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Another SMI2LE.BIZ horror story


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#511 nootropi

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 05:25 AM

Whew, after your nice behavior (saying anything positive about fast400) I was afraid you had been posessed or that an imposter was posting under your ID.  Glad to know that wasn't true and that you're safe.


Jeez, I never any problem with 1fast400 other than the fact that he is selling Chinese powders without offering those ingesting what could lead to the deaths of members here some sort of method of verifying their safety.

For products sold by vendors liable for deaths of those ingesting them (i.e. Now! Foods, etc), I am all for 1fast (only because of LOW prices and acceptable customer service). :) He knows that. :)

Let me recall (for) you: this is THE IMMORTALITY INSTITUTE! We hold our lives as the highest value. At least you are a FULL member, so hats off to you for paying your dues.

Don't worry, Scottl. We still like you even if you are not an MD. Just don't diss on poor rizzer. He is one of us, and everyone here knows that much.

#512 eternaltraveler

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 06:31 AM

Lets take a look at what nootropi was saying on page 3 of this thread.

(Nootropi)

I will say what I please, like it or not, elrond.

I am sick and tired of some of the nonsense you are engaging in here. No offense, but that is what it is: nonsense; and you are among those infecting this forum by propogating and further supporting this trivial type of discourse. Do you really feel the need to persist with this type of circular logic or can it cease? You are among those now polluting this forum with spam. This is not a place to bring your complaints about a service. Please bring these concerns to the attention of the authorities if it is indeed a rational, fact based complaint based on reason.

This issue has been addressed and settled. We need to move on to more pertinent issues.


Respect him. If you do not respect him, he probably won't do business with you.

That is how I see this issue.

Case closed.

Next topic, please!


Please permit this forum to discuss nootropics and not make us each a customer service representative! What a waste of time and intellect!


Take your own advice that you gave before 23 pages of your blatherings. Which are endlessly circular. I thought you agreed to this moratorium? Yet you continue to mention smi2le every two minutes. Do you need us all to sacrifice a goat to smi2le and build a golden image of rizzer before you will let it go? Drop it. Please.

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#513 magr

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 06:57 AM

Just don't diss on poor rizzer. He is one of us, and everyone here knows that much.


Are you serious???

#514 zg00

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 06:58 AM

Well.put elrond

#515 nootropi

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 07:38 AM

Nope, some of you guys are mostly not what I consider intelligent. I am not speaking to you, don't you get it? The intelligent members of this forum don't bother commenting (nor questioning) on what is self-evident.

I am not speaking to you: elrond, magr, nor zg00. Don't bother reading my posts. None of you are my audience, thankfully there is intelligence out there. Maybe one day you might catch on, no one knows for sure though...at this juncture you three do not look (nor act, all you do is talk, and talk is cheap :)) ) too bright to me...keep posting though, it generates more interest in the cosmos...and bumps up that page. Unfortunately, although you are unaware of this: you three are acting as merely fodder for the intelligent. :)

Take care. [thumb]

#516 Mike M

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 04:09 PM

I just have a psycho fan, nothing wrong with that.

Like I said, I have to sit back and laugh at Nootropi, it is all you can do. This is a guy that works as a toy solider at FAO schwartz, how can you not laugh at that?

#517 nootropi

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 04:24 PM

I just have a psycho fan, nothing wrong with that. 

Like I said, I have to sit back and laugh at Nootropi, it is all you can do.  This is a guy that works as a toy solider at FAO schwartz, how can you not laugh at that?


First, I am not your fan. You are an online retailer of nutritional supplements; this is hardly challenging or stimulating (not to mention, for a retailer such as yourself; not too profitable :) ) You are a pawn, (or as you say, a toy soilder) for nutritional supplement providers. You purchase other companies' products and resell them at a marginal profit compared to what they (companies such as Now! foods, etc) earn from your work. At least you work for a living. I admire that much in you.

Call me whatever name you please, if it suits your insecurities; and makes you feel superior to me; laugh all you like, if it makes you feel any better to do so.

