.

Grouppe Kurosawa Treatment Protocols™

(Printer Friendly pages)

New!! The Grouppe Kurosawa General Cytotoxic Cancer/Leukemia Treatment Protocol (5.13.08)


The New Revised Grouppe Kurosawa HIV Treatment Protocol, Part's 1 & 2 (8.8.06)
This protocol is out of date. It is posted here for informational purposed only.

[thefirstimmortal]

Check out this blog. The writer is an immunologist and deals specifically with possible natural cures for cancer. Good luck!

http://www.grouppekurosawa.com/

Under Kurosawa Kocktail™: Cancer Treatment Targets, I found the following list to be interesting. Some of these target are ones we are working on, marked in red.

The Twenty-two Treatment Targets of lymphoid and non-lymphoid tumors are as follows. They are not listed in order of importance. We will list more Targets as our knowledge base increases over time.

Inhibit the activity or synthesis of the glucocorticoid receptor within the cancer cells.

Inhibit the activity of the PI3K/AKT cell activation/survival- pathway.

Inhibit the activity of the RAS/MEK/ERK cell activation pathway.

Inhibit the activity or synthesis of HIF-1, hypoxia inducible factor, within the cancer cells.


Deplete NAD in the cancer cells.

Inhibit the activity or synthesis of 5-lipoxygenase within the cancer cells.

Inhibit the activity of the proteasome complex.

Inhibit the activity or synthesis of fatty acid synthase.

Increase the leakage of cytochrome C and SMAC/DIABLO from the mitochondria.

Decrease the synthesis of peroxynitrite.

Increase the synthesis of TRAIL.

Decrease the activity or synthesis of Nuclear Factor-KappaBeta

Block egress of metastatic cells out of the bloodstream.

Block histamine synthesis in cancer cells.

Block the activity or synthesis of Cox-2.


Inhibit telomerase enzyme induction.

Decrease the activity or synthesis of ETS transcription proteins.

Increase the synthesis of EGR1 transcription proteins.

Increase the synthesis of ceramide in cancer cells.

Decrease the activity or synthesis of the enzyme CK2 (casein kinase 2).

Decrease tyrosine kinase activity (inhibit HER2, EGF and VEGF growth related hormones.


Inhibit the activity of NADH oxidase over expressed on the membranes of cancer cells.

[thefirstimmortal]

Comments?

David

[/sup]

I love the effort David. Once again, I would like to see the heavyweight weigh in on this. Maxwatt, Anthony?

[thefirstimmortal]

Hi TFE. I know that missminni has written a bit about vitamin E. Have you seen some research on tocotrienols? (From "Vitamin E and cancer: An insight into the anticancer activities of vitamin E isomers and analogs", PMID 18512238. Also see PMID 17628180. The more I read about the tocotrienol fraction of vitamin E, the more reasons I find to like it, and the more careful I am to have a better than 3:1 ratio of gamma tocopherol to alpha.

Current observations in the literature suggest that vitamin E may be a suitable candidate for the adjuvant treatment of cancer. Even though historically most research focused on alpha-tocopherol, more recent evidence suggests that the other isomers of vitamin E (beta-, gamma- and delta-tocopherols and alpha-, beta-, gamma- and delta-tocotrienols) differ in their proapoptotic potencies. [...] (i) no direct link exists between the antioxidant activity of each isomer/derivative and proapoptotic potency, (ii) tocotrienols are more effective proapoptotic agents than tocopherols, (iii) synthetic modifications of the naturally occurring compounds may improve their apoptotic potency and (iv) vitamin E isomers and derivatives regulate caspase-independent pathways of apoptosis. The latter combined with the evidence presented in this review regarding the additive or synergistic anticarcinogenic effects obtained when vitamin E analogs are used in combination with other cancer chemotherapeutic agents, supports further research to design the most promising vitamin E derivatives and clinically test them in adjuvant chemotherapeutic treatments.

Since cancer runs in my family, I added Jarrow TocoSorb to my list of anti-cancer supps. Curcumin is high on my list too; I fell prey to the LEF advertising juggernaut and spring for their bio-curcumin.

Stephen

Hi Stephen,
I have not added much to my research base on V-E. Dmitri posted and sent info on the possible negatives of V-E. V-E was part of my first round effort however, and on study I posted somewhere showed in combination with Cisplatin, it increased tumor shrinkage from 57% to 80%.

[missminni]

My Mom passed by all accounts in a peaceful manner, mostly due to the morphine she was on. Her death was expected, and of course I feel the loss, but there was an extra sense of a different kind of feeling. They had to arrange the funeral at 11 am this morning so that I could leave to attend my chemo treatment. They mentioned my Grandmother, who passed with stomach cancer, and there I was, smack dab in the middle of the red zone of my own death prognosis attending my Mothers funeral who passed away from cancer. There were my direct ascendants both passed away from cancer.

