43 replies to this topic

[MangekyōPeter]

I've tried hot/cold shower therapy for a few months last year but it's still very hard for me to deal with coldness, I live in Latvia which is basically Russia temperature wise and I used to tolerate cold quite well but for the past 2-3 years it's simply TOO cold, i simply tense up and shiver at full capacity just to stay in there, whether it's a cold shower or a relatively warm lake in the summer i'm still very sensitive to it, even more in water than just plain coldness... Would really want to get back to how I tolerated cold before.

[smithx]

Sure, some will have an easier time adapting to extreme temperatures and cold than others. This does not mean that those that don't have it in them to more easily adapt cannot still benefit from exposure of some degree.

The point is not that some can adapt more easily. The point is that the adaptations are very different.

Some groups increase metabolic rate. Some don't. Some increase blood flow to the extremities. Some reduce blood flow to the extremities. Some collect more fat around organs. Some distribute fat around the body.

Their metabolic responses differ quite widely. So what's true for one group is likely not true for others.

[Recortes]

Iceman!, impressive this Dutch guy.

[Logan]

My point that I did not make very clear was, that just like with exercise, there is likely a threshold at which all can benefit. I didn't see anything that said most humans do not have the potential to benefit on some way from exposure to cold. What i should have said before is, there are likely other ways we can benefit from cold exposure, specifically cold water immersion, that have nothing to do with thermogenesis. I should have made this year earlier. Basically, forget about Krause, forget about thermogenesis, and think about othe ways the body besides to cold exposure, specifically cold water, that can be of some benefit to overall health.

I tend to believe everyone has some ability to adapt and build tolerance to heat and cold. If that is the case, the positive physiological responses are occurring that have therapeutic potential.

[niner]

The point is not that some can adapt more easily. The point is that the adaptations are very different.

Some groups increase metabolic rate. Some don't. Some increase blood flow to the extremities. Some reduce blood flow to the extremities. Some collect more fat around organs. Some distribute fat around the body.

Their metabolic responses differ quite widely. So what's true for one group is likely not true for others.

That's not because the groups are different at the level of deep metabolic programming, it just means that different groups of people have different lifestyles that lead to different types of adaptations being prominent. For example, shivering is the first adaptation that you'll see. In the cold, a typical person from the developed world will shiver. It's AN adaptation, but it's not the ONLY adaptation they're capable of. If they got more extensively adapted, they would experience the metabolic changes that Kruse discusses, err, raves about.

If the capability for radical cold adaptation is built into all mammals, as Kruse seems to be saying, then it's just a matter of how much cold exposure people have, and different groups have different levels of exposure.

[xEva]

I've tried hot/cold shower therapy for a few months last year but it's still very hard for me to deal with coldness, I live in Latvia which is basically Russia temperature wise and I used to tolerate cold quite well but for the past 2-3 years it's simply TOO cold, i simply tense up and shiver at full capacity just to stay in there, whether it's a cold shower or a relatively warm lake in the summer i'm still very sensitive to it, even more in water than just plain coldness... Would really want to get back to how I tolerated cold before.

marekso, why would not you try Dr Kruse protocol? I hear a right method is everything in such matters. And gradual adaptation is the key. I read some other experts in this field and they all said that the process must give pleasure -- certainly immediately after, when you experience that rush of warmth radiating from within. You get hooked on it like a junkie and look forward to repeating the experience, rather than dreading it. It sounds like you overdid it at some point.


smithx, the 3rd paper that you liked first mentioned that Skreslet and Aarefjord published a study in 1968 where they observed adaptation to cold in deep water scuba divers during 45 days. The result was that what until then was thought of as different cold adaptations --what you write about-- in fact were various stages on the way to the complete adaptation to cold. It just what niner said, differences in environment prompt different adaptations. People thought that Inuit were the best adapted to cold, but they wore warm clothes and lived in well heated huts. The best cold adapted group turned out Australian Aborigines, who basically slept on the ground and wore hardly any clothes. But anyone can adapt to anything, and then loose it. Thus Korean ama (traditional divers) lost some of their cold adaptations when wetsuits were introduced.

[Recortes]

How to go from HS CRP 5.4 to 0.44 in a month without drugs (well, no drug can do this anyway)

http://jackkruse.com...fx-to-practice/

My journey to optimal health started with a major speed bump. The day was June 2nd 2006 and it was a major wake up call. My wife and I were driving a UHaul Truck along I 75 passing through Atlanta GA when my cell phone rang. I picked it up and it was the dermatologist office in Miami with my results from the biopsy of a mole removed several days earlier. Exactly what we discussed I can’t recall – I actually can’t recall even navigating the truck through traffic for the next 10 minutes I was on the phone with the office discussing options as I wasn’t able to comply with their request of being in the office Monday to schedule surgery. I recall being very careful about my words and my questions I was asking so as to not pique the interest of my passenger (my wife) in the truck.