However; it is just too bad that you cannot dispute what I have proven (click) here. I work for nobody; yet I ensure the health of many. You make a dollar, and laugh; I make nothing, and smi2le; I won't laugh at you because you are a fool.

Take care, and have a nice (contaminant free) day, I am sure that I will.

#518 dopamine

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 06:13 PM

yet I ensure the health of many


Surely more people buy from 1FAST400 than they do from Smi2le, regardless of which one considers to be the superior company. If we establish as a primary goal the ensuring of health amongst supplement/nootropic ingesters, than certainly we will want to test the products which more people ingest. Consequently, within this framework of selfless transcendence towards the health of many, you should be most eager to test 1FAST400's products than Smi2le's.

Let me address one of the main concerns of yours for testing these products, namely, that you cannot ensure that the product he sends to you is that which he sources from China. While this is a legitimate concern, it presupposes a conspiratorial situation in which he stocks "pure products" for moments which dictate the need for independent, third party lab testing. This, in turn, implies that Mike would know he is selling contaminated products. A much more likely hypothetical situation would be one in which he is either selling products which he does not know to have contaminants, or he is selling products which are free from such chemical intrusions. If we assume the former, then you would be doing the supplement-ingesting community a great deed in exposing a source of contaminated products and therefore help ensure the health and longevity of this group of people. If the latter situation is the case, then the only thing to do would be to do what is done is most scientific communities: admit incorrect presumptions.

Another point you had made about this topic is that though you could not prove (at the time, now of course you can) that 1FAST400's products are contaminated with heavy metals, 1FAST400 on the other hand could not prove that they did not. However, as is a well known rule of logic, one cannot prove a universal negative. The burden of proof is on the person stating the positive existence of any particular thing or governing rule. Of course supplement providers bear a burden to ensure product purity within the realm of consumer-business relations, however they can surely not have omniscient knowledge of all products at all times and there respective chemical constituents. Reasonable measures are taken to ensure that products are pure, such as having products tested once they come in from overseas. However, to expect a company to prove that all products at all times are universally and absolutely free from any ingredient not stated would be an exercise in futility. A company can give a guarantee of that nature, but they cannot give unequivocal proof in a universal way.

Smi2le has brought very good things to the market place, and it is relatively reasonable that you take safety in the fact that you know you can test any of his products at any time and receive store credit in compensation for testing costs. This is surely a good thing. Given the tone of discussion within this and other threads, and in particular your comments towards 1FAST400 with respect to contamination of products, I think that the effort involved in going through the procedure of testing his products would be of a lesser intensity than the energy you have put forth via the written word with respect to this topic.

I know you pride yourself on not caring what other people think of you and not "conforming" to other's expectations. However, this is not a matter of "proving yourself" to others, it is a matter of putting effort towards a cause which you personally have at many times dedicated yourself. If you are really serious about ensuring the quality of supplements and nootropics (which is surely a noble cause) then any reasonable observer would expect that you make your words co-extensive with your actions - a true sign of character and moral solidity. If you truly believe that people ingesting 1FAST400's supplements are endangering their lives, then surely you care enough about their lives to commit to an action which could spare thousands of people from possible contamination. The benefits in this case clearly outweigh the risks - if contaminants are found, you receive a thousand dollar check from Mike. If they are free from contaminants, you still get compensated for the cost of the testing and have (in both cases) done a great service to the supplement ingesting community, which is in continuity with your stated cause and goals concerning this industry. If you refuse, it is difficult to escape the conclusion that you believe the risk of being proved incorrect heavily outweighs the benefit of sharing knowledge about a supplier's products and their purity. The latter case would be disappointing and would enjoin within the millions of those who advocate causes but shirk away from opportunities in which to prove that their words are consistent with their actions. This is unfortunately the vast majority, and I would expect a person of high moral conviction to avoid that mass of inactive and intellectually impotent class of men.

I have tried to be as thorough as possible to avoid miscommunication on this topic. I feel that you would benefit greatly from reading what I have written and contemplating its possible implications for your stated position.

