460 replies to this topic

[thefirstimmortal]

Hmm, couldn't tell if you were for or against the berries.

Yet another berry concentrate shows anti-cancer properties.


http://www.imminst.o...o...3038&st=150

[missminni]

Nutrifruit.com has it - 5 oz $24.95

In the link Missminni provided for nutrifruit.

Nutri-Fruit™ BLACK RASPBERRY provides an excellent source of the flavonoid rutin – a phenolic compound which metabolizes into quercetin. Over 75% of the anthocyanin contribution in black raspberries comes from rutin.

I believe rutin, anthocyanin are on my list to look into, and quercetin has been mentioned several times. Of course, I really need to check out Boswella before I go much further.

It's time you got the stuff on your list. Why wait? Anthony has some available funds for you.

[krillin]

also if you're still in radiation therapy you may want to consider using NtBHA as it has been shown to be radioprotective in rats at high doses

I only had one radiation therapy sessoin for my bone cancer in my leg a long time ago, but I'm considering it for main mass if I can get it small enough. LifeMirage the advisor here takes it. Should we ask LifeMirage about it?

LifeMirage
Advisor
http://forum.lef.org...px?f=37&m=17726

LifeMirage was run out of town, and since then one or more of the people who used the account have been making viral attacks on the forum.

http://www.imminst.o...&...st&p=174066

[Anthony_Loera]

William, I'm sorry I can't help you out with a kilo of res, I'm completely broke right now. But, I may be able to get you something better, the NCE(SRT2104) from Sirtris. I haven't had the chance to talk to Peter down there in a while but if I can corner him I'll get some and use it on my "lab rats" here's a link to it http://www.sirtrisph...candidates.html

I find the following quotes interesting;
SRT501: Sirtris’ proprietary formulation of resveratrol
SRT2104, a new chemical entity (NCE) that activates SIRT1 - 1,000 times more potent than resveratrol....

I'm interested Karomesis. I would like to have Maxwatt and Anthony weigh in on this.

I believe in rats, when testing glucose... it took 5 times more regular resveratrol than this NCE to achieve the same effect.

So it may not be as strong in vivo... having said that, I am all for you getting better, but I am not sure it has ever been tested in humans for toxicity.

So... that's a tough decision to try it, only because of that factor... What do you think Max?

A

[maxwatt]

William, I'm sorry I can't help you out with a kilo of res, I'm completely broke right now. But, I may be able to get you something better, the NCE(SRT2104) from Sirtris. I haven't had the chance to talk to Peter down there in a while but if I can corner him I'll get some and use it on my "lab rats" here's a link to it http://www.sirtrisph...candidates.html

I find the following quotes interesting;
SRT501: Sirtris’ proprietary formulation of resveratrol
SRT2104, a new chemical entity (NCE) that activates SIRT1 - 1,000 times more potent than resveratrol....

I'm interested Karomesis. I would like to have Maxwatt and Anthony weigh in on this.

I believe in rats, when testing glucose... it took 5 times more regular resveratrol than this NCE to achieve the same effect.

So it may not be as strong in vivo... having said that, I am all for you getting better, but I am not sure it has ever been tested in humans for toxicity.

So... that's a tough decision to try it, only because of that factor... What do you think Max?

A

It's a gamble, less so when human toxicity testing has been done. Also, the NCE's were only more potent in activating Sirt1, but only about as effective as resveratrol with Sirt2 and Sirt3. The anti-cancer effect comes from inducing apoptosis in unhealthy cells, which may not be mediated by Sirt1. So while I do not know if the NCEs would be better than resveratrol against cancer, I think it not likely, and there are potential risks. I would not try them myself if I had cancer, unless I were using resveratrol and found it wasn't doing enough.

[davidd]

Nutrifruit.com has it - 5 oz $24.95

In the link Missminni provided for nutrifruit.

Nutri-Fruit™ BLACK RASPBERRY provides an excellent source of the flavonoid rutin – a phenolic compound which metabolizes into quercetin. Over 75% of the anthocyanin contribution in black raspberries comes from rutin.

I believe rutin, anthocyanin are on my list to look into, and quercetin has been mentioned several times. Of course, I really need to check out Boswella before I go much further.

Since I was one of the people who brought up quercetin and the studies showing it was theoretically good for fighting small cell lung cancer and since I'm more in the "pro-quercetin" camp...

