159 replies to this topic

[thefirstimmortal]

You are all invited to attend services for William O’Rights.
Location: DEATHWATCH Thread.
Time: Shortly after Midnight, early Nov. 1st.
Refreshments: Meatloaf will be served; you will have to bring your own wine.
Host: Rev. William Constitution O’Rights.

The darkest night ain't black enough to keep the morning light from shining,
The highest wall ain't tall enough to keep the smallest man from climbing,
The more that you resist the tide, The more it pulls you in, The more you hang on for your life…

Attached Files

•  House_Pics__The_Cave__Diningroom_011.jpeg   183.83KB   1 downloads

Edited by thefirstimmortal, 31 October 2008 - 09:44 AM.

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31120
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 20:09:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: William O'Rights <thefirstimmortal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Thank You Mr. & Mrs. Paul Hagen

Dear Mr. & Mrs. Paul Hagen,

Please accept my heartfelt thanks for your donations. Thank you for your
thoughtfulness and for believing in this cause enough to donate money. You have
no idea how much it means to me.
Live Long and Well
Bill OaC Rights

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31123
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 22:00:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: david pizer <pizerdavid@yahoo.com>
Subject: update on Mr. O'Rights fund


A few more thousand dollars has come in on the fund to try to help William
O'Rights. I don't have the balance in front of me as I write here from home,
but I think it is around $12,000 or $13,000. We are getting near the half way
mark.


I think it is amazing that so many cryonicists have been willing to help out,
especially in these troubling times.


I think that we have gotten this far speaks a lot for the quality and compassion
of the people who call themselves cryonicists. And, of which I have been proud
to been a part of this group for a very long time.


Now is the time for anyone who has been thinking about sending in a donation but
just hasn't gotten around to doing it yet to take action. You can go to the
Venturist's web site and click on buttons to send or mail a check.

Mail check to:
The Venturists
C/O Creekside Lodge
11255 State Route 69
Mayer Arizona 86333

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31131
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 01:03:32 -0800 (PST)
From: William O'Rights <thefirstimmortal@yahoo.com>
Subject: =?utf-8?B?SeKAmW0gU3RpbGwgQWxpdmU=?=


I think many cancer patients are harmed by gloomy prognoses. IaC ve seen people
who were told they had about six months to live, and you know, in 6 months, they
died! It isnaC t good to blindly accept the doctoraC s prognosis, people who do
that frame their life around the time they expect to die. After all, just
because doctors predict something doesnaC t make it so. Yet some cancer patients
can take a prognosis and turn it into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Please check out my video post at Immortality Institute in the thread
DEATH WATCH FOR THEFIRSTIMMORTAL, DEADLINE, NOVEMBER 1ST...
Post 62-65.
My Post

http://www.imminst.o...&...st&p=274213
Full Thread
http://www.imminst.o...o...=23595&st=0

Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.o...e.cgi?msg=31131

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31133
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 12:57:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Shannon <shannonvyff@yahoo.com>
Subject: Bridecicle & William O'Rights


Yeah, there were many things I didn't like about Bridecicle Julian (good
additional points :-) ), and yes Kennita I also found it humorous ;-)


William O'Rights--your post at ImmInst is inspirational.
http://www.imminst.o...&...st&p=274213

Keep on fighting, you are close to beating it!



Anyone that has not yet donated to the Venturist Compassionate Care fund for
William O'Rights can do so here: http://www.quantium.....com/venturist/


Also, Immortality Institute has been running a fund that you can donate to help
with William's costs for treating his cancer:
http://www.imminst.o...showtopic=24004


You can see that recently 600 dollars from that fund went to purchase
supplements for William from Life Extension Foundation :-). If you donate to
it, please put in the notes if you want your donation to be used for
supplements. So far there has been success with William's arsenal of
supplements against his cancer :-), we all hope that it continues.

Thank You, Shannon Vyff

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31136
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 06:36:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Julian Conrad <conrad_julian@yahoo.com>
Subject: Jackson Zinn enters cryostasis.



http://www.recordnet...318/-1/A_NEWS05

Attorney's final wish: to chill out
By Michael Fitzgerald
Record Columnist
November 05, 2008 6:00 AM

Jackson Zinn, a Stockton attorney, died on Monday. In
accordance with his wishes, he is to be frozen in a
giant Thermos outside Detroit.

