22 replies to this topic

[eon]

Below is the prices I have seen for 1 kilogram of bulk powders of each choline:

CDP Choline - over $ 500

Alpha GPC - over $400

Choline Bitartrate - $20

DMAE - $20

I have some CDP Choline that I haven't tried yet as I am currently trying out the Alpha GPC as it is supposed to be the most potent of all cholines. Not sure why CDP would cost more if it is not up to the level of Alpha GPC.

Choline Bitartrate is supposed to be a poor man's choline. LOL. I see this included in my multi-vitamin in low dose. The company just had to use the cheapest ingredient they could find.

I'm not too familiar with DMAE but I read it works more than just being a choline. It is supposed to be good for skin as it is also used as ingredient on skin care products. It's supposed to be great for mood, memory, lucid dreaming, etc. I can't wait to try this choline out!

Edited by eon, 10 September 2013 - 06:50 AM.

[Adam90]

Only tried CDP and bitartrate so far. I never really noticed the CDP, except for the absence of racetam headaches/neck cramps.However, on megadoses (~2-3g) of bitartrate it becomes very noticeable for me (extremely vivid dreams / high frequency of lucid dreams etc.). Never tried to megadose on CDP because of its price.

Edited by Adam90, 10 September 2013 - 10:03 AM.

[eon]

my dose of alpha gpc is 500mg in the morning and 500mg at night (1 gram daily total). I stack this with inositol 2 grams daily. When I start piracetam I might stack it with CDP choline just to see how it is.

Only tried CDP and bitartrate so far. I never really noticed the CDP, except for the absence of racetam headaches/neck cramps.However, on megadoses (~2-3g) of bitartrate it becomes very noticeable for me (extremely vivid dreams / high frequency of lucid dreams etc.). Never tried to megadose on CDP because of its price.

[LabRat]

No one ever seems to mention phosphatidyl choline and b5. I always preferred that. Bitartrate can make your breath smell. DMAE gets speedy. CDP is expensive. Alpha is good, but can get a touch edgy and something about it is a bit insistent. It can give you a kind of fizzy feeling in your head, and can increase sweating. Lowering the dose, you find yourself needing more.

But phosphatidyl choline gels always seems the smoothest. With pantothenic acid, vit b5. Though I did see research linking choline to furring of the arteries, in some people. Annoyingly.

[eon]

Interesting you mentioned the sweating when using alpha gpc since I just started using it 2 days ago and I did notice the sweating. It's good for weight loss then. I read someone mentioning the use of it before workouts. I have always heard of phosphatidyl choline but never tried it. My last cycle was phosphatidyl serine with vinpocetine. I read somewhere that choline should be used for 1 week and after that ONLY when needed. I read it takes a week for it to build up in the brain and take full effect so from then on use only when needed to avoid tolerance.

When I first started phosphatidyl serine with vinpocetine I could feel it working, then I guess I built a tolerance for it after 2 weeks since I could not feel it like when I first started using it. I was only on those 2 compounds for about 1 month. I cycled off. I will cycle again as I did like both.

No one ever seems to mention phosphatidyl choline and b5. I always preferred that. Bitartrate can make your breath smell. DMAE gets speedy. CDP is expensive. Alpha is good, but can get a touch edgy and something about it is a bit insistent. It can give you a kind of fizzy feeling in your head, and can increase sweating. Lowering the dose, you find yourself needing more.

But phosphatidyl choline gels always seems the smoothest. With pantothenic acid, vit b5. Though I did see research linking choline to furring of the arteries, in some people. Annoyingly.

[Godof Smallthings]

Depends on your neurochemistry to a large extent.

If you're sensitive to choline, then soft boiled free range eggs or a small dose of ALCAR should work best. Actually, DMAE worked well for me too, but there are some indications of nasty side effects if you read up on it. I did not want to risk those so I discontinued DMAE despite initial positive effects.

I've also tried soy lecithin and Alpha GPC. Both of them caused intolerable muscle stiffness and terrible mood in me. 500 mg of Alpha GPC twice daily would make me put a gun to my head. But as you can see above, your mileage may vary. A lot.

