16 replies to this topic

[Reno]

This is a completely fictional.

Most of us have probably watched the film Alien or one of it's sequels. Here is a question someone threw at me the other day. What type of evolutionary path would give rise to a creature like the alien?

The alien itself is a 4 stage creature. There is the queen which lays the eggs, egg which holds the face hugger, the face hugger which once the egg is disturbed hunts down prey and impregnates the prey with the warrior alien, and the warrior alien which is born to serve the colony and or preform tasks for the queen. All stages of the alien have molecular acid for blood which acts as a defense mechanism against would be predators or prey. The aliens evolve to better suit their environment through the facehugger stage. During the process of impregnation the facehugger incorporates traits from the victim into the new offspring.

Edited by Reno, 13 August 2010 - 01:49 AM.

[rwac]

All stages of the alien have molecular acid for blood which acts as a defense mechanism against would be predators or prey.

That's an interesting question. As apex predator, what would the alien need protection against ?

The aliens evolve to better suit their environment through the facehugger stage. During the process of impregnation the facehugger incorporates traits from the victim into the new offspring.

Somehow all life across the galaxy has enough traits in common to allow it to serve as hosts ...

[Reno]

Some would say humans are apex predators.

[rwac]

Some would say humans are apex predators.

Right, and we don't have defensive adapations, because we don't need them.

[Reno]

Some would say humans are apex predators.

Right, and we don't have defensive adapations, because we don't need them.

Well, there were a handful of times the aliens used their blood to create a path during the hunt. The face huggers also have the acid blood, which I imagine would serve to protect against premature removal. That really doesn't describe how that trait might have evolved, but it describes how it could be useful to a predator.

Edited by Reno, 13 August 2010 - 05:25 AM.

[rwac]

Well, there were a handful of times the aliens used their blood to create a path during the hunt.

Not sure which movie you're talking about here.

The face huggers also have the acid blood, which I imagine would serve to protect against premature removal.

For this to be useful, they need to have co-evolved with a (probably Intelligent) species capable of removing the huggers. Unless of course, it is just an extension of having acid blood as an adult.

[chris w]

Some would say humans are apex predators.

Right, and we don't have defensive adapations, because we don't need them.

That really doesn't describe how that trait might have evolved, but it describes how it could be useful to a predator.

I may remember it bluntly but in Nostromo don't they actually find the first eggs in something that is a crashed ship made by some other alien race that we don't learn anything about ? The scene where there is some really big corpse in front of something like a steering interface, and the body has a hole in the abdomen. This may suggest that the aliens were themsleves created, not evolved and something went wrong for the makers. IIRC

Interesting question nonetheless. Some time ago I thought about something similar only with the Predator. In couple of scenes you can see the world through the guy's eyes and it turns out that his vision mode is centered on levels of heat and ok, it seems pretty practical for a race of hunters. But in this case how did they actually manage to build all these advanced weapons, not to mention space ships ? Basically they're very agile humanoids with physical perception near an insect.

Edited by chris w, 13 August 2010 - 01:48 PM.

[Reno]

In the third one there are three aliens held in a cage together by the military. To escape two aliens kill the third to make a hole in their cage. In the first movie they tried to cut the headhugger off the first attacked fellow just to find out about the blood. If I had to guess the blood being acid is probably a side effect of whatever planet they originally came from. If there was a high acid atmosphere it would just seem natural that they would have acid for blood. Maybe it helps them grow the hard skin.

[valkyrie_ice]

Another thing to note. The "warrior drone" is capable of evolving into a queen. Per the first movie novelization, Ripley discovered the "nest" to which the warrior had been taking the captives, and found new "eggs". It seems likely then that the "warrior" was already a "juvenile queen" that Ripley killed prior to it's growth stage to egg factory. Had she not self destructed the Nostromo, there would soon have been several more "warriors" around.


Considering the "stealth" tactics of the "facehugger" stage, it seems likely the acid blood is a defense mechanism in the "facehugger" stage, similar to the various "taste bad/poison" animals and insects. However, it also seems to be an offensive weapon, because remember it used that acid to melt THROUGH the helmet to the humans actual face, and then provided him the necessary life support to survive in a vacuum with a melted open helmet.


