27 replies to this topic

[Eugene]

Age - 21
Weight 185
Height 6"

For a long time i had no clue about proper diet and working out techniques so i will start counting from 1 year ago when i educated myself and joined a gym next to my house.

First month or two i had good gains but then they almost stopped. I had been stuck on the same weight/muscle mass ever since. I do not understand what the problem is!!!

For example i can flat bench 155 lbs about 8-10 times and was stuck there forever.

I sit on preacher curl and put on 25s on each side and still put on 25s...

I do about 3 exercises per muscle. 10-4 reps per exercise.

For example my chest would consist of flat, inclined and flies 3 sets each.

There were times when i got lazy with the gym and diet and all my gains went to hell and then got back to that same fitness level and was stuck again.

I did notice tho that i rarely add additional weight on next work outs. I just seem to put on the same thing. Also i never really got my diet straight. I eat 100-200 g of protein a day on good days with complex carbs like buck wheat and oatmeal. But often slack of due to by going out habits. So my diet ranges in quality significantly.

Also i keep switching between thinking i need to bulk and thinking i need to cut which evens out to me staying about the same weight.

HELP!!!

Could it be a health issue? Like maybe sleep apnea or something?

Thanks!

[Shepard]

I did notice tho that i rarely add additional weight on next work outs.

Also i keep switching between thinking i need to bulk and thinking i need to cut which evens out to me staying about the same weight.

These two sound like your main problems. Start over with a solid program like Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe and go from there.

Edited by Shepard, 20 June 2009 - 12:32 PM.

[nootrope]

Sometimes you just need to change your routine to improve. Use different machines, or use free weights when you used machines, or assisted dip, emphasize different muscles, etc. Change the number of repetitions. I wouldn't neglect exercises that work the lower body, like squats and leg presses.

[RighteousReason]

remember, you can never under-train

[Eugene]

remember, you can never under-train

What do you mean?

[spacetime]

A number of factors could be involved. Have you upped your caloric intake to support additional mass and energy expenditure? Simply put, you should try eating more and see if start gaining again. It appears you lifting program is a bit haphazard. You could start off with the basic 5x5 program, exercising each bodypart twice per week. Choose one exercise per bodypart and try for 70-85% of 1RM.

[Athanasios]

I just want to second Shepard's advice. There are many paths that look like shortcuts but in the end are not. This is a well studied and experimented area, and the author of the book knows his stuff, from beginner to pro athlete training. It is worth the investment in time and money, IMO.

[seekonk]

Age - 21
Weight 185
Height 6"

Your weight is actually very good for your height, assuming your fat percentage is lowish. This is a typical MMA height-weight statistic (post-cut though), and those guys are in great shape.

Having said that, the short answer is that isolation exercises (curls, etc.) are not that good for gains. Try concentrating on multiple-muscle power exercises for a bit - squats, deadlifts, pull-ups, and so on. Like always, build these up gradually. Otherwise you can really injure yourself badly.

Eat enough, but I am skeptical of "bulking/cutting", which I think is likely bad for your long-term health. I don't think people who allow their bodyfat percentage to get too high, even if just temporarily, are doing themselves any favours. If you have low bodyfat, keep it that way, because those fat cells will just make your life extremely hard in the future - you will never be free of their influence again, since they quite literally will take over your mind.

Edited by seekonk, 22 June 2009 - 07:59 PM.

[RighteousReason]

remember, you can never under-train

What do you mean?

I do about 3 exercises per muscle. 10-4 reps per exercise.

Do 6 exercises per muscle. Or do three that isolate that muscle and three exercises that make heavy use of that muscle, but not in isolation.

For example do back and biceps on the same day- 3 sets of pull ups, 3 sets of curls, then some other exercises utilizing both your biceps and back.

Your solution is to mix things up and add more exercises. If you keep doing the same thing your body will get used to it. Also if you do only a few sets per session on the muscle its not going to really stimulate all of the muscle, you need to really dig deep down in there, attack it from all angles, and tear that thing up.

another example:

Three different kinds of curl to "attack from all angles"

http://www.exrx.net/...eps/DBCurl.html
http://www.exrx.net/...eacherCurl.html
http://www.exrx.net/...HammerCurl.html

Edited by RighteousReason, 23 June 2009 - 12:45 PM.

[RighteousReason]

remember, you can never under-train

What do you mean?

I do about 3 exercises per muscle. 10-4 reps per exercise.

Do 6 exercises per muscle. Or do three that isolate that muscle and three exercises that make heavy use of that muscle, but not in isolation.

For example do back and biceps on the same day- 3 sets of pull ups, 3 sets of curls, then some other exercises utilizing both your biceps and back.

Your solution is to mix things up and add more exercises. If you keep doing the same thing your body will get used to it. Also if you do only a few sets per session on the muscle its not going to really stimulate all of the muscle, you need to really dig deep down in there, attack it from all angles, and tear that thing up.

another example:

Three different kinds of curl to "attack from all angles"

http://www.exrx.net/...eps/DBCurl.html
http://www.exrx.net/...eacherCurl.html
http://www.exrx.net/...HammerCurl.html

Sorry about that, it just occurred to me that I meant "you can never OVER-train". whoops.