Zinn, 65, was a cryonicist. He believed his corpse
could be preserved until the day medical science might
revive it.

"He's a real true believer," said Zinn's colleague,
Nolan Stringfield.

Stringfield, to whom Zinn gave power of attorney, took
Zinn off life support when doctors at Dameron Hospital
concluded Zinn had no chance of recovery.

Following Zinn's wishes, Wallace-Martin Funeral Home
special-ordered a casket with zinc insulation and
leak-proof silicon seals.

"In his case, we rushed it," funeral director Matt
Bryant said.

Time was of the essence, because better preservation
translates into likelier revival. Or so cryonicists
believe.

Four volunteers from the Bay Area cryonic community
packed Zinn's body bag with ice at the funeral home -
a procedure no one at Wallace-Martin had seen.

"I can tell you that in our line of work, it's not up
to us to judge anyone," Bryant said. "We respect and
honor the wishes of the family."

The volunteers injected Zinn with a drug to prevent
blood clots, said Ben Best, president and CEO of
Michigan's Cryonics Institute. They also performed
chest compressions. Compressions circulate blood to
better cool it.

"I think they may have put some bleach in, too," Best
said.

Bleach fights mold. Zinn had contracted a bacterial
infection.

Placed in a shipping container, Zinn's iced casket was
flown cargo out of San Francisco International and
transported to the Cryonics Institute in suburban
Detroit.

Zinn's original wishes called for "neuroseparation" -
for his head to be surgically removed and his body
discarded. Future science that could revive him could
grow him a new body, he reasoned.

Zinn originally planned neuroseparation at Alcor Life
Extension Society of Scottsdale, Ariz. Baseball legend
Ted Williams' head is in cryostasis at Alcor.

But Zinn instead opted for Cryonics Institute. The
institute, which operates under different state
regulations, does not offer neuroseparation.

Cryo-technicians will replace Zinn's blood with
"vitrification solution," an antifreeze, to prevent
cellular ice damage. They will gradually chill his
corpse to 321 degrees below zero.

Zinn will be transferred to a cylindrical steel tank
"like big Thermos bottles" and frozen in liquid
nitrogen. About 90 people are thus maintained at the
institute.

"I think people preserved in good condition today,
we'll be able to bring them back in 50 to 100 years,"
Best opined. "That's my guess." But, "there's no
guarantees."

Zinn once said that if revived, he will go on the
lecture circuit.

Contact columnist Michael Fitzgerald at (209) 546-8270
or michaelf@recordnet.com.

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31137
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 10:25:57 -0500
From: benbest@interlog.com
Subject: Cryonics Institute's 91st Patient

The Cryonics Institute's 91st patient
is H. Jackson (Jack) Zinn, a cryonicist
with a long history of cryonics activism
which has involved the American Cryonics
Society, Trans Time, Alcor and most recently
he joined the Cryonics Institute. On Tuesday
he was perfused and placed in CI's cooling
box where he will remain until he is cold
enough to be transferred to liquid nitrogen.
A detailed case report will be published
on the CI website.

An announcement publicizing Jack's
cryopreservation appeared today in
THE RECORD -- a newspaper local to the
Stockton, San Joaquin, Calaveras County
area of California:

http://tinyurl.com/6d587s
Attorney's final wish: to chill out

Anyone who can contribute personal
experiences or historical descriptions of
Jack Zinn's activism in cryonics is
invited to send them to me or to CI. Jack
may be most recently remembered for the
"High Rollers" conferences that he held
in Laughlin, Nevada in the late 1990s

http://www.cryonet.o...p.cgi?msg=10694

http://www.benbest.c...l/laughlin.html

-- Ben Best, President, Cryonics Institute

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31120
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 20:09:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: William O'Rights <thefirstimmortal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Thank You Mr. & Mrs. Paul Hagen

Dear Mr. & Mrs. Paul Hagen,

Please accept my heartfelt thanks for your donations. Thank you for your
thoughtfulness and for believing in this cause enough to donate money. You have
no idea how much it means to me.
Live Long and Well
Bill OaC Rights

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31160
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 12:47:31 -0500
From: benbest@interlog.com
Subject: Re: Cryonics Institute's 91st Patient

As was mentioned in CryoMessage 31137, the
Cryonics Institute's 91st patient was Jack Zinn,
a man with a long history in cryonics.

http://www.cryonet.o...p.cgi?msg=31137

The case report for the 91st patient is now
on the CI website:

http://www.cryonics....ports/CI91.html

This was one of the most complicated cases that
we have ever had since my becoming CI President in 2003.