Valeo quod prospicio

#519 jonathan2111

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 06:57 PM

Hi guys

Is Mike Rizzer still going strong?

I've been looking at all these amazing conversations with some interest but for a change nobody seems to be complaining of Mike's delivery system.

The really odd thing seems to be that his website doesn't seem to have changed at all for months. The last order I got from him arrived ok in good condition just after Christmas with extra stuff and I'm *extremely* pleased with it. Isn't he supposed to be getting in some new additions to stock (e.g. racetams such as Pram and Oxy)? (& yes I know there are caveats - but - hey better to burn out than fade away??)

Does he ever send out newsletters? Has anyone spoken to him recently?

Yes I know I can pick up the 'phone and talk to him myself, I just wanted to test what the latest opinion was first, and see if there have been any problems. Mike's product value for money is outstanding but there seems to be a bizarre aura surrounding what he does.

I'm very time poor so don't often get round to looking in this forum. However, I have found that my stack has improved my mental ability, especially imagination, by quite an extraordinary amount (at the moment I am trying to crack some problems thrown up by mixing computer science with fundamental physics and it helps a great deal).

So... I am beginning to look for ways of refining the stack and possibly adding more components. The problem is sourcing components in decent quantities and prices (for import to the United Kingdom). Mike seems to have the best offerings but there's this weirdness about the business and certain things missing that (I think that) I need.

Well, I'll take time to look round the forum and then try to engage a bit more.

Kind regards to you all

Jonathan

[!:)]

#520 erics99

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 09:00 PM

I have ordered from Rizzer twice in the past, about two months ago. Just small orders of around $40. I recieved both orders in about 2 weeks. (I live in the USA). I have ordered bulk powders from 1fast400 several times, and I have also bought other supplements from him over the past couple years. I can't remember a time when I didn't get my order from 1fast400 in about 3 business days. Sometimes even 2 days.

#521 scottl

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 09:31 PM

Johnathan,

I'm curious what you mean by:

Mike's product value for money is outstanding but there seems to be ***a bizarre aura surrounding what he does.***

and


"but there's ***this weirdness*** about the business"


Unless you are referring to one of the people who posts here, I'm at a loss as to what you mean/how you know. Could you give us more info?

#522 stellar

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 11:15 PM

No, ultimatums won't work.  I just wish that 1fast400 and smi2le.biz could source stuff together; and let the consumers choose the better source based on the seller's offers.

The owner of smi2le.biz offered to work with the owner of 1fast400; and according to the owner of smi2le.biz, the owner of 1fast400 DID NOT EVEN REPLY to smi2le's emails.

If they could source items together, it would then only be necessary to test once for both businesses; and each I am sure 1fast400 and smi2le.biz could save money that way too.  The way it looks to me, the owner of 1fast400 may in fact be more interested in his ego as it relates to this market than the market itself.  I could be wrong; but based on his behavior and actions (and how they relate) this appears to be the case.


1FAST400 is not obligated to coordinate business transactions with smi2le. It is his company and he can do whatever he likes. However, in this paragraph you impugn him for not doing so.


I also find it funny that you criticize his "ego", but at the same time your own ego prevents you from taking him up on his offer to test his products (after months of bellyaching from you). He put his money where his mouth is, you scurried away....yet are still saying the same old repetitive crap about the purity of his products. You're not being intellectually honest. What are you scared of? The fact that the purity of his products will finally be realized, and that you won't have anything to criticize 1FAST400 for anymore?

#523 nootropi

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 02:11 AM

Sorry guys, but I am forced to give you a pre-prepared reply (this is getting old):

First, see here

Then go here

When you are done with those, go here as well.

Okay, fine, then Go here.

Take care, and use your noodle. [lol]

edit: I wanted to make sure that everybody knows that my philosophy is not always alligned with Rizzer's. Smi2le (as space migration, intelligence squared, life extension); wow, cool name, not too marketable in my book.

Like, for example; I do not get exited like several of you with his spaceship mumbo jumbo with the cult stuff. Personally, I know (and often laugh about the fact that) that is just Rizzer just trying to make fun of and drawing attention to everybody else's so easily molded perception. I should make clear that the only reason why I support Rizzer as Smi2le.biz is due to the fact that he allows ANY customer (that includes you) to assay his products for store credit.

