2844 replies to this topic

[MrHappy]

Found another UMP source:
http://www.nutrimedi...product.id=3890

[1thoughtMaze1]

Found another UMP source:
http://www.nutrimedi...product.id=3890

beautiful

[JChief]

These folks were getting up to 18 grams per day of Triacetyluridine TAU
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18540779

"These results suggest that TAU treatment may decrease symptoms of depression and improve mitochondrial functioning."

[MrHappy]

Yeah, just a little bit over requirements.
Maybe they were also testing for harmful effects at insane doses, undocumented?

[nito]

Found another UMP source:
http://www.nutrimedi...product.id=3890

Mr happy make me happy please. Tau or ump? And did you use credit card on your purchase, if so, which site was this. Just would like to know the trusted ones.

[JChief]

I just started my TAU regimen. I am going with 25mg TAU + 2g Omega 3s + 500mg ALCAR twice per day. Let the placebo begin eh? Wish me luck.

@nito - Happy currently uses UMP and I believe he purchased the powder from superior nutraceuticals here. He was mixing 250mg of that powder with 500mg Alpha GPC and some Berocca and took other supplements along with. Since TAU seems to be more bioavailable less would be needed and we all hope for similar benefits as the studies indicate uridine in combination with fatty acids are what is beneficial. Seems either way is a win. I purchased from Swanson as they had the best price for TAU (25mg x 60 caps). I do not believe they carry the UMP variety that is sold by the same manufacturer @ 300mg per cap.

Edited by JChief, 30 November 2011 - 11:47 AM.

[MrHappy]

I'm still waiting on my.. box.. of TAU to arrive, so I can't comment on TAU yet. I anticipate it being equally impressive, just smaller doses needed. UMP works like a charm, though. Cost of UMP is slightly more expensive, but it's still chicken-feed overall eg. 20c/day in bulk.

All of the sites I used had paypal integration, so no risk of credit card details being exposed to any vendors' potentially poorly coded websites.

[nito]

I'm still waiting on my.. box.. of TAU to arrive, so I can't comment on TAU yet. I anticipate it being equally impressive, just smaller doses needed. UMP works like a charm, though. Cost of UMP is slightly more expensive, but it's still chicken-feed overall eg. 20c/day in bulk.

All of the sites I used had paypal integration, so no risk of credit card details being exposed to any vendors' potentially poorly coded websites.

OK i shall pick up both ump and tau. I dont have paypal though:(

[MrHappy]

You don't need a paypal account as such - they just act as a merchant facility for the website - Paypal processes the card transaction and transfers the cash to the vendor's bank account. Safer. Easy.

[nito]

You don't need a paypal account as such - they just act as a merchant facility for the website - Paypal processes the card transaction and transfers the cash to the vendor's bank account. Safer. Easy.

OK i just ordered TAU from swanson. No clue how long it will take, hopefully not long.

[nito]

And now ump from Superior Nutraceuti​cals.

[nito]

wait if uridine and cdp does same thing, then why on earth did i buy tau and ump when i have cdp : /

[JChief]

wait if uridine and cdp does same thing, then why on earth did i buy tau and ump when i have cdp : /

Because for some reason taking uridine as opposed to another substance that theoretically breaks down to uridine are two different things. You are doing the right thing and taking the substance in a similar fashion as the studies that have been put out thus far. Lots of people take CDP. Not as many taking TAU/UMP it would appear. I'd try and stick with what the studies are talking about - which is supplementing with uridine and not a precursor (brewer's yeast or otherwise).

Side note: uridine is supposed to improve the mood right? Well I see that uridine is found in.. sugar! beer! No wonder this stuff is workin!

Edited by JChief, 30 November 2011 - 12:44 PM.

[nito]

wait if uridine and cdp does same thing, then why on earth did i buy tau and ump when i have cdp : /

Because for some reason taking uridine as opposed to another substance that theoretically breaks down to uridine are two different things. You are doing the right thing and taking the substance in a similar fashion as the studies that have been put out thus far. Lots of people take CDP. Not as many taking TAU/UMP it would appear. I'd try and stick with what the studies are talking about - which is supplementing with uridine and not a precursor (brewer's yeast or otherwise).

Side note: uridine is supposed to improve the mood right? Well I see that uridine is found in.. sugar! beer! No wonder this stuff is workin!

