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Can You Take Astragalus & TA65 at the Same Time?

astragalus ta65 same time together

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#1 Live4Ever1972

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 03:15 AM


Hi all, I guess my question is this: because TA65 is so expensive (but appears to behave or work differently/better than just Cycloastragenol) is it a good idea to take Astragalus Root Extract as well to enhance the effect of the 1 TA65 pill per day? I am currently taking 1 TA65 pill per day, but I wondered if this could be supplemented/enhanced by taking Astragalus Root Extract at the same time? Do you think these two will work synergistically? Will they enhance one another or is it not recommended to take both at the same time? I have read on these forums that Astragalus Root Extract has been shown to work well and even better than Cycloastragenol itself but I think TA65 still comes out on top for actually lenghtening telomeres. I was planning to supplement with Solgar's Astragalus Root Extract alongside my TA65 which fits my budget. If combining these two together is a good idea it would be a lot less expensive than taking x4 TA 65 caps per day... FYI: as I am on an anti aging regimen I am also taking: Carnosine 1g per day, Arginine 6g per day, Glutamine 6g per day, Carnitine 1g per day, Omega3 4g per day, Co Q10 200 mg per day, Vitamin C 2g per day, Vitamin D 5-10,000 IU per day, Vitamin B complex, Full spectrum minerals and "Green Vibrance" in carrot juice. Any and all thoughts from informed members would be greatly appreciated

Edited by Live4Ever1972, 13 February 2014 - 03:19 AM.

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#2 hav

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 06:16 AM

The only analysis I've seen, done by Anthony Loera of Revgenetics, showed that TA65 was cycloastragenol. There's never been any showing that it was better or different from cycloastragenol. There was a showing however, by Revgenetics I believe, that a mix of cycloastragenol and chitosan might be inferior to TA65 which does not contain chitosan. Which seems to track with the fact that cycloastragenol is lipophilic while chisosan is a water-soluble fiber that also bonds with and removes lipids from the digestive tract. On the other hand, chitosan has been shown to enhance the absorption of water-soluble components of astragalus, like astragaloside 4, presumably as long as you keep oils out of the mix. So my strategy is to take a 70% standardized astragalus extract and mix it with chitosan in the morning on an empty stomach while taking a chitosan-free cycloastragenol with some oil later in the day.

Howard

#3 Live4Ever1972

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 03:18 PM

Hi Howard,

Thanks for the reply... the info I'm referring to on Astragalus Root Extract being superior comes from empirical data from a chap with the handle Green Power who posts on this forum, his personal experience seems to suggest that Astragalus Root Extract worked better for him than just cycloastragenol etc. I've also spoken to a chap called Jim Green whose site can be seen here: http://www.greenray4...ASTRAGALOSIDEIV who also seems to suggest that Astragalus Root Extract may be superior overall than just cycloastragenol at lengthening telomeres and for anti aging.

So what I was wondering was... would the combination of TA65 (1 pill per day is just affordable) and Astragalus Root Extract be enough to do as good a job or better than the more expensive x4 pills per day option of TA 65? In terms of lengthening and preventing the shortening of telomeres...

Really what I'm suggesting is that no-one seems to have any data on using both TA 65 on the minium dose (more affordabole for more people) and combining it say with Solgar's Astragalus Root Extract for maximum overall effect... I'd also like to know from anyone if they think there are any potential negatives for doing this as well as any feedback on the positives...

Thanks all

:)

Edited by Live4Ever1972, 13 February 2014 - 03:19 PM.


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#4 hav

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 09:31 PM

I take both a standardized extract and cycloastragenol based on GreenPower's experience and the telomere length changes he mentioned in his posts here. He's one of the few that have documented and posted any actual data. If you do the same, just keep in mind that for someone whose age is in the low 40's, telemeres should still be fairly long and measured changes from telomerase activation might be relatively small. Which might make going with the less expensive extract more practical for a while until measured changes become more likely. Btw, I think Greenpower mentioned at some point that he's not the Jim Green with the web site.

Howard

#5 Live4Ever1972

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 10:05 PM

Thanks Howard...

Would you be willing to share the dosage of both standardized extract and cycloastragenol that you take? I plan to take 1 TA65 and x2 caps of Solgar's standardized extract as seen here:http://www.amazon.com/Solgar-Standardized-Astragalus-Vegetable-Capsules/dp/B0001VURKQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1392415180&sr=8-1&keywords=astragalus+solgar per day. Along with my other supplements of which some may also be telemorase activators...

I'm also keen to make sure I dont take in too much iron... I know there's quite a bit in the Astragalus...

