271 replies to this topic

[tham]

I'm not sure if it would be of any use, but if things are looking truly desperate I am technically trained to administer IV's, although the legalities of it are somewhat complicated as an EMT/Paramedic in training. I can perform procedures under medical direction so hypothetically a doctor from anywhere could give the order. By the end of today I'll be on winter break for the next few weeks and if need be I could take a little road trip; but I imagine if the IV is the only issue there are plenty of people closer who could do this. Of course, I do also know CPR, resuscitation etc. but I hope it won't come to that. Given my relatively minimal level of training (compared to, say, a doctor) and experience, I'm really putting this out there if nothing else works out.

Yes, PetiaKiaRose, that is a great idea, I think you are
just the right man we are looking for !

Perhaps you could also PM Bill and Minni and let them know
about your expertise ? Your level of training and experience
is more than enough for Bill's desperate needs at this
stage, I believe.

I doubt if we can find a chelation doctor who is willing
to travel to Bill's rather isolated house off Acton, or
sufficent funds for it, at this late hour. Minni appears
to have been searching for months.

Your generous offer to help and vacation break has just
come at the right time. Bill already has the vitamin C and
equipment, I think. All he needs is someone trained to
administer it intravenously.

Bill's phone number in the ward is 207) 662-7673.

His email is thefirstimmortal@yahoo.com, but there appears
to be a bug, and I receive a messaging saying mails sent
there are "delayed".

Edited by tham, 16 December 2008 - 10:44 AM.

[missminni]

I'm not sure if it would be of any use, but if things are looking truly desperate I am technically trained to administer IV's, although the legalities of it are somewhat complicated as an EMT/Paramedic in training. I can perform procedures under medical direction so hypothetically a doctor from anywhere could give the order. By the end of today I'll be on winter break for the next few weeks and if need be I could take a little road trip; but I imagine if the IV is the only issue there are plenty of people closer who could do this. Of course, I do also know CPR, resuscitation etc. but I hope it won't come to that. Given my relatively minimal level of training (compared to, say, a doctor) and experience, I'm really putting this out there if nothing else works out.

You are the answer to our prayers. I mean that. PLEASE call Bill at
this phone number in his room is 207-662-7673. Please call asap.
This is what we have been waiting for. Someone like you.
His email is <thefirstimmortal@yahoo.com>
but he answers the phone, so please call and make arrangements with him pronto.

[missminni]

I'm not sure if it would be of any use, but if things are looking truly desperate I am technically trained to administer IV's, although the legalities of it are somewhat complicated as an EMT/Paramedic in training. I can perform procedures under medical direction so hypothetically a doctor from anywhere could give the order. By the end of today I'll be on winter break for the next few weeks and if need be I could take a little road trip; but I imagine if the IV is the only issue there are plenty of people closer who could do this. Of course, I do also know CPR, resuscitation etc. but I hope it won't come to that. Given my relatively minimal level of training (compared to, say, a doctor) and experience, I'm really putting this out there if nothing else works out.

Also, any expenses that you need to do this, we can take care of. Let is know what they are.
Please don't let anything deter you from this.

[Heliotrope]

I'm not sure if it would be of any use, but if things are looking truly desperate I am technically trained to administer IV's, although the legalities of it are somewhat complicated as an EMT/Paramedic in training. I can perform procedures under medical direction so hypothetically a doctor from anywhere could give the order. By the end of today I'll be on winter break for the next few weeks and if need be I could take a little road trip; but I imagine if the IV is the only issue there are plenty of people closer who could do this. Of course, I do also know CPR, resuscitation etc. but I hope it won't come to that. Given my relatively minimal level of training (compared to, say, a doctor) and experience, I'm really putting this out there if nothing else works out.

from indiana to maine is a long drive, maybe some frequent flyer here can give you airline miles and a ticket to fly there, whats the nearest city w airport to where TFI lives ??

[thefirstimmortal]

I'm not sure if it would be of any use, but if things are looking truly desperate I am technically trained to administer IV's, although the legalities of it are somewhat complicated as an EMT/Paramedic in training. I can perform procedures under medical direction so hypothetically a doctor from anywhere could give the order. By the end of today I'll be on winter break for the next few weeks and if need be I could take a little road trip; but I imagine if the IV is the only issue there are plenty of people closer who could do this. Of course, I do also know CPR, resuscitation etc. but I hope it won't come to that. Given my relatively minimal level of training (compared to, say, a doctor) and experience, I'm really putting this out there if nothing else works out.

