35 replies to this topic

[ClarkSims]

I have seen a link posted a few times about a university study that compared various measures of quality for different brands of olive oils. Does anyone have that link?
Thanks,
Clark

[niner]

I don't have the link, but olive oil quality is dependent on the crop and production methods, so it will vary from year to year. The people who run AmphoraNueva know what they're doing, so you probably won't go wrong there. If the olive oil is for everyday use, then I like to have a high polyphenol oil, but not so high that I hate the taste. I want to enjoy it, or at the very least not have it wreck an otherwise good dish. If the oil is for making c60-oo, I don't care about the polyphenol level, I just want it to be fresh.

[ClarkSims]

Here is a study from UC Davis
http://olivecenter.u...nal 071410 .pdf
As far as making good C60 / OO, I am guessing the main thing is making sure the oil isn't oxidized.
The relevant test are:


Free Fatty Acids Units: % as oleic acid. Limit: ≤ 0.8.

Peroxide Value (PV) should be less than 20 mEq O2/kg

UV Absorption (oxidized oils absorb more UV)
Units: K1%1cm.
Limits for K232,
K268 and ΔK: ≤
2.50, ≤ 0.22,
and ≤ 0.01.

1,2-Diacylglycerol Content (DAGs)

Units: % total 1,2- and
1,3-diacylglycerols.
Australian Olive
Association (AOA) limit:
≥ 40.


Pyropheophytins (PPP)

Units: % total
pheophytins.
Australian Olive
Association (AOA) limit:
≤ 15


There is another study from Australia mentioned, that I am still looking for.

[ClarkSims]

Here is a nice article that discusses the various grades of olive oils. The refined olive oils, have issues with oxidation, because they have been heated.

http://www.charlespo...tra_Virgin.aspx

[ClarkSims]

The people who run AmphoraNueva know what they're doing, so you probably won't go wrong there.

They have quite a selection

http://www.amphoranu...atalog&parent=1

[tintinet]

I'm cheap, so I use Kirkland Organic (see the UC Davis study) or Trader Joe's California Estate (see Consumer Reports testing.)

Edited by tintinet, 24 March 2013 - 12:38 AM.

[ClarkSims]

I'm cheap, so I use Kirkland Organic (see the UC Davis study) or Trader Joe's California Estate (see Consumer Reports testing.)

Perchance do you have a link where I could download the consumer reports study? Is it behind a paywall, or open to the public?
I let my subscription to Consumer Reports lapse.

[tintinet]

The official CR report is available to subscribers only, but the salient results have been widely reported in the popular press.

[tintinet]

http://www.ksat.com/...nz/-/index.html


For example.

[Mind]

Here is a nice article that discusses the various grades of olive oils. The refined olive oils, have issues with oxidation, because they have been heated.

http://www.charlespo...tra_Virgin.aspx

Dammit! I have used a lot of these brands off-n-on for years. I guess "virgin" isn't that bad of a downgrade from "extra virgin", but some of these are being cut with shitty oils. Shocking that 69% of olive oils labeled "extra virgin" are not "extra virgin". You would think such systemic labeling fraud would be prosecuted.

I have now switched to this brand, after smelling it in the C60oo mixture that is being used for our LongeCity Mprize@home project. I had a good pungent olive oil smell. Still, I think it is imported, so I am not sure how the company knows if they are getting a top quality product.

[niner]

Looking at the chart on Poliquin's site, I'm actually less worried about the health consequences of the EVOO fraud problem. The most likely reason for not qualifying as EVOO were flavor/taste/aroma issues, rather than objectively bad chemistry. There were a lot of cases where the diacylglycerols weren't quite high enough, but that's not a health issue, it's more just a characteristic of first press or something. It's not something that's particularly good or bad for you, so not having enough isn't a problem in itself. The PPP (pyropheophytin) values might represent a problem. They indicate that the oil has been heated, however, it doesn't correlate strongly with the oxidation measures K232 and K268, so the if the oil was heated, it was probably in the absence of oxygen. Some of the oils were oxidized, which is clearly a problem, and some had pretty low polyphenols, which mean that you're probably missing many of the health benefits, along with getting a boring tasting oil. People have a long-standing high opinion of Italian oils, but the Italian oils didn't look so good here. Some of the California oils put in a very good showing. I've noticed the California oils providing a lot of bang for the buck, too. I didn't even know that Mazola made olive oil- they're famous for their industrial corn oil, aren't they? They looked pretty bad here. (oxidized low poly crap...)

