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How to increase 'fight' over 'flight'?

fighting conflict real world situations boxing training

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#31 suspire

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 04:30 PM

Yes sparring! But for some they never have developed the fight ability because of societal norms. So sparring can be like shooting in the dark for some. They don´t know how to mentally shift in to the fight mode and fighting can become even more discouraging.


But you could say that for pretty much anything, really. It's a process of learning and taking risks. You shouldn't spar on Day 1. My academy doesn't let new white belts off the street spar at the beginning--you need to earn your second stripe before you can spar and that usually takes a couple of months. In the meantime, you've begun to become comfortable with the movements, with training with partners and watching others spar. You're eased into it.

There may be chemical solutions. I won't discount that. But I think the best solution really has to be go out and there and do it. Spar. It'll add a lot to other dimensions of your life, too.

#32 Hip

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 06:43 PM

Or alternatively, embrace your non-angggressive, non-beligerent disposition, and take up meditation, spiritual pursuits, etc. That is what I did, and it spared me from a lot of moronic punch ups at bars and clubs, and so forth!
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#33 suspire

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 07:11 PM

Or alternatively, embrace your non-angggressive, non-beligerent disposition, and take up meditation, spiritual pursuits, etc. That is what I did, and it spared me from a lot of moronic punch ups at bars and clubs, and so forth!


I don't think they are mutually exclusive. :) I meditate daily, don't get into bar fights, and live a pretty peaceful day-to-day life. But the physical routine, and sparring, have added to my confidence in other avenues of life.

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#34 Raptor87

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 11:47 PM

Yes sparring! But for some they never have developed the fight ability because of societal norms. So sparring can be like shooting in the dark for some. They don´t know how to mentally shift in to the fight mode and fighting can become even more discouraging.


But you could say that for pretty much anything, really. It's a process of learning and taking risks. You shouldn't spar on Day 1. My academy doesn't let new white belts off the street spar at the beginning--you need to earn your second stripe before you can spar and that usually takes a couple of months. In the meantime, you've begun to become comfortable with the movements, with training with partners and watching others spar. You're eased into it.

There may be chemical solutions. I won't discount that. But I think the best solution really has to be go out and there and do it. Spar. It'll add a lot to other dimensions of your life, too.


Well it depends. With a background where one is passive, even anxious might interfere with the ability. Sure it can work and probably does for most of the guy´s. But a lot of times that requires that one begins from a "blank" state. If one has too much luggage it can become a burden. Sure you can say that about anything, e.g agoraphobia and having a background of being bullied, bad childhood and so on. It takes an amount of psychological preparation, not to mention chemical in some cases just to be able to get out of the box.

I think that some are so "aggro- phobic" and anxiously brought up through the educational system, parent´s, peers, women that it can be hard for some to get in to fight mode.

Don´t get me wrong, your suggestion was probably the best one yet. But we need to consider how to get some leverage on being repressed. I think that we need to think of various things here. Psychology, food intake, supplements, martial arts and in the worth case scenario. A very low dosage of strong androgen steroids.

I think that not being able to fight is a sign of psychological illness. Fighting is very important for our survival and when we establish boundaries. Sure physical fighting is plain out wrong in a non controlled environment. But it is important to have that instinct, especially when being assertive. Being overly anxious or too aggressive takes our sense of self control away from us. We are required to have a balance to be able to stay centred.

#35 suspire

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 01:24 AM

Ah. Fair enough. I was assuming the individual did not have any particular phobias or extenuating psychological issues. That definitely changes the equation and chemical/medical intervention may be necessary before being able to step onto a mat and train.

#36 TheFountain

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 05:40 AM

I have recently been dabbling in taking Judo. It seems like the perfect grappling art. Real hands on. Maybe that will help free me of this discomfort of human contact.

#37 suspire

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 04:49 PM

Judo is awesome. I'd strongly recommend it. It is the yin to Brazilian jiu-jitsu's(bjj) yang--the original art from which bjj developed. That said, judo is much more of a stand-up art--it focuses on throwing/taking down an opponent from a standing position. It does have a good ground game (chokes, holds, locks, etc), but it focuses less on that and more on the stand up as evidenced by the Olympics--most of the match is standing, whereas if you ever watch a bjj match, more than half of it is on the ground. I think judo would be tremendously effective in a fight, because one solid throw and you'll knock the guy out simply by the force of impact that the person hits the ground. That said, I like judo less because I'm tall and I hate being thrown--it's a long way down. :) I broke my finger in bjj via a judo throw.

Regardless judo or bjj will probably get you where you want to go. Just check out the academy you're planning to join beforehand and make sure they do live sparring.

#38 treonsverdery

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 12:39 AM

Im opposed to all of this. Think Vulcan. You have moods you like better than fighting, you have objectives that are more likely to succeed with a nonfighting approach. Think of a way you can increase the likelihood of a preferred outcome while also creating the mood you prefer.

#39 VoyPerdiendo

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 02:32 PM

Deprenyl. After about 30-40 days of taking it at 5mg/day I noticed that I have become increasingly irritant and aggressive. I could go from being calm to full on rage in less than 5 seconds, I would just lose it (when someone/something pissed me off); I wasn't even close to being like this before. I was never the fighter type before, I was rather the flighter, despite being proficient at martial arts and having sparring experience (boxing, mma). But this time some guy was provoking me first verbally, which I ignored, and then he started pushing me around and I just snapped and attacked him. Now every time I see him he's nice to me :-D


Someone already mentioned this - I believe that aggressiveness has something to do with noradrenaline. And I have noticed that smoking makes people more irritant/aggressive; a friend of mine recently started smoking again and the change is noticeable. Maybe something to do with MAOI effects of tobacco.