This was a call you never expect to receive – a diagnosis of cancer – Melanoma to be specific – one of the deadliest forms of cancer. After I hung up the phone, I was so in denial that I completely misled my wife about the content of the call stating simply that “I needed to go in for a follow up in St Louis when we get settled from our move.” What an understatement that was, for the next 7 hours as I drove the remainder of the way to St Louis, my mind raced with questions:

“How could I have cancer, I exercise 4-5 times per week?”
“How could I have cancer, I eat reasonably healthy, don’t do drugs, drink heavily, and have never smoked?”
“How could I have skin cancer? I don’t use tanning beds and certainly wouldn’t be considered someone who’s always baked or tanned?”
“There really isn’t a history of cancer in my family…so, how did this happen to me?” [note: we'll come back to this one later]

Step one in my journey required me to have major surgery and treatment for cancer in the summer of 2006 leaving my body free of the melanoma with the only momento being a large scar on my left neck that looks like I was in a bar fight or bad accident.

What was interesting about this initial step in my journey was my complete mis-understanding of what had happened and the biologic mismatches that were leading me down the path to being unhealthy and possible early demise. I was under the impression (based on conventional wisdom and treatment) that I had become victim of cancer due to things like sunburns, tanning beds and bad luck genetically. Some sort of ‘bad luck’ lottery result. Never once was lifestyle choices and diet/nutrition mentioned by my surgeon or any of the practitioners treating me. I never recall being tested for systemic inflammation or even counseled on risk factors other than being constantly reminded to cover up and use sunscreen.

Between 2006 and 2010, I went on about my life, heeding the conventional medical advice and continued working out (lots of chronic cardio), working long hours (I would sleep for less than 6 hours typically) and eating what I thought was a fairly healthy diet of low fat and ‘heart healthy whole grains.’

The next major wake up call in my journey was my wife’s ailments. She developed chronic issues with her gall bladder and in the summer of 2010 had her gall bladder removed in a surgical procedure. Again, we followed conventional wisdom and diet recommendations and thought we were on track for a healthy lifestyle. After surgery, when her digestive issues didn’t resolve, I queried the medical practitioners several times about diet recommendations and received limited to no help. I happened upon a Podcast by Robb Wolff in the fall of 2010 covering recommendations for someone without a gall bladder. I picked up a copy of the “Paleo Diet” book and read it cover to cover in one day. I was floored and shocked. It was such an eye opener for me about being off track from a nutritional standpoint for both myself and my wife. We began to ‘clean up our diet’ in the fall of 2010.

Again the phone rang…this time it wasn’t a wake up call for me. It was my mother talking about the fact that my father had been diagnosed with bladder cancer and was going to have it surgically removed. He had also been struggling with high blood pressure, his weight and Type II diabetes for years. My mother had been struggling with Ulcerative Colitis and had developed colon cancer and had her colon removed in surgery. This was not something that had previously been ‘disclosed’ to the kids in the name of keeping us from worrying. I asked about other incidents of cancer in the the family. Turned out my mother had cancerous growths removed from her throat when I was young and her mother and father both died from cancer. So much for my thoughts about not having cancer in the family.

My mind began to re-think/reconsider the neolithic thoughts from 2006. What if my entire framework for what I was doing in the name of being healthy was wrong? What if I was on the same track as my parents? Certainly after reading the Paleo Diet, I knew that my family was ‘typical’ and our diet/nutritional needs growing up as kids were way off track. What I was struggling with was whether this was just biologic bad luck and something that I was stuck being ‘at risk’ for based on my family’s history.

[indent=1][color=#333333][size=4][color=#333333][size=4][color=#333333][size=4][color=#333333][size=4][color=#333333][size=4][color=#333333][size=4][color=#333333][size=4][color=#333333][size=4]My wife and I relocated from St Louis to Austin in February of 2011 and I scheduled a follow up visit with a medical practitioner with full blood work scheduled. The results shocked me again. I was told that unless I made some significant changes I was on track to becoming a Type II diabetic. My fasting blood glucose and hA1C (90 day average) levels were way too high. I might have looked reasonably good on the outside (I wasn’t significantly overweight) however, my blood worked showed a different picture.

This was the news I needed to go heads down with a Paleo/Primal lifestyle change. Beginning in January, my wife and I cleaned up our diet and followed a fairly strict diet based on ancestral principals. The results visually were dramatic. My wife lost 3 dress sizes and the digestive issues began to resolve. My weight didn’t change significantly, however, my body fat % declined signfiicantly from almost 30% to 17%. Progress… From a ‘vanity’ standpoint I was the image of Ancestral Wellness/Paleo living and success – six pack abs and all!

