33 replies to this topic

[bernard]

ADHD / ADD - The Absolute Thread

A large percent of people claim to be suffering from either ADHD or ADD nowadays. Some of those are just lazy guys with no game and no life, some of those are just trying to get their hands on some Rx drugs, mainly amphetamines, but some of those are also genuinely affected.

I have been living with ADHD for over 20 years. I was told by my conservative parents that I am pathologically lazy, have problems with authority and learning and am basically doing all of this just to spite them. A protest of some sort... I guess... At one point in my life I just accepted that I am a no-good lazy, unable to focus and study (basically progress in life) guy. I never thought I had a condition, I just assumed that I am of the lower quality. And yet my mind won't let me accept that I have no potential. I just feel that I can, but also that I am caged or incapacitated of sorts.

For those of you who don't have ADHD/ADD - imagine a bird with its wings tied to its body. You know you are supposed to fly and that you probably can, but it just won't happen. Your flying boils down to pathetic jumps that take all of your energy. This leads to extreme confusion and all sorts of other disorders such as depression, anxiety, bipolar and worse. It feels like prison. You open up a text book to study and at about the third sentence you feel as if the whole universe resists you. If you try to read the whole chapter it takes so much mental energy that you end up tired and you go to sleep barely remembering something. At the same time you know you are not stupid, because you feel and understand things your fellows don't. You probably have a well-developed intuition and weird interests.

So much confusion, so much anger, so much desperation - that's ADHD / ADD.

I have made no research on ADHD / ADD treatment as I've realized that I have it myself just recently. From what I know a lot of people are taking a lot of different drugs. Some with little to no effect, others with nasty side effects and lastly some with decent results. Stimulants and NRIs, DNRIs, SNRIs, are common as scientists believe norepinephrine has something to do with this disorder.

And while we are at norepinephrine, let me tell you something...
A year or so ago I had a bad panic attack. Really really bad. I had post-traumatic issues for 11-12 months. But that's not my point. The next few days immediately after I got out of the hospital I developed a strong anxiety disorder. Was afraid to sleep, afraid to stay alone and even afraid to take my vitamins. I was so scared for my life that I was constantly listening to my heart and I even lost some hair. But let me tell you this - these few weeks that I was overpumped with (nor)epinephrine I wanted to study like crazy. I started studying to become a doctor. I was so motivated and I was reading textbooks on biochemistry for hours and I was loving it and I was getting it fast and becoming a doctor and graduating from an Ivy-league university seemed quite possible. Never before in my life have I felt anything remotely similar to this. I was finally capable ! (Hint: maybe norepinephrine really has something to do with this)

While this feeling was really nice, my anxiety issues were so horrid that fixing them was my priority. I did fix them eventually with almost no drugs and now I am completely fear free. I only fear for the normal things I have good sleep I even do risky things every now and then. However... I am also back to my previous ADHD self and you know... Everything is as it used to be - bad.

Now I started this thread because this is a really horrific disease and there is just not enough information about this. Without ADHD/ADD we can achieve so much in our lives and yet we do not know how to fight this disorder. I want to gather all kinds of valuable information here and hopefully help some people get over their ADHD/ADD issues. Everything goes from herbal remedies, to drugs, research chemical, cognitive therapies, personal and misc experiences.

Let's figure this out guys ! I want my real life. I want to be a highly productive member of our society ! I bet you want this too.

[Tom_]

Guanfacine is anxiolytic and approved for ADHD. Its a second to third line treatment but clearly effective. It can be combined with more typical ADHD meds (methylphenidate, dexamphetamine or atomoxetine) and will with likely reduce the anxiety caused by them. Clonidine has a larger range of side effects but is more anxiolytic and equally effective to Guanfacine. It may be the better option for combination with the stims if they are causing a lot of bother.

Primarily noradrenalinergic TCA's are side effect heavy but effective for ADHD and much less likely to cause anxiety (they are used to treat anxiety disorders).

Meclobremide is a RIMA (reversible inhibitor of Monoamine oxidase - A). Its an antidepressant with little evidence for ADHD but theoretically effective and the studies preformed were all positive. It has a fairly good side effect profile.

Stimulants in combination with anxiolytics (typically an SSRI). Trazadone or Buspirone could be used.

Thirdly using long-release stimulants alone reduce anxiety compared to immediate release.

Selegiline can be used in lower doses but its as anxiogentic as the stims.