Considering the complexity of adaptive skills needed to do such a task, and the overall similarity of the alien ships construction to the biomaterial the aliens use to line their colony walls, it seems likely that the aliens are a bioengineered lifeform, in which the "eggs" were likely to be scattered around a "target" so that they could eliminate intelligent lifeforms, which they seem to have a preference for, as Jonesy the cat in the first movie was completely ignored on several occasions, and the "dog aliens" in 3 seemed to more or less be a target of last resort, as they produced more limited "warriors".


It thus seems likely that the species could have been created as a "planetary invasion" weapon, intended by it's creators to be used to exterminate native intelligences. I would think based on current situations, that the originating species was probably in conflict with the Predators, possibly creating the aliens as a weapon against them, but which was just as dangerous to their creators, (witness the ship in the first movie). In all likelihood, the originators have fallen to their own creation, while the Predators now use the alien bioweapon as a ritual enemy, fully aware that if it escapes control it is designed to be a planet killer.


Fortunately, the alien is only semi intelligent, seemingly about equal to a bright monkey, and cannot seem to comprehend technological tools beyond simple buttons. It is capable of learning by observation, and reasoning at a primate level, but not of operating complex technology. This is fortunate, because if they were capable of using Predator spacecraft, or those of their originators, they would be impossible to contain, and would have likely wiped out all life in the Milkyway, including Earth. Considering the apparent age of both the predator society and the aliens, had the Predators not "nuked Atlantis" human society would never have existed.


One question that has yet to be answered is what the aliens "eat", as they do not eat the captives and kill only as a matter of self defense. Analysis of the "resin" they use to imprison captives has yet to been done in the movies, but considering their blood, the toughness of their "hide" and the structural integrity of the resin structures (remember the original ship appears made from the same material) I strongly suspect extensive use of carbon and silicon. (remember, it's flesh has to have such strong atomic bonds that it can be impervious to it's own blood. Not to mention the monowire mesh net which could dice a human and slice right through a steel knife was barely capable of penetrating the Alien's skin in AVP.)


Based on all these considerations, I have strong doubts that the alien can be a naturally evolved species, and can only conclude they are an engineered bioweapon.


*giggle* I love speculative fiction!

[chris w]

Considering the complexity of adaptive skills needed to do such a task, and the overall similarity of the alien ships construction to the biomaterial the aliens use to line their colony walls, it seems likely that the aliens are a bioengineered lifeform, in which the "eggs" were likely to be scattered around a "target" so that they could eliminate intelligent lifeforms

Exactly that, Xenopedia :

The Pilot is more popularly known as the "Space Jockey", which is what Alien director Ridley Scott refers to the species as in the director commentary for Alien.

The derelict ship contains several thousand Alien eggs. It is suggested by Ridley Scott in the director commentary to the film that the Space Jockey's ship was an "aircraft carrier or battlewagon of a civilization, and the eggs were a cargo which were essentially weapons.

Have you been cheating Val ?

[valkyrie_ice]

Considering the complexity of adaptive skills needed to do such a task, and the overall similarity of the alien ships construction to the biomaterial the aliens use to line their colony walls, it seems likely that the aliens are a bioengineered lifeform, in which the "eggs" were likely to be scattered around a "target" so that they could eliminate intelligent lifeforms

Exactly that, Xenopedia :

The Pilot is more popularly known as the "Space Jockey", which is what Alien director Ridley Scott refers to the species as in the director commentary for Alien.

The derelict ship contains several thousand Alien eggs. It is suggested by Ridley Scott in the director commentary to the film that the Space Jockey's ship was an "aircraft carrier or battlewagon of a civilization, and the eggs were a cargo which were essentially weapons.

Have you been cheating Val ?

*giggle* actually no. I'd never heard of Xenopedia.

[Reno]

I could see the creature being bio engineered, but if it was a bioweapon, why would the original alien ship be sending out a warning message. Most of the time military ships self destruct to prevent anything from finding their secrets. If it was just a random cargo ship it might not have a self-destruct. It makes sense just a random alien cargo ship was taken by surprise by the aliens and crashlanded before he died. That would explain why his ship was full of eggs. If the aliens had took over his ship they would have cocooned him and planted eggs in the warm places nearby. That would also explain all the aliens architecture around his ship. They would have made the place he was held captive in a nest..

I just watched alien yesterday, and I didn't see any eggs. I saw it taking out the crew one by one. It would kill them as any of them came into the engineering or tunneling sections. If it was laying eggs it would have stayed near its nest and the surrounding area. It wouldn't have hobbled over to the escape pod ship to chill with Ripley.