Bottom line, there's a whole range of substances you could take to become more aggressive and it all boils down to their effects on noradrenaline. You could try experimenting with a NRI (norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor) or a NDRI (norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor) as I'm suspecting that they would show the fastest effects - but I can't exactly vouch that they would indeed make a person more aggressive, I'm only suspecting this.

#40 rwac

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 02:53 PM

How come no one has mentioned being physically larger, wider (or taller but that's not in your control), more massive than your opponent?
And perhaps take up bodybuilding to push you in that direction.

You probably won't be easily intimidated by someone if you're much bigger than they are, or at least approximately the same size.

#41 Raptor87

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 12:16 AM

Look, size doesn't do shit if you are easily intimidated. I was once threatened by a bb, he was ready to fight and was puffing his chest and shit. The dude started shaking while he was doing it and I confronted him. At the end he looked like a dog squirming trying to get a away from the situation. And he was the initial aggressor! I didn't do anything, but he tested me. He wanted me to fail and he believed that his muscles would take him through it. We humans test each other for reactions. Aggression keeps us stable throughout hostile situations so we can operate through our strategy for survival. This is very obvious in institutional facilities. Criminals test each other for weakness. Something that they are known about is that they can manage through violent situations while doing what they need to do in order to survive. It is very hard for a normal person to be like they are mentally.

Aggression is a great ally and very much needed in daily life. People who have anxiety and fear tend to live with being pushed over. In turn they become negative, pessimistic, passive aggressive and so on.

#42 Raptor87

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 12:21 AM

Deprenyl. After about 30-40 days of taking it at 5mg/day I noticed that I have become increasingly irritant and aggressive. I could go from being calm to full on rage in less than 5 seconds, I would just lose it (when someone/something pissed me off); I wasn't even close to being like this before. I was never the fighter type before, I was rather the flighter, despite being proficient at martial arts and having sparring experience (boxing, mma). But this time some guy was provoking me first verbally, which I ignored, and then he started pushing me around and I just snapped and attacked him. Now every time I see him he's nice to me :-D


Someone already mentioned this - I believe that aggressiveness has something to do with noradrenaline. And I have noticed that smoking makes people more irritant/aggressive; a friend of mine recently started smoking again and the change is noticeable. Maybe something to do with MAOI effects of tobacco.


Bottom line, there's a whole range of substances you could take to become more aggressive and it all boils down to their effects on noradrenaline. You could try experimenting with a NRI (norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor) or a NDRI (norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor) as I'm suspecting that they would show the fastest effects - but I can't exactly vouch that they would indeed make a person more aggressive, I'm only suspecting this.


Well effexor didn´t do shit for me. I didn´t even sense any nor-epinephrine at all, even though it is said to promote it. I was even doing MMA at the time but I think that the drug even disrupted my sleep which ruined my workouts.

I think you are partially right about Nor-epinephrine. But if I get it too early in the day I tend to become anxious. While later on in the evening, I become very confident about myself. I think it´s a keyfactor but something else is missing from the equation.

#43 VoyPerdiendo

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 04:50 PM

You could also try taking SJW (St John's wort), a friend of mine takes it and it makes him much more angry.

#44 Raptor87

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 07:15 PM

The thing is that there is no reason in increasing aggression if the only thing you can do is be at home while being pissed, and as soon as you go out or meet someone you turn to old reflexes. So if you find anything, make sure it's not just in your head.

We need to increase the FIGHT response. That means that we need lower anxiety levels, higher aggression and being able to override old social responses.

Anyone can be pissed, even with the aid of stims, roids, or whatever. But it's when it matters that's important, I mean being able to deliver fully.

#45 yoyo

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 03:07 AM

Right/left hemisphere asymmetry, described as "avoidance/approach" in the literature. Compassion meditation. a catecholaminergic drug or judo are good ideas too.

#46 Raptor87

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:00 AM

The Social Endocrinology of Dominance: Basal Testosterone Predicts
Cortisol Changes and Behavior Following Victory and Defeat


#47 TheFountain

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 09:29 PM

Judo is awesome. I'd strongly recommend it. It is the yin to Brazilian jiu-jitsu's(bjj) yang--the original art from which bjj developed. That said, judo is much more of a stand-up art--it focuses on throwing/taking down an opponent from a standing position. It does have a good ground game (chokes, holds, locks, etc), but it focuses less on that and more on the stand up as evidenced by the Olympics--most of the match is standing, whereas if you ever watch a bjj match, more than half of it is on the ground. I think judo would be tremendously effective in a fight, because one solid throw and you'll knock the guy out simply by the force of impact that the person hits the ground. That said, I like judo less because I'm tall and I hate being thrown--it's a long way down. :) I broke my finger in bjj via a judo throw.

Regardless judo or bjj will probably get you where you want to go. Just check out the academy you're planning to join beforehand and make sure they do live sparring.

I've been taking Judo for about 4 months now and I do love it. The only problem I am having is applying the technique I am learning during Rondori (the sparring part). I usually find myself reaching stalemate with my classmates. Or being thrown. But I do throw them down every so often as well.