Although the following is for colon cancer, it does bring up rutin vs quercetin bioavailability:

http://jn.nutrition....ull/136/11/2862

Quercetin, but Not Its Glycosidated Conjugate Rutin, Inhibits Azoxymethane-Induced Colorectal Carcinogenesis in F344 Rats

Abstract:

The effect of the flavonoid quercetin and its conjugate rutin was investigated on (biomarkers of) colorectal cancer (CRC). Male F344 rats (n = 42/group) were fed 0, 0.1, 1, or 10 g quercetin/kg diet or 40 g rutin/kg diet. Two wk after initial administration of experimental diets, rats were given 2 weekly subcutaneous injections with 15 mg/kg body wt azoxymethane (AOM). At wk 38 post-AOM, quercetin dose dependently (P < 0.05) decreased the tumor incidence, multiplicity, and size, whereas tumor incidences were comparable in control (50%) and rutin (45%) groups. The number of aberrant crypt foci (ACF) in unsectioned colons at wk 8 did not correlate with the tumor incidence at wk 38. Moreover, at wk 8 post-AOM, the number and multiplicity of ACF with or without accumulation of ß-catenin were not affected by the 10 g quercetin/kg diet. In contrast, another class of CRC-biomarkers, ß-catenin accumulated crypts, contained less ß-catenin than in controls (P < 0.05). After enzymatic deconjugation, the plasma concentration of 3'-O-methyl-quercetin and quercetin at wk 8 was inversely correlated with the tumor incidence at wk 38 (r = –0.95, P 0.05). Rats supplemented with 40 g rutin/kg diet had only 30% of the (3'-O-methyl-) quercetin concentration of 10 g quercetin/kg diet-fed rats (P < 0.001). In conclusion, quercetin, but not rutin, at a high dose reduced colorectal carcinogenesis in AOM-treated rats, which was not reflected by changes in ACF-parameters. The lack of protection by rutin is probably due to its low bioavailability.


I also read in another thread that you have taken bromelain in the past. I think it was to assist in digestion. The quercetin I take has bromelain in the same pill for that very reason. I mention this, because maybe less quercetin is needed when taken with bromelain or other things that increase digestion/bioavailability/etc.


Quick question... Do you have periodic blood tests done (or some other type of tests) to see if things are getting worse or better? I'm asking, because it might help in determining the effect of some of these supplements you might start taking.


David

[thefirstimmortal]

FirstImmortal,

You could ask your doctor if he is familiar with this research, and whether the timing of your chemotherapy sessions and ingestion of medication should be scheduled accordingly.

I appreciate the data, but I can assure you of 2 things. My current doctor isn't familiar with this research, and he will schedule my chemotheapy treatments according to whatever slot is open. I am however actively seeking his replacement.
Live Long and Well TianZi.

[thefirstimmortal]

I've just recently found out that Metformin has anti-cancer properties, I've seen it was already mentioned once but you said your doctor wouldn't prescribe it back then. I'm wondering if that has changed and Metformin could be synergistic with the rest of the supplements?

No change in doctor status yet Kismet. Should I be able to change or add a new one, I'll let everyone here know.

[thefirstimmortal]

also if you're still in radiation therapy you may want to consider using NtBHA as it has been shown to be radioprotective in rats at high doses

I only had one radiation therapy sessoin for my bone cancer in my leg a long time ago, but I'm considering it for main mass if I can get it small enough. LifeMirage the advisor here takes it. Should we ask LifeMirage about it?

LifeMirage
Advisor
http://forum.lef.org...px?f=37&m=17726

LifeMirage was run out of town, and since then one or more of the people who used the account have been making viral attacks on the forum.

http://www.imminst.o...&...st&p=174066

Whatever happened to xanadu? Xanadu Joined 21-Jul 2005 and had 1,929 Posts, but I couldn't access any info on a search. Was Xanadu sentenced to electronic death also? And if so, for what alleged crime?

Edited by thefirstimmortal, 01 September 2008 - 06:37 AM.

[maxwatt]

also if you're still in radiation therapy you may want to consider using NtBHA as it has been shown to be radioprotective in rats at high doses

I only had one radiation therapy sessoin for my bone cancer in my leg a long time ago, but I'm considering it for main mass if I can get it small enough. LifeMirage the advisor here takes it. Should we ask LifeMirage about it?

LifeMirage
Advisor
http://forum.lef.org...px?f=37&m=17726

LifeMirage was run out of town, and since then one or more of the people who used the account have been making viral attacks on the forum.

http://www.imminst.o...&...st&p=174066

Whatever happened to xanadu? Xanadu Joined 21-Jul 2005 and had 1,929 Posts, but I couldn't access any info on a search. Was Xanadu sentenced to electronic death also? And if so, for what alleged crime?