The best bet is probably to buy from olive oil experts like Veronica Foods/AmphoraNueva. I doubt they would steer you wrong. I wish they'd post the chemistry on all their oils, though. Any site that posts chemistry is probably worth a look.

[Turnbuckle]

I have now switched to this brand, after smelling it in the C60oo mixture that is being used for our LongeCity Mprize@home project. I had a good pungent olive oil smell. Still, I think it is imported, so I am not sure how the company knows if they are getting a top quality product.

I wouldn't buy a brand sold in a clear bottle.

[mikeinnaples]

I used that exact chart when buying my EVOO. I went with the Bariani because it had the highest poly count. Despite one of its samples being classified at Virgin rather than Extra Virgin, this was due to taste only and not oil quality. I am glad I did, it is extremely peppery and yummy.

[motorcitykid]

All the more reason to fire up the pallet with a peppery olive oil. A timely study cited in sciencedaily pinpoints how oleocanthal protects the brain against Alzheimers and Dementia.

http://www.scienceda...30320095423.htm

Here's a piece of it: "They describe tracking the effects of oleocanthal in the brains and cultured brain cells of laboratory mice used as stand-ins for humans in such research. In both instances, oleocanthal showed a consistent pattern in which it boosted production of two proteins and key enzymes believed to be critical in removing Aβ from the brain. "Extra-virgin olive oil-derived oleocanthal associated with the consumption of Mediterranean diet has the potential to reduce the risk of AD or related neurodegenerative dementias," the report concludes.

Edited by motorcitykid, 26 March 2013 - 02:40 AM.

[Adaptogen]

I wouldn't buy a brand sold in a clear bottle.

I keep seeing this caution. Is there really that much degradation from fluorescent grocery store lights?

My most recent bottle of olive oil is unfiltered, in a clear bottle, but tastes many times more pungent/polyphenolic than any of the bertolli extra virgins ive gotten, which are sold in tinted bottles.


well, i do now see that all three bertolli olive oil samples failed the extra virgin test

Edited by Adaptogen, 26 March 2013 - 07:34 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

I wouldn't buy a brand sold in a clear bottle.

I keep seeing this caution. Is there really that much degradation from fluorescent grocery store lights?

My most recent bottle of olive oil is unfiltered, in a clear bottle, but tastes many times more pungent/polyphenolic than any of the bertolli extra virgins ive gotten, which are sold in tinted bottles.


well, i do now see that all three bertolli olive oil samples failed the extra virgin test

Fluorescent lamps produce some UV, and can produce a lot of they are damaged in any way. But it doesn't take a lot--

Changes induced by UV radiation during virgin olive oil storage.

Even small doses of UV radiation induced oxidation of the virgin olive oil samples.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16787029

Edited by Turnbuckle, 26 March 2013 - 11:56 AM.

[Mind]

Well, I suppose clear glass is a minor problem. I store mine in a box in the basement until I use it. I probably go through a bottle in a couple of weeks. Wondering how much degradation occurs during that time?

[Mind]

Another thread about rampant olive oil fraud.

[hav]

Here's the UC Davis final report which says this on how it compares to the earlier report posted above:

In contrast to the first UC Davis report of July 2010, which analyzed 52 samples of 14 brands, this report’s aim was to analyze fewer brands but more samples of each brand so as to improve the analysis of each brand. In addition, this study used two IOC-accredited sensory panels to conduct analysis based on the IOC sensory standards for extra virgin olive oil, in contrast to the July study, which used a single sensory panel to analyze samples.

Additionally, this report made an attempt to correlate sensory results with more objective chemical analysis mentioning this:

The strongest relationship between chemical analysis and negative sensory results was found in the DAGs test (65 percent), followed by the PPP test (49 percent), UV K268 for conjugated trienes (34 percent), UV K232 for conjugated dienes (12 percent) and UV∆K (6 percent). The FFA, FAP and PV tests did not confirm negative sensory results. The IOC standards would be more effective in assessing and enforcing olive oil quality by including the DAGs and PPP standards

Personally I'd like to see more reliance on objective chemical analysis in favor of subjective sensory opinion. I have a sense that the Australians are ahead of everyone in that regard. I've heard they do testing down to the individual olive tree level and prune out the low performers.

