9 replies to this topic

[lucid]

I'm surprised I couldn't find anything about this article on the forums!

The article is making 2 arguments:

#1 Intense calorie restriction can reverse diabetes (Probably not a surprise to anyone on the forum, especially for those who saw 'Reversing diabetes in 30 days' which plugged raw food - We mostly thought the effect was from CR not the veggies themselves)
#2 Pancreatic function is degraded by fat build up in the pancreas

Below is the article. It also go some press. Ill put links at the bottom.

Reversal of type 2 diabetes: normalisation of beta cell function in association with decreased pancreas and liver triacylglycerol.


AIMS/HYPOTHESIS:

Type 2 diabetes is regarded as inevitably progressive, with irreversible beta cell failure. The hypothesis was tested that both beta cell failure and insulin resistance can be reversed by dietary restriction of energy intake.
METHODS:

Eleven people with type 2 diabetes (49.5 ± 2.5 years, BMI 33.6 ± 1.2 kg/m(2), nine male and two female) were studied before and after 1, 4 and 8 weeks of a 2.5 MJ (600 kcal)/day diet. Basal hepatic glucose output, hepatic and peripheral insulin sensitivity and beta cell function were measured. Pancreas and liver triacylglycerol content was measured using three-point Dixon magnetic resonance imaging. An age-, sex- and weight-matched group of eight non-diabetic participants was studied.
RESULTS:

After 1 week of restricted energy intake, fasting plasma glucose normalised in the diabetic group (from 9.2 ± 0.4 to 5.9 ± 0.4 mmol/l; p = 0.003). Insulin suppression of hepatic glucose output improved from 43 ± 4% to 74 ± 5% (p = 0.003 vs baseline; controls 68 ± 5%). Hepatic triacylglycerol content fell from 12.8 ± 2.4% in the diabetic group to 2.9 ± 0.2% by week 8 (p = 0.003). The first-phase insulin response increased during the study period (0.19 ± 0.02 to 0.46 ± 0.07 nmol min(-1) m(-2); p < 0.001) and approached control values (0.62 ± 0.15 nmol min(-1) m(-2); p = 0.42). Maximal insulin response became supranormal at 8 weeks (1.37 ± 0.27 vs controls 1.15 ± 0.18 nmol min(-1) m(-2)). Pancreatic triacylglycerol decreased from 8.0 ± 1.6% to 6.2 ± 1.1% (p = 0.03).
CONCLUSIONS/INTERPRETATION:

Normalisation of both beta cell function and hepatic insulin sensitivity in type 2 diabetes was achieved by dietary energy restriction alone. This was associated with decreased pancreatic and liver triacylglycerol stores. The abnormalities underlying type 2 diabetes are reversible by reducing dietary energy intake.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21656330
http://www.telegraph...-in-a-week.html

[Mind]

Thanks for posting Lucid. Maybe no one else posted it because, like you mentioned, this comes as no surprise to people here (has been discussed here for over a decade). What is more surprising to me is that the "research community" does not know this. Type 2 diabetes is one of the most easily managed health conditions - except for the fact that Americans have almost zero self-control, and sugar is everywhere. A bad combination. What does our sick-care industry do? Hand out ineffective and expensive meds, of course.

[Mind]

Another potential sick-care "drug" for diabetes: http://www.kurzweila...es-breakthrough (diet modifications an exercise will remain orders of magnitude cheaper interventions)

Sure, it might work, but it doesn't get to the root of the problem. People will still be obese and not exercise but at least they won't suffer from the bad effects of diabetes (just a whole host of other age/obesity-related maladies). This is the way the world is going, of course, technological progress brings a world of excess/abundance. Eat, drink, smoke all you want, and medical technology will come to the rescue. I guess, as long as it is cheap and doesn't produce a significant burden on others, then it will be a win-win for society. Unfortunately, that is not yet the case, in the U.S. anyway, the sick care industry is starting to become quite a burden upon the people who work and produce wealth/value.

[theconomist]

Another potential sick-care "drug" for diabetes: http://www.kurzweila...es-breakthrough (diet modifications an exercise will remain orders of magnitude cheaper interventions)

Sure, it might work, but it doesn't get to the root of the problem. People will still be obese and not exercise but at least they won't suffer from the bad effects of diabetes (just a whole host of other age/obesity-related maladies). This is the way the world is going, of course, technological progress brings a world of excess/abundance. Eat, drink, smoke all you want, and medical technology will come to the rescue. I guess, as long as it is cheap and doesn't produce a significant burden on others, then it will be a win-win for society. Unfortunately, that is not yet the case, in the U.S. anyway, the sick care industry is starting to become quite a burden upon the people who work and produce wealth/value.

I practice CR ( after being obese most my life) lost 120 pounds, exercice, don't drink, don't smoke to avoid the many health issues that are known to all of us but imo this isn't the solution, I've always seen our lifestyle as an interim to a world where you can indulge yourself fully with no health consequences. It's not a zero sum choice (disease is unpredictable) if it was I, as well as many others, would pick 75 years of indulgence over 100 years of restriction. The solution imo is the one you outlined; medical technology that would compensate for our excess.

[lucid]

Thanks for posting Lucid. Maybe no one else posted it because, like you mentioned, this comes as no surprise to people here (has been discussed here for over a decade). What is more surprising to me is that the "research community" does not know this. Type 2 diabetes is one of the most easily managed health conditions - except for the fact that Americans have almost zero self-control, and sugar is everywhere. A bad combination. What does our sick-care industry do? Hand out ineffective and expensive meds, of course.