[eon]

Well I stack Inositol with Alpha GPC. I think Inositol counters Alpha GPC's side effects? I read Inositol is great to stack with choline that's why I stacked it. Kinda like the racetams are always good to use with choline. Inositol is fine to use on its own as well.

Depends on your neurochemistry to a large extent.

If you're sensitive to choline, then soft boiled free range eggs or a small dose of ALCAR should work best. Actually, DMAE worked well for me too, but there are some indications of nasty side effects if you read up on it. I did not want to risk those so I discontinued DMAE despite initial positive effects.

I've also tried soy lecithin and Alpha GPC. Both of them caused intolerable muscle stiffness and terrible mood in me. 500 mg of Alpha GPC twice daily would make me put a gun to my head. But as you can see above, your mileage may vary. A lot.

[Adam90]

my dose of alpha gpc is 500mg in the morning and 500mg at night (1 gram daily total). I stack this with inositol 2 grams daily. When I start piracetam I might stack it with CDP choline just to see how it is.

I might try alpha GPC soon.. see what it's like.

The only reason I opted for CDP instead is because of its dopamine receptor density improving properties.

[eon]

ALCAR would be Acetyl-L-Carnitine for those who don't know. What was your dose of DMAE? I read that low dosages is good and up to 500mg to 1000mg daily. Effects take about 3 weeks I read. I read nothing but good things about it.

Soy lecithin is where phosphatydil choline is derived from if I am not mistaken? It is the active ingredient of lecithin (I read this in the book "smart drugs and nutrients"). Get that book, it is the bible of nootropics. LOL. If mixing phosphatidyl choline with another choline, Alpha GPC, I think that is too much choline. I would take 1 choline at a time. I'm no guru but I would not take 2 types of compound belonging in the same "family".

I learned this when I took a vitamin C tablet (1000mg) then I ate watermelon (very high in vitamin C), the effects=diarrhea. Do not take too much of anything.

Depends on your neurochemistry to a large extent.

If you're sensitive to choline, then soft boiled free range eggs or a small dose of ALCAR should work best. Actually, DMAE worked well for me too, but there are some indications of nasty side effects if you read up on it. I did not want to risk those so I discontinued DMAE despite initial positive effects.

I've also tried soy lecithin and Alpha GPC. Both of them caused intolerable muscle stiffness and terrible mood in me. 500 mg of Alpha GPC twice daily would make me put a gun to my head. But as you can see above, your mileage may vary. A lot.

Edited by eon, 12 September 2013 - 10:05 AM.

[eon]

anyone here stack alpha GPC with DHA (aka fish oil)? I read Alpha GPC bonds with it for a synergistic effect. I do take DHA 100mg a.m. and 100mg p.m. but I think I read somewhere of a higher dosage, somewhere around 600-900mg daily. I could do 600mg daily split 3 times daily. I do prefer the single supplement like DHA by itself as fish oil without the EPA like most supplements out there are combos.

[Janica]

Only ever tried Choline Bitartrate but it seems to do the job.

[Nootropic Milk Hotel]

no love for centrophenoxine?

[Synaesthesiac]

I take Alpha GPC with 4 -racetams and Suni. 300mg 2x a day prior to racetam administration. It works great for me, I will take an extra 300mg (300mg per capsule) when I feel the Ach headache, usually only when I use Prami or Phenyl-p that day due to their heavy Ach depleting properties. I try to take the least amount of choline supplementation as possible, even altering my diet to include more choline foods rather than another Alpha GPC capsule when I can. Less is more for me.

-Forgot to mention, I also take ALCAR 500mg 2x daily with the Alpha.

Edited by Synaesthesiac, 28 September 2013 - 12:02 AM.

[eon]

can't love something I have not tried yet. I know this compound is included in the Get Smart product: http://smart-drugs.net/Get-Smart.htm

My favorite supplier doesn't carry bulk powder centrophenoxine.

no love for centrophenoxine?

Edited by eon, 28 September 2013 - 05:48 AM.

[eon]

oh by the way, my dose of 500 mg twice daily was probably half lower than I thought. Here's why: I just saw that my Alpha GPC powder was only 50%, so doesn't that mean that if I take 1g a day, it's really only half a gram? Correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm right then I was only taking 250mg twice daily, not 500mg twice daily. The dose I had been taking did make me have that intense feeling either way so I have lowered it to 300mg daily, which is really only about 150mg (since my powder is only 50% Alpha GPC).