I don't see this as very practical. We live a long ways away. How did you see this as a working plan? Distance, time travel. I do have to thank you for stepping up to the plate and maling this offer. Give me your proposal.

[thefirstimmortal]

I have absolutely no influence or authority over any of the funds collected for Bill. I know they are sizeable, but seem to be slated only for cryonics.
That would be up to the directors at Imminst. If they would like him to stay alive long enough for cryonics, maybe they could
organize and/or finance a doctor going to him.

The cryonics account is being raised by the Society of Venturism, the directors at Imminst have absolutely no say in the matter. The only account that I am aware of thatImminst had any involvement in was the pay pal account that collected 600 dollars for vitamins.

I think finding a doctor who would do it is not as much an issue as paying for it.
As for contacting doctors and talking to them about this, I tried and had no luck. Couldn't get by the receptionists.
I think you would have to be someone in medicine or at least sound like a doctor to get through. Unfortunately I can't do that.
The most I ever got from all my phone calls was a list of agencies that would help pay for travel to treatment, but not the treatment.
It was bizarre. That's why I started this thread. Hoping a doctor or health professional could help and that the fund organizers
might suggest something, since they control the money. So far, we're batting zero.

ETA~as to your questions about his family and Carol...
He has no family to speak of. His mom died this summer from cancer. Carol is a friend of his moms (i think) who he is staying with.
She doesn't have money. She lives out in the backwoods where roads don't even get plowed when it snows. You do know that Bill was
incarcerated up until May? He developed Cancer while in prison and they refused him treatment for six months.
He has no money, no home, nothing. It was all confiscated when he was arrested.[/font][/size]

[Immortal Rain]

Seems your situation is dire. I hope you survive. How many accounts are there? how much money donated? $600 at imminst, thousands of dollars at other accounts and orgs? Why not consolidate funds? Money's given to help you , so should be used for whatever's good.

Edited by Immortal Rain, 17 December 2008 - 02:49 AM.

[lunarsolarpower]

Bill's oncologist, Kurt Ebrahim, at Maine Medical Center
in Portland and also attached to the Maine Cancer Center
in Scarborough, is actually an osteopath (DO).

So is Matthew Dugan, director of the amrubicin study
at Maine Cancer Center.

I never knew that osteopaths in the US were allowed to
practise a field as specialized and critical as oncology ?

As I said, both MDs and DOs are fully licensed physicians in the US. Allopathic medical schools (where you earn an MD) and osteopathic medical schools (where you earn a DO) are very slightly different in their training protocols but they both lead to the same license. Allopathic schools are a bit more competitive to get into due to the fame and prestige of the initials MD. Confusingly enough a DO can be an ophthalomologist - a type of physician. At the same time optometrists earn OD degrees and are NOT physicians although they are still "eye doctors". Don't even get me started on the difference between DDS and DMD (hint: there isn't any).

[Heliotrope]

As I said, both MDs and DOs are fully licensed physicians in the US. Allopathic medical schools (where you earn an MD) and osteopathic medical schools (where you earn a DO) are very slightly different in their training protocols but they both lead to the same license. Allopathic schools are a bit more competitive to get into due to the fame and prestige of the initials MD. Confusingly enough a DO can be an ophthalomologist - a type of physician. At the same time optometrists earn OD degrees and are NOT physicians although they are still "eye doctors". Don't even get me started on the difference between DDS and DMD (hint: there isn't any).

so Kurt doesn't agree w/ many here, incompatiable w/ TFI. MD or DO, there're some doctors on imminst right? lunarsolar: aren't you one ? at least many docs-in-training @ imminst. There are some EMTs and paramedic mentioned too. someone can intervene and go help a dying man. Certificate/License/rule can be bypassed a little right?

We have strong connections, esp. those in the profession. thru so many connections in the Med world, there's not any fitting our criteria that's successfully been contacted in maine???

Edited by HYP86, 17 December 2008 - 03:44 AM.

[thefirstimmortal]

Basically yes. 175$ per vitamin C drip is an incredible rip-off, but this is not the issue. The problem is that it is only a short-term solution with unkonwn effects on SCLC in humans.

We have all read the reports showing promising results with very small downside. And 5 pounds of the right V-C goes for under 100 dollars, and yet, look how hard it is to put an alternative program together.

On the other hand I said, TFI & others need to make the best choice between cryonics and supplements, even if cryonics is more important (my opinion), if he dies before there's enough money for cryo, yeah... very bad.
[size=2][font="Courier"]

I'm thinking those very thoughts. I am not holding up well right now, and frankly I need more time on the clock to see the fund raiser through.