It really is amazing how something that is taken for granted on the forum is ground breaking in the medical research community. As you point out by calling modern diabetes treatment 'sick-care', the medical establishment 'manages the symptoms' of diabetes. You know Mind, as I think about it, i'm not sure that americans are so lazy, the guidelines for the ADA are so backwards its almost mind blowing. Telling someone with diabetes to switch to whole grains is plain nuts; i mean absolutely nuts. I think people try the doctors recommendations... see a 10% improvement (which isnt sufficient) and then say 'what the hell, I'd rather die fat and happy rather than fat and depressed.'

Diabetes can be cured, but it takes radical action in terms of calorie restriction or (i suspect) a ketogenic diet (~zero net carbs). Diabetic neuropathy, rotting toes, insulin injections, diabetic drugs, accelerated aging, increased risk of many diseases & death... The list goes on... I'll take the fix please. (Well I'm not diabetic, but I would)

I wonder how many doctors tell their patients:
"If you do X or Y, you can completely reverse diabetes OR we can start talking pills and you can struggle with the symptoms for the rest of your life."

[Mind]

Excellent post Lucid. I wonder hoow many doctors do know that diabetic symptoms and the disease itself can be radically diminished through diet and exercise. Maybe a LongeCity initiative? Getting the word out.

[lucid]

I agree mind. I think a documentary of sorts is in order, but maybe there are some effective easier options.

Half of the anti-aging reseach is also targeting diabetes; I can imagine this would be a good way to cover aging in a non-controversial way while focusing on the malaise surrounding diabetes. This community has access to all the experts to break this thing wide open.

Are there any health boot camps or retreats that we are associated with that could put people through a few regimens that the community comes up with. Watching it happen in people could make it more real than a bunch of experts harping.

Edited by lucid, 30 April 2013 - 05:42 AM.

[lucid]

Another potential sick-care "drug" for diabetes: http://www.kurzweila...es-breakthrough (diet modifications an exercise will remain orders of magnitude cheaper interventions)

Sure, it might work, but it doesn't get to the root of the problem. People will still be obese and not exercise but at least they won't suffer from the bad effects of diabetes (just a whole host of other age/obesity-related maladies). This is the way the world is going, of course, technological progress brings a world of excess/abundance. Eat, drink, smoke all you want, and medical technology will come to the rescue. I guess, as long as it is cheap and doesn't produce a significant burden on others, then it will be a win-win for society. Unfortunately, that is not yet the case, in the U.S. anyway, the sick care industry is starting to become quite a burden upon the people who work and produce wealth/value.

I practice CR ( after being obese most my life) lost 120 pounds, exercice, don't drink, don't smoke to avoid the many health issues that are known to all of us but imo this isn't the solution, I've always seen our lifestyle as an interim to a world where you can indulge yourself fully with no health consequences. It's not a zero sum choice (disease is unpredictable) if it was I, as well as many others, would pick 75 years of indulgence over 100 years of restriction. The solution imo is the one you outlined; medical technology that would compensate for our excess.

I don't think this is the solution that Mind outlined. My reading of Mind's post is: This 'pill' solution is our current fantasy, but no more real today than a dream. The solution today is to get to the root of the problem which it seems that you have done quite well at theconomist. If the 'set point' ideas about weight regulation are true, then it must be quite a challenge to keep that much weight off. Have you written about your experience?

Edited by lucid, 01 May 2013 - 05:10 AM.

[theconomist]

Another potential sick-care "drug" for diabetes: http://www.kurzweila...es-breakthrough (diet modifications an exercise will remain orders of magnitude cheaper interventions)

Sure, it might work, but it doesn't get to the root of the problem. People will still be obese and not exercise but at least they won't suffer from the bad effects of diabetes (just a whole host of other age/obesity-related maladies). This is the way the world is going, of course, technological progress brings a world of excess/abundance. Eat, drink, smoke all you want, and medical technology will come to the rescue. I guess, as long as it is cheap and doesn't produce a significant burden on others, then it will be a win-win for society. Unfortunately, that is not yet the case, in the U.S. anyway, the sick care industry is starting to become quite a burden upon the people who work and produce wealth/value.

I practice CR ( after being obese most my life) lost 120 pounds, exercice, don't drink, don't smoke to avoid the many health issues that are known to all of us but imo this isn't the solution, I've always seen our lifestyle as an interim to a world where you can indulge yourself fully with no health consequences. It's not a zero sum choice (disease is unpredictable) if it was I, as well as many others, would pick 75 years of indulgence over 100 years of restriction. The solution imo is the one you outlined; medical technology that would compensate for our excess.

I don't think this is the solution that Mind outlined. My reading of Mind's post is: This 'pill' solution is our current fantasy, but no more real today than a dream. The solution today is to get to the root of the problem which it seems that you have done quite well at theconomist. If the 'set point' ideas about weight regulation are true, then it must be quite a challenge to keep that much weight off. Have you written about your experience?

I intend to once the last 20 pounds are gone. I understand that the pill solution is a dream but it's such a nice one that would make things so much simpler. =)

[Mind]

The "pill" solution is certainly possible, and of course desirable, but it will have to be much more powerful than anything in existence today. In the U.S. sick-care system, people are more often prescribed (expensive) "pills" which don't work very well, and don't really address the underlying problem. Diet and exercise changes would be much more powerful and inexpensive.