159 replies to this topic

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 30973
From: Ettinger@aol.com
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:46:54 EDT
Subject: Manning note

Chris Manning writes in part:

>Bob, I don't mean to be rude, but as you are approaching your 90th
birthday,
>isn't it likely that some of the moneys will have to be paid into your
>estate? And I take it your own suspension funding is taken care of. (Or
>perhaps you get a complimentary suspension?)

To repeat, the O'Rights note should say that, in event of my death, the
balance of the note is payable to the Cryonics Institute.

My own funding is prepaid in cash.

Bob

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 30974
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:07:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: William O'Rights <thefirstimmortal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Typo's

--0-1535323114-1219453638=:90210


In X-Message-Number: 30951, I posted You've got cancer, and a bunch the
apostrophes ended up as "a”? There are many other typo's, but there are no
typo's in my original document. This post looks like a 3rd grader wrote it.


I do all of my writing on a Microsoft Word so that I can take advantage of the
spell check function, and then the material is copied and pasted to Yahoo e-mail
and sent to Cryonet. Might someone know how I can avoid this problem in the
future? This isn't the first post that I have had problems with.


"YOUaC VE GOT CANCERaC , theyaC re the 3 words you never want to hear..

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 30975
From: "Chris Manning" <chauncy@westnet.com.au>
Subject: How much did you get?
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 11:11:31 +1000


Despite several requests for this information, I have still not been told (by
David Pizer or Mark Plus or anyone else who may be in possession of it) how much
money the O'Rights appeal received from my donation after conversion to US
dollars, and whether any conversion fee was charged. (I was told there would be
none.)


I would like to be able to say that I will be less likely to make similar
donations in the future if the matter is not attended to, but of course that
would not be fair to the possible future suspendees.


Another, minor matter: I forgot to make a copy of the covering letter that I
sent with my check, so if the person in possession of it is reading this, I
would also be grateful if you could send a scanned copy back to me (assuming
this is reasonably straightforward to do).

Please respond to this email off-list.

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 30976
From: "Chris Manning" <chauncy@westnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: How much did you get?
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 12:17:31 +1000


Okay, I have just received an email from Mark Plus with the amount. Thanks,
Mark. It appears there was indeed no conversion fee.

Content-Type: text/html;

[ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ]

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 30977
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 23:58:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: William O'Rights <thefirstimmortal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Thank You Chris Manning.

--0-662167005-1219474697=:70043

Thank You Chris Manning.


I would like to Thank You Chris, not only for your generous donation but also
for your thoughtful post that included the following.

"(2) If cryonics works, as we here all hope, it may come to pass that at some
future time you need help which Mr O'Rights may be in a position to offer.
'What goes around comes around.'”

Who was it that once said "That which leaves you is that which finds you.”

Live Long and Well Chris
William O'Rights

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 30978
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 01:12:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: William O'Rights <thefirstimmortal@yahoo.com>
Subject: No Debt

--0-15289190-1219479148=:40148

Robert Ettinger wrote;
X-Message-Number: 30949
From: Ettinger@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:15:56 EDT
Subject: O'Rights fund

Here's a possibility. Perhaps there are some potential donors who would be
willing to commit (say) for $100/year for ten years, total $1,000. In return for
a promissory note to that effect (zero interest), I would put up the $1,000
now, to a maximum of $10,000.

William O'Rights writes:

Bob, I am truly touched by your efforts, and looking at all possible ways to
fund this. This offer however should not go forward.


I am opposed to asking anyone to do something I would not myself do. I would not
under any circumstance finance or go into debt for someone else s suspension, I
just simply wouldn t. In the past when I had positive cash flow, I had been
generous, but I had the wealth to be generous. I had done much for
Immortalist/Life Extensionist when times were good. Some of the members at
Imminst became members because I opened up my wallet and paid their way. When it
came to a conference we had out in Connecticut I single-handedly paid for the
whole deal. I put the offer to anyone and everyone, leaders, members, registered
users, that if they were to show up, I would pay for their rooms. Party was on
me, just get there. I paid for everyone s room and because I bought such a large
block I got the hotel to throw in a 300-dollar conference room in for free.
Bruce, Laz, Randy Wicker and Mike from Mass were among some of the attendees. I
paid the way of several