He annoyed a lot of people, myself included. Contrarian for the sake of argument without constructive discourse, like a classic troll, summarizes the complaint. It was decided to bar him from posting for a month. He came back briefly, but his feelings seemed to have been hurt and he has disappeared, or is posting under another alias. There was a thread entitled "Xanadu" in the members' forum last year.

WRT NtBHA and PBN: they seem to help protect cells against radiation. Won't they also help protect cancer cells?

Edited by maxwatt, 02 September 2008 - 01:49 AM.

[Mind]

Hmm, couldn't tell if you were for or against the berries.

I was just making the point that they all provide good health benefits (including anti-cancer properties), but that there is a trend lately for nutrition salespeople to market one or the other as a miracle cure/elixir.

[Anjela]

I suspect that using Resveratrol for cancer might be a political hot potato in the pharma community. After all the current chemo treatments and cancer pharmaceuticals generate $42 billion in business a year. I thought that might even be the reason that sirtris is pursuing its use for diabetes 2 instead. One wouldn't infringe on any major existing market that way. JMO

I can't tell you how pleased I was to see this statement here on this forum. It shows me that some of the people here are actually intellectual and wise. That combination turns me on and I hope to see more people using the rare combination in their efforts everyday. . It is absolutely crucial that we begin to utilize a critically reserved and almost paranoid sense of discernment when talking about any positive possibilities in the treating of life threatening disease and affliction. Furthermore to go the extra step and actually recognize the possibility of why the compound has been recently applied to other human ailments in our daily propoganda intake regimen, ie: diabetes 2, made me shout out loud a resounding "YES"! " By George I think shes got it!!" Missminni, please accept this "thumbs up" from me to you, for that unique and rare quality in thought. Woohoo!

[missminni]

I suspect that using Resveratrol for cancer might be a political hot potato in the pharma community. After all the current chemo treatments and cancer pharmaceuticals generate $42 billion in business a year. I thought that might even be the reason that sirtris is pursuing its use for diabetes 2 instead. One wouldn't infringe on any major existing market that way. JMO

I can't tell you how pleased I was to see this statement here on this forum. It shows me that some of the people here are actually intellectual and wise. That combination turns me on and I hope to see more people using the rare combination in their efforts everyday. . It is absolutely crucial that we begin to utilize a critically reserved and almost paranoid sense of discernment when talking about any positive possibilities in the treating of life threatening disease and affliction. Furthermore to go the extra step and actually recognize the possibility of why the compound has been recently applied to other human ailments in our daily propoganda intake regimen, ie: diabetes 2, made me shout out loud a resounding "YES"! " By George I think shes got it!!" Missminni, please accept this "thumbs up" from me to you, for that unique and rare quality in thought. Woohoo!

Wow, thanks Anjela. You made my day.
Intellectual and Wise! Nobody's ever described me as either of those things before. It's usually more like emotional and foolish.

I learned how powerful and self-serving drug companies are first hand 40 years ago working for a cancer research scientist at Brown University who was having great success with Vitamin E suppressing cancer in mice. I was shocked to learn how dependent medical schools are on drug companies funding, and that they only fund studies that will result in a drug they can make money with. Vitamins didn't come under that category.
The way I see it, medical students are basically trained by drug companies to become doctors who write prescriptions for their drugs. It's a win-win for pharmaceutical companies and a no win for us.

[thefirstimmortal]

It's time you got the stuff on your list. Why wait? Anthony has some available funds for you.

Before I add anything else Missminni, I would like to be able to start downing what I have. I should start being able to eat again in a few day. Today I was finally able to keep res tea down.

[thefirstimmortal]

It's a gamble, less so when human toxicity testing has been done. Also, the NCE's were only more potent in activating Sirt1, but only about as effective as resveratrol with Sirt2 and Sirt3. The anti-cancer effect comes from inducing apoptosis in unhealthy cells, which may not be mediated by Sirt1. So while I do not know if the NCEs would be better than resveratrol against cancer, I think it not likely, and there are potential risks. I would not try them myself if I had cancer, unless I were using resveratrol and found it wasn't doing enough.

I’m always hesitant about using anything potentially toxic.

[thefirstimmortal]

I believe in rats, when testing glucose... it took 5 times more regular resveratrol than this NCE to achieve the same effect.

So it may not be as strong in vivo... having said that, I am all for you getting better, but I am not sure it has ever been tested in humans for toxicity.

So... that's a tough decision to try it, only because of that factor... What do you think Max?