The only time any eggs were laid were in the second and forth movie. In the second movie the terraforming colonists found the ship and the eggs. At that point the aliens captured colonist and left them in the egg chamber to get impregnated by a queen. More eggs soon followed. The second queen came in Aliens Resurrection when the cloned Ripley and her queen from blood taken while she was on the prison planet in aliens 3. They made a big deal out of saying she was impregnated with a queen in Aliens 3, so they could have the queen cloned in resurrection.

Edited by Reno, 14 August 2010 - 10:14 PM.

[valkyrie_ice]

I could see the creature being bio engineered, but if it was a bioweapon, why would the original alien ship be sending out a warning message. Most of the time military ships self destruct to prevent anything from finding their secrets. If it was just a random cargo ship it might not have a self-destruct. It makes sense just a random alien cargo ship was taken by surprise by the aliens and crashlanded before he died. That would explain why his ship was full of eggs. If the aliens had took over his ship they would have cocooned him and planted eggs in the warm places nearby. That would also explain all the aliens architecture around his ship. They would have made the place he was held captive in a nest..

I just watched alien yesterday, and I didn't see any eggs. I saw it taking out the crew one by one. It would kill them as any of them came into the engineering or tunneling sections. If it was laying eggs it would have stayed near its nest and the surrounding area. It wouldn't have hobbled over to the escape pod ship to chill with Ripley.

The only time any eggs were laid were in the second and forth movie. In the second movie the terraforming colonists found the ship and the eggs. At that point the aliens captured colonist and left them in the egg chamber to get impregnated by a queen. More eggs soon followed. The second queen came in Aliens Resurrection when the cloned Ripley and her queen from blood taken while she was on the prison planet in aliens 3. They made a big deal out of saying she was impregnated with a queen in Aliens 3, so they could have the queen cloned in resurrection.

The eggs were in the novelization, which was apparently from a earlier script than the movie. I think the ship was not a military vessel as well, but one which could have been infected as the "pilot" obviously died from a chestburster. However the ships EXTERNAL design is still very similar to the Xenomorphs "burrows" which leads the to possibility that they share origins. (beyond the fact that they are all designed by HR Geiger.)


I did read the Xeno link above, and it covers the bioweapon angle in detail.

[Reno]

Giger is one of my favorite artists. His scenery design alone blows my mind. He says most of his work is influenced from night terrors.

[Kolos]

In the third one there are three aliens held in a cage together by the military. To escape two aliens kill the third to make a hole in their cage.

I believe it was the 4th one in 3 there was only one alien (again).

I may remember it bluntly but in Nostromo don't they actually find the first eggs in something that is a crashed ship made by some other alien race that we don't learn anything about ? The scene where there is some really big corpse in front of something like a steering interface, and the body has a hole in the abdomen. This may suggest that the aliens were themsleves created, not evolved and something went wrong for the makers. IIRC

Interesting question nonetheless. Some time ago I thought about something similar only with the Predator. In couple of scenes you can see the world through the guy's eyes and it turns out that his vision mode is centered on levels of heat and ok, it seems pretty practical for a race of hunters. But in this case how did they actually manage to build all these advanced weapons, not to mention space ships ? Basically they're very agile humanoids with physical perception near an insect.

Actually both "Aliens" and Predators seem to be modeled on insects. Aliens seem to be very similar to ants(or bees), they have queens that lay eggs also this parasitic way of reproduction with different stages is quite characteristic for insects. in the books the alien home world was even described as having giant hives and they don't have visible eyes on the other hand they also share some similarities with monkeys like 4 limbs and a tail, they are also quite intelligent.

[chris w]

Giger is one of my favorite artists. His scenery design alone blows my mind. He says most of his work is influenced from night terrors.

I like him too but some of his paintings seem a bit "overdone", like he thought sometimes "Yeah, this is good but I'll put another dark penis here and here".

[Reno]

Giger is one of my favorite artists. His scenery design alone blows my mind. He says most of his work is influenced from night terrors.

I like him too but some of his paintings seem a bit "overdone", like he thought sometimes "Yeah, this is good but I'll put another dark penis here and here".

Yeah well, we're all sexual beings. I did say scenery design. His figure paintings do tend to have that problem.