Actually i can't feel anything on CDP for some reason.

[MrHappy]

I think uridine has separate functions that occur prior to being converted into CDP.

Also, to clarify for people coming to this thread later -

Uridine is actually a pyrimidine, not a purine. The only way your purine levels would be raised is if you were to consume RNA to obtain uridine - then you would have elevated levels of all of the nucleotides, including purines, which could lead to gout.

Some of the research I've read points to elevated uridine actually being a potential treatment for gout. If you take UMP or TAU, you're not risking gout.

Co-factors for uridine:
B group vitamins - 6, 9 (folate/folic acid), 12
-these are required to support the DNA methylation

DHA+EPA, Vitamin E
-required to increase BDNF, replenishing neural lipid membranes

Choline (alpha-gpc or cdp)
-required to increase acetylcholine levels

Dosages:
TAU is approximately 7 times more bioavailable than UMP. 25mg of TAU = 175mg of UMP approximately.
Sublingual doses (dissolved under the tongue and absorbed, not swallowed) are possibly 10x more bioavailable than normal oral doses.

Hope this helps!

[JChief]

Doesn't ALCAR increase acetylcholine levels too? That's what I'm using currently.

Edit: thanks chrono

Edited by JChief, 01 December 2011 - 05:05 AM.

[tornpie]

I got my Superior Nutraceuticals UMP today. I took a 250 mg sublingual dose. It's definitely doing something. This may be a significant piece to my puzzle. I'm getting a very slight gears are catching, clean kind of feeling that I'd get with methylphenidate or dextroamphetamine. I think with continued use and tweaking the choline and other supplements I may be able to replicate the amphetamine feeling without the negatives.

[MrHappy]

Glad you're enjoying it. Are you taking the co-factors?

Sublingually at that dose, it does seem to have a vaguely similar feeling to it, but without the overly manic effects and tail-end crash. Plus, you can sleep normally. I like it - but for me, not as an 'everyday' thing.

[bacopa]

Mr. Happy I'm not so happy these days with ump, I'm getting kind of ulcer like symptoms, not knowing if indeed I do have an ulcer, but given my poor state of health these days, I wouldn't be surprised if uridine caused it. Because I'm semi-retarded these days, I can't seem to figure out how UMP and uric acid fit together. Says here UMP is Uridine monophosphate, also known as 5'-uridylic acid, so in high concentrations it must be well, very acidic. Is this a problem for people with sensitive stomachs? So Uric Acid is def a no no as it can cause gout, are you saying uridylic acid should not be a worry?

I re read your post on UMP being a Pyrmidine not a pyrine, so would Brewers yeast with UMP in RNA form be ruled out? Or is this too little as in 2g of RNA in brewers yeast.

I only started getting stomach ulcer like pains after taking 300 mg plus of UMP. Now my nicotine problem could have caused my stomach, wel most likely to be extra sensitive as nicotine can erode the lining of stomach leading to ulcers or other stomach issues, blah blah blah....I'm now worried that this is causing my issues. I can work around it I guess if I take lower doses, and quite e cigarettes, which obviously bad idea.

It says on UMP wiki page ester of phosphoric acid is one of the ingredients in UMP. I read phosphoric acid has negative health effects in the form that is in processed foods. It sucks not being able to remmeber what you just read, which is key to problem solving, heh, but maybe you can solve the issue. So would an ester of an acid still be a potential threat to gastrolintestinal issues?

thanks kitty!

Edited by dfowler, 03 December 2011 - 11:03 AM.

[MrHappy]

Hey, D!

It's a very weak acid, so I would be surprised to hear of any gastro issues. Your average soft drink would be probably more acidic.

Some of us have be supplementing UMP sublingually. It's about 10x more bioavailable, so you can take a lot less.

I remember reading you were taking a few other supplements. Perhaps you are having a reaction from one of those or from interactions with them.

Stop taking everything for a few days, see if you feel better, then if you like, try the uridine combination by itself for a week and see how you feel.

See if you can isolate what the issue is.

[telight]

What about UTP (URIDINE-5'-TRIPHOSPHATE) as Uridine source? It is much cheaper, but I don't know nothing about its effectiveness though.

[telight]

"Choline (alpha-gpc or cdp)-required to increase acetylcholine levels". Has anyone tried the more potent huperzine A to increase acetylcholine?