-- Ben Best

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31162
From: RudiHoffman@aol.com
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 10:09:24 EST
Subject: Response to Jack Zinn's cryonics protocols

Hello, Fellow Cryoneters,

This is Rudi Hoffman writing from Florida. This posting is about the

cryonic suspension of long term cryonics activist Jack Zinn. If you are
serious
about your cryonic arrangements, I encourage you to read Ben's report on this
suspension at this link:


http://www.cryonics....ports/CI91.html

I am tremendously impressed with Ben Best and his detail oriented and
thorough reporting on this very important and public case.

What remains astounding to me is how difficult it is for even a highly
educated, articulate, credible, reasonably wealthy cryonics activist to have

optimal deanimation conditions in the current state of medicine and society
today.


Reading the report, it occurs to me that even I have much of the overly
sanguine, "well, it will all work out well at the right time" attitude that I

find is endemic to even fully signed and funded cryonicists. Smart people who
ought to know better. But we all have a tendency to think we are slightly
above the norm, that logistics and people problems may not apply to us.

Reading this report may dissuade you of a bit of this snobbery.

Given concerns against legal liability, medical "ethics" review boards and
groups who may find cryonics unnacceptable, possible transmittable diseases

that make patient handling problematic, logistics problems that are difficult
if
not intractible...the list goes on... and the question we should all be
asking ourselves is

"HOW THE HECK CAN I GET A CRYOSUSPENSION UNDER OPTIMAL CONDITIONS?"

Do any of the rest of you find it is shocking and embarrassing to find that
you/we/I occasionally fall into the same mental traps and lazy, inprecise
thinking we may denounce in others?

Reading the somewhat lengthy but highly detailed report of the suspension

process of Jack Zinn that Ben Best has provided, I realize that I need to do a
better job of preparing my friends and family...most specifically my wife and
sister...to handle issues that may come up during a suspension.

And, it brings a new sense of urgency to what Dave Pizer and the Venturists
(sounds like a rock band?) and some other forward thinking people are trying
to do about a community of cryonicists.

And, if I may be permitted one last, and arguably commercial, relevant
point, it makes sense to overfund...ideally dramatically overfund...your

suspension. I have 2.3 million dollars of life insurance on me. And,
regretfully, it
is not because I am wealthy. It is because I place a high value on both

taking care of my wife and taking care of my life, and this amount of coverage
will do this.

May I close with a quote from Ben Best regarding the funding for Jack Zinn's
suspension protocols? Ben Best and a host of others obviously have expended
tremendous...no...call it EPIC efforts on behalf of the hoped for future of
Jack Zinn. And they were able to do so, in part, because of wise overfunding
of life insurance which Jack had put in place for his suspension.

Quote from Ben Best follows:

The patient was overfunded by insurance policies above the minimum

cryopreservation fee, so I felt that I had some leeway to incur extra expenses.
(The
patient had not been paying his premiums recently, but there was enough cash
value in the policies that the premiums were covered.) I cannot say that I
could have made these efforts on behalf of CI Members who fund at the bare

minimum. I may not even have been able to change funeral directors, because the
Inman funeral director would have been much less expensive. CI Members are

advised to fund above the minimum for this and other reasons (such as protection
against future uncertainties, and access to future services which may be
available at extra cost).
Yours for Centuries,
Rudi

Rudi Richard Hoffman CFP CLU ChFC

Board Member Financial Planning Association fpafla.com
Board Member Salvation Army salvationarmy.org
Member Alcor Life Extension Foundation alcor.org
Certified Financial Planner™ CFP Board of Standards
Member Libertarian Party libertarianparty.org
Member National Rifle Association nra.org
Member World Transhumanist Association http://transhumanism.org/
World's Leading Cryonics Insurance Provider rudihoffman.com

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31164
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:36:45 -0500
From: "Charles Platt" <other@platt.us>
Subject: financial stability