[thefirstimmortal]

Guys,

just an FYI, I think there are 3 funds (maybe I am incorrect and there are only 2):

1- This has close to $1500 that is for supplements and general things Bill needs, which are contributions from folks buying RG products. When Bill needs anything, he usually lets me know. I would not make a move without his consent with these funds.
2- Imminst fund from paypal contributors. I believe this one is set up by imminst members, and It's likely also controled by Bill through Shannon or Mind.
3- Cryonics paypal fund with a little over $13k which doesn't cover cryonics expense... yet.

Correct me if I am wrong on the funds list.

Having said that, coordination is getting harder to do with Bill because of the circumstances...

A

These are the 3 funds that I am aware of.

Minni,

Call Carol to ask Bill if he would like to give his approval to
use any, or all, of the three funds (or two ?) mentioned by
Anthony, to hire a doctor to go to his home to start the vitamin C
and/or resveratrol therapy.
You don't understand the nature of these funds. I have no Authority to release the funds collected by the Society of Venturism. Last I knew, the funds in the Imminst account were at or near zero. I have not a clue how they report the collections of that fund. Anthony's fund is easy to follow because it's all done in one thread where he reports donations and also takes the orders for supplements. I can access the latest data anytime I want. Sheer genius in it's simplicity to monitor.

[Wandering Jew]

Seems your situation is dire. I hope you survive. How many accounts are there? how much money donated? $600 at imminst, thousands of dollars at other accounts and orgs? Why not consolidate funds? Money's given to help you , so should be used for whatever's good.

I second that. Combine resources and use funds wisely.

[Wandering Jew]

Any doctors in house?

[thefirstimmortal]

. Bill is not putting himself first in this equation. He is always concerned for the
other guy. It just blows my mind.
Also,
Bill doesn't have a laptop. When he is in the hospital he uses a computer in the patients lounge. [/font][/size]

That used to be true, but they set up computer for me in my room. It's not a laptop, I'm not sure what it is, standard really.

[thefirstimmortal]

Minni, from your PM, it appears three people are tying
Bill's hands now - Kurt, Carol and Bill himself.

Why did he go back to that hospital ?

Gee Tham, which times are we talking about, you mean the returns for the heart probelms, or last time when I was having problems breathing and came in gasping for air, begging to snuggle up to one of those nice green Oxygen machines?
Why didn't he
just go over to Maine Wellness Integrative Center
when he had the free choice and was still in fairly
good shape over a month ago, when I gave him the link ?
Tham, I'm fairly confident that the Maine Wellness Integrative Center was brought up by me, long before you posted about it.

The chemical you mentioned which that center's vitamin C
infusion has shouldn't be a problem, Bill probably made
too much of a fuss about it. I'm sure the chelation doctors
there are experienced with it and knows how to work around
it, having given it to many other patients before. It's probably
just a mild venous constrictor, I'm sure they have other
drugs to counteract any side effects if there is a need to.

The RECNAC protocol must have been given to virtually
thousands of cancer patients by now since it was first
developed by Hugh Riordan over a decade ago. There
shouldn't be any problem, other than a Herxheimer reaction
which can be easily managed by the doctors.

Bill seems quite adamant and nonchalant in his personality - for
example, he didn't seem to listen to me and David when we told
him about the powerful abilities of sodium valproate against SCLC.
Quite simply, all he had to do was request that oncologist, or any
other doctor for that matter (including Jeff Young) to write him a
prescription for that drug.

Tham, you don't seem to get it. I have yet to get these doctors to just give me prescription for something I wanted. I made some headway with JEFF, BUT HE WAS LATE TO the table.

Over here in Malaysia, all I have to do is just drive over to my
usual pharmacy, buy Epilim (sodium valproate) over the counter
(although technically it has to be dispensed by the pharmacist),
go home and pop a tablet into my mouth. That was what I was
thinking of trying out for my tinnitus years ago, if not for its
liver toxicity. Costs M$1.80 for a 500 mg sustained-release tab
currently - about 50 cents over there. Must have been less
than half this at that time.

[thefirstimmortal]

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Edited by thefirstimmortal, 17 December 2008 - 06:28 AM.

[thefirstimmortal]

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Edited by thefirstimmortal, 17 December 2008 - 06:30 AM.

[thefirstimmortal]

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Edited by thefirstimmortal, 17 December 2008 - 06:31 AM.