Edited by Tom_, 22 October 2013 - 06:32 PM.

[bernard]

Are these safe in the long-term ?

Also what are some of the latest newer drugs on this topic ? Research chemicals possibly ?

[Tom_]

A damn site safer than research chemicals that's for sure.

I'm sure I could name a few that could have efficacy in ADHD if I put my mind to it but they have no research base, are potentially lethal at normal doses and certainly not wise to use for any reason.

Guanfacine will lower blood pressure which is rarely a bad thing. Combined with a stimulant blood pressure will increase. Guanfacine is shown to be safe at up to two years for ADHD in teens and children in two large studies n=400-500 or there abouts. There are no longer term studies that I know of but theoretically its as safe as it gets. Likely safer than stimulants (although realistically the benefit of treating ADHD outweighs any risks of stim treatment).

I've not named a drug that hasn't been approved for at least depression. While I cba to check I expect all of them show in studies safety & efficacy to at least two years.

[bernard]

ADHD patients appear to not reach full cortex maturation. That's why I am also interested in neurothrophic peptides and factors:
I would love to try Low Dose Naltrexone + Cerebrolysin + DKK-1 Inhibitor. Maybe Modafinil as well.

[Tom_]

50% of suffers reach normal thickness by 10-11 years old. I've not seen evidence that this continues throughout later life in some people although there certainly may be some but from what I've read that would support the theory its something you grow out of and it would seem neither you nor me have.

Modafinil is an option for ADHD but it can and does cause anxiety. I've found it to cause some improvement in combination with 40mg of Tranlcypromine (I have intractable depression in partial remission, alongside Primary Hypersomnia (with a really fucked sleep architecture) as other major diagnoses).

[Tom_]

Why the Naltrexone tho? :S

[bernard]

Why the Naltrexone tho? :S

The link between ADHD/ADD and autoimmune disorders is fascinating. A large percentage of ADHD/ADD sufferers have autoimmune disorders such as Celiac's disease.
I for example have Hashimoto's thyroiditis and an a year-round allergy. Low-dose naltrexone therapy has shown great promise in treating autoimmune disorders such as HT.

I think we should really focus on the link between autoimmune and ADHD.

Edited by Tatsumaru, 23 October 2013 - 05:10 AM.

[Babychris]

i'm maybe just high, but I've found something that is a bit disconcerting. Let me clarify my point This guy camed tellings us that he had some events that put him in a state of over-confidence and over-motivation redarding his thirstyness of science.

You point there and there regurlaly and a bit hazardously that one is have a mania phase. But what he describes seems exactly like a mania phase, and bipolar is a real disorder and more I'm pretty sure that it's not something you can isolate, it's like a real psy(chia)logic disorder. You're right when you have the audace to correlate mental disorders with hypothetic physiological disorders, but that really scared me because I become a bit hypocondriac not in the sense I become affraid for my life, but more by the enigma of the chicked and the eggs or more accuteraly which is inducting the other, and that would be so frightening to imagine that I suffer from something I could actually treat because of my lack of time and because I'm depressed (maybe resulting of that issue ? lol)

Anyway I think we can do better to help ones, my the first. I'm actually in a manic phases induced by Rhodiola and L-glutamine (really strong stuff) though so sorry if I've said something disturbingly wrong or if my english is unreadable, it's actually more feeling than science

[Eruditus]

ADHD patients appear to not reach full cortex maturation. That's why I am also interested in neurothrophic peptides and factors:
I would love to try Low Dose Naltrexone + Cerebrolysin + DKK-1 Inhibitor. Maybe Modafinil as well.

Regardless of what neuropeptides you take they only proliferate neural growth in the hippocampus, which is the only part of your brain still capable of growing once adulthood is reached. Not saying synaptic branching is not possible, but this will not result in a denser cortex with more neurons.

[Babychris]

Would be lovely to try naltrexone and cerebrolysin, BUT DON'T TRY MODAFINIL trust me

[bernard]

I am currently building a list of nutrients and drugs that I want to try. I will start a parallel log in another thread taking each of them separately for a month to see what happens. Then if all goes well - combine. My first choice will be LDN. We will see what happens. I urge people to try stuff that might be helpful so we can progress faster.

[Lemon.]

• EXERICSE, SLEEP , DIET , NO STRESS , READ LOTS OF BOOKS , ETC ...

[bernard]

Would be lovely to try naltrexone and cerebrolysin, BUT DON'T TRY MODAFINIL trust me

Why not Modafinil ? A lot of people like it.