Since financial stability, on a national or global level, is important
to cryonics generally and to the members of any organization that
invests a portion of patient funding, readers of Cryonet may be
interested in this citizen initiative:

http://www.breakthebailout.com

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31167
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 08:36:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Julian Conrad <conrad_julian@yahoo.com>
Subject: "Eleventh Hour" cryonics episode online

You have to look for the link that plays the video in
your browser if you don't want to download the
website's special player:

http://www.ninjavideo.net/video/13726

It's funny how the show's anti-cryonics villain
sounded more focussed and philosophical than the
seemingly normal cryonicists, especially the
terminally ill man with a pregnant wife who signed up
to be frozen because he wanted a chance to get to know
his child some day even if he couldn't be around to
see him grow up. (Hopefully the kid won't have to
visit him as a "dadsicle"!)

They're almost the exact opposite of the odd,
obsessional, often child-free people I've met or read
about in cryonics, where at least one cryonicist has
described himself as "ruthless monster." You usually
don't hear people in that crowd talking about being
frozen for socially acceptable, altruistic reasons.

Regards,

Julian

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31190
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 00:21:55 -0500
From: benbest@interlog.com
Subject: Cryonics trading and promotion

Speaking of cryonics community trading,
the Cryonics Institute now offers
bumper stickers, shirts and
other items based on slogans suggested
voted-upon by CI Members. They available
at CafePress:

http://www.cafepress.../ShopCI/6193808

http://www.cafepress.../ShopCI/6206857

http://www.cafepress.../ShopCI/6215732

These items are a great way to promote
cryonics with very little effort. And
they make great Christmas gifts, in my
biased opinion.

If you want to buy shirts or other items with
cryonics/life-extension related slogans or sayings
other than the ones used, let me know.

-- Ben Best

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31222
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 08:28:40 -0800 (PST)
From: david pizer <pizerdavid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Non-Profit account verification


A few days ago we learned that our Google Donation Button that is on the
Venturist web site was put on hold while Google needed to confirm that the
Venturists are a 501c3 status. We sent them the info and this morning I
received the below message that all is again OK. So those of you who want to
use an electronic means of sending in a donation (perhaps to help Bill O'Rights)
please give it a try and let me know. I will then check in a few days to see
that it came through OK.

Thanks to Mark Plus for getting this done so quick.

David

MESSAGE GROM GOOGLE BELOW =========


--- On Wed, 12/3/08, Google Checkout Team <checkout-nonprofit@google.com> wrote:

> From: Google Checkout Team <checkout-nonprofit@google.com>
> Subject: Re: Non-Profit account verification
> To: "David Pizer" <societyforventurism@gmail.com>
> Cc: pizerdavid@yahoo.com
> Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 4:56 AM
> Hello David,

> Thank you for following up with your non-profit
> verification documentation.

> Sincerely,
>
> Raja
> The Google Checkout Team

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31229
From: "Chris Manning" <chauncy@westnet.com.au>
Subject: How is Mr O'Rights?
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 22:14:01 +1100


We haven't had an update for some time on the condition of William O'Rights.
Could we have one please?


Also, how much is in his cryopreservation fund? Is it earning interest? Is the
money safe (as safe as it can be in these uncertain economic times)?

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31236
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 12:42:05 -0800 (PST)
From: david pizer <pizerdavid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Regarding O'Rights Fund


Chris Manning asks: "We haven't had an update for some time on the condition of
William O'Rights. Could we have one please? Also, how much is in his
cryopreservation fund? Is it earning interest? Is the money safe (as safe as it
can be in these uncertain economic times)?"

David's Reply:


1. William reports on his condition almost every day on the Immortality
Institute's forum.


2. Mike Perry is trying to get in touch with William to discuss current issues
and Mike reports he can not get in touch with of him.


3. There is about $13,000 in his fund. It is in a bank account that has FDIC
insurance. It does draw small amount of interest. Even a small amount of
interest is better then the big losses that many people have been taking who
have put their money in other types of investment accounts.


I guess one could say that staying even in these times for an investor is doing
pretty good. I am a business consultant for SCORE and I see many business
owners who come to me for advice who are doing a lot worse then breaking even
right now.

Thanks for the questions.