members to attend other conferences that I myself did not even go to. I am so
opposed to debt that years ago when Bruce wanted Imminst to go into debt to
host his first conference, I was opposed to using Imminst funds because I
thought it an imprudent call, I suggested that we leaders could fund it, and
any leader who couldn t pony up, I would loan them their share if they thought
the conference had the ability to break even. But even then, I expected the
loan to be collateralized. I was opposed to the conference on the grounds that
it could have sunk Imminst finances, but I also offered to personally
underwrite it to the tune of over 20 grand. But I had the money to do it back
then, I assure you, if I were broke at the time I would not have given nor
would I have serviced debt to do it. I cannot accept people going into debt to
take care of my suspension.


We can do this Bob without anyone going into debt and without you having to make
any loans. We will get there.
Your Eternal Friend
Bill O'Rights

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 30979
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 14:53:51 -0500
From: Hagen <hagen@waupacaonline.net>
Subject: Re: CryoNet #30971 - #30978

Greetings from Wisconsin,


I believe that Mr. Ettinger's interest free loan offer has a great deal of
merit. Yes it is debt, but I buy things with free financing frequently. In
some cases it tips the scales in favor of accepting the offer. Also, I really
could not justify such a large expenditure to my wife but $100.00 a year for a
charitable donation will be under the radar. Can I combine the this with Mr.
Pavlica's matching offer? If so, I pledge $1000.00 I would request to hear
back from both men to ensure that this is acceptable.

Paul Hagen
Son of patient #81
(still happy with SA)

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 30980
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 19:17:14 -0700
From: Gary Kline <kline@thought.org>
Subject: my cheapskate donation....

The reason that I haven't used other ploys to make a chinzy
donation to Mr. O'Rights is that I have been (and remain)
physically disabled since mid-childhood. This makes getting to
a store, or other, impossible. I can buy things via my debit
card[s], altho because of certain financial events, I've been
asked not to use my credit union visa. And my better half has
confiscated my checkbook in any event! For this kind of deal,
to, in effect, save someone's life, whether i get credit for a
non-profit is meaningless. Otherwise, my signature is often
questionable; especially after my last brain surgery ... .

Is there a way I can contribute to this effort via PaypAl or
any other way by credit/debit card?

I have another question, but will post separately.

gary kline

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 30981
From: "FlavO Noid" <flavonoid@whoever.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 21:17:26 -0500
Subject: Request to David Pizer

--_----------=_121954424617170
Content-Disposition: inline

Could you, on behalf of the Venturists who were/are collecting funds for
Marce Johnson's cryosuspension, please give us a thorough update on

1) Her condition and situation

2) The status of the fund (how much is needed, how much is there, or if
it has been used for her cryosuspension)

Thank you.

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 30982
From: "Nick Pavlica" <npavlica@live.com>
Subject: Paul Hagen's question
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 09:36:16 -0400


Paul Hagen asked "Can I combine this with Mr. Pavlica's matching offer? If so,
I pledge $1000.00. I would request to hear back from both men to ensure that
this is acceptable."




My reply is that I don't think it would be wise to confuse the two incentive
offers.




My offer of matching all contributions made to the Cryonics Society by sending a
matching amount, (from my personal account, not from Cryonics Society funds),
to the O'Rights fund being maintained by the Venturists, only applies to cash,
credit card or PayPal contributions made on the CryonicsSociety.org website, (or
received in the mail), until September 30th, not to installments made in the
future.




Although I would agree to match an initial $100 contribution to the Cryonics
Society made by Sept. 30, I would encourage you not to do it that way as it
might complicate Mr. Ettinger's offer of financing. So please send your initial
installment to Mr. Ettinger or to the Venturists as instructed in earlier posts,
so that the accounting and contractual terms will be maintained appropriately.



Thank you.



Regards,

Nick Pavlica

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 30983
From: Ettinger@aol.com
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 10:57:54 EDT
Subject: Hagen's question

Paul Hagen writes:


>I believe that Mr. Ettinger's interest free loan offer has a great deal of
merit. Yes it is debt, but I >buy things with free financing frequently.
In some cases it tips the scales in favor of accepting the >offer. Also, I

really could not justify such a large expenditure to my wife but $100.00 a year
for a >charitable donation will be under the radar. Can I combine the this
with Mr. Pavlica's matching >offer? If so, I pledge $1000.00 I would
request to hear back from both men to ensure that this is >acceptable.