I find I am adapting to the ground game a little better than the stand up game, it seems my ground cardio is treating me a little better. This might be due to the fact that I have been on my feet 8 hours a day, 5 days a week for work. I recently changed my schedule and maybe being off 3 days a week will yield better results as ar as stand up stamina goes.

I must differ with you on one point however. BJJ evolved from Judo, not vice versa. So BJJ is the yin to the Judo Yang.

#48 Raptor87

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 04:05 AM

Judo is a great sport, that's it.

I have done some research on the subject Fight/Flight/Passive:stay numb- responses for years now. I have come to the conclusion that if your are a person who become very passive and sense too much anxiety when a fight is about to take place, then nothing will help you become a fighter. Being a fighter is a born trait. It's that simple. There are no drugs, traning or anything that will help.

I recently watched this documentary and it's fun watching a fighting personality type. Most of them acknowledge that they love fighting.

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#49 TheFountain

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 08:33 AM

Judo is a great sport, that's it.

I have done some research on the subject Fight/Flight/Passive:stay numb- responses for years now. I have come to the conclusion that if your are a person who become very passive and sense too much anxiety when a fight is about to take place, then nothing will help you become a fighter. Being a fighter is a born trait. It's that simple. There are no drugs, traning or anything that will help.

I recently watched this documentary and it's fun watching a fighting personality type. Most of them acknowledge that they love fighting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muFWIJHDCaQ


I can't agree with it. Ronda Rousey is the UFC womens champion and she is a Judo Player. In most of her interviews, when asked if she likes hurting people, she says no. I use to fight a lot in intermediate school, and I didn't care what happened, my attitude was generally one of primate surviving in a wild environment more or less. I won some, I lost some. I didn't like or dislike it. But saw it as an occasional fact of life I had to contend with. I was conditioned out of this instinct by punishment from my parent figure for fighting. I was punished for defending myself. I am now in the process of regaining that sense of "I have a right to stand up and defend myself". Of regaining my fight over flight. Of de-conditioning myself. Also, some of the best fighters do not have 'fighters personalities". Wrong assessment. Wrong approach.

Please nobody settle on this kind of approach. This "you're either a fighter or you're not". There is a fighter in all of us that can be roused, with enough stimulation of the right hormones and in the right setting. Just push it. And challenge yourself.

Edited by TheFountain, 19 March 2013 - 08:38 AM.

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#50 Raptor87

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 04:28 AM

Why the hell are we talking Judo!? There is a difference in being a sportsman and a fighter. Iv'e met countless of people practising martial arts and know that when the deal goes down, they wont act out of fear.

You seem to have a fighting instinct but somehow overlapped it so your argument doesnt exactly hold up.

Im telling you, its better knowing how one responds in a stressful event. There is no idea in building sandcastles. Some are tough some aren't. I once saw a boxer that had trained for years walk up to the ring and when the fight started he started shaking and ultimately lost the fight. That was the end of his career and this was pro-live.

I have a friend who is just like one of those bouncers! It really doesnt matter, if it's size or anything he just loses it and turns in to a raging pitbull. But I do think he has some screws lose because he beat up his wife once. The point is that there are not many people out there that can walk in to combat with nothing in mind. he doesn't even get scared.

Believe me, if there was a magic cure I would be the first to promote it but there isn't. Some people are born passive or their anxiety is far to great to make anything of them.

Edited by Brainfogged, 20 March 2013 - 04:29 AM.


#51 TheFountain

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:53 PM

How come no one has mentioned being physically larger, wider (or taller but that's not in your control), more massive than your opponent?
And perhaps take up bodybuilding to push you in that direction.

You probably won't be easily intimidated by someone if you're much bigger than they are, or at least approximately the same size.

Because being bigger does not mean you can fight better. As proven time and time again by practitioners of MMA.

#52 rwac

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:57 PM

How come no one has mentioned being physically larger, wider (or taller but that's not in your control), more massive than your opponent?
And perhaps take up bodybuilding to push you in that direction.

You probably won't be easily intimidated by someone if you're much bigger than they are, or at least approximately the same size.

Because being bigger does not mean you can fight better. As proven time and time again by practitioners of MMA.

Sure, but it's a decent proxy.

When you meet someone your attitude to them will be determined to some extent by whether you believe you can take them.
This is probably subconscious. You will probably treat a bodybuilder with more deference than a skinny dude, all other things being equal.

There's a head game here before even the first punch is thrown, before even the first intention to throw a punch.

It probably has something to do with testosterone and dopamine levels too.

Edited by rwac, 20 March 2013 - 09:03 PM.


#53 TheFountain

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:59 PM

Why the hell are we talking Judo!? There is a difference in being a sportsman and a fighter. Iv'e met countless of people practising martial arts and know that when the deal goes down, they wont act out of fear.

You seem to have a fighting instinct but somehow overlapped it so your argument doesnt exactly hold up.

Im telling you, its better knowing how one responds in a stressful event. There is no idea in building sandcastles. Some are tough some aren't. I once saw a boxer that had trained for years walk up to the ring and when the fight started he started shaking and ultimately lost the fight. That was the end of his career and this was pro-live.

I have a friend who is just like one of those bouncers! It really doesnt matter, if it's size or anything he just loses it and turns in to a raging pitbull. But I do think he has some screws lose because he beat up his wife once. The point is that there are not many people out there that can walk in to combat with nothing in mind. he doesn't even get scared.