Anyone knowing how to get in touch with O'Rights by phone please contact Mike
Perry at mike@alcor.org

David

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31237
From: "Jens Rabis" <diefreieagentur@t-online.de>
References: <20081206100002.50684.qmail@rho.pair.com>
Subject: AW: CryoNet #31234 - #31236
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 14:27:10 +0100

Hello Denis,

100% money safety for William O'Rights?
I think he needs a credit. Credit to pay off donors, even if he is already
"dead" is.
Illness stories do not impress me. A beloved a mine person, he is on living
body rotten (breast cancer).
If more and more people to Cryonic believe, we need financial and mental
hardness.
I am thinking not(!) to live, but now frozen people. They are the weakest
and hope that we work well with money.

You've ignored me Denis, but I do not you ignore * smile *.

*******

100% Geld-Sicherheit fur William O'Rights?
Ich denke, er braucht einen Credit. Den Credit zahlen Spender ab, auch wenn
er schon tot ist.
Krankheitsgeschichten beeindrucken mich nicht. Eine geliebte Person von mir,
ist am lebendigen Leibe an Brustkrebs verfault.
Wenn immer mehr Menschen an Cryonic glauben, wir Geld und mentale Harte
immer wichtiger. Dabei denke ich nicht vor allem an die Lebenden, sondern an
die nachhaltige Aufbewahrung der Menschen, die schon eingefroren sind.
Die sind die Schwachsten und hoffen, dass wir mit Geld gut umgehen.
Du hast mich ignoriert Denis, aber ich ignoriere dich nicht *smile*.


Best greetings
Jens Rabis

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31239
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 17:40:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Shannon <shannonvyff@yahoo.com>
Subject: William O'Rights

--0-412591993-1228614017=:25495


The latest update today, is not looking good--I've been hoping (and still do)
that he'll be able to avoid hospice:

http://www.imminst.o...o...0&start=210

Shannon

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31242
From: "Jens Rabis" <diefreieagentur@t-online.de>
References: <20081207100001.73552.qmail@rho.pair.com>
Subject: AW: CryoNet #31237 - #31239
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 10:48:48 +0100

Denis quickly,

it is about life and death.
How much money is missing William O'Rights? Without compassion from a
Cryonic Institute! No price exceptions, no begging, no mental extortion with
illness stories. So the entire sum.
An institute would also freeze his head? He wants freeze the head ... in an
emergency, if the cheaper!?
I refuse to read his story, i wish that the frozen people can peacefully
sleep.

Perhaps more people donating ... from anger about me. No problem. The future
will show, which way is better for the defense in the Dewars.
And then asked her ... whether someone gives immediately credit ... when a
donor or donars several guarantees (for example long-term leases real estate
or gold). So that the lender, can hope for a long-term repayment.
You understand? Questions?


***************************************************

Tempo Denis,

es geht um Leben und Tod.
Wie viel Geld fehlt William O'Rights? Ohne Mitleid von einem
Cryonic-Institut! Keine Preis-Ausnahmen, Kein Betteln, kein mentales
Erpressen mit Krankheitsgeschichten. Also die komplette Summe.
Wurde ein Institut auch nur seinen Kopf einfrieren? Will er das im Notfall,
wenn es billiger ist?
Ich weigere mich seine Geschichte zu lesen, ich will dass die eingefrorenen
Menschen ruhig schlafen konnen.

Vielleicht spenden mehr Menschen aus Wut uber mich. Kein Problem. Die
Zukunft wird zeigen, welcher Weg besser ist, fur die Schwachen in den
Dewars.
Und dann fragt ihr, ob jemand Sofort-Credit gibt, wenn Spender Sicherheiten
bieten (z.Bsp. langfristig vermietete Immobilien oder Gold). So dass der
Kreditgeber, auf eine langfristige Ruckzahlung hoffen kann.
Alles verstanden? Fragen?

Best Greetings Jens Rabis

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31247
From: RAMole@aol.com
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 22:58:49 EST
Subject: Bill O' Rights -- a long shot but a chance

I have a suggestion for the Bill O' Rights situation. It may seem harsh but
it is logical, and I'd use it myself if I were in this situation.

It appears Mr. O'Rights is nearing the end, and there is only $13,000 in his
fund, whereas $28,000+ is needed for a CI suspension. If it becomes clear

that no more will come in in time, and if he is within hours of death, then his
representative should gamble.

