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Nicotinamide Riboside (NR/Niagen) personal experience thread

nicotinamide ribo nr niagen nad niagen sinclair hpn n(r) david sinclair basis

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#2221 WinnieBeeRich

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Posted 24 September 2019 - 03:12 PM

Newbie waving hello to everyone!  :)
 
Long before I registered I've been in lurkdom checking LawrenceW's thread. Very helpful and informative indeed. Thanks to LawrenceW and everyone else for sharing his/her experiences. Couldn't wait to join you guys and I also started taking NMN a month ago. The effects? Long story....
 
 
Before taking NMN I've been on resveratrol on and off for 2 years. The effects have largely been positive. But despite the apparant increase in energy and endurance, my joints seemed to age faster than they ought to. I'm not sure if it should be attributed to resveratrol but as Sherlock Holmes said, when you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable...  :ph34r:
 
 
Since my first day on NMN I cut out all other supplements cold turkey. I can't say NMN has no effect on me but the effects fall far below my expectation. Since I switched to NMN, I began to have difficulty getting up in the morning.(resveratrol kept me energetic all day long. No need for noon naps and woke up naturally in the morning without eye being foggy)
 
 
That said I still have faith in NMN. But I need advice on what other supplements should I take along with NMN? I vaguely remember Dr. Sinclair once said for those who work out regularly, activators are not needed. But any suggestions for sedentary(AND BUSY) people? To make it worse, my joint problem doesn't allow me to do physical exercises...
 
 
Can I have resveratrol together with NMN? I heard that resveratrol is sort of in conflict with NMN in human body. But to what extent? If the extent of the "confliction" is tolerable or, neglectable, I'd love to come back to resveratrol because, despite the joint problem it caused me, resveratrol by far  did me more good than any other supplement.
 


#2222 MikeDC

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Posted 24 September 2019 - 05:34 PM


Newbie waving hello to everyone! :)

Long before I registered I've been in lurkdom checking LawrenceW's thread. Very helpful and informative indeed. Thanks to LawrenceW and everyone else for sharing his/her experiences. Couldn't wait to join you guys and I also started taking NMN a month ago. The effects? Long story....


Before taking NMN I've been on resveratrol on and off for 2 years. The effects have largely been positive. But despite the apparant increase in energy and endurance, my joints seemed to age faster than they ought to. I'm not sure if it should be attributed to resveratrol but as Sherlock Holmes said, when you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable... :ph34r:


Since my first day on NMN I cut out all other supplements cold turkey. I can't say NMN has no effect on me but the effects fall far below my expectation. Since I switched to NMN, I began to have difficulty getting up in the morning.(resveratrol kept me energetic all day long. No need for noon naps and woke up naturally in the morning without eye being foggy)


That said I still have faith in NMN. But I need advice on what other supplements should I take along with NMN? I vaguely remember Dr. Sinclair once said for those who work out regularly, activators are not needed. But any suggestions for sedentary(AND BUSY) people? To make it worse, my joint problem doesn't allow me to do physical exercises...


Can I have resveratrol together with NMN? I heard that resveratrol is sort of in conflict with NMN in human body. But to what extent? If the extent of the "confliction" is tolerable or, neglectable, I'd love to come back to resveratrol because, despite the joint problem it caused me, resveratrol by far did me more good than any other supplement.


You are in the wrong board. Personally I don’t believe in Resveratrol. NR is better than NMN because NMN needs to change to NR before entering cells. Many people cured their joint problems with NR. The commercial brand is Tru Niagen.
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#2223 LawrenceW

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Posted 24 September 2019 - 08:35 PM

NR is better than NMN because NMN needs to change to NR before entering cells.

 

Hello Mike.

 

I know that you were missing from this board for quite awhile and would like to bring you up to speed with the latest research on your statement from above.

 

https://www.nature.c...2255-018-0009-4

 

Specifically. "We have previously shown that NMN is absorbed from the gut into blood circulation within 2–3 min and transported into tissues within 10–30 min (refs 5,15). NMN is then immediately utilized for NAD+ biosynthesis, significantly increasing NAD+ content in tissues over 60 min. This fast pharmacokinetics has recently been confirmed by using doubly labelled isotopic NMN (C13-D-NMN), showing its rapid absorption and conversion to NAD+ in peripheral tissues15. It has also been proposed that NMN is converted extracellularly to NR, which is transported into cells and reconverted to NMN21. Recent studies, however, have shown that the analyses of in vivo kinetics of these NAD+ intermediates are affected by differences in sample collection and extraction methodologies22,23 (also see Methods). Therefore, it is critical to understand the mechanism by which NMN or NR is transported into cells or tissues. The fast pharmacokinetics of NMN led us to the hypothesis that there is an effective transporter that facilitates the direct uptake of NMN into the gut and other organs. Thus, we set out to identify this presumed NMN transporter in mammals."

 

Also, "We further show that Slc12a8 specifically transports NMN, but not nicotinamide riboside"


Edited by LawrenceW, 24 September 2019 - 09:19 PM.