I don’t want to sound macabre but now every time I look in the bathroom mirror, I see Death, the Eternal Footman (looking quite proud), standing in the shadows behind me, holding my coat, snickering.

Snicker back and say sorry charlie, not this time.
The loss of your mom would of course affect you that way, how could it not, but don't fall prey to that way of thinking.
If there was a setback in the shrinkage of the tumor and/or not being able to hold down your vitamins as you mentioned in another thead,
attribute it to the stress of dealing with your mom's passing. Healthy people get sick when they deal with the passing of loved ones.
It's temporary. You'll make up for it. You have to believe in your recovery...belief is 90% of the cure. You have so many
people believing in you, I am sure we can hold you afloat until you get your confidence back.

As for death snickering in the shadows, I want to repeat a true story somebody I know experienced...
He was shot in the head at 17 years old and was in a coma for over a year...He said for the entire time he was in a coma
he saw death sitting on the edge of his bed, night and day just waiting to take him and he kept saying "No, I'm not going with you".

Long story short, he recovered. He had amnesia for a few months, but then his memory returned too.
Death is always in the shadows. Don't let him psyche you out.

[DaffyDuck]

Here is a recent article from Ohio State regarding the benefits of black raspberries with regards to cancer. It's worth a read and considering adding black raspberry powder to your regimen.

http://researchnews....e/berrygene.htm

[kismet]

I've just recently found out that Metformin has anti-cancer properties, I've seen it was already mentioned once but you said your doctor wouldn't prescribe it back then. I'm wondering if that has changed and Metformin could be synergistic with the rest of the supplements?

[SearchHorizon]

edit: post deleted

Edited by SearchHorizon, 28 August 2008 - 04:48 PM.

[maxwatt]

...
As for what I think on the emodin, the experts Maxwatt and Anthony live and breathe this issue. I would like to hear their opinions on this.

Small cell is what I have, I was and still run under the assumption that pure 98% res in the way to go. I certainly wouldn’t dismiss new evidence if it helped destroy more of the tumor.

Emodin does have anti-cancer properties. It is also toxic, more so at high doses. 50% resveratrol extracts contain anywhere from a bit under 5% emodin, to 10% or a little more. Most people get diarrhea from 50 mg of emodin, and it can be quite severe at 100 mg or more. I can say the experience is not pleasant. I get mild intestinal discomfort from 25 mg of emodin.

You could add a 50% resveratrol capsules to your regimen. Anthony knows the amount n his 50% capsules, but you can assume 4.5% until he tells you; Country Life I believe runs between 8 and 10%, but that's a guess. I would start with about 25 mg of emodin plus the resveratrol in the capsule, and increase the dose to se what I could tolerate, then cut back little, then stick with that.

Sorry for not responding sooner, but I've been traveling.

[Anthony_Loera]

Anthony knows the amount n his 50% capsules, but you can assume 4.5% until he tells you

Hi, it's 3%

Cheers
A

[davidd]

Anthony knows the amount n his 50% capsules, but you can assume 4.5% until he tells you

Hi, it's 3%

Cheers
A

What size are the pills? For example, if they are 200mg, then 3% is 6mg, so it would take about 4 pills to equal the 25mg that maxwatt mentioned as a starting dose.

maxwatt: What level would be toxic? Or would a person know they've reached that level when the negative gastrointestinal effects kick in? Partly asking for myself, as I am on about 120mg of emodin from my 600mg/day Country Life Plus (50% pure, 100 mg out of 200mg), if it does have 10% emodin. I haven't noticed any diarrhea yet.


Thanks,
David

[davidd]

Here is a recent article from Ohio State regarding the benefits of black raspberries with regards to cancer. It's worth a read and considering adding black raspberry powder to your regimen.

http://researchnews....e/berrygene.htm

I like this quote from the article:

"This suggests to us that a mixture of preventative agents, which berries provide, may more effectively prevent cancer than a single agent that targets only one or a few genes."

I can't believe I didn't think of black raspberries. We've got a bunch of them growing around our propery that the previous owner planted. I did a lot of research on them when we first moved in. There are lots of studies on the anti-cancer properites. I believe there are even studies where they are made into a paste and applied topically to oral cancer, showing some promise.

I *think* I remember reading that the black raspberries had to come in contact with the cancerous areas during the digestion process to be effective (so it works for colon, esophagus, etc.) This is from memory, however, so I could be wrong.