Howard
saepe fallitur, dubitare nuquam

[somecallmetim]

My vote for best olive oil would have to go to a company called Castillo de Piñar. They offer an organic extra virgin olive oil that is harvested by hand, cold press-extracted within hours of harvest, and they bottle the oils in miron glass. Need I say more?

Oh yea, they come in 500 & 250 ml size bottles, which are perfect for our experimental applications. The only downside is, is that the miron glass is violet in color, so seeing the C60oo turn the reddish hue would be a problem. I guess once you receive the bottle of oil, you would have to transfer it into a clear bottle - at least you know the oil is the freshest it can be when you receive it.

[ihatesnow]

I use this and don't trust foreign olive oil http://www.californiaoliveranch.com/ http://www.businessi...oil-2012-1?op=1 http://www.npr.org/b...ive?ft=1&f=1003

[Michael]

Looking at the chart [from the UC Davis 2010 olive oil bust] on Poliquin's site, I'm actually less worried about the health consequences of the EVOO fraud problem. The most likely reason for not qualifying as EVOO were flavor/taste/aroma issues, rather than objectively bad chemistry. There were a lot of cases where the diacylglycerols weren't quite high enough, but that's not a health issue, it's more just a characteristic of first press or something. It's not something that's particularly good or bad for you, so not having enough isn't a problem in itself. The PPP (pyropheophytin) values might represent a problem. They indicate that the oil has been heated, however, it doesn't correlate strongly with the oxidation measures K232 and K268, so the if the oil was heated, it was probably in the absence of oxygen. Some of the oils were oxidized, which is clearly a problem, and some had pretty low polyphenols, which mean that you're probably missing many of the health benefits, along with getting a boring tasting oil.

I'd suggest that your evaluation of the state of the field is being skewed upward by the fact that UCD simply used the official Int'l Olive Commission standard for EVOO, which is a laughably low bar. Look at the Table again and apply a more reasonable standard based on what's easily doable using modern harvesting, milling, and storage methods (PV <9 instead of ≤20; K232 ≤2 instead of ≤2.5; K270 ≤0.18 instead of ≤0.20), and phenolic values shown to dose-dependently improve risk factors (≥350 ppm), and you'll get a more accurate evaluation of the field.

The best bet is probably to buy from olive oil experts like Veronica Foods/AmphoraNueva. I doubt they would steer you wrong. I wish they'd post the chemistry on all their oils, though.

I am, as most of you will know, a huge fan of VF. They're quite transparent about chemistry: if the full chem on a given oil isn't listed on the AN website, call and ask — they'll give it to you. Occasionally, they will put an oil for sale before they have the full analysis back (heretofore DAGs and PPP, often oleic acid (not FFA), and some other specialized tests have been done in Australia, though they may begin doing more of them in CA with UCD opening up their labs for commercial testing), which increases lag time for these parameters; and, no one is perfect at updating websites.

[Florin]

The best bet is probably to buy from olive oil experts like Veronica Foods/AmphoraNueva. I doubt they would steer you wrong. I wish they'd post the chemistry on all their oils, though.

I am, as most of you will know, a huge fan of VF. They're quite transparent about chemistry: if the full chem on a given oil isn't listed on the AN website, call and ask — they'll give it to you. Occasionally, they will put an oil for sale before they have the full analysis back (heretofore DAGs and PPP, often oleic acid (not FFA), and some other specialized tests have been done in Australia, though they may begin doing more of them in CA with UCD opening up their labs for commercial testing), which increases lag time for these parameters; and, no one is perfect at updating websites.

Are there independent lab analyses available that confirm VF's olive oil chemistry claims?