[RighteousReason]

remember, you can never under-train

What do you mean?

I do about 3 exercises per muscle. 10-4 reps per exercise.

Do 6 exercises per muscle. Or do three that isolate that muscle and three exercises that make heavy use of that muscle, but not in isolation.

For example do back and biceps on the same day- 3 sets of pull ups, 3 sets of curls, then some other exercises utilizing both your biceps and back.

Your solution is to mix things up and add more exercises. If you keep doing the same thing your body will get used to it. Also if you do only a few sets per session on the muscle its not going to really stimulate all of the muscle, you need to really dig deep down in there, attack it from all angles, and tear that thing up.

another example:

Three different kinds of curl to "attack from all angles"

http://www.exrx.net/...eps/DBCurl.html
http://www.exrx.net/...eacherCurl.html
http://www.exrx.net/...HammerCurl.html

I did all of those today, in total about 7-8 different exercises, all of them working the bicep.

pull ups, lat pull downs, bicep row machine, another pull down machine that hits back/bis, plus the three above, and the bicep machine. the only thing more that I should have done was supersets on the biceps- doing many repetitions of low weight at the very end.

[Shepard]

Yes, it is certainly difficult to overtrain when your bicep training takes high priority in your lifting schedule.

[Athanasios]

Yes, it is certainly difficult to overtrain when your bicep training takes high priority in your lifting schedule.

Zing.

But seriously, overtraining does happen and sometimes it aint pretty

[platypus]

Are three sets really better than just two with a slightly heavier weight? Two is convenient in the sense that it saves time and enables one maybe to add an extra exercise..

[RighteousReason]

Go to the forums on bodybuilding.com they have many threads where people talk about not being able to make any gains and you can read some interesting stuff. Generally you are either not eating enough or not training hard enough.

[seekonk]

Sorry about that, it just occurred to me that I meant "you can never OVER-train". whoops.

What do you mean by this?

Edited by seekonk, 24 June 2009 - 02:30 PM.

[RighteousReason]

Sorry about that, it just occurred to me that I meant "you can never OVER-train". whoops.

What do you mean by this?

do more exercises

Edited by RighteousReason, 24 June 2009 - 04:05 PM.

[seekonk]

Sorry about that, it just occurred to me that I meant "you can never OVER-train". whoops.

What do you mean by this?

do more exercises

That makes no sense to me. Overtrained people are by definition training too much.

Edited by seekonk, 24 June 2009 - 04:59 PM.

[RighteousReason]

Sorry about that, it just occurred to me that I meant "you can never OVER-train". whoops.

What do you mean by this?

do more exercises

That makes no sense to me. Overtrained people are by definition training too much.

oh boy. i don't think the problem is with your muscles ... WHOOSH...

[DREXX]

remember, you can never under-train

What do you mean?

I do about 3 exercises per muscle. 10-4 reps per exercise.

Do 6 exercises per muscle. Or do three that isolate that muscle and three exercises that make heavy use of that muscle, but not in isolation.

For example do back and biceps on the same day- 3 sets of pull ups, 3 sets of curls, then some other exercises utilizing both your biceps and back.

Your solution is to mix things up and add more exercises. If you keep doing the same thing your body will get used to it. Also if you do only a few sets per session on the muscle its not going to really stimulate all of the muscle, you need to really dig deep down in there, attack it from all angles, and tear that thing up.

another example:

Three different kinds of curl to "attack from all angles"

http://www.exrx.net/...eps/DBCurl.html
http://www.exrx.net/...eacherCurl.html
http://www.exrx.net/...HammerCurl.html

Sorry about that, it just occurred to me that I meant "you can never OVER-train". whoops.

I liked it better when you said that you can never under-train...lol

A friend used to say you can never overtrain, just under-eat. He was an idiot!

You don't need a lot of exercises or sets to gain muscle but you do need a lot of intensity and consistency.



The original poster should look at the book that was recommended or read up on Dorian Yates and his style of training.

[niner]

I was stuck on a plateau for ages, literally years. Then I stopped taking antioxidants on days that I lift. Bingo. I got stronger. There was a whole thread on this recently. If you are taking C, E, Lipoic acid, or other antioxidants, try giving them a rest around lifting.

[RighteousReason]

A friend used to say you can never overtrain, just under-eat.

There ya go, nailed it.

He was an idiot!

That doesn't mean he didn't have a great quote. Just be sensible about it. You don't want to literally overtrain

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Overtraining

Edited by RighteousReason, 25 June 2009 - 12:27 PM.

[RighteousReason]

I was stuck on a plateau for ages, literally years. Then I stopped taking antioxidants on days that I lift. Bingo. I got stronger. There was a whole thread on this recently. If you are taking C, E, Lipoic acid, or other antioxidants, try giving them a rest around lifting.

Is anyone aware of studies that show this?

-- I meant the point about getting stronger and more gains with no antioxidants.