TheFirstImmortal: Has your cancer spread to the esophagus? I know you talked about your esophagus being constricted by the cancer, but I wasn't sure if you meant the lung cancer tumors/swelling did that or if it was actually in your esophagus.

David

Edited by davidd, 28 August 2008 - 11:13 PM.

[thefirstimmortal]

Here is a recent article from Ohio State regarding the benefits of black raspberries with regards to cancer. It's worth a read and considering adding black raspberry powder to your regimen.

http://researchnews....e/berrygene.htm

How do you think that would taste mixed with green tea?

[thefirstimmortal]

TheFirstImmortal: Has your cancer spread to the esophagus? I know you talked about your esophagus being constricted by the cancer, but I wasn't sure if you meant the lung cancer tumors/swelling did that or if it was actually in your esophagus.

David

Nope, it's the swelling. When it gets 10cm it starts crushing the esophagus by mechanical means.

[davidd]

TheFirstImmortal: Has your cancer spread to the esophagus? I know you talked about your esophagus being constricted by the cancer, but I wasn't sure if you meant the lung cancer tumors/swelling did that or if it was actually in your esophagus.

David

Nope, it's the swelling. When it gets 10cm it starts crushing the esophagus by mechanical means.

This is why I asked:

http://researchnews....ve/canberry.htm

...
"We then decided to take a food-based approach to cancer prevention and began testing the berries' ability to inhibit chemically-induced esophageal and colon cancer," Stoner said. "Sure enough, we found that freeze-dried berries were highly protective in the esophagus and colon. But we also found that they were ineffective in protecting against lung cancer.

"The protective compounds in berries may not be absorbed into the blood stream and delivered to the lungs in high enough amounts to be protective. We do believe that they protect the esophagus and colon because they are absorbed by these organs as the food moves through the digestive tract."
...

However, then there is this:

http://www.browncanc...ult.aspx?id=183



...
His lung-cancer research, given at an earlier meeting of the association, showed that a mixture of four berries — strawberries, blueberries, black raspberries and blackberries — reduced the incidence and number of lung tumors by 30 percent to 35 percent in mice exposed to cigarette smoke. He is planning human tests in the next two years.

His lung-cancer research, given at an earlier meeting of the association, showed that a mixture of four berries — strawberries, blueberries, black raspberries and blackberries — reduced the incidence and number of lung tumors by 30 percent to 35 percent in mice exposed to cigarette smoke. He is planning human tests in the next two years.
...

From the same university (University of Louisville), I found this (unrelated to the berries discussion above, except for the location:

http://www.uoflhealt...eries_spr04.pdf

They mention a new compound, called AGRO 100, that binds specifically to cancer cells. They mention lung cancer as one of the types they hope to test it on. This was in 2004. I can't find a lot of other information on the net, but it may be worth trying to contact the people involved in the studies.

And another unrelated bit of information:

http://www.medical-l...lung_cancer.htm

Discusses various "new" chemotherapy drugs for small cell lung cancer. Since it doesn't have a date stamped on it, I don't know what "new" really means. Might be something to discuss with doctors?


David

[thefirstimmortal]

Most herbal supplement treatment of cancer is highly speculative and experimental. Until long-term double placebo studies and more safety studies are done, no one can say for sure whether resveratrol or other alternative therapies will do any good.

Hmm, I tried to do a search for clinical trials testing the effectiveness of chemotherapy agents over the past decade did not find even one double-blind, placebo-controlled trial. The only such trials were those designed to study which supportive agents could help prevent or minimize chemotherapy associated nausea and vomiting.

[thefirstimmortal]

How can the cancer establishment get away with claiming that most herbal medicines (as well as other alternative therapies, for that matter) are “unproven” when the effectiveness of their own chemotherapy drugs are unsubstantiated by the very clinical trials they regard as standards?

[thefirstimmortal]

Many powerful economic forces, pharmaceutical drug companies, physicians’ trade groups, insurance companies, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and the National Institutes of Health (NIH), the latter two being taxpayer-funded organizations within the U.S. government, want health care to stay exactly the way it is because they’re thriving under it. The reason alternative cancer treatments are not yet mainstream has little to do with alleged therapeutic ineffectiveness and far more to do with political control over the therapy marketplace. Successful alternative approaches to cancer are a direct financial threat to this system. The politics of cancer have an overriding influence on the science of cancer and, ultimately, on what the public thinks about cancer treatment options.

Alternative approaches are also a serious intellectual threat to the belief systems of conventional medicine.

For all their crowing about science, most conventional doctors are highly unscientific in their practices.