I don't think my assent is necessary. If I receive the note as specified, I
will make the payment to the O'Rights funds as stated.

R.E.

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 30984
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 09:46:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: david pizer <pizerdavid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Fw: Re: A CryoNet Post Requests Your Response There (just an ...

--- On Sun, 8/24/08, david pizer <pizerdavid@yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: david pizer <pizerdavid@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: A CryoNet Post Requests Your Response There (just an FYI)
> To: "FlavO Noid" <flavonoid@whoever.com>
> Date: Sunday, August 24, 2008, 9:36 AM

> I have been told that Marce does not recognize people but
> that she does not seem to be in any threat of dying soon.

> We have a little under $20,000 raised and that may be
> enough to get her the suspension because some of her Alcor
> friends are going to donate the labor and technology.

> Because of the agreement and those donating I am not at
> liberty to discuss this any further. I am not handling the
> relations with the family or the suspension when it happens.
> My only function is to collect the money and hold it in the
> Venturist bank account until it is needed.

> David

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 30985
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 06:44:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: William O'Rights <thefirstimmortal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Full Disclosure

--0-1392499814-1219671892=:8980

Hi Paul,

I do thank you for your donation Pual. I m battling cancer without the safety
net of a cryonics suspension to fall into should my efforts fail, so I guess I m
not going to say no to your donation or to Bobs generous offer to underwrite
some of this. I just think I have a duty to disclose that I myself wouldn t do
the same.
Live Long and Well
William C. O'Rights
The First Immortal

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 30986
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 06:55:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: William O'Rights <thefirstimmortal@yahoo.com>
Subject: =?utf-8?B?TW9t4oCZcyBGdW5lcmFs?=

--0-2040475154-1219672543=:64079

MomaC s Funeral
A

There are some more thank you notes I need to write, but I will be gone for a
few days up to Waterville Maine attending my Mothers funeral. She died this past
Saturday afternoon of Cancer, leukemia. Her Mother, my Grandmother died 2 years
ago of stomach cancer at the age of 89. My Grandparents on my DadaC s side are
both still alive and in there 90aC s. Until recently I thought I was swimming in
the deep side of the gene pool, but clearly I am not. Or at least I didnaC t
win the gene pool longevity lotto.
A
You all live long and Well.
Be back in a few days.
William OaC Rights

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 30988
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:23:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shannon <shannonvyff@yahoo.com>
Subject: William O'Rights Fund/Ettinger's offer


I was wondering if I can do the same loan for Marce as is being offered for
William. I only have donated 200 to Marce and really would love to do more, I
could cover 200 a year for both and thus be adding 1000 for each over the next
decade to the current tally.


Health, Happiness, Wisdom & Longevity :-) --Shannon Vyff

"21st Century Kids"
http://www.amazon.co...f/dp/1886057001



X-Message-Number: 30989
From: Ettinger@aol.com
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:11:12 EDT
Subject: Re: CryoNet #30985 - #30988

Shannon Vyff writes in part:


>I was wondering if I can do the same loan for Marce as is being offered for
William.
>I only have donated 200 to Marce and really would love to do more, I could
cover 200
>a year for both and thus be adding 1000 for >each over the next decade to
the current tally.

As I understand it from various messages, Marce does not have a funding
shortfall--her problems are elsewhere.

Bob

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 30991
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:35:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shannon <shannonvyff@yahoo.com>
Subject: Paypal for O'Rights

Here is the paypal account email for William O'Rights:

orights.cancer.cryonics.fund@gmail.com



This was set up by ImmInst for him, the proceeds will be going to the
Venturist's fund, or if not enough is raised for him then Marce.


I know Marce has Alzheimer's, and has had some problems with family support of
cryonics--I had heard last that she almost had enough money but was still short
8 thousand or so, and that her husband was supporting the suspension.


In Marce's case anyone that contributed will get their money back if Marce is
not suspended (unless they noted otherwise).


