15 replies to this topic

[TheFountain]

The general consensus seems to be that cardio is catabolic to muscle growth, but boxers do more cardio arguably than any other sport, with the exception of marathon runners and swimmers, so how is it that they don't lose that precious muscle? Are they activating their muscle fibers differently, to make them recover better despite the many miles they jog, on average and other variable cardio activity they engage in?

Also, considering all the cardio boxers do, why don't they die as many sudden deaths as, say runners and soccer players? In fact I never hear about boxers suffering sudden training death, the only deaths I hear about in boxing are from things like subdural hemorrhage from getting punched in the head too hard, but this only happens rarely.

Edited by TheFountain, 21 October 2011 - 12:25 AM.

[mustardseed41]

Genetic elites always have advantages in the muscle loss department. I don't think Terrell Owens or Christiano Renaldo are lacking muscle either with all the cardio they do/did.

[TheFountain]

Genetic arguments are too lazy, let's try something that doesn't easily brush things under the rug.

[Shepard]

How about....the general consensus is incorrect?

[TheFountain]

How about....the general consensus is incorrect?

Or too lazy to think of something else?

Look, I just don't buy the 'genetics' argument because it isn't based on any fundamental tenets of study. It's just a social myth that's been repeated by our culture since the dawn of bio-science. I highly doubt every single boxer out there with muscle is 'genetically gifted'. Skot already spoke in detail about this on another thread, so I will leave it at that.

Can we then surmise why else they are able to keep their muscle despite vast amounts of cardio in their regimen?

[Shepard]

You're making the following assumptions:

Boxers have significant amounts of skeletal muscle for their body weight.
Boxers perform above average amounts of steady state aerobic training for athletes.
Above average amounts of steady state aerobic training leads to loss of skeletal muscle independent of other factors.

None of which is supported. So, you can search for an answer that supports your shaky hypothesis, or you can shift your hypothesis to fit reality.

Edited by Shepard, 21 October 2011 - 01:46 PM.

[TheFountain]

You're making the following assumptions:

Boxers have significant amounts of skeletal muscle for their body weight.
Boxers perform above average amounts of steady state aerobic training for athletes.
Above average amounts of steady state aerobic training leads to loss of skeletal muscle independent of other factors.

None of which is supported. So, you can search for an answer that supports your shaky hypothesis, or you can shift your hypothesis to fit reality.

For a professional boxing match a boxer has to train an average of two and a half to three months, jog an average of 8 miles a day, jump rope, jump around a ring with sparring partners, etc. If you don't consider this an above average steady state of aerobics then I know not what is.

[TheFountain]

And the reason I am inquiring about this is because I have a lot of respect for boxers and the training regimen they must undergo to compete on that level. I try to incorporate some boxing training elements into my own regimen and it pays off, my respiratory output for example, increased. Not I can't jump rope for the life of me, at least not yet but I can certainly dance and swing and shadow box. I think I may invest in a speed bag.

[Shepard]

I doubt the averages hold across weight classes, but I'll take 8 miles. That's ~60-75 minutes a day of road work which serves multiple purposes, recovery not the least among them. Not a big deal. Pad and bag work are usually done in a sport-specific manner, meaning it's not steady state. Rope work serves other purposes than conditioning, and isn't usually done for vast amounts of time. This is not excessive for a professional athlete. It has to be kept in mind that this level of ability is built up to over a decade, or more. You can't roll out of bed and do this amount of activity and expect similar results.

Also, training camp levels of focus aren't maintained year round. Keep in mind that the athlete has an entourage with him. Nutrition is dialed in, recovery is dialed in, and there is no focus other than training. If you're interested in some good boxer training for non-professionals (stuff normal people can handle), look up Ross Enamait.

Edited by Shepard, 21 October 2011 - 02:36 PM.

[TheFountain]

Pad and bag work are usually done in a sport-specific manner, meaning it's not steady state.

This reminds me of a video I watched a few months ago with muhammad ali training way back in the 70s I think, and his trainer was coaching him on how to always alternate his foot work while doing jumping and dancing routines because staying in one place or position too long (I.E steady state) is 'bad for the heart'. It makes sense from the cardiac standpoint since we hear very little about boxers dying in training. Runners on the other hand engage in a lot of 'steady state' cardio exercises, one presumes.

Edited by TheFountain, 21 October 2011 - 04:15 PM.

[Steve_86]

Most combat athletes use anabolics... They are only tested prior to fights so they cycle them between fights so they are clean by the time of the fight. Without these drugs there is no way their bodies could handle the amount of training they do.

[Shepard]

PED use is rampant in all sports. Since boxing is an Olympic sport, amateur fighters are subject to out of competition testing, theoretically. But the only people that think PEDs are a magic bullet are the people that have never used them.

[icyT]

The general consensus seems to be that cardio is catabolic to muscle growth

I don't concede this. It's more like underfed/fasted long-term cardio with a lack of strength training that is catabolic.

boxers do more cardio arguably than any other sport, with the exception of marathon runners and swimmers, so how is it that they don't lose that precious muscle? Are they activating their muscle fibers differently, to make them recover better despite the many miles they jog, on average and other variable cardio activity they engage in?

Unlike marathon runners (I don't know about swimmers, some are pretty jacked, look at Phelps) boxers do a lot of strength training too.

Also, considering all the cardio boxers do, why don't they die as many sudden deaths as, say runners and soccer players?

Boxers only do running as training. Runners and soccer players can run themselves to death by overdoing it in the moment of competition.

A boxer may more often just get knocked out because as soon as he begins to fatigue he becomes more vulnerable to an opponent's attacks, or can lose his balance more easily and get a down.

Edited by Tyciol, 22 February 2012 - 11:18 PM.

[12 String]

The general consensus seems to be that cardio is catabolic to muscle growth,

I've heard that from people who lift weights, but a lot of the people I cycle with are pretty muscular.
Speed skaters also have enormous thighs. Lots of cardio in those 2 sports. Maybe it's just a myth cause the lack of body fat makes them look un-muscular.

Lance Armstrong:
http://thebostonjam....strong-37-b.jpg

German women speed skaters:
http://www.theepocht...rms97109013.jpg

[Raptor87]

Lot´s of reasons.

They eat more calories than they burn.

They have been training all of their lives which has adapted their bodies. (That´s why they get so damn fat when they quit working out.)

Their upper bodies are well developed but their legs aren´t.

They combine with weight training.

They use steroids. (Mike Tyson did!)

They use different training regimes at different day´s so some of the muscles get rested.

There is a reason for why they are doing it, once they were prodigies an that´s because of their GENES!

[nowayout]

My impression from the little I have seen of MMA training is that what they do is more akin to HIIT (high intensity interval training) than steady state cardio. HIIT is widely thought to be more muscle sparing than steady cardio.