[thefirstimmortal]

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Edited by thefirstimmortal, 17 December 2008 - 06:36 AM.

[thefirstimmortal]

[edit05

Edited by thefirstimmortal, 17 December 2008 - 06:39 AM.

[thefirstimmortal]

edit08

Edited by thefirstimmortal, 17 December 2008 - 06:47 AM.

[missminni]

I'm not sure if it would be of any use, but if things are looking truly desperate I am technically trained to administer IV's, although the legalities of it are somewhat complicated as an EMT/Paramedic in training. I can perform procedures under medical direction so hypothetically a doctor from anywhere could give the order. By the end of today I'll be on winter break for the next few weeks and if need be I could take a little road trip; but I imagine if the IV is the only issue there are plenty of people closer who could do this. Of course, I do also know CPR, resuscitation etc. but I hope it won't come to that. Given my relatively minimal level of training (compared to, say, a doctor) and experience, I'm really putting this out there if nothing else works out.

I don't see this as very practical. We live a long ways away. How did you see this as a working plan? Distance, time travel. I do have to thank you for stepping up to the plate and maling this offer. Give me your proposal.

What are you talking about? Indiana to Maine is a couple hours by air...no big deal..and there is money enough to cover it - if not from
any of the funds that have been collecting money...(which, oddly enough, seem to be more for death than life) - than from members
who have offered to help with money in just such a situation. This is your life Bill !! don't be so cavalier with it...
Finally someone steps to the plate and you are telling them it's not practical?? I don't get it. You're dying. You need help and you are
saying it's not practical? Forgive me, but this is just absurd to me. Is dying without trying more practical?
PetaKiaRose offered to help
and there are funds enough to help him get to you, and I am shocked that nobody controlling those funds has posted one encouraging word here
about using those funds to actually help you live...and now that somebody finally steps to the plate, nobody responds positively to it? not even
you? What the f? Is this just an exercise in futility? I know if I were in a life and death situation I would find a way to make this happen, not
look for excuses why it's not practical. If the issue of him having to stay around for a while becomes a problem, he could teach you or carol how to administer the IV yourself. How could you not take advantage of this opportunity?

And Shannon and Anthony please speak up about available funds. I've PM'd you both and the only response I got was from Shannon saying in reference to PetKiaRose needing funding to get to Bill
"If he contacts us that he is willing, I think Anthony can access his funds more quickly too"
Not exactly resounding with enthusiasm, but at least acknowledging that it can be done!
So there you have it. Can we now please do something positive about this situation instead of wasting precious time bullshitting about it?
I can only be a catalyst for action. You have to follow through.

[Brainbox]

I did spend a few bucks on the cryonics fund since that was the only one I was aware of. I don't mind to use it in any other productive way that increases TFI's health and well being.

[tham]

That's alright, Bill.

That had been sorted out is now past. Sorry for my misunderstanding.

Things are pretty much different over here and in the US,
where you need a doctor's presciption for everything.

But then again, many of these online pharmacies have a doctor
in-house to actually write you that prescription when you order
any controlled drug from them, thus taking care of that technicality.
They just want your business, so will do all they can to help you
bypass the legal requirements. A prescription is nothing more
than a drug chit written on the doctor's letterhead and signed
by an MD. (Many private clinics here in Malaysia will write you a
sick leave chit saying that you are unfit for work for a few days,
for a small sum. During the 80s, I once asked a clinic near my
house to do that for an office mate during the 80s for 5 bucks,
the going rate for a day of sick leave at that time.)


But the important thing now is to get you to start on the vitamin C.

Bill, take up PetaKiaRose's offer, he's your only chance,
don't blow this one as well !

The travel problems and expenses can be sorted out, that's
secondary. I'm sure the Minni or the others can start a new
thread requesting for contributions and travel assistance for
this, once the ball starts rolling.

If not, your hopes of finding someone else at this late stage,
especially a doctor, is close to zero. How often do you hear
of someone who knows how to start an IV drip, trained as
a paramedic, and is willing to travel to your place, suddenly
pop out from out of the blue and offer to do this ? The odds
are similar to striking a lottery. As Minni said, PetaKiaRose is
the answer to our prayers.

As you told me over the phone, doctors over there don't
normally make house calls, especially to the isolated area you
are living in now. So we can write the Maine Wellness Center
off as well. Minni has been hunting high and low for months.

With your condition now, the situation is already desperate.
And you want to throw it away now ? That's equivalent to
a starving man throwing away a plate of sirloin steak given
to him.