The picture on the left was taken in the late fall of 2010 in St Louis – prior to moving to Austin and starting the Paleo Diet. Pictures on right were taken in August of 2011.


The final aha moment was in May 2011. The phone rang again while I was on a business trip out of state. The family was told that we needed to rush to the Bay Area as my father had only a couple of days to live as he had cancer again – this time in his kidneys. Being there at the hospital at Stanford University and observing what had happened to my father was shocking. He was merely a shell of what he had been and deteriorated dramatically since I saw him in the fall.

Here’s a picture of my father and myself at exactly the same age – 47 years old. Lifestyle choices and not genetics is the determing factor. He was on blood pressure and glucose medicine at this age.

What was even more shocking was observing the condition of my family vs. me and my wife. My mother was in poor shape and the picture of unhealthy. My younger brother and sister were both limping from chronic pain/injuries and certainly didn’t look healthy. I thought to myself, there’s something missing here? Am I doing enough to ensure longevity? I knew I needed to learn more about cancer as the prospect of going through what I had just witnessed scared the heck of our me.
I was bound and determined to take every step to avoid that at all costs.
More on Podcast interview I did with Abel James.
A Biologic “Fork in the Road” – with huge implications for longevity and long term wellness!
My quest to understand the mechanisms for cancer led me to several major ahas. The first was that inflammation was a significant factor in not only all cancer but also cardiovascular disease. Especially chronic long term inflammation. There are many factors that trigger inflammation. These factors are found in both our internal and external environments. Factors that trigger increased inflammation include excessive levels of the hormone insulin (insulin resistance), emotional stress, environmental toxins (heavy metals), free-radical damage, lack of sleep, obesity, overconsumption of hydrogenated oils, and smoking. Problems with insulin metabolism are a major contributor to cardiovascular disease.
Inflammation causes endothelial dysfunction and activated endothelium facilitates adhesion and migration of cancer cells.
‘Chronically inflamed tissues continue to generate
signals that attract leukocytes from the bloodstream.
When leukocytes migrate from the bloodstream into
the tissue they amplify the inflammatory response.’
Then the aha moment when the inflammation research tied into my challenges well beyond the risks for cancer and brought the discussion full circle back to my metabolic challenges with insulin regulation [remember my discussion that floored me with my Austin doctor about being 'pre-diabetic' in Feb 2011]:
Scientists at the Joslin Diabetes Center in Boston, have bred a strain of mice whose fat cells are supercharged inflammation factories. “We can reproduce the whole syndrome (diabetes) just by inciting inflammation,” Dr. Steve Shoelson says. This suggests that a well-timed intervention in the inflammatory process might reverse some if not all the effects of diabetes. Some of the drugs that are already used to treat the disorder, like metformin, may work because they also dampen the inflammation response. In addition, preliminary research suggests that high CRP levels may indicate a greater risk of diabetes.
‘Whatever makes us become less efficient at using insulin is
going to aid in the development of diabetes. Treatments for
diabetes work by replacing insulin, boosting its production
or helping the body make more efficient use of the hormone.’
And a final aha moment, much more recently, was discovered as I researched some additional ways to reduce chronic inflammation:‘Inflammation not only further damages the artery walls, leaving
them stiffer and more prone to plaque buildup, but it also makes
any plaque that’s already there more fragile and more likely to burst.’ A 2006 issue of the Journal of the American College of Nutrition an article showing that as consumption of magnesium fell, the levels of C-reactive protein went up. C-reactive protein, or CRP, is produced in the liver and has emerged as a strong predictor of clinical events of cardiovascular diseases, such as heart attacks and stroke, even in cases where cholesterol levels may be normal. For this reason, CRP assays may become a routine part of blood tests for determining CVD risk. CRP levels in the blood are normally undetectable or very low; high levels are strongly associated with inflammation.
There are literally hundreds of physiological reasons to proclaim magnesium the ultimate heart medicine; its involvement in hundreds of enzyme reactions is just a start. Its use as an anti inflammatory makes magnesium absolutely indispensable to not only heart patients but also to diabetics, neurological and cancer patients as well. The treatment of chronic inflammation has been problematic for medical science because most of their treatments create more inflammation. Magnesium chloride does not do this. Virtually all the components of the Metabolic Syndrome
of diabetes, high blood pressure, obesity and lipid
disorders are associated with low magnesium.
Dr. Michael R. Eades Circadian ‘Man on Fire’ – Unresolved Systemic Inflammation! Why worry about this?“[/b]Greater than half of all sudden death from cardiac causes have no history of cardiovascular disease. In fact, over 40% of all heart attack victim autopsies show clear coronary vessels. Clearly, there is much more going on than the simple “cholesterol kills” hypothesis. It is interesting to note that the first and most common sign of cardiovascular disease in post-menopausal women is death. Yes, death. In other words, there are no signs or symptoms.” Doctor Michael Lam MD

I read this quote as part of my research and it simply blew me away. I know many of the readers of Dr. Kruse’ blog are women so you’ll want to also view this TED talk about why this is such a huge issue for you.