Believe me, if there was a magic cure I would be the first to promote it but there isn't. Some people are born passive or their anxiety is far to great to make anything of them.


Your argument seeks to convince us that some people are stronger than other's and that is that. I think it's useless. Entirely. And not helpful in the slightest to people trying to build self confidence.

People can make something of themselves, they can get in touch with the survival instinct which leads to a sense of fighting urgency. Contrary to the stuff you are saying, I have seen people who have never fought a single time in their lives stand up one solitary day and kick someones ass because that inborn instinct just came out. Whatever inhibitions were stopping them from fighting were loosened.

Everyone has a fighting instinct, just because that individual does not drag their knuckles in other aspects of their lives does not mean they lack that instinct. It could be repressed and just needs to be accessed by sparring or the right set of variables. That is what is happening with me. Granted, some days I have it, some days I don't, but that is part of the process of re-discovering the fighter in me.

Judo: Is a full contact sport. And arguably can rouse a fighters instincts a lot more than most full contact sports. Again, Ronda Rousey was an olympic bronze medalist. She went on to become the UFC womens champion. A venue that emphasizes fight over flight.

Nobody is telling that Judo Player that it is "just a sport". No, in fact she uses that 'sport' to defeat most of her opponents.

Edited by TheFountain, 20 March 2013 - 09:13 PM.


#54 TheFountain

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 09:12 PM

The thing is that there is no reason in increasing aggression if the only thing you can do is be at home while being pissed, and as soon as you go out or meet someone you turn to old reflexes. So if you find anything, make sure it's not just in your head.

We need to increase the FIGHT response. That means that we need lower anxiety levels, higher aggression and being able to override old social responses.

Anyone can be pissed, even with the aid of stims, roids, or whatever. But it's when it matters that's important, I mean being able to deliver fully.


I don't like your approach, it seeks to convince people that they are useless unless they are "born with" a certain trait that you yourself cannot even successfully define. Stop discouraging people or trying to make aggression seem like something only an elite minority are in possession of. Anyone can have aggression, controlled aggression is something else. Muhammad Ali even said in an interview that too much uncontrolled aggression works against you in a fight.

Stop making it seem like we live in a monkey ruled world. Even though some people closely resemble them. They are not the ones who make the world go round...

#55 Raptor87

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 10:41 PM

Why the hell are we talking Judo!? There is a difference in being a sportsman and a fighter. Iv'e met countless of people practising martial arts and know that when the deal goes down, they wont act out of fear.

You seem to have a fighting instinct but somehow overlapped it so your argument doesnt exactly hold up.

Im telling you, its better knowing how one responds in a stressful event. There is no idea in building sandcastles. Some are tough some aren't. I once saw a boxer that had trained for years walk up to the ring and when the fight started he started shaking and ultimately lost the fight. That was the end of his career and this was pro-live.

I have a friend who is just like one of those bouncers! It really doesnt matter, if it's size or anything he just loses it and turns in to a raging pitbull. But I do think he has some screws lose because he beat up his wife once. The point is that there are not many people out there that can walk in to combat with nothing in mind. he doesn't even get scared.

Believe me, if there was a magic cure I would be the first to promote it but there isn't. Some people are born passive or their anxiety is far to great to make anything of them.


Your argument seeks to convince us that some people are stronger than other's and that is that. I think it's useless. Entirely. And not helpful in the slightest to people trying to build self confidence.

People can make something of themselves, they can get in touch with the survival instinct which leads to a sense of fighting urgency. Contrary to the stuff you are saying, I have seen people who have never fought a single time in their lives stand up one solitary day and kick someones ass because that inborn instinct just came out. Whatever inhibitions were stopping them from fighting were loosened.

Everyone has a fighting instinct, just because that individual does not drag their knuckles in other aspects of their lives does not mean they lack that instinct. It could be repressed and just needs to be accessed by sparring or the right set of variables. That is what is happening with me. Granted, some days I have it, some days I don't, but that is part of the process of re-discovering the fighter in me.

Judo: Is a full contact sport. And arguably can rouse a fighters instincts a lot more than most full contact sports. Again, Ronda Rousey was an olympic bronze medalist. She went on to become the UFC womens champion. A venue that emphasizes fight over flight.

Nobody is telling that Judo Player that it is "just a sport". No, in fact she uses that 'sport' to defeat most of her opponents.

The thing is that there is no reason in increasing aggression if the only thing you can do is be at home while being pissed, and as soon as you go out or meet someone you turn to old reflexes. So if you find anything, make sure it's not just in your head.

We need to increase the FIGHT response. That means that we need lower anxiety levels, higher aggression and being able to override old social responses.

Anyone can be pissed, even with the aid of stims, roids, or whatever. But it's when it matters that's important, I mean being able to deliver fully.


I don't like your approach, it seeks to convince people that they are useless unless they are "born with" a certain trait that you yourself cannot even successfully define. Stop discouraging people or trying to make aggression seem like something only an elite minority are in possession of. Anyone can have aggression, controlled aggression is something else. Muhammad Ali even said in an interview that too much uncontrolled aggression works against you in a fight.

Stop making it seem like we live in a monkey ruled world. Even though some people closely resemble them. They are not the ones who make the world go round...