[Hebbeh]

I can say every bottle of high polyphenol Amphora Nueva I've bought kicks ass compared to anything I've ever bought in the supermarket in regards to the characteristic throat burning tongue tingling taste only experienced from a high polyphenol oil. Nothing in the supermarket comes close. Of course, that is an acquired taste but once you get to appreciate that quality of oil, the supermarket stuff just doesn't cut it. It's like trying to compare quality wine to box wine. Taste test wins every time.

They have a very loyal following, buy direct from the grower, and have been in business for like 90 years. All of those things for a reason.

[Michael]

My vote for best olive oil would have to go to a company called Castillo de Piñar. They offer an organic extra virgin olive oil that is harvested by hand, cold press-extracted within hours of harvest, and they bottle the oils in miron glass. Need I say more?

Well, the only information they provide on the chemistry of their oils is the claim (not linked to any chemical analysis) of a FFA <0.2 (by which one trusts they mean <0.2%), so it could be harvested by hand and cold pressed within hours of harvest, and still be crap . And, of course, you have nothing but their say-so on production. The use of Miron glass is actually a bad sign, since (a) mauve glass is actually likely one of the worst colors for olive oil storage containers, and (b) the fact that they would use it suggests that they may be engaged in other un- or counterproductive practices under the spell of woo.

I use this and don't trust foreign olive oil http://www.californiaoliveranch.com/ http://www.businessi...oil-2012-1?op=1 http://www.npr.org/b...ive?ft=1&f=1003

I wouldn't get too hung up on that. The rate of junk oil amongst imported brands is mostly because most imported brands are crummy oil produced for the mass market, whereas California producers do high-quality boutique production. The issue, IOW, isn't that Euro oil is bad and domestic oil is good, but that boutique oil is generally good and mass-market oil is generally poor.

Are there independent lab analyses available that confirm VF's olive oil chemistry claims?

It depends on what you mean by "independent." All of their oils are sent away for testing at 'independent' labs, most usually Modern Olives (particularly for PPP and DAGs), and the results are prominently displayed in their client stores and at AmphoraNueva, with most stores maintaining binders with copies of the CoAs for inspection. However, one could of course say that this isn't 'independent' because VF is paying for it! This is a tricky thing to get around, as someone has to pay for the analysis. VF has not been included in an attempt at independent audit-testing like Consumer Reports, Choice, or even the UC Davis study (which, as critics like to point out, was funded by the Califonia Olive Oil Association). While there have been a couple of disputed and very small attempts (3E and the Extra Virgin Alliance), there is no real equivalent in the olive oil industry to Consumer Labs or the USDA organic seal (which, of course, retain some conflict of interest problems built into their structure) aside from the Int'l Olive Commission and North American Olive Oil Association, who reward and prop up mediocre oil with a low-bar, early-testing pass/fail system with no disclosure, instead of supporting real quality or transparency.

[free10]

http://www.mcevoyran...olio-nuovo.html

[hav]

... The use of Miron glass is actually a bad sign, since (a) mauve glass is actually likely one of the worst colors for olive oil storage containers, and (b) the fact that they would use it suggests that they may be engaged in other un- or counterproductive practices under the spell of woo.

This study suggests that only UV filtering at 417 and 668 nm may be relevant in choosing glass by color for olive oil:

Luminescence spectroscopic observation of singlet oxygen formation in extra virgin olive oil as affected by irradiation light wavelengths

The virgin olive oil in methylene chloride (20% w/v, oxygen saturated) was irradiated at the 301, 417, 454, 483, and 668 nm, then the emission at 1268 nm, singlet oxygen dimole decaying was observed. The result showed the highest production of (1)O(2) with light irradiation at 417 nm, and followed by at 668 nm in virgin olive oil, indicating that pheophytin a and chlorophyll a were the most responsible components for the production of singlet oxygen. The UV light irradiations at the wavelength of 200, 250, and 300 nm did not induce any detectable luminescence emission at 1268 nm, but 350 nm produced weak emission at 1269 nm. The quantity of (1)O(2) produced with excitation at 350 nm was about 1/6 of that of irradiation at 417 nm.

Miron violet glass might not be optimal, but it looks like its not bad. Transmission at 417 nm is somewhere between 0-10% while it blocks everything at 668 nm:

 41.jpg   166.28KB   9 downloads

Probably the best, although more expensive choice would be adding a red (668 nm) colored pigment to a commonly available clear glass formulation that absorbs only UV wavelengths. Most photographers never take the clear UV filters off their lenses.