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#2224 MikeDC

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Posted 24 September 2019 - 09:45 PM

This paper has been discussed many times. Even if the paper is correct, the amount of NMN that is transported is very small and only in the intestine. But Brenner has published a paper disputing the claims. The data was made up from noise. There is no NMN transporter.

https://www.nature.c...2255-019-0085-0
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#2225 LawrenceW

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Posted 24 September 2019 - 09:56 PM

But Brenner has published a paper disputing the claims. The data was made up from noise. There is no NMN transporter.

https://www.nature.c...2255-019-0085-0

 

And a very speedy response:

 

"We appreciate the authors’ insightful comments and the opportunity to clarify the important issues related to our recent publication2. However, their claim of ‘absence of evidence’ has no concrete foundation and the data in our article strongly support our conclusion that Slc12a8 is an NMN transporter, although there are still many interesting questions regarding the structure and function of Slc12a8 as an NMN transporter."

 

https://www.nature.c...DUOdTkcoS9pdnYo


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#2226 MikeDC

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Posted 24 September 2019 - 11:59 PM

The new Fig. 2 in the response by Grozio et al. makes matters worse because they did not analyse what an NMN standard looks like in the hepatocyte extract and decided to quantify a peak that has inexplicably drifted from a 22-min retention time to a 19-min retention time.
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#2227 MikeDC

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Posted 25 September 2019 - 12:40 AM

Brenner is doing a big study on all NAD+ precursors with double label. It will be more accurate than liu’s work.
In the meantime, look at liu’s data and decide which precursor is better.

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#2228 MikeDC

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Posted 25 September 2019 - 12:47 AM

Oral NR and NMN increased NR in circulation. NR increases more than twice as NMN.
Both NR and NMN failed to increase NMN in circulation.

NMN transporter does not even come into play here because there is no NMN in circulation.
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#2229 MikeDC

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Posted 25 September 2019 - 12:50 AM

Only very small amount of double labeled NAD+ was formed in the liver from NR. Even smaller from NMN.
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#2230 LawrenceW

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Posted 25 September 2019 - 01:08 AM

Brenner is doing a big study on all NAD+ precursors with double label. It will be more accurate than liu’s work.
In the meantime, look at liu’s data and decide which precursor is better.

 

 

Mike.

 

You can throw out Liu's NMN data because "Dr Imai points out this most recent study measured NAD+ metabolites in blood immediately, as they say freezing and thawing blood (which is what was done in the Liu study) destroys some NAD+ metabolites"


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#2231 able

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Posted 25 September 2019 - 01:27 AM

Oral NR and NMN increased NR in circulation. NR increases more than twice as NMN.
Both NR and NMN failed to increase NMN in circulation.

NMN transporter does not even come into play here because there is no NMN in circulation.

 

Dr Brenner published this study in august 2019 that found 1,000 mg NR per day in humans for 3 weeks had NO IMPACT on NR levels in the blood. 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC6702140/

 

So, according to Dr Brenner, in humans, taking NR does not increase NR outside the liver.

 

It does increase NAD+ in the blood, which is found at 100-300x the levels of NR.

 

It also increases NMN, which is 10x more prevalent than NR.

 

Look at the units of measurement.  We've long known that NR is found at minuscule levels in blood. Now we know you can't increase that by taking supplements.

 

 

NMN and NAD+ are found at significant amounts in the blood, and can be increased.  But not NR.  It seems to be useful for increasing NMN and NAD+ in the blood.

 

 

1-s2.0-S2211124719309404-gr1.jpg

 

 

 


Edited by able, 25 September 2019 - 01:57 AM.

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#2232 MikeDC

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Posted 25 September 2019 - 02:30 AM

Brenner’s name was on it. But it was done in other labs. The results are questionable. In the university of Washington study, NR was elevated for a few hours after supplementation.

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#2233 MikeDC

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Posted 25 September 2019 - 11:14 AM

If liu’s technique was bad, why was she able to measure NR and not NMN? NMN is more stable in liquid.

In addition NAD+ and NMN are secreted by liver as precursor to NR. NR and NAR are found to be intercellular NAD+ precursors from cells that can recycle NAM and cells that can’t. NRK1 has been found to be crucial for liver health even when NR is not supplemented. When NRK1 is removed, mice liver is damaged by high fat diet and NAM supplementation could not prevent it.
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#2234 mmortal03

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 02:34 AM

Looks like another form of it will be getting released at some point: https://www.reddit.c..._nad_precursor/



#2235 MikeDC

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 01:41 PM

Looks like another form of it will be getting released at some point: https://www.reddit.c..._nad_precursor/


I created a new thread on NRH. It is reduced form of NR. It is more stable than NR both in water and blood. Oral supplementation raises 25% more NAD+ in the liver. It stays stable in circulation and is bioavailable. The little NR that gets into blood degrades to NAM quickly. NRH will be much superior to NR and NMN. Of course further study will be needed concerning toxicity and Sirt1 activation. It will cost about the same as NR to manufacture.
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#2236 MikeDC

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 04:27 PM

A friend who helps people in China buying US products told me that a 30 plus autism person getting better after taking Niagen. Before taking Niagen, the person started to have violent tendencies. After taking Niagen, he has become calm and even learning to do simple things.
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#2237 banhorn

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 06:23 PM

NR Update.  I'm back on Elysium Basis after the shoulder/neck pain dissipated and all seems to be going well again. I'm not sure how accurate the blood markers at aging.AI are but I decided to put in my last blood test pre-Basis and my current blood test after almost 3 years on Basis.