It's now or never. Unless of course, Santa Claus decides to
post here and says that he will be flying over with his reindeer
and start the vitamin C for you by Christmas.

Edited by tham, 17 December 2008 - 11:16 AM.

[kismet]

Seems your situation is dire. I hope you survive. How many accounts are there? how much money donated? $600 at imminst, thousands of dollars at other accounts and orgs? Why not consolidate funds? Money's given to help you , so should be used for whatever's good.

I second that. Combine resources and use funds wisely.

No, only if necessery. Even then it might be hard to access the money, but one could talk to the society of venturists anyway. As long as there is enough money in the other funds to pay for PetaKiaRose's plan I'm against the idea.

tham, missminni didn't bill accept petkiarose's plan when he said "Give me your proposal." Sounded to me like a cautious "yes" with a healthy dose of scepticism. I hope I am right.
But what about the legal problems if a paramedic in training administers IVs to a patient without his doctor's consent?

[missminni]

Seems your situation is dire. I hope you survive. How many accounts are there? how much money donated? $600 at imminst, thousands of dollars at other accounts and orgs? Why not consolidate funds? Money's given to help you , so should be used for whatever's good.

I second that. Combine resources and use funds wisely.

No, only if necessery. Even then it might be hard to access the money, but one could talk to the society of venturists anyway. As long as there is enough money in the other funds to pay for PetaKiaRose's plan I'm against the idea.

tham, missminni didn't bill accept petkiarose's plan when he said "Give me your proposal." Sounded to me like a cautious "yes" with a healthy dose of scepticism. I hope I am right.
But what about the legal problems if a paramedic in training administers IVs to a patient without his doctor's consent?

Bill is on his deathbed. If a paramedic tries to save his life do you think there
will be a problem with that? And if there is a concern that such issue might arise, Bill can sign a waiver of liability.
I hope this is not going to become the new argument that wastes yet more precious time ....instead of just getting PetakiaRose out there.

[jCole]

TFI, you up for a phone call today? Will try and call in a bit...

[jCole]

Is there a fund for TFI's Cryonics? I apologize if this has been answered... my time has been severely limited lately as my company has been absorbing most my time. So not much time to read through everything.

Thanks.

[tham]

Seems your situation is dire. I hope you survive. How many accounts are there? how much money donated? $600 at imminst, thousands of dollars at other accounts and orgs? Why not consolidate funds? Money's given to help you , so should be used for whatever's good.

I second that. Combine resources and use funds wisely.

No, only if necessery. Even then it might be hard to access the money, but one could talk to the society of venturists anyway. As long as there is enough money in the other funds to pay for PetaKiaRose's plan I'm against the idea.

tham, missminni didn't bill accept petkiarose's plan when he said "Give me your proposal." Sounded to me like a cautious "yes" with a healthy dose of scepticism. I hope I am right.
But what about the legal problems if a paramedic in training administers IVs to a patient without his doctor's consent?

One would have to throw caution to the winds at this
stage. Being cautious and then Bill dies would be
self-defeating in the end.

Hang his doctors, they are not going to help, let alone
come and drip the vit C for him. I am sure Kurt Ebrahim
- an oncologist trained to give poisons like methotrexate,
cyclophosphamide (just mustard gas in another form),
mechlorethamine (nitrogen mustard itself), lomustine/
carmustine (mustard derivatives), doxorubucin, vincristine/
vinblastine/vindesine (periwinkle alkaloids), procarbazine
and bleomycin - thinks that vitamin C for cancer is rubbish.

The aim of oncology is after all, to try to poison the cancer
before they poison the patient - hopefully.

As for the legal issues, that can be taken care of by Bill
signing a waiver of liability. No point dilly-dallying over
the technicalities when the patient's clock is ticking away.

[kismet]

Bill is on his deathbed. If a paramedic tries to save his life do you think there
will be a problem with that? And if there is a concern that such issue might arise, Bill can sign a waiver of liability.
I hope this is not going to become the new argument that wastes yet more precious time ....instead of just getting PetakiaRose out there.

I don't know. Administering treatment most probably unproven by FDA standards in a hospital without any doctor's consent just sounds like it could lead to huge liability issues (great if a waiver of liability solves them), but if PetaKiaRose is aware of all the problems and wants to get on with the plan it's fine. Personally I would too.
You sound a little embittered as if I, or any other people trying to help, were trying to waste time to begin with, on the contrary I don't think our discussion will do any harm or waste anyone's time, but it could prevent a rude awakening.