The money donated to William's Paypal, will go to Marce's fund if he is not
suspended, and then to the Venturists for cryonics support and the seed for
future charity suspensions -- if Marce is not suspended (unless you note
specifically otherwise).

Thanks,

Shannon Vyff ImmInst Board Chair

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 30993
From: "Chris Manning" <chauncy@westnet.com.au>
Subject: (1) checks and (2) raffles
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:26:21 +1000

(1) checks

David Verbeke wrote:

I haven't had or used a 'cheque' for
> over 10 years, nobody's using that anymore here. (I
> don't even know if the bank still issues them, except
> for company's or 'bank cheques' when you have to
> pay a large amount of money without wire transfer). I often
> visit the US, and never saw someone paying by cheque.



This is all very strange. For decades I had been under the impression that
personal cheques cannot be used to send money to another country. It is only
with this O'Rights appeal that I discovered that a US bank, the M & I Bank, will
accept a personal cheque drawn on an Australian bank. David Pizer told me that
as far as he knew this was the case. So I sent a cheque for the O'Rights appeal
and it has now been duly debited to my account.


But then David Verbeke says that nobody there (I assume he means in Belgium)
uses cheques any more! And he hasn't seen them in use in the US either. As far
as I can tell they are alive and well here in Australia. I receive a new cheque
book from my bank automatically in the mail whenever I am approaching the last
cheque in my current book. They haven't told me anything about cheques being
phased out, or anything like that.

It would be nice if anyone out there could throw some light on the above.


(2) On August 21 I wrote:

'It is disappointing that nobody has said anything at all about my suggestion
that a raffle be held to raise money for the O'Rights appeal, assuming
raffles are legal in the US.'


It was 'disappointing' then. What word should I use to describe the fact that I
have *still* had no response to my suggestion?


You can at least tell us whether, if such a raffle were held, you would buy a
ticket. This email is addressed to the membership of CryoNet, jointly and
severally.

Edited by thefirstimmortal, 03 September 2008 - 04:53 PM.

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 30994
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:36:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shannon <shannonvyff@yahoo.com>
Subject: Pay Pal for O-Rights, further information


Please note the following information if you are planning on donating to William
O'Rights papal account, administered by ImmInst. Or if you have already done
so.


Write in the notes with your donation, or send me an email--if you would like
your money going to cryonic suspension, or going towards supplements for William
to fight the cancer. You can designate the full proceeds towards either, or
designate an amount towards each option.

Here is the paypal account email for William O'Rights:

orights.cancer.cryonics.fund@gmail.com



(This was set up by ImmInst for him, the proceeds will be going to the
Venturist's fund, or if not enough is raised for his suspension then Marce's. In
Marce's case anyone that contributed will get their money back if Marce is not
suspended, unless they noted otherwise and wanted the Venturists to keep it for
future charity work, or cryonics support).



Thanks,

Shannon Vyff ImmInst Board Chair

Edited by thefirstimmortal, 03 September 2008 - 04:56 PM.

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 30995
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:11:37 -0700
From: Gary Kline <kline@thought.org>
Subject: Re: CryoNet #30990 - #30991
References: <20080828090001.36273.qmail@rho.pair.com>

On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 09:00:01AM -0000, CryoNet wrote:
> CryoNet - Thu 28 Aug 2008
>
> #30990: Vote to help end aging (free, easy to do-link provided) [Shannon]
> #30991: Paypal for O'Rights [Shannon]
>
> Message #30991
> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:35:05 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Shannon <shannonvyff@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Paypal for O'Rights
>
> Here is the paypal account email for William O'Rights:
>
> orights.cancer.cryonics.fund@gmail.com
>
>

(Somehow I seemed to have signed up for the digest instead of
individual emails.... But this should do.)