A

I want to thank you Anthony and Maxwatt for weighing in on this. And Karomesis, thank you for brining this substance to my attention. Anthonys quote "it took 5 times more regular resveratrol than this NCE to achieve the same effect" and the info you provided "1,000 times more potent than resveratrol...." is interesting enough so that I wouldn't discard this info. But until the toxic issue is explored, I would stay with regular res for now. Thank you for the offer, and of course, if this deal turns south, maybe we will try it.

[dunno]

Hi thefirstimmortal,

Your update back in the beginning of August stated that your tumor is about 11 (cm?). Did that get removed? If not, how big is it now with the supplements you're taking?

Hope everything works out for you!

[AgeVivo]

basic truth to keep a good jugement in the middle of so many advertized supplements: caloric restriction (especially before chemo), no white egg (methionine=fuel for cancer), not much proteins (our diet tend to be too high in protein): mostly fruits and vegetables. Water, rest, discussions. And one apple a day (kercetin) keeps the doctor away ;-)

[thefirstimmortal]

Hi thefirstimmortal,

Your update back in the beginning of August stated that your tumor is about 11 (cm?). Did that get removed? If not, how big is it now with the supplements you're taking?

Hope everything works out for you!

No it did not get removed Dunno. I don't know what size it is, we'll know in a couple of weeks after the CT scan. And thank you, hopefully it will.

[Luna]

Hey,
First time I hear about all of this.

Good luck thefirstimmortal! what size was it last time you checked (and when was it?).
I read briefly the thread, must admit not all of it, how does the special treatment progress? any improvement with the cancer?

How are you feeling yourself?
And for all those who are helping thefirstimmortal, by information and by medicine/money, very good job!

[zawy]

• Everyone quoting previous posts makes the threads hard to read and scan. Our memories and ability to place things in context should be greater than our ability to scan and scroll through 3 times more text.
• Strange no one mentioned heavy smoking in his prior years as the possible cause, although stress like prison is often the final trigger.
• 15 g/day of a good fat should be considered closer to normal than high dose, which would help avoid carbs and protein as others indicated as dangerous. I really only know that sugars are dangerous. But if we're going to add carbs and protien to a list of don'ts, then i can humorously add that bad fats have a strong correlation with cancer at least over the long term, so we would be left with just supplements and fish oil as food for during cancer.
• i like the idea of dried berry skins and mushrooms for cancer to avoid calories with max nutrition. The skin from purple corn in peru probably has more antioxidants per calorie that anything else. Very cheap to grow compared to berries. I suppose the intense UV in the inca valley is why the corn kernal skin is so dark and thick. Anyone looking for a high-level business venture could start there. I wonder if there are also berries at high altitude..... another "glacier water" theory.
• I disagree with the newcomer that comments need to be kept sweet and free of constructive criticism.
• I wish someone had said my pancreatic cancer uncle needed 10 g RESV instead of 1 g when i posted several times. I see a good protocol for cancer at the beginning of this thread. I would add curcumin to the bottom and increase the RESV to tolerance as others suggested. A mixture of the ascorbate ions should be used for vitamin C for taste, acid, and sodium reasons: magnesium, sodium, hydrogen, and calcium are the counterparts that i know of. Calcium and sodium forms are not very tasty. Acid form causes more diarhea and causes temporary paleness and bags under my eyes at 10 g/day. Maybe equal parts all at 10 g/d would be ideal.
• LEF violated its own contract with early internet affiliates where they were supposed to always give a commission from members that the affiliates generated. So i wouldn't expect LEF to do anything different from any other corporation, including pharmaceuticals. They informally "settled" with me for about $4,000 whereas they probably owed $30,000. But the slickness of their magazine and "everything does everything" is what got me turned off.
• That's interesting that consuming an acid like vinegar causes alkalinity.
• Hopefully, not requoting 20 posters made this easier to read and you didn't have any trouble following context.

[zawy]

To correct other statements: motorcycles are about 9 times more dangerous per mile driven than cars.

200 ug/L is not the peak for vit C in blood, but the baseline low. Above this level, the kidneys are not as good at recycling. 6 hours after a 1,000 mg dose, it's still 4 times higher, 1,000 ug/L. This does not mean most of it comes out utilized in the urine because it can be used quickly by the body, fixing deficits from the rest of the day. The average mammal produces 400 mg/hour per 70kg. Maybe 200 mg/hr is best for humans, although guinea pigs and primates require 100 mg/hr per 70kg for best health as measured in labs and required by zoos. Enzymes are produce in people taking high doses, helping them to use it better. This causes a deficit if they skip a day or two, making one more susceptible to a cold. All this has been known since the 1970's and the more important points i haven't typed were known before 1970. I would not assume resveratrol will have a more knowledge-based future as far as the public is concerned. Even the best here do not know or are not correcting erroneous statements being made about vitamin C. Maybe someday something like a semantic web will help correct our errors in being able to find the right information.