Edited by RighteousReason, 25 June 2009 - 12:20 PM.

[seekonk]

Sorry about that, it just occurred to me that I meant "you can never OVER-train". whoops.

What do you mean by this?

do more exercises

That makes no sense to me. Overtrained people are by definition training too much.

oh boy. i don't think the problem is with your muscles ... WHOOSH...

Why don't you stop being an idiot for a moment? Parroting idiotic maxims like "you can never overtrain", which are patently false when taken literally, from wherever you copied this from, and then being an ass when asked to provide clarification, does not help those who are asking for help and are most likely unaware of the context in which it might have had some meaning.

Edited by seekonk, 25 June 2009 - 01:00 PM.

[Shepard]

I meant "you can never OVER-train".

You don't want to literally overtrain

Uh, what?

The Wiki article seems to be confused a little between the differences of overreaching and what is classically considered overtraining in athletes (similar to Selye's Exhaustion stage of GAS). Overreaching is bound to happen at some point, but most people don't have the balls to ever hit true overtraining. That said, real athletes are crazy and it is a concern for them. The average gym-goer without psychosis shouldn't worry about it.

Re: antioxidants that interfere with signaling....While they may be better to avoid around normal exercise, they actually help to delay systemic overtraining if Smith's cytokine hypothesis of overtraining is correct.

[seekonk]

Overreaching is bound to happen at some point, but most people don't have the balls to ever hit true overtraining. That said, real athletes are crazy and it is a concern for them. The average gym-goer without psychosis shouldn't worry about it.

I never understood this claim. I think it is obvious that athletes, who are in top condition and have an optimal diet, need to work very hard at it to reach the point of overtraining, because they are in top condition and have optimal diet. Why would recreational bodybuilders, who are not in top condition and often do not have an optimal diet (and in fact are often chronically restricting calories while chronically pushing themselves), have to work objectively as hard at it to overtrain? Relative to their conditioning they may be working as hard or maybe even harder?

Edited by seekonk, 25 June 2009 - 01:38 PM.

[Shepard]

"The average gym-goer without psychosis shouldn't worry about it."

Bodybuilders do not fit into the above category. As competitors, they have to deal with the same psychological drive as people that play real sports. If it's some kid that calls himself a bodybuilder and hates the image in the mirror, then he still doesn't fit into the above category.

Still, different types of training elicit differing effects on the body. Due to their style of training, most bodybuilders have the luxury of being largely limited to localized overtraining and not general overtraining. When a program includes GPP, SPP, strength work, power work, agility work, mobility work, and skill work, then it's time to worry about general overtraining.

However, when it comes close to stage time and bodyfat levels drop below 5%, they are essentially overreaching just by walking around. At that point, you certainly have to worry about systemic issues.

Edited by Shepard, 25 June 2009 - 01:59 PM.

[TianZi]

Age - 21
Weight 185
Height 6"

For a long time i had no clue about proper diet and working out techniques so i will start counting from 1 year ago when i educated myself and joined a gym next to my house.

First month or two i had good gains but then they almost stopped. I had been stuck on the same weight/muscle mass ever since. I do not understand what the problem is!!!

For example i can flat bench 155 lbs about 8-10 times and was stuck there forever.

I sit on preacher curl and put on 25s on each side and still put on 25s...

I do about 3 exercises per muscle. 10-4 reps per exercise.

For example my chest would consist of flat, inclined and flies 3 sets each.

There were times when i got lazy with the gym and diet and all my gains went to hell and then got back to that same fitness level and was stuck again.

I did notice tho that i rarely add additional weight on next work outs. I just seem to put on the same thing. Also i never really got my diet straight. I eat 100-200 g of protein a day on good days with complex carbs like buck wheat and oatmeal. But often slack of due to by going out habits. So my diet ranges in quality significantly.

Also i keep switching between thinking i need to bulk and thinking i need to cut which evens out to me staying about the same weight.

HELP!!!

Could it be a health issue? Like maybe sleep apnea or something?

Thanks!

"Showing up" may be half the battle, but it's not enough to make fitness gains past the first couple of months, as you experienced. It may be you are not training with sufficient intensity each workout. My recommendation would be to seek out a work-out partner who is very fit and knowledgeable about exercise, and who will encourage you to break through each plateau without seriously injuring you in the process.

Or it could be something else entirely. If you are a teenager and naturally skinny, it could be that due to an elevated metabolism you aren't getting enough calories to add mass. If you are an ectomorph, you are genetically disadvantaged, although this can be overcome, and you have the advantage of being naturally leaner than others.

It also sounds as though you do not work-out on a regular, firm schedule, and if so you shouldn't expect to progress. As a raw novice, you are probably best off doing 1 or 2 exercises per muscle to failure, twice a week, with several days rest between each. Do cardiovascular training on three of the days you don't strength train.

Try to always perform better on each exercise than you did last time. If you have trouble remembering exactly what you did, keep a log. Again, going through the motions alone isn't enough.

And yes, the above does require embracing pain, to an extent.