Okay, now I was getting somewhere. Biologically mis-matched Paleo folks (especially the Crossfit set) are running around thinking they are healthy – showing no signs/symptoms and dropping dead as the first sign of any issue. This is not isolated today – Livorno soccer player Piermario Morosini died in April with no prior warning. This was the second incident in a month. Dr. Kruse referred to a patient who looked like ‘adonis’ and was a regional Crossfit competitor who presented with respiratory distress that was the first sign of cardio ejection failure. Clearly something is amiss with these biologic mis-matches.
Inflammation was clearly at the center of what needed to be addressed in my quest to avoid cancer, cardiovascular diseases and Type II diabetes. This was clearly at the center of what needed to be addressed.


I had identified a biomarker to measure and track systemic inflammation. C Reactive Protein (Highly Sensitive) was a great way for me to assess my progress in my quest for longevity and optimal living. Now, I also discovered a new player – Magnesium – the warranted some further research as a factor to remove chronic inflammation as well.

(Dr. K says, “note to blog readers I talked about the Magnesium link in disease months ago after controversy developed at AHS 2011 here between Taubes and Guyenet”)
Well….the good news was I knew exactly what needed to be addressed (chronic systemic inflammation) and how to measure it (hs CRP). The bad news, despite my intense focus on following the principals of ancestral wellness (Paleo Diet) and exercising, my CRP test results revealed a chronic level of inflammation over time.
HS CRP Test Results
8/2008 – Pre Paleo Diet (look at my before picture) – 1.0
2/2011 – Start of Paleo Diet (‘pre-diabetic discussion) – 2.3
8/2011 – Bodyfat down to 16.9% – After Photo above taken – 5.3
10/2011 – Bodyfat down to 10.9% – 5.6
3/2012 – Prior to PaleoFX event – 5.4

If I showed up in your office as a Cardiologist with this trend line, you’re going to be highly concerned about systemic inflammation and my risk for a cardiovascular incident. Conventional wisdom would put me on the fast track for some sort of pharmacological intervention. My concern was the long term risk for cancer or a cardiovascular incident, let alone metabolic syndrome and challenges. Something was still off track with my level of inflammation.

Just Eat Real Food (JERF) like our Ancestors and all will be well, Correct? What the Ancestral Wellness as a concept doesn’t address about modern biologic mismatches.
Here’s the bad news in Paleo/Primal living. Despite delivering fantastic results from a ‘vanity’ standpoint for many (weight loss and lean good looking in shape folks), there are still unresolved issues with inflammation for many.

If you attended PaleoFX in March of 2012 and were present for the discussions about longevity vs. performance or several other masterminds, you heard first hand of Crossfitters and other ‘in shape’ athletes presenting with catastrophic failures – despite looking great. Lots of hand waiving from trainers and others from Physical Culture to just ‘listen to your body’ and from my perspective almost all of them were in complete denial of the issues of biologic mismatches. At one point, I stopped the discussion and asked the question “if the first time you have any feedback from your body you’re either dead or in such dire straights, you’ve permanently damaged your heart, is ‘just listen to your body a realistic approach?’ The response – a collective ‘gasp’ from the audience as they got the implications. Silence from the Physical Culturists on the Mastermind panel.

Back to Biologic mismatches and how Ancestral Wellness and the Paleo Diet is not the be all solution for everyone. What is amiss? My n=1 observation is its a function of biologic mis-matches. As neolithic humans, we think if a little is okay, then more is better. From my story above, you’ll see several references to this:
* Chronic over-training – My early training focused on chronic cardio and I was still overtraining until mid-2011.
* Sleep Issues – I used to pride myself on getting by on 5-6 hours of sleep and being a morning person.
* Technologic and lighting mis-matches – We think we can simply ignore Circadian Biologic cycles
* Magnesium and other mineral deficiencies [I - like most in Paleoland - had no idea about Magnesuim and mineral deficiencies until recently]
* Environmental toxins (metals, bpa, etc)
In August of 2011, I began to address each of these areas (save the recent focus on Magnesium and environmental toxins). I made a comment at PaleoFX that most attendees simply missed the implications of. From the end of July to the end of October 2011, the only major change I made in my lifestyle was adding in signficantly more sleep. That single change resulted in a drop in my body fat from 16.9 to 10.9% in less than 90 days.