I prefer to sweat out 2 pounds of water before drinking a liter of light juice with 3,000 mg vitamin C, so hopefully cells are pulling a lot in before it can go out the urine.

[thefirstimmortal]

Hey,
First time I hear about all of this.

Good luck thefirstimmortal! what size was it last time you checked (and when was it?).
I read briefly the thread, must admit not all of it, how does the special treatment progress? any improvement with the cancer?

How are you feeling yourself?
And for all those who are helping thefirstimmortal, by information and by medicine/money, very good job!

Thank You Winterbreeze. It was 11.4 the last Ct scan on July 3rd. We have some shrinkage, we find out soon just how much.
As for how I'm feeling, I've felt better. On the otherr hand, I've felt worse too

[hamishm00]

This in an amazing story, and a fabulous thread.

This is worthy of Oprah. Anyone tried her?

[hamishm00]

Hey William, just out of interest - are you on high dose melatonin?

Have you considered taking it during the day as well? Trials with Chemo patients have been very encouraging.

[thefirstimmortal]

Hey William, just out of interest - are you on high dose melatonin?

Have you considered taking it during the day as well? Trials with Chemo patients have been very encouraging.

Melatonin on paper looks wonderful, but I'm highly sensitive to it and a mere 3g dose puts me out like a light and you need 20g to really fight cancer. A dose that would put me in a deep funk. I do have a bottle for emergency sleep purposes, but I have to skip this as a therapy.

[thefirstimmortal]

Nutrifruit.com has it - 5 oz $24.95

In the link Missminni provided for nutrifruit.

Nutri-Fruit™ BLACK RASPBERRY provides an excellent source of the flavonoid rutin – a phenolic compound which metabolizes into quercetin. Over 75% of the anthocyanin contribution in black raspberries comes from rutin.

I believe rutin, anthocyanin are on my list to look into, and quercetin has been mentioned several times. Of course, I really need to check out Boswella before I go much further.

It's time you got the stuff on your list. Why wait? Anthony has some available funds for you.

Ahh, found it Missminni. I just got a big batch of quercetin, should I still consider Nutri-Fruit™ BLACK RASPBERRY?

[hamishm00]

I have found that high dose melatonin doesn't really make any difference for me - i.e. it's not like a sedative, the more you take doesn't necessarily mean the more sleepy you feel.

Have you tried taking a 20-30 mg dose? It's worth a shot imo, but obviously not if it's detrimental to your wellbeing.

[thefirstimmortal]

I have found that high dose melatonin doesn't really make any difference for me - i.e. it's not like a sedative, the more you take doesn't necessarily mean the more sleepy you feel.

Have you tried taking a 20-30 mg dose?

Umm, no. 3mg puts me down, I'm not really up for finding out what a 30mg dose will do just yet. Maybe in the future
Live Long and Well

[thefirstimmortal]

POSTED UNDER THREAT OF CENSORSHIP

Wednesday at 2pm I have an appointment for the results of my CT scan and for Chemo. I’m calling in the morning to tell them my physical presence won’t be required because I’m skipping the chemo, and although I would like to see the actual CT results, they can send that to me in disc format and I’ll look at that myself. I would like to have a discussion with Dr, Kurt at the scheduled time however. All I really need is the number, how big is that tumor?

I can feel it, it’s still there but I can’t get a good read on it because my stomach has shrunk and in order to get good estimation I would have to eat enough to compress it. That it is that small that I would have to do that indicates to me that it’s down more than the 15% that he said he expected. According to him, the 11.4cm tumor should be 9.12cm to 9.12cm, and he would be excited to see it at 8.55cm. The best he’s heard of would be a 50% reduction that would leave it at 5.7cm. My best guess right now is that it is 5cm, that’s my call.

A 5cm tumor, while outside the norm for shrinkage, is on one hand a cause for celebration, but there’s also reason for concern. It took 40 days for a one cm to blow up to 11.4cm, and the doubling time always increases with each new growth. We are 40 days away from the end of the deathwatch thread.

The only difference between now and May 21st is that I have a war chest of vitamins to fight this, so if I cross that line at all, it’s going to be clear why I crossed it.

I am not currently sick as compared with the 21 days of not eating and being, well, sick. But I am not well either. I have little energy. My head is cloudy much of the time. I move and think at a snails pace, my posting and research is way down, my sleep hours are way up. That’s all I got 4 now.
Live Long and Well

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