Now you are talking about inborn instincts. And I say that we do live in a monkey world and some are stronger. I do believe that some are born passive and can't fight even with the proper training. If you are such a type is up to you to decide, I am not calling people losers or making it personal, it's you who's putting these words in my mouth. Who you are and what you can do is up to you to decide, but try to be realistic though. I don't believe in building selfesteem confidence and do think it's total bs. What does that mean any way? If it was so attainable then we all would have it.

The closest thing to building esteem/confidence is traning to stay relaxed and focused while performing a task where these aspects are needed, but other than that I dont think there is a formula for such a thing which is mainly inherited. When I grew up there were a few guy's who started extreme sporting and always went for the adrenaline, got in to fights, chased girls etc, while other seemed to avoid such dreadful activities. Some are boen warriors, there is a gene that's even called a warrior gene. Although I don't think that we know how these genes actually work.

I have studied mental training in sports psychology for a semester and my professor said-- who also applies his traning to police officers and firefighters and not just athletes -- we talked about this very subject and he said that he had a firefighter that froze under a stressful event. He then continued saying that at that point, one has to switch careers.

Now I do believe that anyone that doesnt suffer from neurosis, phobias or has anxiety issues can build himself up if he receives some proper traning such as real full contact sparring, muay thai, BJJ, MMA can actually build p a good game and become an athlete. But for those emotionally vulnerable guy's I dont think it's possible. Also I don't think that if such a person who has trained to become a fighter, actually would manage well in a streetfight if he met a nutjob who has been fighting his whole life or is one of those people who just loses it. Iv'e seen a few of these guy's and they dont know how to quit. It's not a pretty picture!

Good luck with your traning! Also if anyone finds anything new to help guy's become real fighters and are able to prove me wrong then please keep this thread in mind:D

Edited by Brainfogged, 22 March 2013 - 10:54 PM.


#56 TheFountain

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:25 AM

Why the hell are we talking Judo!? There is a difference in being a sportsman and a fighter. Iv'e met countless of people practising martial arts and know that when the deal goes down, they wont act out of fear.

You seem to have a fighting instinct but somehow overlapped it so your argument doesnt exactly hold up.

Im telling you, its better knowing how one responds in a stressful event. There is no idea in building sandcastles. Some are tough some aren't. I once saw a boxer that had trained for years walk up to the ring and when the fight started he started shaking and ultimately lost the fight. That was the end of his career and this was pro-live.

I have a friend who is just like one of those bouncers! It really doesnt matter, if it's size or anything he just loses it and turns in to a raging pitbull. But I do think he has some screws lose because he beat up his wife once. The point is that there are not many people out there that can walk in to combat with nothing in mind. he doesn't even get scared.

Believe me, if there was a magic cure I would be the first to promote it but there isn't. Some people are born passive or their anxiety is far to great to make anything of them.


Your argument seeks to convince us that some people are stronger than other's and that is that. I think it's useless. Entirely. And not helpful in the slightest to people trying to build self confidence.

People can make something of themselves, they can get in touch with the survival instinct which leads to a sense of fighting urgency. Contrary to the stuff you are saying, I have seen people who have never fought a single time in their lives stand up one solitary day and kick someones ass because that inborn instinct just came out. Whatever inhibitions were stopping them from fighting were loosened.

Everyone has a fighting instinct, just because that individual does not drag their knuckles in other aspects of their lives does not mean they lack that instinct. It could be repressed and just needs to be accessed by sparring or the right set of variables. That is what is happening with me. Granted, some days I have it, some days I don't, but that is part of the process of re-discovering the fighter in me.

Judo: Is a full contact sport. And arguably can rouse a fighters instincts a lot more than most full contact sports. Again, Ronda Rousey was an olympic bronze medalist. She went on to become the UFC womens champion. A venue that emphasizes fight over flight.

Nobody is telling that Judo Player that it is "just a sport". No, in fact she uses that 'sport' to defeat most of her opponents.

The thing is that there is no reason in increasing aggression if the only thing you can do is be at home while being pissed, and as soon as you go out or meet someone you turn to old reflexes. So if you find anything, make sure it's not just in your head.

We need to increase the FIGHT response. That means that we need lower anxiety levels, higher aggression and being able to override old social responses.

Anyone can be pissed, even with the aid of stims, roids, or whatever. But it's when it matters that's important, I mean being able to deliver fully.


I don't like your approach, it seeks to convince people that they are useless unless they are "born with" a certain trait that you yourself cannot even successfully define. Stop discouraging people or trying to make aggression seem like something only an elite minority are in possession of. Anyone can have aggression, controlled aggression is something else. Muhammad Ali even said in an interview that too much uncontrolled aggression works against you in a fight.

Stop making it seem like we live in a monkey ruled world. Even though some people closely resemble them. They are not the ones who make the world go round...


Now you are talking about inborn instincts. And I say that we do live in a monkey world and some are stronger. I do believe that some are born passive and can't fight even with the proper training. If you are such a type is up to you to decide, I am not calling people losers or making it personal, it's you who's putting these words in my mouth. Who you are and what you can do is up to you to decide, but try to be realistic though. I don't believe in building selfesteem confidence and do think it's total bs. What does that mean any way? If it was so attainable then we all would have it.

The closest thing to building esteem/confidence is traning to stay relaxed and focused while performing a task where these aspects are needed, but other than that I dont think there is a formula for such a thing which is mainly inherited. When I grew up there were a few guy's who started extreme sporting and always went for the adrenaline, got in to fights, chased girls etc, while other seemed to avoid such dreadful activities. Some are boen warriors, there is a gene that's even called a warrior gene. Although I don't think that we know how these genes actually work.