[bernard]

Started a Modafinil ADHD Log. I'd love for people to check it out and maybe share their own experiences of modafinil in the thread.
Modafinil ADHD Log

[bernard]

ADHD patients appear to not reach full cortex maturation. That's why I am also interested in neurothrophic peptides and factors:
I would love to try Low Dose Naltrexone + Cerebrolysin + DKK-1 Inhibitor. Maybe Modafinil as well.

Regardless of what neuropeptides you take they only proliferate neural growth in the hippocampus, which is the only part of your brain still capable of growing once adulthood is reached. Not saying synaptic branching is not possible, but this will not result in a denser cortex with more neurons.

Never assume that you know anything for a fact when it comes to science. It's extremely amateur-ish to claim understanding of neuroplasticity/neurology/neurochemistry, especially given that these sciences are very young and underdeveloped.

The very fact that any part of the brain is capable of growing at a certain period in our lives means that it can grow again if given the required environment. A person is a dissipative structure not a solid one.

Edited by Tatsumaru, 09 November 2013 - 02:00 PM.

[bernard]

OMG, This is crazy. I was very skeptic about the amalgam fillings conspiracy, but I am beginning to see a pattern. Check this out:

1. I got my first amalgam filling at the age of 6. Before that I used to read and learn like crazy. After that my ADHD symptoms progressed rapidly.
2. I also have a brother and a sister. My brother has amalgam fillings from the age of 6 my sister doesn't have any. Brother has ADD is totally lazy and has no focus or motivation at all. Sister is like a genius reads like 5 books a day, knows three foreign languages.

I am definitely putting this on my research list.

[MangekyōPeter]

Can agree with you Tatsumaru, I've also noticed that since I had my amalgam fillings put in I've also seen a rapid progression of my ADHD.

Will def be researching this more as well.

[bernard]

Furthermore I checked with my two cousins today who are brothers. Both are super smart, but one is lazy, depressed and unmotivated while the other reads books on economy all day, develops mathematical formulas and has won 3rd place in national physics challenge twice.
Again - the first one has amalgam filling the second one does not.
I understand that correlation does not imply causation, but it's something to think about. I will be looking for more examples of this...
I personally will be removing my amalgams as of next week and replacing with metal-free ceramic fillings. Unfortunately heavy metals tend to accumulate in the body and removing the fillings won't be enough. Rigorous metal detox and chelation therapy will have to take place as well. Maybe something else as well.

I will start another ADHD log separately for amalgam removal, as I don't want to dilute this thread and turn it into a amalgam removal thread of which we have plenty.

Edited by Tatsumaru, 19 November 2013 - 05:05 PM.

[CholinergiX]

Seems like I am not the only one who has mercury poisoning from silver amalgam fillings. I have them since a was 4, and have migraines, ADD/aspergers and several other problems.

For start I recommend you to take choline, magnesium and low dose sulbutiamine(100mg). You will fell the results. After this, you will be able to do more research...

From noots I recommend noopept, in your case 5mg dosage will be enough, and take it for 50 days.

[bernard]

Seems like I am not the only one who has mercury poisoning from silver amalgam fillings. I have them since a was 4, and have migraines, ADD/aspergers and several other problems.

For start I recommend you to take choline, magnesium and low dose sulbutiamine(100mg). You will fell the results. After this, you will be able to do more research...

From noots I recommend noopept, in your case 5mg dosage will be enough, and take it for 50 days.

I only have 200mg Sulbutiamine tablets in my pharmacy. Is that too large of a dose ?

[CholinergiX]

Try it and you will know . It also possible to take it every other day.

[bernard]

Check out my latest log:
Sulbutiamine ADHD Log

[TheBatman]

The problem I always run into with treating inattentiveness/low motivation is that there are so many conflicting opinions out there that it is nearly impossible to predict ahead of time what changes you need to make in order to alleviate your symptoms. For example some people think that depression and well being is all psychological - while others think that your neurotransmitters control every single part of what you do and your behavior.