Howard

Edited by hav, 18 December 2013 - 08:26 PM.

[Florin]

Are there independent lab analyses available that confirm VF's olive oil chemistry claims?

It depends on what you mean by "independent." All of their oils are sent away for testing at 'independent' labs, most usually Modern Olives (particularly for PPP and DAGs), and the results are prominently displayed in their client stores and at AmphoraNueva, with most stores maintaining binders with copies of the CoAs for inspection. However, one could of course say that this isn't 'independent' because VF is paying for it! This is a tricky thing to get around, as someone has to pay for the analysis. VF has not been included in an attempt at independent audit-testing like Consumer Reports, Choice, or even the UC Davis study (which, as critics like to point out, was funded by the Califonia Olive Oil Association). While there have been a couple of disputed and very small attempts (3E and the Extra Virgin Alliance), there is no real equivalent in the olive oil industry to Consumer Labs or the USDA organic seal (which, of course, retain some conflict of interest problems built into their structure) aside from the Int'l Olive Commission and North American Olive Oil Association, who reward and prop up mediocre oil with a low-bar, early-testing pass/fail system with no disclosure, instead of supporting real quality or transparency.

CoAs are a start. I wasn't able to locate them at VF's or AN's website though. Can VF/AN provide CoAs via email?

[Michael]

... The use of Miron glass is actually a bad sign, since (a) mauve glass is actually likely one of the worst colors for olive oil storage containers, and (b) the fact that they would use it suggests that they may be engaged in other un- or counterproductive practices under the spell of woo.

This study suggests that only UV filtering at 417 and 668 nm may be relevant in choosing glass by color for olive oil:

Luminescence spectroscopic observation of singlet oxygen formation in extra virgin olive oil as affected by irradiation light wavelengths

the highest production of (1)O(2) with light irradiation at 417 nm, and followed by at 668 nm in virgin olive oil ... UV light irradiations at the wavelength of 200, 250, and 300 nm did not induce any detectable luminescence emission at 1268 nm, but 350 nm produced weak emission at 1269 nm. ...

I wouldn't put it quite that finely, since they only actually tested a subset of frequencies within the normal range of light (301, 417, 454, 483, and 668 nm), and only looked at one possible mechanism of harm (generation of singlet oxygen as measured by luminescence emission at 1268 nm). But it does look like those (or wavelengths close to them) are likely particularly important.

Miron violet glass might not be optimal, but it looks like its not bad. Transmission at 417 nm is somewhere between 0-10% while it blocks everything at 668 nm:

 41.jpg   166.28KB   9 downloads

That's a very poor tradeoff, because as the authors of your study show, singlet oxygen production is MUCH higher at 417 nm than 668:

if you had to pick just one, you'd clearly want to have protection against wavelengths in the lower-400s than the upper-600s; such is provided by green and especially by amber glass, as Gawel's "broken glass" study shows:

All [VF] oils are sent away for testing at 'independent' labs, most usually Modern Olives (particularly for PPP and DAGs), and the results are prominently displayed in their client stores and at AmphoraNueva, with most stores maintaining binders with copies of the CoAs for inspection.

CoAs are a start.

To be clear, having started, they're about 100 miles ahead of the competition . Try asking almost any company out there even to tell you what their chemistry is, let alone to see a copy of a CoA ...

I wasn't able to locate them at VF's or AN's website though. Can VF/AN provide CoAs via email?

No: they're somewhat paranoid about giving out physical or electronic copies for fear of fraudulent use. Again, their own and most of their client stores have them available on-site in binders for inspection.

[Florin]

CoAs are a start.

To be clear, having started, they're about 100 miles ahead of the competition . Try asking almost any company out there even to tell you what their chemistry is, let alone to see a copy of a CoA ...

I wasn't able to locate them at VF's or AN's website though. Can VF/AN provide CoAs via email?

No: they're somewhat paranoid about giving out physical or electronic copies for fear of fraudulent use. Again, their own and most of their client stores have them available on-site in binders for inspection.

Have you (or anyone else that cares to reply) seen their CoAs at any of their client stores? Trust, but verify.