I have studied mental training in sports psychology for a semester and my professor said-- who also applies his traning to police officers and firefighters and not just athletes -- we talked about this very subject and he said that he had a firefighter that froze under a stressful event. He then continued saying that at that point, one has to switch careers.

Now I do believe that anyone that doesnt suffer from neurosis, phobias or has anxiety issues can build himself up if he receives some proper traning such as real full contact sparring, muay thai, BJJ, MMA can actually build p a good game and become an athlete. But for those emotionally vulnerable guy's I dont think it's possible. Also I don't think that if such a person who has trained to become a fighter, actually would manage well in a streetfight if he met a nutjob who has been fighting his whole life or is one of those people who just loses it. Iv'e seen a few of these guy's and they dont know how to quit. It's not a pretty picture!

Good luck with your traning! Also if anyone finds anything new to help guy's become real fighters and are able to prove me wrong then please keep this thread in mind:D


This idea that people with mental illnesses cannot become fighters is even more wrong and elitist. It's disgusting when you think about it really.

Some of the best fighters, wrestlers, boxers out there are people who were propelled by kind of mental illness or another. I suggest you look at a Mike Tyson Biography some time. The man had more hang ups and mental problems than most. And he was one of the best fighters in the last 50 years. If you do not think he was neurotic please view some of his interviews from the mid 90s or later. You say emotionally vulnerable men cannot be fighters? He beat the shit out of the toughest guys of his time, considering how emotionally vulnerable he was. Yes he fell apart eventually, but he still could knock the shit out of most guys pound for pound. Before or after his emotional fall out.

For many people struck with anxiety, all it takes is some close proximity contact sports to shake that problem. To make things a lot better, to re-imprint the neurons with that fighters instinct. Neurosis too. As a matter of fact I think learning a fighting art is one of the best ways of overcoming or at least controlling these effects.

Think what you will about "genes' in your wet elitist dream world. But there are zero studies supporting any of it. Or that some 'got it' while other's do not. Why it is so important to you that this be true is a mystery. But I find it kind of sick and very unhelpful.

Edited by TheFountain, 26 March 2013 - 07:34 AM.


#57 Raptor87

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 11:50 AM

Why the hell are we talking Judo!? There is a difference in being a sportsman and a fighter. Iv'e met countless of people practising martial arts and know that when the deal goes down, they wont act out of fear.

You seem to have a fighting instinct but somehow overlapped it so your argument doesnt exactly hold up.

Im telling you, its better knowing how one responds in a stressful event. There is no idea in building sandcastles. Some are tough some aren't. I once saw a boxer that had trained for years walk up to the ring and when the fight started he started shaking and ultimately lost the fight. That was the end of his career and this was pro-live.

I have a friend who is just like one of those bouncers! It really doesnt matter, if it's size or anything he just loses it and turns in to a raging pitbull. But I do think he has some screws lose because he beat up his wife once. The point is that there are not many people out there that can walk in to combat with nothing in mind. he doesn't even get scared.

Believe me, if there was a magic cure I would be the first to promote it but there isn't. Some people are born passive or their anxiety is far to great to make anything of them.


Your argument seeks to convince us that some people are stronger than other's and that is that. I think it's useless. Entirely. And not helpful in the slightest to people trying to build self confidence.

People can make something of themselves, they can get in touch with the survival instinct which leads to a sense of fighting urgency. Contrary to the stuff you are saying, I have seen people who have never fought a single time in their lives stand up one solitary day and kick someones ass because that inborn instinct just came out. Whatever inhibitions were stopping them from fighting were loosened.

Everyone has a fighting instinct, just because that individual does not drag their knuckles in other aspects of their lives does not mean they lack that instinct. It could be repressed and just needs to be accessed by sparring or the right set of variables. That is what is happening with me. Granted, some days I have it, some days I don't, but that is part of the process of re-discovering the fighter in me.

Judo: Is a full contact sport. And arguably can rouse a fighters instincts a lot more than most full contact sports. Again, Ronda Rousey was an olympic bronze medalist. She went on to become the UFC womens champion. A venue that emphasizes fight over flight.

Nobody is telling that Judo Player that it is "just a sport". No, in fact she uses that 'sport' to defeat most of her opponents.

The thing is that there is no reason in increasing aggression if the only thing you can do is be at home while being pissed, and as soon as you go out or meet someone you turn to old reflexes. So if you find anything, make sure it's not just in your head.

We need to increase the FIGHT response. That means that we need lower anxiety levels, higher aggression and being able to override old social responses.

Anyone can be pissed, even with the aid of stims, roids, or whatever. But it's when it matters that's important, I mean being able to deliver fully.


I don't like your approach, it seeks to convince people that they are useless unless they are "born with" a certain trait that you yourself cannot even successfully define. Stop discouraging people or trying to make aggression seem like something only an elite minority are in possession of. Anyone can have aggression, controlled aggression is something else. Muhammad Ali even said in an interview that too much uncontrolled aggression works against you in a fight.

Stop making it seem like we live in a monkey ruled world. Even though some people closely resemble them. They are not the ones who make the world go round...