For convenience let us suppose he has half enough. So his representative

goes to Las Vegas and puts the full sum on the red on a roulette table. The bet
is double-or-nothing. Red, he's preserved, black he is permanently dead.

It seems an awful thing to do, but consider the alternative: He dies with
half the needed funds and is not preserved, so he is permanently dead, 100%
probability. The money remains in his account does him no good at all. By

gambling he has a 50-50 chance. And cryonics itself is a bet on future
technology,
and no one knows whether any of us will win. We all place our bets and hope.

If he decides to go with this he should make it clear to anyone who might
possibly come up with the extra money required, so they make it clear whether
they will or not. It would be terrible if his representative bet $14,000 and
lost it, and an hour later a contribution of $14,000 arrived. So a potential
contributor should not wait until the last minute.

I don't like to write this. We all wish he had the full needed amount. We
all wish he could just be cured. But he can't be cured and the money isn't
there. And if the idea is not broached now it will be too late.

I hope others will discuss this plan. I hate to suggest it alone.

Alan Mole
(Disclosure: I am a CI Director, which might in some way bias me, and
readers should consider this in pondering the idea.)

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31248
From: "Chris Manning" <chauncy@westnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Bill O' Rights -- a long shot but a chance
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 22:26:58 +1100

An interesting idea.

Presumably it would need the consent of the people who donated the money
(which includes myself) as well as Mr O'Rights himself.

I'm not sure whether I support the idea, but I will think about it.

Regarding my own donation, I have indicated that if it can't be spent on Mr
O'Rights then I want it applied to Marce Johnson. That would not be possible
if it were gambled and lost.

It is indeed a logical idea, as was my suggestion a few months ago that a
raffle be held, which went down like a lead balloon.

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31254
From: Mark Plus <markplus@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Bill O' Rights -- a long shot but a chance
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:55:06 -0800

Alan Mole writes:


>For convenience let us suppose he [William O'Rights] has half enough. So his
representative goes to Las Vegas and puts the full sum on the red on a roulette
table. The bet is double-or-nothing. Red, he's preserved, black he is
permanently dead.


If you want to gamble with the money donated for Mr. O'Rights's cryosuspension,
at least do it at Don Laughlin's Riverside Resort in Laughlin, Nevada, so that
it stays within the cryonics community if you lose:

http://www.riversideresort.com/



"Around 2010 the world will be at a new orbit in history. . . Life expectancy
will be indefinite. Disease and disability will nonexist. Death wll be rare and
accidental -- but not permanent. We will continuously jettison our obsolescence
and grow younger." F.M. Esfandiary, "Up-Wing Priorities" (1981).

Mark Plus

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31259
From: RAMole@aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:52:07 EST
Subject: Re: O'Rights -- a chance

In a message dated 12/12/2008 3:00:57 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, Chris
Manning writes:

Regarding my own donation, I have indicated that if it can't be spent on Mr
O'Rights then I want it applied to Marce Johnson. That would not be possible
if it were gambled and lost.
I think she is also short of the needed amount, though she has more than he
does. Perhaps the amounts combined are enough for one person. Then maybe the
amounts should be combined and lots drawn to see which one gets it. If she

has, say, twice what he does then she'd deserve twice the chance, so she'd get
two chips and he'd get one, to be drawn from a jar.

In this way the money would stay in the cryonics community, as opposed to

being lost to some casino. And if there were money left over, it could go to the
loser's representative, who would bet it (probably on a long-shot bet paying
6-to-1 or whatever was needed) at a casino.

As is, it looks like neither one will be preserved and someone will have to
decide what to do with the money.

I do agree that the contributors would have to agree to the plan.

Alan Mole

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31262
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 17:26:05 -0700
From: "Charles Platt" <other@platt.us>
Subject: The "cryonics community"

Mark Plus wrote:

> If you want to gamble with the money donated for Mr. O'Rights's

> cryosuspension, at least do it at Don Laughlin's Riverside Resort in Laughlin,
> Nevada, so that it stays within the cryonics community if you lose:

Much as I am fond of Mark, this is one of the strangest statements I
have ever seen him make (assuming it is even half serious). What is
this "cryonics community" which I hear so much about? I thought that
buying cryopreservation coverage was a private transaction; I didn't
know that it is supposed to create affinity between myself and other
people whom I have never met. The idea that if I'm going to throw
money away, I should throw it to them, is very weird indeed, and the
idea of throwing it to Don Laughlin makes no sense at all, since he
shows no sign of ever throwing it back.

