So, design an experiment that cannot be faked by the tricks of the trade.
It places the burden of proof where it belongs, on the one claiming to possess the ability.
For some bizarre reason, believers in the supernatural (including the father of the guy who's birth some are about to celebrate) always insist on switching burden of proof. To which I say invisible pink unicorn, FSM, teapot and all that. Or, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
I agree, wholeheartedly. I'm glad to see another rational person in the thread. Undoubtedly, there are many others reading, who simply don't wish to get involved in such a discussion for fear of hurting someone's feelings. I, however, have no such compunctions
Again: the only way to be convinced of the reality of ESP is through the direct personal experience => your insistence that someone 'proves' it to you is equivalent to a demand: bestow this gift on me, while I'll be sure to kick and fight spewing jeers and mockery all the way (because that's the only way I know how to show others that I'm a rational man).
Perhaps we're misunderstanding one another, and talking about two separate things.
If by ESP you mean such abilities as those which will lend you no such advantage which could be detected by scientific or rational means, and that which bestow upon you the ability to perform such acts as could also have been performed without such abilities, then I think there is nothing more to talk about. If this is the case, what you are saying is tantamount to, "I have a special power, though I can't really describe it very well and refuse to acknowledge any questions about its specific scope...and I assure you, it could never be measured, so let's not bother trying".
If, however, by ESP you mean such abilities as those which would lend you such advantage which
could be detected by scientific or rational means, and that which bestow upon you the ability to perform such acts as could
not have been performed without such abilities, then the task of proving such a thing, and 'putting me in my place', is quite an easy one. Simply devise a test by which you can prove your abilities were not the result of mere parlor trickery.
But first, I imagine, you would have to answer the question I will now have posed four times without so much as an acknowledgment on your part that I've even posed it: what exactly
are your ESP abilities?
You, LBGSHI, please tell me, why does the topic upset you so much that lost all propriety:
... showing a marked lack of knowledge concerning the brain and its constituent parts... It's disappointing to see on such a great site as Longecity.
People like yourself who tout the amazing abilities bestowed upon you by adopting quasi-mystical practices, which cannot be measured and which you zealously avoid having measured, do much more harm than good by convincing desperate people that there are magical answers to their problems. If you hate science and logic, as you seem to profess, then it would be better for you to simply stay out of the conversation.
Actually, you quoted me out of context. Allow me to quote the entire paragraph from which you plucked the first quote above:
Someone advocating belief in ESP, specifying that people with 'evolved brains' believe in ESP and are capable of telepathic communication (and use speech only to communicate with those who possess 'lesser brains', including, apparently, 96% of the National Academy of Sciences, as one example), and showing a marked lack of knowledge concerning the brain and its constituent parts, quite literally defies logic. It's disappointing to see on such a great site as Longecity.
The last sentence, concerning disappointment, was referring to the whole of the above paragraph: someone advocating belief in pseudoscience insulting the scientific community by stating that it was populated by "un-evolved brains". If anything, my response was mild.
As for the second quote above, I see nothing therein which bears criticism. Your behavior does negatively affect the community. The only thing to be thankful for is that you're spending time here, rather than amongst vulnerable and uneducated men and women who have no natural defense against your insipid deception...or self-deception, as it were.
All your assumptions about me are wrong. And look how you reacted lol. Good thing this is just a board on the net. If it were a few centuries back, you'd be sure to tie me up to a stake and take a personal pleasure in lighting timber at my feet.
What an ironic statement. First, the fact that I disapprove of your baseless claims and your intention to deceive others does not mean I would physically harm you if I could do so. Second, you are the one claiming to be motivated by paranormal phenomena, while I am the one advocating rational, scientific inquiry - in other words, "a few centuries back", you would more likely be the one splashing me with holy water and calling me the devil, for taking a rational, scientific look at things.
It is ironic that this came up in the thread about evolution of human intelligence. People like you have been systematically exterminating people like me. Why? What's in it that gets you so wound up? If it is not inferiority complex, then what is it?
Wait, what? What people "like me" have been exterminating what people "like you"? And "systematically", at that? Is there a specific conspiracy theory you're getting at here, or did I miss something? Please elaborate.
In the mean time, I'm wondering if there a point at all talking to a person, whose mental processes, by his own admission, amount to nothing but random fluctuations, inconsequential and irrelevant even to himself:
Anecdotally, I have certainly observed that myself and my wife tend to call or text message one another simultaneously quite often. It is indeed uncanny, and appears phenomena... However, I tend to agree with Major Legend, that this is a statistical likelihood, given patterns of daily activity, small numbers of those 'close' to any given person, and the many opportunities for such a thing to occur.
My mental processes are quite functional, non-random, consequential, and relevant. I do not, however, pretend that any given set of events which reminds me of a certain person should be ignored in favor of believing that it was psychic communication that caused the reminiscence. Though it may seem random, or pseudo-random, to suddenly conjure up the memory or concept of a given person, there is in fact always a set of thoughts that preceded this thought, which led to it. This may come in the form of new input (sighting a restaurant in which a fond memory was shared between you and that person), or in the form of an indirect chain of thoughts brought about by either new input, or simple contemplation or pondering (thinking of what to eat tonight brings to mind spaghetti, which brings to mind a restaurant in which the fond memory above was created, which brings to mind your husband or wife). This very loosely defined concept (I have not, as you may surmise, made a thesis out of it, and have only had to address its function in response to your incredible statements) is far more probable than one which evokes long-distance, psychic communication. I can prove that a set of thoughts can in fact lead to a specific thought, while you cannot prove your ability to communicate psychically.
As for your comment that you're not sure you should bother talking to a person such as myself, that is entirely up to you. It would certainly not hurt my feelings if you were to discontinue this conversation. However, I would ask that you perform a little introspection on your way out the door, and ask yourself if it's really right to tell people, as if it were a matter of certain fact, that which you do not have any method of verifying, and that which, after all else, you cannot prove or even show evidence of, and that which in fact defies all existing evidence to the contrary.
If you are absolutely certain you possess such abilities, and yet your certainty is at variance with any capability of establishing this as truth, and further, you either refuse to be specific in description of these abilities, or do not yourself possess a specific knowledge of what these may be...then this may, in fact, imply a mental illness. I mean this in no way sarcastically, nor do I mean this maliciously. It is something to consider.
Edited by LBGSHI, 23 December 2012 - 10:19 AM.