[TianZi]

Regarding berries as a cancer preventive food, it would be helpful if the people touting them would state how many berries were consumed daily in the studies which found them to have a cancer preventive effect, and the average body weight of the test subjects (or better yet, the amount of berries (or each type of berry in studies using more than one) per kg. of body weight).

[missminni]

Many powerful economic forces, pharmaceutical drug companies, physicians’ trade groups, insurance companies, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and the National Institutes of Health (NIH), the latter two being taxpayer-funded organizations within the U.S. government, want health care to stay exactly the way it is because they’re thriving under it. The reason alternative cancer treatments are not yet mainstream has little to do with alleged therapeutic ineffectiveness and far more to do with political control over the therapy marketplace. Successful alternative approaches to cancer are a direct financial threat to this system. The politics of cancer have an overriding influence on the science of cancer and, ultimately, on what the public thinks about cancer treatment options.

Alternative approaches are also a serious intellectual threat to the belief systems of conventional medicine.

For all their crowing about science, most conventional doctors are highly unscientific in their practices.

It's a self serving industry. Chemo is big business. They don't want to lose their market share to a supplement they
can't control or make a profit from. When they can control it and figure a way to make a killing on it, they will promote it as the newest miracle drug.
Right now, they don't even want to hear about it. Doctors are basically sales reps for pharamceutical companies.
To quote Chris Rock "The money's in the medicine, not the cure".

[DukeNukem]

Potentially interesting:

Black Raspberries Slow Cancer By Altering Hundreds Of Genes
New research strongly suggests that a mix of preventative agents, such as those found in concentrated black raspberries, may more effectively inhibit cancer development than single agents aimed at shutting down a particular gene.
http://www.scienceda...80827163933.htm

[TianZi]

Again regarding the berries, I think it would be most helpful if those posting about them did the First Immortal the favor of giving enough information to be useful, as I expect his ability to perform individual research on each and every supplement / drug suggested in this thread has been compromised by his cancer.

In the article Duke linked, the following specific information is helpful:

“Freeze drying the berries concentrates these elements about ten times, giving us a power pack of chemoprevention agents that can influence the different signaling pathways that are deregulated in cancer,” he says.

To conduct this study, Stoner and his colleagues fed rats either a normal diet or a diet containing 5 percent black-raspberry powder."

By 5%, I assume that 5% of the total weight in food consumed per day by the rats was freeze dried black-rasberry powder.

I'm not sure what this translates to in terms of calculating 5% weight in grams of the total in grams consumed daily for a human of average weight consuming an average number of grams of food daily--I'm unable to find information regarding the average weight in grams of a 2,500 daily calorie diet. But some forum dweller here could provide that information.

Whatever that number may be, it seems it would have to be at least 10 times higher if the berries aren't freeze-dried.

[missminni]

Again regarding the berries, I think it would be most helpful if those posting about them did the First Immortal the favor of giving enough information to be useful, as I expect his ability to perform individual research on each and every supplement / drug suggested in this thread has been compromised by his cancer.

In the article Duke linked, the following specific information is helpful:

“Freeze drying the berries concentrates these elements about ten times, giving us a power pack of chemoprevention agents that can influence the different signaling pathways that are deregulated in cancer,” he says.

To conduct this study, Stoner and his colleagues fed rats either a normal diet or a diet containing 5 percent black-raspberry powder."

By 5%, I assume that 5% of the total weight in food consumed per day by the rats was freeze dried black-rasberry powder.

I'm not sure what this translates to in terms of calculating 5% weight in grams of the total in grams consumed daily for a human of average weight consuming an average number of grams of food daily--I'm unable to find information regarding the average weight in grams of a 2,500 daily calorie diet. But some forum dweller here could provide that information.

Whatever that number may be, it seems it would have to be at least 10 times higher if the berries aren't freeze-dried.

Sources for freeze dried black raspberry powder:

Nutrifruit.com has it - 5 oz $24.95

also,
Stokes Berry Farm
2822 Center Road, Wilmington, Ohio 45177
Telephone (937) 382-4004 Fax (937) 383-0317
They provide the freeze dried raspberries for the cancer research at Ohio State.

Freeze-dried black raspberry powder is available all year. Please call if you would like more information (937) 382-4004. At this time, we are not accepting internet orders.

[Karomesis]

William, I'm sorry I can't help you out with a kilo of res, I'm completely broke right now. But, I may be able to get you something better, the NCE(SRT2104) from Sirtris. I haven't had the chance to talk to Peter down there in a while but if I can corner him I'll get some and use it on my "lab rats" here's a link to it http://www.sirtrisph...candidates.html

also if you're still in radiation therapy you may want to consider using NtBHA as it has been shown to be radioprotective in rats at high doses




Department of Biochemistry, College of Natural Sciences and College of Medicine, Kyungpook National University, Taegu 702-701, Korea.