Personally I think there are many causes of ADHD and most of them indirectly cause imbalances in key neurotransmitters for well being and functioning. As most of us here know, the body is very sensitive to fluctuations in energy and even a slight drop in energy is very noticeable. In certain cases, some people have food reactions (such as gluten or casein) that cause gut permeability or insulin resistance leading to lowered levels of dopamine. Another example would be low levels of Testosterone. Low levels of testosterone have also been shown to cause issues in norepinephrine and dopamine both. There are quite a few people i've talked to that say their depression was alleviated after they boosted their T levels or changed their diet to meet their specific needs. Other issues of the top of my head that cause ADHD type symptoms are thyroid issues, blood sugar issues, sleep disorders, autism, adrenal fatigue, addison's disease, celiac disease ect. all of which cause ADHD type symptoms.


I think the most effective way to treat ADHD is to

#1 Get on a regular sleep schedule going to bed and waking up at the same time everyday. Get a sleep study done if necessary.

#2 change your diet (cut out sugar, casein, and gluten) and start exercising daily to see if you notice a difference in energy levels.

#3 If 1 and 2 weren't enough, see if you can get a referral to an endocrinologist from your doctor. He'll be able to help sort out and hormonal imbalances that need to be addressed. Also CBT is probably a good idea at this point

#4 If you still have issues or the endocrinologist couldn't help you, it's time to see a psychologist and work through trial and error with different meds. Just trial and error, if its not working try something else.

#5 remember that everyone's life is hard and things will eventually work out.

[BioFreak]

Why the Naltrexone tho? :S

The link between ADHD/ADD and autoimmune disorders is fascinating. A large percentage of ADHD/ADD sufferers have autoimmune disorders such as Celiac's disease.
I for example have Hashimoto's thyroiditis and an a year-round allergy. Low-dose naltrexone therapy has shown great promise in treating autoimmune disorders such as HT.

I think we should really focus on the link between autoimmune and ADHD.

How is your hashimoto being treated? You know, people with thyroid disorders often display symptoms similar to adhd/add.

hashimoto can be triggered if there is not enough selenium but some iodine. The thyroid can not withstand the oxidative stress, and in turn the immune system over reacts. In time, your thyroid gets eaten up, your thyroid hormones go down, and you suffer until you get sufficient thyroid hormones.

If you have hashimoto, you may have had it for a long time. This can put a huge burden on your brain...

If you don't get thyroid hormones, get to your dr asap and get it fixed. If you get thyroid hormones, consider this:

Mostly t4 gets prescribed, and docs assume that it is correctly being converted into t3. That is not always the case, so both t4 and t3 should be regularly monitored and the dosage adjusted. Also, many people feel much better on thyroid extracts instead of plain t4 or t3. They may also contain t2 and t1 and other substances which may be the reason.

look at this article for high dose iodine+selenium and hashimoto:
http://perfecthealth...oiditis-part-i/

Edited by BioFreak, 19 December 2013 - 05:15 PM.

[bernard]

I don't have full blown hashimoto, I only have latent hypothyroidism - this means high TSH levels but decreasing T4 levels. Doc was suspicious about Hashimoto, so we ran TAT and MAT antibodies and the results were OK. So no Hashimoto yet.

[BioFreak]

Well then, same as me. No hashimoto, but hypo... I'd recommend you take a look at the iodine thread in the supplement forum. Hypo may be responsible for a LOT of your symptoms, and proper use of the iodine protocol might make a world of a difference for you.... what about your ft3 levels? are they on the low side too?

[Ampamet]

A very promising nonstimulant treatment for ADHD is Metadoxine Extended Release. It is currently in phase III clinical trials for ADHD by the name MG01CI from a startup biotech called Alcobra. It also just received orphan status from the FDA for Fragile X syndrome, a condition related to autism. I've posted about it several times in the brain health forum. The drug itself is a salt of pyridoxine and pyroglutamic acid; it shouldn't be hard to make. I'm trying to get together a group order for it, seems like those who posted in this thread would be interested.

[bernard]

Add me to your buyer's list. I'd be happy to fund an order. I really need improvement in my life.

[TheBatman]

OMG, This is crazy. I was very skeptic about the amalgam fillings conspiracy, but I am beginning to see a pattern. Check this out:

1. I got my first amalgam filling at the age of 6. Before that I used to read and learn like crazy. After that my ADHD symptoms progressed rapidly.
2. I also have a brother and a sister. My brother has amalgam fillings from the age of 6 my sister doesn't have any. Brother has ADD is totally lazy and has no focus or motivation at all. Sister is like a genius reads like 5 books a day, knows three foreign languages.

I am definitely putting this on my research list.

Also look into aluminum poisoning from vaccines if you've had them. They started using it as a replacement for mercury in some places.