 

2016 - Actual age 38 - aging.ai predicted age was 31 (Pre-Basis)

2019 - Actual age 41 - aging.ai predicted age was 30

 

No changes in physical activity or diet. I'm definitely looking older, mind you... and it sure isn't helping with my hairline!


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#2238 Gayle63

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 10:16 PM

NR Update.  I'm back on Elysium Basis after the shoulder/neck pain dissipated and all seems to be going well again. I'm not sure how accurate the blood markers at aging.AI are but I decided to put in my last blood test pre-Basis and my current blood test after almost 3 years on Basis.

 

2016 - Actual age 38 - aging.ai predicted age was 31 (Pre-Basis)

2019 - Actual age 41 - aging.ai predicted age was 30

 

No changes in physical activity or diet. I'm definitely looking older, mind you... and it sure isn't helping with my hairline!

 

I just plugged in last year's blood work into aging.ai (thanks for that link -- never knew about it before!) and I tested at 46, which is pretty cool since I'm 56. I've been taking NR for almost five years. There were a few nonessential markers I didn't have, though, but hopefully this is at least a good indication my longevity plan is working?


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#2239 MikeDC

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 11:17 PM

NAD+ precursor is something you really have to use after 40 or even 30. Niagen is really just the start. Bioavailability can be significantly improved down the road using delivery systems like softgel and liposome. In addition, NAR and NRH are probably significantly better that NR.
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#2240 bluemoon

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 01:50 PM

I just plugged in last year's blood work into aging.ai (thanks for that link -- never knew about it before!) and I tested at 46, which is pretty cool since I'm 56. I've been taking NR for almost five years. There were a few nonessential markers I didn't have, though, but hopefully this is at least a good indication my longevity plan is working?

 

I would say no since you didn't test before you started taking NR. 



#2241 Harkijn

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 10:14 AM

Just in case you missed it I point here to dr.Patrick's NR overview. It seems to me fair and thorough. I place the link here in the PE thread because the article contains a very practical reminder that   NR Chloride is not heat stable. Even just one day in transport or storage above 25 degrees C is enough for serious degradation.

https://www.foundmyf...namide-riboside


Edited by Harkijn, 05 November 2019 - 10:15 AM.


#2242 able

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 01:36 PM

Just in case you missed it I point here to dr.Patrick's NR overview. It seems to me fair and thorough. I place the link here in the PE thread because the article contains a very practical reminder that   NR Chloride is not heat stable. Even just one day in transport or storage above 25 degrees C is enough for serious degradation.

https://www.foundmyf...namide-riboside

 

 

I can't believe those degradation numbers are accurate.  

 

Research quoted in the GRAS application showed much better stability.

 

If the numbers used in Dr Patricks review are accurate, NR wouldn't be a viable commercial product as it could not be shipped without major  deterioration.


Edited by able, 05 November 2019 - 01:36 PM.

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#2243 MikeDC

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 02:09 PM

According to the gras, 92% NRCL remains after 11 months at 40 degrees.

#2244 MikeDC

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 02:13 PM

It happens that reference 15 link in the article does not work. Maybe the data is for NR without CL.

#2245 Harkijn

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 05:12 PM

When I posted in the PE tread I did not expect any discussion about this. Just a reminder that NR should at least be refrigerated after purchase.

Perhaps I should have chosen  to open yet another thread  :sad:. Michael, if you choose to move these posts please go ahead.

 

For discussion about GRAS I upload the GRAS notice. I am sure a lot can be said for and against  the stability statement. Note that it is not particularly about NR but about Niagen.

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#2246 Harkijn

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 05:47 PM

Dr. Patrick has now posted a new very interesting podcast with dr. Sinclair.

The subject of stability comes up again and I think he says that NMN as well as NR should be kept cool as well as dry. What do you think?

 

https://www.foundmyf.../david-sinclair



#2247 MikeDC

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 06:36 PM

Dr. Patrick has now posted a new very interesting podcast with dr. Sinclair.
The subject of stability comes up again and I think he says that NMN as well as NR should be kept cool as well as dry. What do you think?

https://www.foundmyf.../david-sinclair


Read the GRAS. Niagen is very stable at 40 degree and moderate humidity.

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#2248 Harkijn

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 06:49 PM

Read the GRAS. 

About the GRAS see above.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: nicotinamide ribo, nr niagen, nad, niagen, sinclair, hpn, n(r), david sinclair, basis

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