I think that the "cryonics community" is a cultish conceit. It
perpetuates an us-vs-them mentality which I see as a real barrier to
the wider acceptance of cryonics. This is not a matter of faith--or at
least, it shouldn't be. It's a treatment option--or at least, it
should be.

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31263
From: "Chris Manning" <chauncy@westnet.com.au>
References: <20081213100002.79462.qmail@rho.pair.com>
Subject: Re: O'Rights -- a chance
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 11:55:07 +1100

> Message #31259
> From: RAMole@aol.com
> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:52:07 EST
> Subject: Re: O'Rights -- a chance
>
> In a message dated 12/12/2008 3:00:57 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, Chris
> Manning writes:
>
> Regarding my own donation, I have indicated that if it can't be spent on
> Mr
> O'Rights then I want it applied to Marce Johnson. That would not be
> possible
> if it were gambled and lost.
> I think she is also short of the needed amount, though she has more than
> he
> does.

I believe that's correct.

>Perhaps the amounts combined are enough for one person. Then maybe the
> amounts should be combined and lots drawn to see which one gets it.

Well surely this depends on the wishes of each donor. For myself I made a
donation for each of them, and I have told David Pizer that if either person
can't be suspended then I want the donation I made for that person directed
to the other.

> If she
> has, say, twice what he does then she'd deserve twice the chance,

I don't think that's obvious.

> so she'd get
> two chips and he'd get one, to be drawn from a jar.
>
> In this way the money would stay in the cryonics community, as opposed to
> being lost to some casino. And if there were money left over, it could go
> to the
> loser's representative, who would bet it (probably on a long-shot bet
> paying
> 6-to-1 or whatever was needed) at a casino.

> As is, it looks like neither one will be preserved and someone will have
> to
> decide what to do with the money.

I have told David Pizer that in that event I want my money put in some
suitable fund to be used to pay for any future needy case.

> I do agree that the contributors would have to agree to the plan.
>
> Alan Mole

In case it helps to encourage some other people to donate who havent yet
done so, I will reveal that I donated A$200 for Mr O'Rights. This converted
to US$174.30. (The Australian dollar was doing much better then than it is
now.) I am not wealthy. It works out that if just 86 new donors matched my
donation the required minimum sum would be raised.

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31268
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 01:09:10 -0700
From: Mike Perry <mike@alcor.org>
Subject: O'Rights Fund
References: <20081214100001.78103.qmail@rho.pair.com>

>In case it helps to encourage some other people to donate who havent yet
>done so, I will reveal that I donated A$200 for Mr O'Rights. This converted
>to US$174.30. (The Australian dollar was doing much better then than it is
>now.) I am not wealthy. It works out that if just 86 new donors matched my
>donation the required minimum sum would be raised.

Good!

I've just sent in $1,000 (US), my second contribution of this amount.
(The other was several months ago.) Donate what you can everybody,
and donate again if you can!
Mr. O'Rights meanwhile is bravely fighting his cancer, but time is
running out. He is now in a lot of pain, and the tumor is starting to
choke off his breathing. So far we've collected in the neighborhood
of $12-13K, or about 40% of the needed amount. Incredible, really,
but we must not stop there. We've got to push this over the top! To
donate go to http://venturist.org or http://www.quantium.....com/venturist/

Or make out and mail a check to

Society for Venturism
11255 SSR 69
Mayer, AZ 86333

(Be sure to put "O'Rights" or "O'Rights fund" in the memo field.)

This is the "season for giving" and a time to show you care. Give a
little or give a lot.

Thanks and best wishes,

Mike Perry
Society for Venturism

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31269
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 02:05:39 -0700
From: Mike Perry <mike@alcor.org>
Subject: O'Rights Fund addendum
References: <20081214100001.78103.qmail@rho.pair.com>

I should have mentioned in my last posting that the Society for
Venturusm is a 501©(3) organization and contributions are tax deductible.