From there, I focused on dramatically reducing the technology and lighting mismatches. This is the typical lighting (unless using a fireplace in the winter) after dark at the house. 100% of the computers have a program called F.lux installed. My wife and I use goggles that block inappropriate lighting after dark. We follow a very purposeful ritual at sunset and after dark to wind down and get ready for healthy sleep. Poor sleep is a chronic problem today that results in insulin resistance and chronic inflammation. Some might scoff and make fun of these steps as being excessive and silly. That very well may be true if you’re focus is onmediocre. When seeking optimal, intense focus on all the required steps is necessary.

Still not convinced that biologic mis-matches are going to get you off track? A recent study about shift workdiscovered some very interesting results when they subjected test subjects to biologic mismatches based on lighting and circadian timing:

“The study found that otherwise-healthy adults who were both sleep deprived and sleeping on schedules that put them at odds with their biological clocks — common problems for millions of people who work at night — made 32% less insulin, the hormone that controls blood sugar, than they do when they are well rested.
As a result, their blood sugar rose significantly. In some cases, those increases reached pre-diabetic levels.”
Despite all the aggressive steps, my systemic inflammation (based on my measured hsCRP) had not resolved as of March 2012. Something systemically was still producing chronic inflammation. Rather than trying to further tinker with my environment or going on a continue search for specific sourcing of the issue (environmental toxins, etc), I made a decision, that I was going to undertake an aggressive Cold Thermogenesis bio hack under the direction of Dr. Jack Kruse. The purpose of the biohack was to combine CT with my current lifestyle and the addition of aggressive Magnesium supplementation to put the “fire out” for good in myself.

Why Biologically aligned living combined with CT and Magnesium are your best friends for an optimal life and longevity – Super Charge Your Ancient Pathway!
So, I was ready to put the fire out and fix my chronic inflammation for good. Something was nagging at me to look into Magnesium further. After a close friend suffered a seizure a week after PaleoFX and almost died in a car crash with his wife and the resulting causative factor was severe Magnesium deficiency, I was strongly motivated to dig in and learn as much as possible. This person was also a very fit ‘Paleoite’ with a body fat below 10% as well.


Here’s my top 10 ahas about magnesium and how it super charges Cold Thermogensis and the activation of the Ancient Pathway. There is a strong feedback loop when you look at the research I’ve linked to in this post and below, in that most cold adapted subjects have high (above normal) levels of magnesium and are exposed (dietarily and environmentally) to sources of magnesium. The challenge today is our food sources (even from a Paleo/Primal diet) is not sufficient to provide optimal levels of magnesium due to soil depletion, lifestyle choices, . Magnesium in turn through its varied essential processes in your body ensures you get the optimal benefits of CT and your circadian biology.
1) Magnesium has been linked to optimized thermoregulation
2) Magnesium levels are tied to BAT functionality and BAT levels
3) Magnesium is needed than ATP and optimized cell membrane function
4) Magnesium is needed in order to properly metabolize EPA/DHA from Omega 3 oils – optimized O6/O3 level is critical for successful CT and cold adaption
5) Magnesium is involved in more than 300 key transactional biologic functions – you can’t be optimal with sub-optimal levels of Mg
6) Magnesium is highly anti-inflammatory
7) Magnesium is needed for optimized Hypothalmus & Pineal Gland function – Mg is essential for optimized circadian regulation
Magnesium optimization results in more optimized sleep
9) Magnesium optimization has been linked to resolving leaky gut & auto-immune issues
10) Magnesium optimization is not available by simply following a diet based on Ancestral Wellness (Paleo/Primal Diet) and requires supplementation to be optimized