I am not try to play on my ignorance of Paypal; it's just that
the few times I've used it have been from commercial sites that
have things set up in their HTML or PHP and will point to the
right URL. iF i login to paypal.com, is the
"orights.cancer.cryonics.fund" going to get me to the right
place? If not, then how else?

gary kline

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 30997
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 16:25:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: William O'Rights <thefirstimmortal@yahoo.com>
Subject: The Venturist policy

--0-873737297-1219965917=:49789

Hi Shannon,

I hate to correct you on this, but that is not what was represented to the
donors. Message Number: 30880
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 16:40:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: david pizer <pizerdavid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Chance to help cryonicists in trouble

The Venturist policy is as follows:

If for some reason Mr. O'Rights is not suspended at legal death we will refund
the contribution to the contributor UNLESS the contributor instructs us to use
it for some other similar charity venture, for instance the suspension of
another person who needed financial help.

All donations go to the cause they are intended for!


Shannon, I m certainly not opposed to the money going to Marce, I have already
made my feelings on that matter well known at Imminst, but the policy for this
has already been put forth. It is for the Donor to decide what happens to the
donation if I do not make it. By default Shannon, they get their money back.
Live Long and Well
William C. O'Rights
The First Immortal

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 30998
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:17:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: William O'Rights <thefirstimmortal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Thank You Mike D.

--0-405566879-1219969059=:59746

I like your Donation Mike, and I love your logic.
Thank You Mike D.
Live Long and Well
X-Message-Number: 30953
From: HEYMIKE@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:26:10 EDT

I guess I decided to help because if Robert Heinlein turned down a free
suspension then I think Mr. O'Rights who wants a chance to see the future should
get one. I know that's a weird twist of logic but it was what made the
impetus to write the check.


If for some reason Mr. O'Rights is not suspended at legal death we will refund
the contribution to the contributor UNLESS the contributor instructs us to use
it for some other similar charity venture, for instance the suspension of
another person who needed financial help.

All donations go to the cause they are intended for!


Shannon, I m certainly not opposed to the money going to Marce, I have already
made my feelings on that matter well known at Imminst, but the policy for this
has already been put forth. It is for the Donor to decide what happens to the
donation if I do not make it. By default Shannon, they get their money back.
Live Long and Well
William C. O'Rights
The First Immortal
[/quote]

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 30999
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:02:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: William O'Rights <thefirstimmortal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Warning for All Cryonicists

--0-779352855-1219975364=:77620

Warning for All Cryonicists


David in Message Number: 30885 Wrote, "He just did not get *his* life insurance
in place before he came down with a terminal illness and became unable to buy
the insurance now.”


David Wrote in Message-Number: 30946 "We have talked about William's mistakes in
not getting his suspension paid for when he was in better health and when he
had the money to buy life insurance.”


The truth is, I never intended to get insurance, my plan was to cash this deal
out. I did not care to correct Dave because at the time I considered the error
de minimus.


I never cared for the whole life insurance thing because your life depends on an
insurance company cutting a check, something that doesn't give me a warm fuzzy
feeling inside as compared with having a fully funded the cash is already in the
bank fund. Dave of course is sill correct when he posts "He screwed up here.
He knows it. He admits it.” I did, I delayed in funding that account when the
cash cost would have been trivial to me at the time.


But what position would I be in if I had decided to go with insurance? I would
be in the same position I am now. I reviewed Mike Darwin letter about Marce
written March 8, 2007 titled Warning for All Cryonicists. There was a relevant
passage "Walt and Marce were confronted with spend down in the face of monthly
nursing home bills of over $5,000. Medicare does not begin to cover these
expenses until the patient has $2,000 or less in total assets not even enough
for burial. Marce's and Walt's cryonics insurance policies had been cashed-out
and used for her nursing home care.”


Recently I was faced with the same situation of having to apply for MaineCare,
the same thing as Medicare. The paperwork asks you about insurance, and it's
something you have to liquidate before you qualify. So even if I had a policy it
would be gone today.


Both Marce and I demonstrate the flaw in funding through insurance. To anyone
who dies a sudden death, not a problem, but if you have a terminal illness or
disability or long term illness that wipes you out, your policy could get wiped
out also. It's something that everyone who is counting on life insurance should
carefully think about, or there will be more cryonicist who through no fault of
their own will not make it.


