78 replies to this topic

[kenny001]

it often makes me dazzling, i think the squats are not good for me, i like jogging, maybe it is the good way for us.

[dustinw]

Insightful post kenny, as usual.

[kenny001]

i think it is neccessary, for me, i do a lot of squats, it help me reduce the belly and others' size. also help me keep healthy. I love it.

[Sillewater]

I'd say its necessary. You don't want to be the guy in the back.

[mikeinnaples]

I'd say its necessary. You don't want to be the guy in the back.

Finally going to weigh in here. Ass-to-grass is complete and total bullshit and it is absolutely not neccessary to go down as far as the girl is doing (or further). I achieve great results without going down that far and stopping once my legs flex to 90*. Of course, I focus on functional strength and not size ....so what do I know.

Edited by mikeinnaples, 20 December 2010 - 02:05 PM.

[sapentia]

I'd say its necessary. You don't want to be the guy in the back.

Finally going to weigh in here. Ass-to-grass is complete and total bullshit and it is absolutely not neccessary to go down as far as the girl is doing (or further). I achieve great results without going down that far and stopping once my legs flex to 90*. Of course, I focus on functional strength and not size ....so what do I know.

I agree with you about the ass to grass; however, the girl isn't going going ass to grass. She is barely getting below parallel; it appears she is going lower because she is dropping her back too much which shows unbalanced form likely due to using too heavy of a weight. The guy in the background is an idiot. He is doing a half squat with a weight (not even heavy) meant to satisfy his ego. Proper form is everything with squats and deadlifts (all exercises actually). If you can't do a weight with proper form then drop until you can even if that means a stripped down bar.

[mikeinnaples]

I agree with you about the ass to grass; however, the girl isn't going going ass to grass. She is barely getting below parallel;

She is going quite a ways beyond 90* if you focus on her legs only. Yeah, not exactly ass to grass, but she is flexed way more than needed if you look at her legs.

[Sillewater]

Her femur isn't going that far past 90 degrees. In competition the angle between your hip and abdomen need to just pass the knee. Now I agree with you that squatting below parallel isn't for everyone (especially those with a lack of hip mobility). Everyone has a breaking point in the lumbar spine. This is the best judge of how far you should be going down in the squat. One your lumbar becomes flexed the shear stress will tear you discs apart. So you have to be concious of that. In the video you can see that at no point her lumbar spine bulges out. She has great technique and hip mobilitiy.

Another point is the knees. Your knees are strongest when flexed and weakest in the 90 degrees position. By stopping at 90 degrees you are putting a heck of a lot of stress on the knees.

[shp5]

Another point is the knees. Your knees are strongest when flexed and weakest in the 90 degrees position. By stopping at 90 degrees you are putting a heck of a lot of stress on the knees.

which shouldn't be bad as long as you have no knee problems. i think it is extremely important to have a good alignment in the leg (foot arch, no varus/valgus) and wouldn't increase weights if the alignment can't be held. I'm not talking about competitive weight lifting though...

I'm also a friend of the ass to the grass version. You should be strong everywhere in the range of your joints.

I see the problem of lumbar kyphosis though. Doing squats with feet planted wide apart makes it easier to hold a good position of the spine. I don't know how dangerous a mild kyphosis is if erector spinae is activated and does the work, though.

Edited by shp5, 26 December 2010 - 07:57 PM.

[RighteousReason]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTbf0rOoMLg


I'd say its necessary. You don't want to be the guy in the back.

there was a guy in the back??















Know how I know you're gay... ? :p

Edited by RighteousReason, 27 December 2010 - 01:48 AM.

[dlima]

I see the problem of lumbar kyphosis though. Doing squats with feet planted wide apart makes it easier to hold a good position of the spine. I don't know how dangerous a mild kyphosis is if erector spinae is activated and does the work, though.

It'd be foolish to let the spine slip out of a neutral position when supporting exogenous weight. Go down to the low point just before the hips automatically tuck. With strengthening at your lowest angle and other mobility exercises, increased dynamic flexibility typically comes. If, however, you're working with just your body, get low.

[icyT]

"Necessary" is not a concept that can exist in a void. Necessary for what? Deep squats are a great movement for health, mobility and building muscle. They are not, however, necessary to build muscle with progressive leg exercises (you can do it using partials, leg presses or even extensions).

I think deep squats are a feat we should aim for, but ultimately what is 'necessary' for you to do depends on your aims OP.

[Boolean]

I tried ass to grass squats for about 2 months until my knees started creaking and cracking. I've been back to 90 degree ever since. My knees are fine and my legs are big.

Obviously this isn't going to be the case for everybody. My personal experience with deep squats is that my knees hate it... I can only assume that it would be similar for MOST casual lifters.

edit: the guy in the back is doing like a 150 degree squat. sad... so sad.

Edited by Boolean, 08 September 2011 - 03:24 PM.

[icyT]

Mark Rippetoe's view is that if the squat isn't deep enough you wont get enough hamstring activation and you will be increasing the stress on a certain part of the knee joint.

I don't agree with this. While the deeper hip-hinging required to go deeper stretches the glutes more, I'm not sure about the hamstrings.

Reason being: the hamstrings get shortened on the other end by the deeper knee flexion. Especially the short head of the biceps femoris which isn't even a hip extensor and isn't stretched by hip flexion.

Furthermore, regardless of how deep we're squatting, we always pass through the upper portion, which means we'd be getting that 'stress'.

[zorba990]

IMHO most people don't engage the hip flexors. If you do you will hit a natural stopping point quite a bit below where the guy in back is going. Probably not quite as low as the girl in front for most guys though. Generally parallel or slightly higher seems to do it for me. If your a$$ isn't sore you are not doing it right...

[Boolean]

Some good videos to watch on how you should be squatting, what muscles should be working, and where you should be engaging are "Training with Kai Greene". What's neat is that you can actually see the muscles you should be engaging because his are... well... freakishly big.

And yes... you should for sure be engaging your glutes on a squat. People think it's just a quad exercise... WRONG.

[Lufega]

I've never been able to do deep squats but I feel that parallel squats were not activating the quads enough. I tried a few "stretches" from mobilitywod.com, especially this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBHzXF-mVjY

Today, I was able to do deep squats with much ease. It was pretty astounding. Even last night when I tried deep body squats before and after doing the stretch, the improvement was obvious. Given that we spend most of our time sitting down or lounging about, I think the issue might be related to mobility and hip flexibility. You guys should really check out this blog and try out a few of the moves.

Edited by Lufega, 01 March 2012 - 01:13 AM.

[Shepard]

Kelly knows his stuff. His seminars are reasonably priced, also.

[nowayout]

Some famous trainers question the need for squats altogether. One of them is Mike Boyle.

Mike Boyle: No more squats:

http://strengthcoach...no-more-squats/