:)

#6 Ivan Ajkula Joksimovic

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 02:19 PM

Hello Live4Ever,

In my opinion, you can safely use ta-65 and Astragalus Root Extract or some other product at the same time. But what's the point?
You can not increase the effect of TA-65 by by using another product. The only way to do that is to increase your dose. I'm not a doctor but that's my personal opinion, based on existing scientific analysis.

Read more about that here: (study by Dr. Valenzuela)

http://www.ta65docto...galus-extracts/

http://www.mdpi.com/2073-4409/2/1/57

If you read the link above, then you realize that the TA-65 remains the only telomerase activator and the other Astragalus derived products available on the market fell the test. This is why you can not increase effect of TA-65 by using something other.

Edited by Ivan Ajkula Joksimovic, 16 February 2014 - 02:20 PM.


#7 Live4Ever1972

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 05:12 PM

Anybody else willing to weigh in on this? I am trying to find out if anyone has any evidence that combining a smaller dose of the TA65 molecule (1 pill per day) with the less expensive Astragalus Root Extract could offer the same or better effects of taking, say 4 pills per day of TA65? I have seen anecdotal evidence that Astragalus Root Extract may actually work better than TA65 but wondered if anyone had any data on combining the two? It is my belief that the two may work in synergy but I lack any hard data...

:-D

#8 hav

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 08:26 PM

Thanks Howard...

Would you be willing to share the dosage of both standardized extract and cycloastragenol that you take? I plan to take 1 TA65 and x2 caps of Solgar's standardized extract as seen here:http://www.amazon.com/Solgar-Standardized-Astragalus-Vegetable-Capsules/dp/B0001VURKQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1392415180&sr=8-1&keywords=astragalus+solgar per day. Along with my other supplements of which some may also be telemorase activators...

I'm also keen to make sure I dont take in too much iron... I know there's quite a bit in the Astragalus...

:)


I take mine every other week and take antioxidants like resveratrol in the off week. I use the Now Foods 70% standardized extract and take 2 in the morning. In the evening I take 1 plus 10 mg of cyclo from Terraternal who i contacted and confirmed that there was no chitosan in their caps.

Iron presents some confounding issues. Iron is associated with longer telomeres:

Increased hepatic telomerase activity in a rat model of iron overload

But dietary iron may increase cancer and alzheimer risk:

Dietary iron, iron homeostatic gene polymorphisms and the risk of advanced colorectal adenoma and cancer
High ferritin levels have major effects on the morphology of erythrocytes in Alzheimer's disease.

Make me wonder if adding ip6, perhaps in my off-week, might be helpful.

Howard

#9 GreenPower

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 06:40 AM

As stated by T.A. Siences themselves, TA65 is actually Cycloastragenol, ref: http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=662573

 

I therefore just tested a combination very similar to what you asked about. At least it wasn't harmful and potentially it did some good, ref: http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=664160.



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#10 Live4Ever1972

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 11:42 PM

As stated by T.A. Siences themselves, TA65 is actually Cycloastragenol, ref: http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=662573

 

I therefore just tested a combination very similar to what you asked about. At least it wasn't harmful and potentially it did some good, ref: http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=664160.

 

Hi GreenPower

 

Thanks for the reply and for all of your great info... do you think that taking Astragaloside IV and Cycloastragenol (from Terraternal) would also be a good combination?  Why do you think they are saying take for no more than a year?  How long have you been taking Cyclo?

 

Thanks


Edited by Live4Ever1972, 24 May 2014 - 11:42 PM.


#11 GreenPower

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 09:28 AM

I've been using different kinds of Astragalus extracts on and off since back in 2008. I've done two "Test Runs" with Cycloastragenol. Once with 5 mg per day, which did not yield any significant results on telomere lengths in either direction. This last time, in "Test Run 8", I used 20 mg per day (and removed about all "stress" from my life for half a year) and the results were more promising.

 

Personally I'm a bit scepitcal about AIV. When Anthony Leara took it and measured his mean elomere lengths (#241, http://www.longecity...dpost&p=309384) the results were pretty bad. The negative results for Granulocytes were within the fault limit of the test (fault limit = 0,5 kb) but the the negative results for Lymphocytes were larger than the tests fault limit (fault limit = 0,3 kb). It could of course have had something to do with him taking Resveratrol together with AIV during his regimen. He hasn't, as far as I know, published any of his other results since.