I believe we need moreknowledge about this subject of insurance and the possible
shortcomings of using it as a funding method. When in doubt, check it out. The
less knowledge we have about this subject, the more likely we are to pay
attention to information that really doesn't matter when making decisions that
really do.
Live Long and Well
William C. O'Rights
The First Immortal

[bgwowk]

But what position would I be in if I had decided to go with insurance? I would
be in the same position I am now. I reviewed Mike Darwin letter about Marce
written March 8, 2007 titled Warning for All Cryonicists. There was a relevant
passage "Walt and Marce were confronted with spend down in the face of monthly
nursing home bills of over $5,000. Medicare does not begin to cover these
expenses until the patient has $2,000 or less in total assets not even enough
for burial. Marce's and Walt's cryonics insurance policies had been cashed-out
and used for her nursing home care.”

Recently I was faced with the same situation of having to apply for MaineCare,
the same thing as Medicare. The paperwork asks you about insurance, and it's
something you have to liquidate before you qualify. So even if I had a policy it
would be gone today.

Both Marce and I demonstrate the flaw in funding through insurance. To anyone
who dies a sudden death, not a problem, but if you have a terminal illness or
disability or long term illness that wipes you out, your policy could get wiped
out also. It's something that everyone who is counting on life insurance should
carefully think about, or there will be more cryonicist who through no fault of
their own will not make it.

The person insured by a life insurance policy need not have an ownership interest in the policy. For the past several years Alcor has required that Alcor own the cryonics life insurance policies of new members. This places the policy beyond the reach of any creditor, plaintiff, or spend-down required for benefits eligibility.

Frankly I had not thought about this much until you raised the issue, so thanks for doing so. The financial impact of illness is not only an argument for signing up for cryonics while still young and healthy, but also an argument for making your cryonics organization the owner of your life insurance policy. I'm sorry about your predicament, William, and I have made a modest contribution to your rescue fund.

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31000
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:29:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: William O'Rights <thefirstimmortal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Death, the Eternal Footman

--0-366472945-1219980569=:85351


My Mom passed away last Saturday by all accounts in a peaceful manner, mostly
due to the morphine she was on. Her death was expected, and of course I feel the
loss, but there was an extra sense of a different kind of feeling. They had to
arrange the funeral at 11 am Wednesday morning so that I could leave to attend
my chemo treatment. They mentioned my Grandmother, who passed with stomach
cancer, and there I was, smack dab in the middle of the red zone of my own death
prognosis attending my Mothers funeral who passed away from cancer. There were
my direct ascendants both passed away from cancer.


I don t want to sound macabre but now every time I look in the bathroom mirror,
I see Death, the Eternal Footman (looking quite proud), standing in the shadows
behind me, holding my coat, snickering.

Edited by thefirstimmortal, 03 September 2008 - 10:12 PM.

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31001
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 06:25:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: William O'Rights <thefirstimmortal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Post request by Mind

--0-626523665-1220016343=:58499

Mind has requested that I post the following.

I sent a message to cryonet about Paypal, explaining that the Institue has not
had any trouble with Paypal and the IRS and we have been using it for over 6
years now, however, I must have done something wrong because it never showed up
in the cryonet digest.

Maybe you can post the text William.

QUOTE

The Immortality Institute has been using Paypal for 6 years. It is a 501C(3) and
has had no trouble. We currently have a paypal account
orights.cancer.cryonics.fund@gmail.com up and running for some donations. Money
will go to any supplements he needs to battle cancer and stay alive as long as
possible with any leftover going toward suspension costs if needed.

Justin Loew
Immortality Institute

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31002
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 06:54:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shannon <shannonvyff@yahoo.com>
Subject: O'Rights PayPal & Free Easy Vote to Help End Aging


Hello, all--I do want to be clear that it is up to the person who donates to
the Immortality Institute Administered Pay Pal fund for William O'Rights
(TheFirstImmortal), how they want their money to be used.


One's donation can go to William's suspension, go back to them if he is not
suspended, or go to Marce or the general Venturist fund. Anyone can donate to
either William's cryonics preservation or his supplement fund, just say where
you want the money to go, and what you want done with it if he is not suspended.
(Odds are he will be using money donated for supplements)


When you are at Paypal you can enter in the email address of the person you want
to send money to. So enter in:

orights.cancer.cryonics.fund@gmail.com


I will contact anyone who has donated if it I can not tell where they are
wanting their money to go--cryonics or supplements. In the event of no cryonic
suspension then, to Marce, back to them, or to the Venturists.