Exposure of cells to ionizing radiation leads to formation of reactive oxygen species (ROS) that are associated with radiation-induced cytotoxicity. Therefore, compounds that scavenge ROS may confer radioprotective effects. Recently, it has been shown that the decomposition product of the spin-trapping agent alpha-phenyl-N-t-butylnitrone (PBN), N-t-butyl hydroxylamine (NtBHA), mimics PBN and is much more potent in delaying ROS-associated senescence. We investigated the protective role of NtBHA against ionizing radiation in U937 cells and mice. Viability and cellular oxidative damage reflected by lipid peroxidation, oxidative DNA damage and protein oxidation were significantly lower in the cells treated with NtBHA when the cells were exposed to ionizing radiation. The modulation of cellular redox status was more pronounced in control cells compared with NtBHA-treated cells. The ionizing radiation-induced mitochondrial damage reflected by the altered mitochondrial permeability transition, the increase in the accumulation of ROS and the reduction of ATP production was significantly higher in control cells compared with NtBHA-treated cells. NtBHA administration before irradiation at 5 mg/kg daily for 2 weeks provided substantial protection against killing and oxidative damage to mice exposed to whole-body irradiation. These data indicate that NtBHA may have great application potential as a new class of in vivo, non-sulfur containing radiation protector.

[TianZi]

New Scientist, Aug, 27, 2008


Chronotherapists have found that side effects of specific drugs and radiotherapy can be minimized by administering them at defined times of the day, also taking into account individual patient circadian cycles.

Circadian rhythms affect the expression of almost every gene in our bodies, so it is not surprising that drugs are metabolised differently according to the time of day.


<h2 class="colspacer inline">Circadian rhythms boost cancer therapies</h2>

• 27 August 2008
• Linda Geddes
• Magazine issue 2671

YOU use a clock to decide when to get up and when to go to bed. Now it seems that timing is everything when it comes to taking cancer medication as well. The ability to pinpoint when chemo and radiotherapies will be least harmful, and most effective, should allow doctors to maximise tumour shrinkage with a minimum of side effects.

The idea of "chronotherapy" is not new - doctors have known for some time that the side effects of drugs such as oxaliplatin are less if patients are treated at night, rather than in the morning. But chronotherapy can't go mainsteam without large-scale studies on people. "There's enormous resistance from the medical community who say that these are only marginal effects," says Russell Foster, who studies circadian rhythms at the University of Oxford. The logistics of giving patients drugs at specific times of day has also put doctors .... [cut]

subscription required to read the rest

http://www.newscient...=mg19926713.200

FirstImmortal,

You could ask your doctor if he is familiar with this research, and whether the timing of your chemotherapy sessions and ingestion of medication should be scheduled accordingly.

Edited by TianZi, 31 August 2008 - 06:40 PM.

[thefirstimmortal]

Nutrifruit.com has it - 5 oz $24.95

In the link Missminni provided for nutrifruit.

Nutri-Fruit™ BLACK RASPBERRY provides an excellent source of the flavonoid rutin – a phenolic compound which metabolizes into quercetin. Over 75% of the anthocyanin contribution in black raspberries comes from rutin.

I believe rutin, anthocyanin are on my list to look into, and quercetin has been mentioned several times. Of course, I really need to check out Boswella before I go much further.

[thefirstimmortal]

William, I'm sorry I can't help you out with a kilo of res, I'm completely broke right now. But, I may be able to get you something better, the NCE(SRT2104) from Sirtris. I haven't had the chance to talk to Peter down there in a while but if I can corner him I'll get some and use it on my "lab rats" here's a link to it http://www.sirtrisph...candidates.html

I find the following quotes interesting;
SRT501: Sirtris’ proprietary formulation of resveratrol
SRT2104, a new chemical entity (NCE) that activates SIRT1 - 1,000 times more potent than resveratrol....

I'm interested Karomesis. I would like to have Maxwatt and Anthony weigh in on this.

[thefirstimmortal]

Anyone care to comment on this?

Berrie, berries, berries, ...the latest cure all

http://www.imminst.o...o...c=24059&hl=

[thefirstimmortal]

also if you're still in radiation therapy you may want to consider using NtBHA as it has been shown to be radioprotective in rats at high doses

I only had one radiation therapy sessoin for my bone cancer in my leg a long time ago, but I'm considering it for main mass if I can get it small enough. LifeMirage the advisor here takes it. Should we ask LifeMirage about it?

LifeMirage
Advisor
http://forum.lef.org...px?f=37&m=17726