Now you are talking about inborn instincts. And I say that we do live in a monkey world and some are stronger. I do believe that some are born passive and can't fight even with the proper training. If you are such a type is up to you to decide, I am not calling people losers or making it personal, it's you who's putting these words in my mouth. Who you are and what you can do is up to you to decide, but try to be realistic though. I don't believe in building selfesteem confidence and do think it's total bs. What does that mean any way? If it was so attainable then we all would have it.

The closest thing to building esteem/confidence is traning to stay relaxed and focused while performing a task where these aspects are needed, but other than that I dont think there is a formula for such a thing which is mainly inherited. When I grew up there were a few guy's who started extreme sporting and always went for the adrenaline, got in to fights, chased girls etc, while other seemed to avoid such dreadful activities. Some are boen warriors, there is a gene that's even called a warrior gene. Although I don't think that we know how these genes actually work.

I have studied mental training in sports psychology for a semester and my professor said-- who also applies his traning to police officers and firefighters and not just athletes -- we talked about this very subject and he said that he had a firefighter that froze under a stressful event. He then continued saying that at that point, one has to switch careers.

Now I do believe that anyone that doesnt suffer from neurosis, phobias or has anxiety issues can build himself up if he receives some proper traning such as real full contact sparring, muay thai, BJJ, MMA can actually build p a good game and become an athlete. But for those emotionally vulnerable guy's I dont think it's possible. Also I don't think that if such a person who has trained to become a fighter, actually would manage well in a streetfight if he met a nutjob who has been fighting his whole life or is one of those people who just loses it. Iv'e seen a few of these guy's and they dont know how to quit. It's not a pretty picture!

Good luck with your traning! Also if anyone finds anything new to help guy's become real fighters and are able to prove me wrong then please keep this thread in mind:D


This idea that people with mental illnesses cannot become fighters is even more wrong and elitist. It's disgusting when you think about it really.

Some of the best fighters, wrestlers, boxers out there are people who were propelled by kind of mental illness or another. I suggest you look at a Mike Tyson Biography some time. The man had more hang ups and mental problems than most. And he was one of the best fighters in the last 50 years. If you do not think he was neurotic please view some of his interviews from the mid 90s or later. You say emotionally vulnerable men cannot be fighters? He beat the shit out of the toughest guys of his time, considering how emotionally vulnerable he was. Yes he fell apart eventually, but he still could knock the shit out of most guys pound for pound. Before or after his emotional fall out.

For many people struck with anxiety, all it takes is some close proximity contact sports to shake that problem. To make things a lot better, to re-imprint the neurons with that fighters instinct. Neurosis too. As a matter of fact I think learning a fighting art is one of the best ways of overcoming or at least controlling these effects.

Think what you will about "genes' in your wet elitist dream world. But there are zero studies supporting any of it. Or that some 'got it' while other's do not. Why it is so important to you that this be true is a mystery. But I find it kind of sick and very unhelpful.


Im just trying to have a realistic approach to things. Some aren't cut out to fight. I dont know what you mean by wet elitist thing? I am just relating to the world to socialbiological conclusions. If anything, there is evidence backing up that societies are built up with hierarchies. True or false!? I can't really say for sure, nobody can!!

All I can say, don't be delusional about who you are. It will end bad!

http://www.bullshido...ead.php?t=98419
http://www.fighttips...ring-class.html

#58 TheFountain

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 05:04 AM

Why the hell are we talking Judo!? There is a difference in being a sportsman and a fighter. Iv'e met countless of people practising martial arts and know that when the deal goes down, they wont act out of fear.

You seem to have a fighting instinct but somehow overlapped it so your argument doesnt exactly hold up.

Im telling you, its better knowing how one responds in a stressful event. There is no idea in building sandcastles. Some are tough some aren't. I once saw a boxer that had trained for years walk up to the ring and when the fight started he started shaking and ultimately lost the fight. That was the end of his career and this was pro-live.

I have a friend who is just like one of those bouncers! It really doesnt matter, if it's size or anything he just loses it and turns in to a raging pitbull. But I do think he has some screws lose because he beat up his wife once. The point is that there are not many people out there that can walk in to combat with nothing in mind. he doesn't even get scared.

Believe me, if there was a magic cure I would be the first to promote it but there isn't. Some people are born passive or their anxiety is far to great to make anything of them.


Your argument seeks to convince us that some people are stronger than other's and that is that. I think it's useless. Entirely. And not helpful in the slightest to people trying to build self confidence.

People can make something of themselves, they can get in touch with the survival instinct which leads to a sense of fighting urgency. Contrary to the stuff you are saying, I have seen people who have never fought a single time in their lives stand up one solitary day and kick someones ass because that inborn instinct just came out. Whatever inhibitions were stopping them from fighting were loosened.

Everyone has a fighting instinct, just because that individual does not drag their knuckles in other aspects of their lives does not mean they lack that instinct. It could be repressed and just needs to be accessed by sparring or the right set of variables. That is what is happening with me. Granted, some days I have it, some days I don't, but that is part of the process of re-discovering the fighter in me.

Judo: Is a full contact sport. And arguably can rouse a fighters instincts a lot more than most full contact sports. Again, Ronda Rousey was an olympic bronze medalist. She went on to become the UFC womens champion. A venue that emphasizes fight over flight.

Nobody is telling that Judo Player that it is "just a sport". No, in fact she uses that 'sport' to defeat most of her opponents.