There are few, if any, besides myself, whom act upon this offer. That saddens me; that so many people in this forum have so much to *say,* yet have no action to quantify their statements. Talk (yes, even in the forum of typing) is cheap. Actions, however, define our reality; after all; you are what you do, not what you say you do. :))

To those of you whom regularly contribute to the discussions here, thank you for your words. Please consider works as well. At least consider supporting this community; become a member here or find it in your pocketbook the decency to give a donation to the Immortality Institute. After all, without the leadership here, several of you would have no place to file your emphatic, animated, and I am sure so justified online complaints about smi2le.biz. :)

Posted Image

Click the image. :)

Edited by nootropi, 22 January 2005 - 07:09 AM.


#524 Mike M

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 01:33 PM

1FAST400 on the other hand could not prove that they did not.


Actually I believe we have a metal assay on any product we carry. If it isn't posted, just ask me, I'll get someone to send you a copy

#525 nootropi

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 06:39 PM

Actually I believe we have a metal assay on any product we carry.  If it isn't posted, just ask me, I'll get someone to send you a copy


"Believe" is not an appropriate word to use when our lives are at risk, okay? Maybe this makes perfect sense to someone of your caliber of integrity; because your actions show that you have little to no quantifiable measure of the capacity of this essential quality (I apologize for being so hard on you, 1fast400, but this is a self-evident fact). Personally, I would never let anyone that I care about to ingest something I "believe[d]" to be safe. I want to know that they are indeed safe; and due to the implications of your actions as they relate to your statements, and those carried out by your business, your bulk CHINESE powders need to be tested by a THIRD PARTY. We KNOW that your supplier has provided you with a false product and a false assay to match. So we have every reason to suspect that that was not an isolated incident. I offered to test your products, and you never replied to that query. Get some other full member here to test your products if you would like; that could be a viable solution.

I want the individual selling me LIFE EXTENSION SUPPLEMENTS to personally devoted to the safety of my loved ones enough to go about taking actions to prove that they are truly concerned about my health -- enough so that they don't outsource the job of the safety of myself and my loved ones "to someone else;" ESPECIALLY if this "someone" works in your business; as anybody working for you I assign a high probablity of low integrity (at least not enough to be trusted with the lives of myself and my loved ones :)) )

You see, 1fast400, we carry a perception diametrically opposed to yours here. Once again: THIS IS THE IMMORTALITY INSTITUTE! We hold our lives as the highest value. Get it? You hold a piece of green paper as your only value. We see right through that, and we treat you as the dollar-blinded fool that you are. A dollar is a piece of paper to us with weight a simple trade value. There are no values inherent in a piece of paper; even if it has a trade value. You live by such pieces of paper; as is evidenced by your agressive marketing here at the Immortality Institute. You are not even a member here; nor have you given a penny out of your pocket to support the leadership of this forum to cover the expenses associated with running this site. You are taking up the bandwidth of the Immortality Institute advertising your nutritional supplement resale business. Can't you do something more, well, "constructive" with your time? :)

Interested in the history of this discussion? Click here.

Then go here

When you are done with those, go here as well.

Okay, fine, then Go here.

Posted Image

Click the image. :)

Edited by nootropi, 22 January 2005 - 07:06 PM.


#526 jokerace

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 07:19 PM

Does anyone have any doubts at this point that Nootropi is absolutely insane?

#527 zg00

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 07:25 PM

Adam, every minute you waste on this diatribe is a minute of your life you'll never get back.

If you truely value your life say it once (which you did ages ago now) and leave off.

#528 nootropi

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 09:15 PM

Adam, every minute you waste on this diatribe is a minute of your life you'll never get back.

If you truely value your life say it once (which you did ages ago now) and leave off.


No! I am not wasting my time. The way to treat a fool who continually engages you (yes, even after he has been proven a fool) is to continue the discussion.