Bottom Line: Optimized Magnesium levels critical to experience superior Cold Thermogensis results. Further, the biologic benefits of testing and optimizing your Magnesium levels are too critical to overlook. Its the difference between being mediocre and optimal. Why settle for an B or a C when an A is available.
My CT Protocol – 4 Weeks Post PaleoFX
As part of Cold Thermogenesis Bio Hack, I followed the Cold Thermogenesis Protocol designed by Dr. Jack Kruse with the following modifications:
1) Caveat one – and this is a big one – Cold Adaption is a very specific process to each individual. I have a background in cold water search and rescue from the Pacific Ocean. During a 10 year period, I spent almost every weekend and many nights immersed in the cold Pacific ocean in a mild hypothermic state. My mind/body have been exposed to CT before and as such I was able to skip ahead so to speak.
2) Based on #1 above, I started with 50 degree water for immersions @ 2 x day for the first week 60 minutes per session. I didn’t wear any socks or a hat and would immerse my hands/arms for the last 15-20 minutes of my sessions. I wore a compression shirt and compression shorts and placed a 20# bag of ice over my abdomen during the entire session. The ice pads – see picture below – were placed on my back mid-shoulder and remained there during the entire CT session (I used two pads and had my wife bring in the fresh one at 30 mins into the CT session). I did this for seven days straight.
3) Beginning in week #2, I shifted back to 1 X per day @ 60 minutes – most due to scheduling. Week 2 was another 7 days straight.
4) Weeks 3 & 4 continued daily sessions for 60 minutes – increased the CT ‘gradient/intensity’ by decreasing the water temperature down to 45-46 degrees as a starting point by pre-cooling the water for 60-75 minutes with 40#s of ice (see picture below).
5) I would always eat a high protein meal prior to CT and drink a glass of ice water as well.
6) Beginning in week 1, I began an aggressive Mg supplementation program as follows:
a) Daily am – Mg Threonate @ 200mg orally / Mg Chloride Daily pm – 60 minutes foot soaks w 2 oz / ZMA Supplement w 450mg Mg & 400mg Mg Glycinate.
b) I also have added Grass Fed Beef Liver (offal) and other sources of dietary Mg into my diet.
7) After Week 4, I moved into a maintenance CT mode @ 2-3 times per week at 60 minutes each session.
8) Additional supplementation of Krill Oil @ 750mg daily, Curcumin @ 750mg and Resveratrol @ 1000mg


CT – My HS-CRP Test Results and Summary
I found that I cold adapted fairly quickly – my supposition is that this was based on my strong familiarity with being cold/mildly hypo thermic previously. That said, I had (and still have) very strong bouts of muscle shivering. The initial week, these would last as long as 60-75 minutes as my body would re-heat/defend my core temperature and fire up my furnace. The muscle shivering returned again stronger and with longer duration as I increased the intensity of CT with colder water.
The results – per the HS-CRP test are ‘dramatic’ to say the least. After a 9 month highly elevated trend, the HS-CRP is down by more than 90% and a level lower than the first time it was ever tested!
3/2012 – PaleoFX event – 5.4
4/2012 – Post CT/Magnesium – 0.44
Note: I will be completing further testing for magnesium deficiency via hair analysis in May along with an RBC test for key minerals and ratios. Look for a future blog post/discussion on the results of that.
Citations:
Magnesium and inflammation: lessons from animal models] Clin Calcium. 2005 Feb;15(2):245-8. Review. Japanese. PMID: 15692164 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE
Magnesium and thermoregulation. I. Newborn and infant. Is sudden infant death syndrome a magnesium-dependent disease of the transition from chemical to physical thermoregulation?
The Epidemic of Magnesium Deficiency – Magnesium Deficiency in Type 2 Diabetes
A Magnesium Deficiency Increases Cancer Risk Significantly
MAGNESIUM IN ONCOGENESIS AND IN ANTI-CANCER TREATMENT: INTERACTION WITH MINERALS AND VITAMINS
Magnesium Deficiency and the Mind/Body Connection – Glucose Regulation and Inflammation
Inflammation and Pain Management with Magnesium – Magnesium for Life

Magesium Man Blog – Morley Robbins
Magnesium Deficiency ‘The Stealth Bomber in Chronic Disease” – Podcast
“Magnesium Medicine” – Mark Sircus, AC., O.M.D
Identification and Importance of Brown Adipose Tissue in Adult Humans
Cold-Activated Brown Adipose Tissue in Healthy Men
“Brown Fat, Triggered by Cold or Exercise, May Yield a Key to Weight Control.” The New York Times, 01/24/12

“Brown Fat Furnishes Physiological Furnace.” Scientific American (podcast), 1/25/12
“How Now, Brown Fat? Scientist Are Onto a New Way to Lose Weight.” TIME, 01/26/12
“Brown Fat – Keeps You Warm And Keeps You Slim.” Medical News Today, 01/25/12
“Brown fat could explain why some stay toasty in the cold.” CTV Edmonton, 01/24/12
“Swimming with Brown Fat,” SwimmingWorld, 01/25/12
“How does brown fat differ from the other fat in your body? [b]ShareCare, answered by Dr. Michael Roizen

Edited by niner, 29 April 2012 - 06:20 AM.

[Donnie]

And so I go back to my old hypothesis that upregulation of mitochondrial metabolism is responsible for both the marked increase in demand for O2 and drastically cut calories, while subjectively feeling warm --nay, hot!-- despite the actual decrease in body temperature.