[JChief]

"Choline (alpha-gpc or cdp)-required to increase acetylcholine levels". Has anyone tried the more potent huperzine A to increase acetylcholine?

I am currently using ALCAR but I think it's worth considering the role that citicoline plays in this combinatinon. There is more than just acetylcholine to consider.

"significant changes in membrane phospholipids, were observed in the anterior cingulate cortex after 6 weeks of citicoline treatment" {}

"citicoline has been experimentally shown to increase norepinephrine and dopamine levels in the CNS. Owing to these pharmacological mechanisms, citicoline has a neuroprotective effect in hypoxic and ischemic conditions, decreasing the volume of ischemic lesion, and also improves learning and memory performance in animal models of brain aging. In addition, citicoline has been shown to restore the activity of mitochondrial ATPase and membrane Na+/K+ATPase, to inhibit activation of certain phospholipases, and to accelerate reabsorption of cerebral edema in various experimental models. Citicoline has also been shown to be able to inhibit mechanisms of apoptosis associated to cerebral ischemia and in certain neurodegeneration models, and to potentiate neuroplasticity mechanisms. Citicoline is a safe drug, as shown by the toxicological tests conducted, that has no significant systemic cholinergic effects and is a well tolerated product." {}

and for uridine/DHA and other interesting tidbits:

"The brain is unusual among organs in that the rates of many of its characteristic enzymatic reactions are controlled by the local concentrations of their substrates, which also happen to be nutrients that cross the blood-brain barrier. Thus, for example, brain levels of tryptophan, tyrosine, or choline can control the rates at which neurons synthesize serotonin, dopamine, or acetylcholine, respectively. The rates at which brain cells produce membrane phospholipids such as phosphatidylcholine (PC) are also under such control, both in adult animals and, especially, during early development. If pregnant rats are fed the 3 dietary constituents needed for PC synthesis- docosahexaenoic acid, uridine, and choline-starting 10 days before parturition and continuing for 20 days during nursing, brain levels of PC, and of the other membrane phosphatides (per cell or per mg protein), are increased by 50% or more. In adult animals, this treatment is also known to increase synaptic proteins (eg, synapsin-l, syntaxin-3, GluR-l, PSD-95) but not ubiquitous proteins like beta-tubulin and to increase (by 30% or more) the number of dendritic spines on hippocampal neurons. Docosahexaenoic acid currently is widely used, in human infants, to diminish the negative effects of prematurity on cognitive development. Moreover, docosahexaenoic acid, uridine (as uridine monophosphate), and choline are all found in mother's milk, and included in most infant formulas. It is proposed that these substances are part of a regulatory mechanism through which plasma composition influences brain development." {}

"uridine and DHA may partially restore dopaminergic neurotransmission" {}

So perhaps the antidepressent effects are acting moreso on the NE/DA than SE? Assuming uridine affects the synthesis of nerve cell membranes and their "fluidity" maybe that means all neurotransmitters' activity are enhanced somewhat.

Edited by JChief, 04 December 2011 - 09:17 AM.

[JChief]

DHA+EPA, Vitamin E
-required to increase BDNF, replenishing neural lipid membranes

Vitamin C also enhances the effects of Vitamin E. {} Vitamin C may also be able to regenerate other antioxidants such as vitamin E {}. One recent study of cigarette smokers found that vitamin C regenerated vitamin E from its oxidized form {}. Vitamin C also plays an important role in the synthesis of the neurotransmitter, norepinephrine (uridine influences the levels of neurotransmitters such as dopamine and norepinephrine and both are important brain chemicals that affect mood, mobility and general arousal). In addition, vitamin C is required for the synthesis of carnitine, a small molecule that is essential for the transport of fat into cellular organelles called mitochondria, where the fat is converted to energy {}.

In other words, a high quality multivitamin would be a good idea for this or any other regimen.

Edited by JChief, 04 December 2011 - 09:13 AM.

[MrHappy]

Huperzine A is an AChEI. It raises levels by preventing the breakdown of ACh. While it would work - probably very well for that matter - personally I prefer to let the enzymes do their job and raise ACh by just adding more choline. Others will disagree, probably owing a research paper regarding choline and arterial plaque. YMMV, do let us know how you go!

UTP seems to have some other significant effects, including vasoconstriction and treating bronchitis, at different dosages. Short answer is probably yes, but no idea if increasing UTP is going to change any other functions adversely. No idea on dosage, either. Essentially, you're in uncharted territory for me.