MP

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31271
From: Ettinger@aol.com
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 10:23:46 EST
Subject: Fwd: [Venturists] Wm O'Rights Fund, Round 2

____________________________________
From: Ettinger
To: Venturists@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 12/16/2008 10:15:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time
Subj: Re: [Venturists] Wm O&apos;Rights Fund, Round 2


I'll send another $1,000 today or tomorrow. It's not exactly a hardship for
me, since it won't change my lifestyle any, but anything I spend or give will
reduce my estate, which means it will reduce the amount CI gets when I die,
so it is more or less equivalent to CI involuntarily giving Bill a discount.

Bob

In a message dated 12/16/2008 2:06:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mike@alcor.org writes:




William O'Rights has been bravely battling cancer for months now
(actually much longer than that) and his condition is increasingly
desperate. He is in a lot of pain now and his tumor is starting to
choke off his breathing. He wants to be cryopreserved if the end comes
and has signed up with CI but is lacking funds. So far we have raised
about $12,000 of about $30,000 that would be needed. We must not stop
here. Today I sent another $1,000 to the Venturist fund for Mr.
O'Rights. (This is a hardship inasmuch as I am not wealthy, but one I
can bear this time.) I hope as many as possible of you will be able to
donate *something*. It doesn't have to be a lot if it would be too
much for you, small amounts from many people will add up. (But give
generously if you can.) Results of the poll on the medallion are
encouraging but right now time is running short and it may not be
possible to use this method for this case. I hope you will be able to
donate anyway. The Christmas season is a time for giving--maybe some
of you can consider passing up something you were going to buy that
you really could do without to help this unfortunate person.

The Venturist organization is a 501c3 and contributions are tax
deductible. To donate you can go to the Venturist website:

_http://www.venturishttp:/_ (http://www.venturist.org/)

or

_http://www.quantiumhttp://wwwhttp://www_
(http://www.quantium.....com/venturist/)

Or send your check payable to The Society for Venturism to

Society for Venturism
11255 SSR 69
Mayer, AZ 86333

Be sure to put "O'Rights fund" in the memo field or somewhere easy to
see.

I also want to extend this appeal as far as possible to other
sympathetic groups and am looking for any advice.

Thanks for your kind consideration, best wishes.

Mike Perry

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31276
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 08:08:39 -0800 (PST)
From: david pizer <pizerdavid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Your help is needed

To all people of good will:


William O'Rights has fought his cancer, endured intense pain and agony for a
long time now. He has hung in there fighting to try to recover when others
would have given up.


William has supported and helped the cryonics movement for many years now. He
has done some good things for cryonics and he has made one of the most terrible
mistakes a lot of people who want cryonics for themselves make - he did not get
the life insurance to pay for his suspension when he was in better health years
ago. We now are told his condition is very desperate.


We have raised part of the money for William's suspension but it is not enough.
We probably will have to return it to the contributors, unless we can get a
second wind and get contributions flowing again.


We need to raise about another $15,000, and pretty fast I am told. During this
season of reflection and good will please take a look at your own situation and
see if you are able to send in a contribution to help pay for a suspension for
William.


If you are fortunate enough to be in a position where you can help, please send
your check for William's behalf to:

The Venturists
11255 State Route 69
Mayer Arizona 85333

Or go to our website and you can make an electronic contribution.

All donations are tax deductible.


Best wishes to all cryonicists the world over. Here is hoping when your time
comes you get a very good suspension and that this thing works for all of us who
respect, honor and love - life.

David Pizer
For the Venturists

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31281
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 09:49:38 -0700
From: "Charles Platt" <other@platt.us>
Subject: The danger of being a community

Rudi writes,

"As a cryonicist, I agree with others who have pointed out that we
need a 'big tent' orientation in this small community. (Sorry for
the use of "community" here, Charles Platt...'group' or 'movement'
is too grandiose for this nascent upstart.)"

But Rudi, if you avoid thinking in any of those terms, the problem goes away.

If we are not a movement, group, or community, you don't have to think
in terms of possible persecution by the pope or anyone else. How much
better for us just to be individuals exercising a choice regarding a
form of medical care.

I dislike and distrust groupthink. First, it justifies actions that
individuals often would not take on their own. And second, it
identifies the group as a target for other groups.