That's right. The body temperature goes down on low calories in the cold. It is reported in the literature and is confirmed by anecdotal experiences, including mine. It is common for fasters to feel hot, especially on dry fasts, but the very few who actually bothered to check their temperature with a thermometer, reported that instead of the expected rise, they saw not even normal, but lower than normal temperatures.

I've been looking for a way to decrease calorie consumption a bit without loosing more mass. Is this sort of tweaking of metabolism part of the contradiction in cold exposure you're hinting towards? And could it be done without fasting; just CRON?

The woman you posted a picture of looks fairly fat for someone consuming 600 kcal/day. I mean that in the nicest way, possibly perceived.

[xEva]

I've been looking for a way to decrease calorie consumption a bit without loosing more mass. Is this sort of tweaking of metabolism part of the contradiction in cold exposure you're hinting towards? And could it be done without fasting; just CRON?

I really don't know. I was mystified by this paradoxical state myself and was reluctant to post about this for fear of not being believed. To me it happens only when I fast. ..well, I start and then may be fail after couple of days and eat a grapefruit...then attempt to continue the fast (it's not always smooth sailing) and so it may go on for a while. A stretch for me did not last more than couple of weeks here and there. But I think this could be explored. There is a sweet spot, which is hard to nail. If you eat just a bit over the that unknown very small limit, you're out of the state and out of energy.

Something happens there, which is very strange. Cold weather is absolute must, otherwise it does not work for me. There is something in cold air. It feels like manna and you just can't get enough, so delicious it is (this is actually a common experience for long-term fasters).

Re CR, there is a small group on a Russian forum who claim to be living this, apparently in all seasons, but they are not too scientifically minded and, even tough they count calories they are not concerned about the "optimal nutrition" at all. They call it "active CR".

I wish I could understand more about this myself, so if you find out, please post.

The woman you posted a picture of looks fairly fat for someone consuming 600 kcal/day. I mean that in the nicest way, possibly perceived.

You mean Shatalova? (an old woman running on the snow in a bathing suit). Yes, she did claim to have lived off 600 kcal. She died recently at age of 95 (I know). The take on her is that she was probably legit, but from what I understand, she heavily relied on mind-body techniques (meditation, qigong-type exercises, yoga) which she taught her 'patients' but did not publicize like she did her diet and mainstream-type exercise (long treks). The result is that despite many published books and substantial following during her life, there is no people now achieving her results without her personal guidance. I saw couple of videos of her, one with a 'patient'. To me she had a mark of a 'master', in a good sense. She had abilities to lead small groups and influence people in a unique way. In China they would call her a qigong master. My understanding is that it was her native gift.

[Donnie]

Well, there's not much science lying around this subject. At least as far as I'm aware of. So there's not much else to do than listen to these anecdotal reports like yours and self experiment.

There may be something in the papers MR mentions in his post on this thread: http://arc.crsociety...2,179933,179966 , but I for one can't access them.

I'll be experimenting myself with low chronic cold exposure and cold showers.

[xEva]

I'll be experimenting myself with low chronic cold exposure and cold showers.

The key is the movement, not cold. Cold makes it easier. It is harder to fast in warm weather and impossible in hot. You get into the state by fasting.

EDIT: If you just CR in the cold without movement, you simply will get miserable and chilly, barely shuffling your legs. If you throw in some vigorous exercise --you will know when: to warm up-- then you may find yourself in this paradoxical state. That's when cold comes in. It is hard to exercise in warm weather on very low cals. But cold air (i.e. vigorous breathing) somehow makes all this magic possible. Post your experiments.

I would experiment with O2 supply, like people with emphysema use. If it is just O2, then you will know. Then maybe you could drop exercise, even though it's a good thing to get blood and lymph running (substitute with massage?) That would be interesting experiments.

Edited by xEva, 06 October 2012 - 05:17 PM.

[xEva]

There may be something in the papers MR mentions in his post on this thread: http://arc.crsociety...2,179933,179966 , but I for one can't access them.

That's an interesting article, but IMHO there are several wrong assumptions that Mr Fadden makes.

First, he forgets that there are several --we don't even know how many-- metabolic modes a human body can operate under (ex: ketogenic diet, complete fast, lots food, lotsa carbs, etc.) A switch from one metabolic mode to the next does not happen overnight. The minimum change is affected within 3 days. Maximum drastic change that I am aware of is the complete adaptation to fasting, which for a normally eating human takes 2 - 3 weeks.

A metabolism is not a circuit board where you just flip a switch and a different circuit is activated. A body is like a water tank with an elaborate sluice system, which consists of layers fascia and various membranes that line all the vessels and organs and control in which direction what molecules move. This simple fact is often overlooked, especially by people with engineering background, who approach the body as a machine. Yes, it is a machine, but a very different machine. There is no circuitry at a gross level. You introduce changes not by flipping a switch but by diffusing a different set of chemicals in the environment of a cell, which is the plasma and interstitial fluid.