Depends on your neurochemistry to a large extent.

If you're sensitive to choline, then soft boiled free range eggs or a small dose of ALCAR should work best. Actually, DMAE worked well for me too, but there are some indications of nasty side effects if you read up on it. I did not want to risk those so I discontinued DMAE despite initial positive effects.

I've also tried soy lecithin and Alpha GPC. Both of them caused intolerable muscle stiffness and terrible mood in me. 500 mg of Alpha GPC twice daily would make me put a gun to my head. But as you can see above, your mileage may vary. A lot.

Edited by eon, 09 October 2013 - 06:08 AM.

[eon]

Labrat, what's your dose of phosphatidylcholine? I'm asking because my phosphatidylserine complex supplement has, per 2 softgels:

200mg phosphatidylserine
90mg phosphatidylcholine
20mg phosphatidylethanolamine

my ideal dosage of phosphatidylserine is 400mg daily, which means I'd have to take 2 softgels twice daily (4 softgels daily total). This means the other compounds would double as well. 90mg of phosphatidylcholine seem low but that amount would double to 180mg, etc. It still seem low compared to the Alpha GPC dosage I was taking before (I think it was 500mg daily). I have no experience or dosage knowledge of phosphatidylcholine, not sure if 180mg daily is high or low. I don't know much about phosphatidylethanolamine either.

Edited by eon, 14 November 2013 - 10:23 AM.

[eon]

Ok I've been using noopept for about a week with no choline. Everyone here seem to stack both. I have 3 types of choline: CDP, Alpha GPC, and DMAE. Which is supposed to be a good stack with noopept? I've never tried CDP but I have it sitting around in my cabinet. I only use 10mg of noopept twice daily.

[eon]

I'm reading the bottle of my CDP Choline and it says "Cytidine-5'-diphosphocholine is converted in the body to phosphatidylcholine". So what this means is that CDP Choline is phosphatidylcholine as well? It gets converted to it. So instead of me buying a separate phosphatidylcholine product, I could simply just stick with CDP Choline as it gets converted to phosphatidylcholine. It's like having a 2 in one drug huh? LOL.

Does this also mean that the risk for atherosclerosis with the use of CDP Choline is lessened or avoided since CDP Choline is not exactly "directly" phosphatidylcholine, but gets CONVERTED into it?

Edited by eon, 19 December 2013 - 10:44 AM.

[eon]

is soy lecithin same as phosphatidylcholine? Or is the structure completely different? Phosphatidylcholine comes from lecithin, but is it the same thing? Is phosphatidylcholine more of a phospholipid than a true choline? It does have the word "choline" so is it both choline and phospholipid?

I ask this because my Silymarin Milk Thistle supplement has soy lecithin in it as ingredients, but it's probably just capsule fillers as it didn't say the amount. I read somewhere that combining Milk Thistle with phosphatidylcholine boosts Milk Thistle's bio-availability for liver support 10-fold.

Edited by eon, 26 December 2013 - 04:47 AM.

[CholinergiX]

"Cytidine-5'-diphosphocholine is converted in the body to phosphatidylcholine" Technically yes, in Kennedy's pathway, PUFAs(omega3,6) are also needed for the reaction.

Soy lecithin is a mixture of various phospholipids including phosphatidylcholine, phosphatidylserine etc..

Choline is only part of phosphatidylcholine

[brainstorm11]

Alpha GPC or CDP choline for sure. More efficient sources (you can take less) so it ends up cheaper.

[eon]

Choline is only part of phosphatidylcholine

Ok. Not sure I've seen a product sold as just "choline". It's either, Bitartrate, CDP, Alpha GPC, DMAE, or phosphatidylcholine. I read somewhere that a B vitamin complex or folate makes CDP more absorbable. Not sure why that is.

Edited by eon, 27 December 2013 - 07:57 AM.

[eon]

I was informed by a nootropic seller that phosphatidylcholine is more lecithin than a choline, although it does have some choline in it, it's still lecithin for the most part. I read stuff about PC that it is being used to reduce fat under the skin by injection procedure. Not sure what its effect is using it orally. Anyone know?