Aristotle:
"It is absurd to hold that a man ought to be ashamed of being unable to defend himself with his limbs, but not of being unable to defend himself with speech and reason (logos), when the use of rational speech is more distinctive of a human being than the use of his limbs."
[Rhetoric I]

Aristotle:
"The man who gets angry at the right things and with the right people, and in the right way and at the right time and for the right length of time, is commended."
[Nichomachean Ethics]

Aristotle:
"A man is the origin of his action."
[Nicomachean Ethics, bk. 3, ch. 3]

And I like this one (because it presents the contradiction :) )
Aristotle::
"If a man were to say he chose something impossible he would be thought a fool; but we can wish for things that are impossible, for instance immortality."
[Nicomachean Ethics]

#529 dopamine

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 09:18 PM

Nootropi - I believe I remember you saying that both of your parents are physicians, meaning that you probably grew up in a household which was extremely well off economically and I am sure they are probably financially supporting you now. My point is that donations and expenses you make on testing products and making donations to websites such as the Immortality Institute are more likely to be a sufficiently less proportion of your total financial holdings than many other people who contribute here. Regardless if this is the case, it is a kind of cultish insinuation to make when you harass people (1FAST400) for not paying any money to openly discuss and contribute to conversations here.

You said that you think more people should test products from smi2le, but I doubt many people buy the quantity of nootropics that you do from that site which would substantiate the store credit received in compensation. It is only people who can afford to do so that should; not everyone in the world has parents who make upwards of six figures a year.

You also said that you had contacted 1FAST400 about testing their products and they didn't respond. Well, now you have a response, so what has changed? I would advise you to re-read the former post I had made to illuminate the glaring hypocrisy which so clearly presents itself in this situation. It can be summarized in one line: if you care about the community of nootropic ingesters, why wouldn't you take the oppourtunity to test 1fast400's products for heavy metals? There is virtually no risk to you, except for having to possibly publicly admit that you were wrong. Does this risk outweight the possible benefit of determining the purity of a product which hundreds of people daily ingest? I think anyone with a morsel of rational thought can put the pieces together pretty easily.


Actually I believe we have a metal assay on any product we carry. If it isn't posted, just ask me, I'll get someone to send you a copy


My point is that Nootropi expected you to do the impossible, that is, to prove the universal negative that every product you carry is absolutely free of contamination. Ensuring product purity, on the other hand, such as giving assay results of products is the reasonable standard for a large company, a standard which 1FAST400 has met. Unless Nootropi can prove that any of your products are contaminated with heavy metals, he cannot say they are just because you cannot do the impossible of proving a universal negative.

#530 Mike M

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 11:05 PM

We have assays on every product, period. He knows that and I know that.

I like having a psycho internet fan, weird, but cool.

#531 nootropi

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 11:16 PM

We have assays on every product, period.  He knows that and I know that.

I like having a psycho internet fan, weird, but cool.


1fast400:

I spend a lot of time on the web researching nootropic and life extension medicine; if anyone needs a "boost" in the brain department, it is you. But I have to enlighten you: I have not found any therapies to remedy foolishness of your magnitude. We only have results from studies on "damaged" subjects and also some results from "normal" volunteers; for foolishness, at least at this juncture, we currently have no remedies.

You need a complete brain transplant and this technology probably will not be available for at least another century. You might want to look into cryonics. [thumb] Right now this technogy is in its early stages, and we are unsure it is effective; and it is also VERY expensive to implement for an entire century. You might want to consider getting into a business that earns you substantial revenues intead of the supplement re-sale buisness. There is no way that your market worth (even if you sold everything you own today) could possibly pay for a one-hundred year freeze (not to mention -- the 'reanimation costs'). You might want to consider returning to school, earn a degree and get into some trade that is more than "marginally" profitable; like, say, investment banking. :))

Here: to simplify the calculations for you, I have presented the data below:

Posted Image

I am sorry we cannot help you here at the Immortality Institute; as you currently are not a paying member (I understand money is tight for you these days and you cannot afford membership); keep trying though; your efforts are certainly noted. Keep up the good work! Effort counts! You are a "special" person to us here, 1fast400. We want the best for you.