UMP and TAU is dirt cheap - $15 for 2 months supply + shipping. Probably 20 months, if you divide it by 10 and take it sublingually.

If you do try UTP, let us know how you go.

[MrHappy]

In other words, a high quality multivitamin would be a good idea for this or any other regimen.

Bingo. Very good point - vitamin c increases absorption and availability of many nutrients. I'm taking a multi + a few specifics.

Uridine + DHA as an antidepressant could be related to increasing the density of neurotransmitters and receptors, etc. and restoring a normal balance. Additionally, short-term effects of increased dopamine release could be another large factor. Possibly both effects combined lead to very positive results..

More research needed? <chuckle>

[Hebbeh]

http://www.smart-pub...inst-Alzheimers

Repost from Tham in medicines and diseases..

Thank You MrHappy for starting this thread (and thanks to Tham too!)...and doing the research on the potential benefits of Uridine supplementation...It's been a blessing and very much appreciated!

[MrHappy]

http://www.smart-pub...inst-Alzheimers

Repost from Tham in medicines and diseases..

Thank You MrHappy for starting this thread (and thanks to Tham too!)...and doing the research on the potential benefits of Uridine supplementation...It's been a blessing and very much appreciated!

I always enjoy helping people... and this knowledge has the potential to help a great many people.

Glad it has made such a difference for you, too!

[telight]

Quote Mr. Happy: "Huperzine A is an AChEI. It raises levels by preventing the breakdown of ACh. While it would work - probably very well for that matter - personally I prefer to let the enzymes do their job and raise ACh by just adding more choline. Others will disagree, probably owing a research paper regarding choline and arterial plaque. YMMV, do let us know how you go!

UTP seems to have some other significant effects, including vasoconstriction and treating bronchitis, at different dosages. Short answer is probably yes, but no idea if increasing UTP is going to change any other functions adversely. No idea on dosage, either. Essentially, you're in uncharted territory for me.

UMP and TAU is dirt cheap - $15 for 2 months supply + shipping. Probably 20 months, if you divide it by 10 and take it sublingually.

If you do try UTP, let us know how you go." End Quote


I'm getting my nootropics soon, I haven't found a good source for uridine (UMP) though. TAU is good but according to this study(link can be found in post #144) it is only 4 times more bioavailable in humans. Where NucleamaxX is a source of TAU.

The mean maximal concentration of uridine after administration of pure uridine was 36.1±11.3 µM compared with 150.9±39.3 µM after NucleomaxX® (p<0.0001), also occurring 1–2 hours after dosing. The half-life for pure uridine was longer than that for NucleomaxX® (4.6±1.2 vs. 3.4±0.8 hours, p = 0.05).

C_max and AUC were four-fold higher after administration of a single dose of NucleomaxX® than that found after an equimolar amount of pure uridine (RG2417). The finding that >90% of the nucleoside component of NucleomaxX® is in the form of TAU, rather than uridine, suggests that TAU has much greater bioavailability than pure uridine.
To our knowledge, this is the first study to demonstrate enhanced bioavailibility of TAU compared with uridine in humans. In mice, the relative bioavailability of plasma uridine from orally administered TAU was 7-fold greater than that achieved by an equimolar amount of oral uridine [10].


This would mean that three 25mg pills of TAU will be needed to achieve the availability as one 300mg UMP when taken orally. This makes me more interested in UMP cost-wise. I'm curious as to where get a 2 month supply of UMP for $15, the only one for sale that is still in stock is $35+plus whatever they charge for shipping. I'm sure you were referring to TAU when you said a 2 months supply can be had for 15 bucks, but since bio-availability is only four-fold that of UMP this would translate to a 20 day supply for $15. Looks like I'm going to have to wait for pureformulas to sort out their UMP supply issues. In the mean time i might just experiment with UTP

[telight]

According to the link found in post 144 is bioavaliability of TAU is only 4 times more then that of pure uridine(in humans at least). I'm curious as to where you get you UMP for $15 for a 2 month supply. I think you were referring to TAU(which i have found for 15 bucks) which will take 3 25mg pills to get the effective dose that the 300mg pill of UMP brings. This boils down to $15 for a 20 day supply. Unless you have a super secret UMP that you don't want to post here for the fear it will be overrun.