 

When I used AIV I got even worse results with regards to mean telomere lengths (#550, http://www.longecity...dpost&p=360481), and I did not use Resveratrol. I did take a few vaccines during the time, but that shouldn't have mattered much. Anyway, the negative results on my Lymphocytes and a few other cell types were larger than the fault limit of the test, and my Granulocytes simply seem to have got slaughtered. Here's a comparison chart with "before and after".

 

                              Test Run 2
                     AIV 6 months with baseline

Measurement                2009-03-16   2009-09-28   Difference
Tel-Lymphocyte              7,5         7,0           -7%
Tel-Granulocytes            9,1         7,4          -19%
Tel-Naïve T-Cells           8,3         7,9           -5%
Tel-Memory T-Cells          6,3         5,6          -11%
Tel-B-Cells                 8,2         8,1           -1%
Tel-NK Cells                4,5         4,0          -11%

 

I wouldn't know if the combination of AIV and Cycloastragenol would work better. There were however some speculation that TA65 in an (maybe older?) US-version contained both AIV and Cycloastragenol - and in a study (#3, http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=360481) the mean telomere lengths seem to have gone down as well. They did not report the results in a proper manner and tried to spin something about "at least the telomere lengths of really short telomeres got relatively longer". In short the report seemed to confuse matters more than clarify anything.

 

If there are unknown adverse effects of taking a drug, you limit any harmful effects if you only use the drug for a certain time. In the Test Run above I only used AIV for half a year and my telomeres got painfully much shorter. I don't want to think about the results if I had gone on taking it for maybe two years...

 

In short, I wouldn't use Astragaloside IV until someone proved it safe without doubts.

 


Edited by GreenPower, 25 May 2014 - 09:31 AM.


#12 Live4Ever1972

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 04:45 PM

Great Info GreenPower thanks...
 
I think i will try this option:
 
20mg of Cycloastragenol per day from Terraternal here:

http://www.terratern...Cycloastragenol

and

Two caps of Solgar SFP Astragalus Root Extract Vegetable Capsules here:

http://www.amazon.co...s/dp/B0001VURKQ

Do you think this is a good combination? If so how often should I cycle?

Many thanks

#13 GreenPower

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 06:25 PM

I don't think anyone actually knows if you need to cycle and with which intervals. Many seem to do it as a precaution, though.
1. To avoid letting the body adapt to always having a high level of a certain substance, and maybe by itself downregulate whatever process this substance upregulated. However, I don't think anyone knows if the body starts "compensating" for taking Astragalus or Cycloastragenol.

2. If you have a substance which make cells divide more times than they could have done on their own, it might be possible some of these cells were in a bad condition and you can not entirely eliminate the possibility these cells might turn into cancer cells. The obvious response to this argument is that a reason people take these kind of substances is to rejuvenate their immune system - which then increase the immune systems ability to fight these cancer cells...

3. Both Astragalus and Cycloastragenol are prone to contain heavy metals, especially iron. If you're not a woman in fertile age or a blood donor, after some time you might want to have some off periods for this reason as well. And perhaps do a basic health check sometimes, just to make sure you don't get an iron overload. This is especially important if you have an inherited condition for hemachromatosis.

  • Solgar ought to be fairly safe, though. They measure the amount of iron and print it on the bottles label.
  • Terraternal measure the amounts of several heavy metals but list the contents for each batch on their website. Terraternal are however not that good at updating their website. Last time I ordered it was from batch C170 and they currently only list the contents until batch C160. If you mail them however, they will send you a PDF with the contents of the batch they currently use.

Without any objective evidence at all to support some kind of recommendation, I would perhaps do "3 months on", "1 month off", "3 months on".

 

If repeated several times, I would start taking longer "off" periods.


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#14 GreenPower

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 06:33 PM

Btw, if you have the financial ability to do so, you might want to measure the lengths of your telomeres before and then after you take a regimen. If you don't do so, you wouldn't know if the regimen had any effect.

 

If you do this, it's important to use the same lab for both measurements, because different labs might give you different results due to differences in their measurement methods. Personally I've been using a lab in Canada, but there are other labs doing these kind of measurements as well.

 

 


Edited by GreenPower, 25 May 2014 - 06:33 PM.

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#15 Live4Ever1972

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 06:46 PM

GreenPower

 

Everything you say makes complete sense.  I want to thank you for taking the time to reply so fully, you are an absolute credit to this forum.

 

I will let you and the forum know any results I have to report moving forward...

 

Many thanks again...


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#16 mrak1979

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 12:04 AM

Great discussion. I plan to combine the two also. Anybody know for sure if Cycloastragenol should be taken with food or just water?


Edited by mrak1979, 06 July 2014 - 12:06 AM.






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