The thing is that there is no reason in increasing aggression if the only thing you can do is be at home while being pissed, and as soon as you go out or meet someone you turn to old reflexes. So if you find anything, make sure it's not just in your head.

We need to increase the FIGHT response. That means that we need lower anxiety levels, higher aggression and being able to override old social responses.

Anyone can be pissed, even with the aid of stims, roids, or whatever. But it's when it matters that's important, I mean being able to deliver fully.


I don't like your approach, it seeks to convince people that they are useless unless they are "born with" a certain trait that you yourself cannot even successfully define. Stop discouraging people or trying to make aggression seem like something only an elite minority are in possession of. Anyone can have aggression, controlled aggression is something else. Muhammad Ali even said in an interview that too much uncontrolled aggression works against you in a fight.

Stop making it seem like we live in a monkey ruled world. Even though some people closely resemble them. They are not the ones who make the world go round...


Now you are talking about inborn instincts. And I say that we do live in a monkey world and some are stronger. I do believe that some are born passive and can't fight even with the proper training. If you are such a type is up to you to decide, I am not calling people losers or making it personal, it's you who's putting these words in my mouth. Who you are and what you can do is up to you to decide, but try to be realistic though. I don't believe in building selfesteem confidence and do think it's total bs. What does that mean any way? If it was so attainable then we all would have it.

The closest thing to building esteem/confidence is traning to stay relaxed and focused while performing a task where these aspects are needed, but other than that I dont think there is a formula for such a thing which is mainly inherited. When I grew up there were a few guy's who started extreme sporting and always went for the adrenaline, got in to fights, chased girls etc, while other seemed to avoid such dreadful activities. Some are boen warriors, there is a gene that's even called a warrior gene. Although I don't think that we know how these genes actually work.

I have studied mental training in sports psychology for a semester and my professor said-- who also applies his traning to police officers and firefighters and not just athletes -- we talked about this very subject and he said that he had a firefighter that froze under a stressful event. He then continued saying that at that point, one has to switch careers.

Now I do believe that anyone that doesnt suffer from neurosis, phobias or has anxiety issues can build himself up if he receives some proper traning such as real full contact sparring, muay thai, BJJ, MMA can actually build p a good game and become an athlete. But for those emotionally vulnerable guy's I dont think it's possible. Also I don't think that if such a person who has trained to become a fighter, actually would manage well in a streetfight if he met a nutjob who has been fighting his whole life or is one of those people who just loses it. Iv'e seen a few of these guy's and they dont know how to quit. It's not a pretty picture!

Good luck with your traning! Also if anyone finds anything new to help guy's become real fighters and are able to prove me wrong then please keep this thread in mind:D


This idea that people with mental illnesses cannot become fighters is even more wrong and elitist. It's disgusting when you think about it really.

Some of the best fighters, wrestlers, boxers out there are people who were propelled by kind of mental illness or another. I suggest you look at a Mike Tyson Biography some time. The man had more hang ups and mental problems than most. And he was one of the best fighters in the last 50 years. If you do not think he was neurotic please view some of his interviews from the mid 90s or later. You say emotionally vulnerable men cannot be fighters? He beat the shit out of the toughest guys of his time, considering how emotionally vulnerable he was. Yes he fell apart eventually, but he still could knock the shit out of most guys pound for pound. Before or after his emotional fall out.

For many people struck with anxiety, all it takes is some close proximity contact sports to shake that problem. To make things a lot better, to re-imprint the neurons with that fighters instinct. Neurosis too. As a matter of fact I think learning a fighting art is one of the best ways of overcoming or at least controlling these effects.

Think what you will about "genes' in your wet elitist dream world. But there are zero studies supporting any of it. Or that some 'got it' while other's do not. Why it is so important to you that this be true is a mystery. But I find it kind of sick and very unhelpful.


Im just trying to have a realistic approach to things. Some aren't cut out to fight. I dont know what you mean by wet elitist thing? I am just relating to the world to socialbiological conclusions. If anything, there is evidence backing up that societies are built up with hierarchies. True or false!? I can't really say for sure, nobody can!!

All I can say, don't be delusional about who you are. It will end bad!

http://www.bullshido...ead.php?t=98419
http://www.fighttips...ring-class.html


I find your approach an escapist route for people with anxiety or other forms of mental illness. There is an old saying, the only way out is in. Numbing the problem will not resolve it.

When you say

"I am just relating to the world to socialbiological conclusions."

This has nothing to do with my statement that there are no studies to date which confirm the IDEA that 'genes' dictate ones outcome in life. Genetically, ANYBODY, barring serious physical deformity or disability can become a fighter if they put their mind and guts to it. If MMA has taught us a damned thing it's that you cannot be a winner every day of your life. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Some more than other's, some less than other's, but every damned one of them is still a fighter and so can anyone else be who is not handicapped! Nobody is genetically designed to be a constant winner or a constant loser. That is complete bullshit.

Reality is not black and white. It is somewhere in the middle. Like the lifeline scene in donnie darko, where he tells the teacher to stick her black and white non-sense up her anus.

Edited by TheFountain, 29 March 2013 - 05:07 AM.


#59 TheFountain

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 04:51 AM

I want to add that supplemental tribulus officionalis really brings out the man in me too. At least it contributes to this.

#60 illuminatus104

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 02:02 PM

I want to add that supplemental tribulus officionalis really brings out the man in me too. At least it contributes to this.


Tribulus has been found to be bunk in terms of test increase





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