In such an environment the changes take place gradually. And it's actually more complicated that that (different metabolic modes each come with their own gene expression, etc) but the take home message is that metabolism is not like a switch board and that any change will take time and the greater the change, the greater time is required (but practice makes everything faster and easier, of course).

Now, in the article, he does not appear to be aware of different metabolic modes. He assumes that it is all about the same. What he modulates is 'the same state', while he should be looking for a different metabolic state. He does not give time for adaptation for cold, but judges result right away

Then he says : "You can't, as a mammal, lower your metabolism simply by choosing a colder environment."

You can do a lot to mammalian metabolism by modulating environment, you just need to give it some time to adapt.

That's why the advice sometimes seen on this list
that CR practitioners should keep themselves a
bit chilly is probably wrong if your aim is to
slow metabolism.

Indeed, why suffer, if you can go for a brisk walk outside and come back warmed up and energized as if after a meal?

If your brain senses you are
feeling chilly, it's not going to let your core
temperature drop without a fight. It will just
start burning more fuel. Your metabolic rate will
go up, even as your core temperature remains the
same or perhaps drops very slightly. Personally
I'd rather burn more gas in my furnace than ATP
in my mitochondria. I can get a new furnace when
it wears out. I can't get a new body.

But what is metabolic rate? How is it measured, within which framework? Is it simply the number of calories? Are we really sure that most of our metabolism is normally run on mitochondria, as it is touted? Maybe that's the assumption based on studies of cells in culture? Otherwise, how to explain a surcharge in energy once we adapt to much less food? What happens then to the calorie count?

To me this tells that a normal human runs more on glycolysis than on mitos and the metabolic studies are done on such glycolysis fueled people, considered 'normal' and assumed to be running on mitos. It is in comparison to this norm that the people with really upregulated mitos appear as if they are running on magic.

[xEva]

oops, I see that MR answered to Mr. Fadden in the end... I always shoot from the hip.

But I was thinking, if it is true that we mostly run on mitos, how else can it be explained? What if, in addition to upregulation of mitochondial metabolism, which does take place at onset of fasting, what if it is the "newly" discovered Primo-vascular system (a.k.a. Bonghan system) behind it? After all this is where the Chinese meridians live and qi circulates. There is a state of bigu that is characterized by a super-low calorie intake, and it is known to happen as a side effect of body-mind practices, like qigong.

The latest is here: The Primo Vascular System Its Role in Cancer and Regeneration http://www.springerl...4-0601-3?MUD=MP

. http://www.springerl...8n3151x1619v45/

The primo vascular system extends throughout the brain, spine, and nervous system and due to its role in regeneration is hypothesized to play a key role in the development of brain, spine, and nervous system conditions.

Aging and regeneration: The primo vascular system carries hormones and immune cells and appears to play a key role in natural body regeneration. This will lead to developments in tissue engineering and biomaterials, stems cells and cellular therapy, and endocrine and immune system diagnostics and treatment.

And it is a sad that I have not heard about it on this board. Worse yet, expect some naysayers to speak up "on behalf of science". But you cannot teach rats qigong and cannot make them mediate.

Edited by xEva, 06 October 2012 - 10:50 PM.

[smithx]

Apparently, brown adipocytes (which create heat and also burn fat), are known to be stimulated by cold temperatures. This research group seems to have found the mechanism, paving the way for a drug which would similarly stimulate those cells, without the cold.

http://www.doctortip...adipocytes.html

Mechanism of Fatty-Acid-Dependent UCP1 Uncoupling in Brown Fat Mitochondria

Mitochondrial uncoupling protein 1 (UCP1) is responsible for nonshivering thermogenesis in brown adipose tissue (BAT). Upon activation by long-chain fatty acids (LCFAs), UCP1 increases the conductance of the inner mitochondrial membrane (IMM) to make BAT mitochondria generate heat rather than ATP. Despite being a member of the family of mitochondrial anion carriers (SLC25), UCP1 is believed to transport H⁺ by an unusual mechanism that has long remained unresolved. Here, we achieved direct patch-clamp measurements of UCP1 currents from the IMM of BAT mitochondria. We show that UCP1 is an LCFA anion/H⁺ symporter. However, the LCFA anions cannot dissociate from UCP1 due to hydrophobic interactions established by their hydrophobic tails, and UCP1 effectively operates as an H⁺ carrier activated by LCFA. A similar LCFA-dependent mechanism of transmembrane H⁺ transport may be employed by other SLC25 members and be responsible for mitochondrial uncoupling and regulation of metabolic efficiency in various tissues.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867412011130