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31003
From: "John de Rivaz" <john@derivaz.com>
Subject: note on insurance
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:46:14 +0100


I think that there is still a way of writing insurance policies so that they
cannot be drawn down if the insured is a victim of illness or litigation. It may
not last for ever, but it is worth using if it is still there. Rudy Hoffman is
on holiday at present, but he should comment authoritatively on his return.

Otherwise see http://www.rudyhoffman.com

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31004
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:51:41 -0600
From: "Finance Department" <knotwiller@gmail.com>
Subject: Protecting Life Insurance Assets

------=_Part_22661_31911353.1220021501411
Content-Disposition: inline

If you have an insurance policy, whether term or whole, which you are using
or intend to use as funding for cryonics services, you can protect its value
from predators by making the cryonics organization the owner, not just the
beneficiary, of the policy.

If your name stays on it as owner, though, it is a simple fact - you own it,
the cryonics organization doesn't (until your death and they get the money
as beneficiary). And if it is all or part whole life and has a cash value,
and you own it, you could be required to tap into that cash value as part of
your "paydown" process to be eligible for publically subsidized medical
services. As I understand the story, the latter is something close to what
happened to Marce Johnson's funding. If you own a policy and then die,
various parties who think you owe them something (including close relatives)
could file suit to try to get some or all of the money. Then your cryonics
organization would lose out.

I believe I have heard that Alcor requires being the owner of the policy,
and provides an agreement to return ownership if you discontinue their
services. I don't know about CI, ACS, etc.

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31006
From: "J Coetzee MSc" <agingtheory@gmail.com>
References: <20080828090001.36273.qmail@rho.pair.com>
Subject: Life insurance
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:53:19 -0400

Bill is right if one think about it. Life insurance premiums can become a
big problem if you are chronically ill. Medical expenses can wipe your
assets out in no time. Good private medical health insurance covers up to
two million dollars. That will not last a year if you had cancer. Then you
are on your own. The only solution seem to die relatively young. How can
you this without committing suicide? Starve to death. They will force feed
you. Indeed a big problem.

Basie


X-Message-Number: 31007
From: David Stodolsky <dss@secureid.net>
Subject: Re: Warning for All Cryonicists
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 21:27:38 +0200

> Both Marce and I demonstrate the flaw in funding through insurance.
> To anyone who dies a sudden death, not a problem, but if you have a
> terminal illness or disability or long term illness that wipes you
> out, your policy could get wiped out also. It's something that
> everyone who is counting on life insurance should carefully think
> about, or there will be more cryonicist who through no fault of
> their own will not make it.

Looks like this is one more argument for my proposal of prepaid
collective coverage.

Is there someone who can shake loose the money to try this, or do we
have to see many more disasters and last minute fundraising efforts?


dss

[thefirstimmortal]

X-Message-Number: 31009
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 06:43:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: William O'Rights <thefirstimmortal@yahoo.com>
Subject: THE FIRST LIBERTY

--0-446777986-1220276619=:24531

Dear Mr. O'Rights,

I'm York Porter, the President of the Immortalist Society. Each time
LongLife magazine comes out I try to do an article on the last page
entitled "The Final Word". Attached should be this next issue's article
which uses some of your writing (somewhat paraphrased) to try to make the
point to readers about not analyzing things too much. Would like you to
give it a quick read and write me back as soon as you can about whether
this would be acceptable to you.

Dear Mr. Porter,

I'm not sure if you got by my name, "William Constitution O'Rights" AKA Bill
O'Rights, that I'm pretty big on freedom of the press. As such, I have no
intention of subjecting your article to prior restraint, althoiugh I cerainly
appreciate your contacting me on this matter, that was very thoughtful of you.

Please note that I did not identify you by name.
I would be pleased if you did identify me.

Also, as you can
read and as I said, I may have edited a word or two from your Cryonet
posting but I think I got the gist of what you were saying.
Am hoping you are doing reasonably well. Thanking you in advance for
your input.


I have 2 requests York, I would like to read what you have writtten after it has
been published, and may I liberate this e-mail to the public domain?

York

Live Long and Well
William Constitution O'Rights