Posted Image

Click the image. :)

Edited by nootropi, 22 January 2005 - 11:58 PM.


#532 stellar

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 12:42 AM

Nootropi won't get 1FAST400 products tested because he is afraid the outcome will shut him up (by taking away his reason for criticism).

#533 nootropi

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 01:21 AM

Nootropi won't get 1FAST400 products tested because he is afraid the outcome will shut him up (by taking away his reason for criticism).


Nope. Why would I waste my money and time testing 1fast400 products? I'll assign that duty to you. Thank you very much.

The owner of 1fast400 has lost my respect when it comes to anything that could endanger my life. Note: I do not tell you, stellar, to buy your products from anywhere. Your voice is the same as mine on the web; however, at this juncture, my words are backed by deeds, and your words are exactly that: only words -- and talk is cheap.

:)

#534 stellar

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 02:13 AM

however, at this juncture, my words are backed by deeds, and your words are exactly that: only words -- and talk is cheap. 


Talk is cheap huh? You've been bellyaching about the purity of products, especially 1FAST400...but when he finally takes you up on the offer you scurry away (yet continue to question the purity).

Looks like you want to continue being cheap and skip the "deed".
I can see why, your ego is at stake here. :)

[thumb]

#535 zg00

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 02:19 AM

Stellars right Adam. Spam is an example of cheap talk and thats *exactly* what your doing in regard to smi2le (and of course your negative 1fast spamming).

You should learn when to bite your lip.

#536 nootropi

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 04:30 AM

Posted Image

#537 dopamine

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 05:28 AM

Nootropi - it is sufficiently clear at this point that the only people's health you have concern for is your own. That is fine, no one is asking you to dedicate yourself to a cause beyond yourself. But you have stated many times that it is your intention to promote the lives and well-being of many through ensuring product purity. I think that everyone (including yourself) knows that the "cause" which you are attempting to further does not transcend beyond yourself at all - it is centered in your fragile ego, crying for recognition.

Step outside youself and ask this question - who should be the one to test 1fast400's products for contamination? From any kind of reasonable point of view, it should of course be the person who has in fact accused that company of selling contaminated products, because that person obviously thinks they know what is not known. If that person refuses to heed that oppourtunity, then it is patently obvious that they are not at all concerned with objectivity or finding the truth of the matter; rather, they are scared of what the rift might be betweent the truth and their empty words.

#538 zg00

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 06:07 AM

Posted Image


So you throw a couple of dollars their way so you feel entitled to spam? Cute.

#539 bleslie

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Posted 24 January 2005 - 09:55 PM

This is my first post on here --

I'd like to point out that smi2le.biz is still offering for sale some products -- the "prohormone" products -- that are now a felony to distribute!

I was rooting for smi2le when I first became aware of the website a half year ago, although I was a bit concerned about its unprofessional appearance, grammatical errors, etc. I notice that it is still making the same "coming soon!" promises that it was at its inception (e.g., for just-around-the-corner custom blends). Besides reading this forum, a quick google groups search will turn up many, many people who have had bad experiences with smi2le.biz. Many people regard him as a scam artist.

My own experience is that the guy doesn't answer emails, period. Not good. If the guy isn't even aware that he is committing a felony by selling several products (particularly someone supposedly raided by the feds!), or can't be bothered to update his website more than every couple of months, then I have grave concerns about ingesting chemicals he is packing by hand.

I suspect that Rizzer isn't a scam artist, and is more in the "goofball, not ready for primetime" category. But he is not a good businessman.

My experiences with 1fast400 have been uniformly excellent. The same with BAC. Both companies have been around for years, and will doubtless be around for many more. This inspires much more confidence than any side-issues about whether a guy, probably operating out of his garage, and who can't be contacted by his customers, is "paying" for COA's.

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#540 nootropi

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Posted 24 January 2005 - 10:20 PM

This is my first post on here --


Strange isn't it? A first time poster's review of smi2le.biz! Just what we need! Thanks for sharing!


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