64 replies to this topic

[TheFountain]

So I was thinking about simplifying my Paleo-ish diet, instead of having all the extraneous fats, nuts and stuff, just limiting it to 5 basic foods or food groups.

 

So far the only idea I have is meat/fish, vegetables, fruit. That's like two food groups.

 

Anything else someone can think of? I wonder if the paleo diet is sustainable without extra fat from oils and dairy.  

 

And most importantly, if it will be satisfying!

Edited by TheFountain, 02 June 2014 - 05:02 PM.

[Gerrans]

I think it is best to eat with as much variety as possible.

 

For the sake of argument, my key foods would be eggs, potatoes, fruit&veg, nuts, and dairy. Nuts are not extraneous for me.

[TheFountain]

I think it is best to eat with as much variety as possible.

 

For the sake of argument, my key foods would be eggs, potatoes, fruit&veg, nuts, and dairy. Nuts are not extraneous for me.

 

According to Matt lalonde we should only eat "Meat, Tubers and Veggies". 

 

Why are nuts important to you? 

[bracconiere]

not paleo, but I thought I'd chime in with my tired rhetoric,

 

 

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[Darryl]

Joel Fuhrman calls for greens, beans, onions/garlic, mushrooms, berries, and nuts/seeds, and while I'm not a ETL acolyte, these really do stand out among foods in the literature. If still hungry, fill out the caloric requirement with lower-glycemic index starches (whole grains and whole grain pastas (not breads)) or better still, good sources of resistant starch (raw or heated/cooled potatoes, yams, glass noodles etc.) 

 

As an aside, I was able get everything except B12 and D above 100% of the RDA/AI on CRON-O-Meter with a very simple 570 calorie diet: 20 oz spinach, 10 oz white mushrooms, 6 oz tofu, 1.5 oz wheat germ. The difficult mineral to achieve was 4.7 g potassium - that's why there's so much spinach. Closer to my daily fare, is 12 oz each of potatoes (w/ skin) and black beans, 6 oz each of kale, broccoli, mushrooms, and strawberries, with 3 tbsp wheat germ, 3 tbsp flaxseed, 1 tsp wheat germ oil in the morning smoothie for a 1300 kcal caloric base that is deficient in calcium by the USDA standards, but not by mine. 

Edited by Darryl, 02 June 2014 - 07:58 PM.

[Gerrans]

 

I think it is best to eat with as much variety as possible.

 

For the sake of argument, my key foods would be eggs, potatoes, fruit&veg, nuts, and dairy. Nuts are not extraneous for me.

 

According to Matt lalonde we should only eat "Meat, Tubers and Veggies". 

 

Why are nuts important to you? 

 

 

I have read a great deal about nuts, and they all have their own little specialisms, so I eat mixed raw nuts, hoping not to miss out. I usually mix in more walnuts and Brazils.

 

On paper, for me walnuts are the best. I have associated them with abolishing tooth pain, so I think the essential polyunsaturates in them are not to be sniffed at. My lunch is always nuts and fruit.

[Chupo]

Nice pertinent tags, Fountain.  

 

Perfect for me right now is nuts and vegetables/greens with some shellfish and organ meats. 

[TheFountain]

Joel Fuhrman calls for greens, beans, onions/garlic, mushrooms, berries, and nuts/seeds, and while I'm not a ETL acolyte, these really do stand out among foods in the literature. If still hungry, fill out the caloric requirement with lower-glycemic index starches (whole grains and whole grain pastas (not breads)) or better still, good sources of resistant starch (raw or heated/cooled potatoes, yams, glass noodles etc.) 

 

As an aside, I was able get everything except B12 and D above 100% of the RDA/AI on CRON-O-Meter with a very simple 570 calorie diet: 20 oz spinach, 10 oz white mushrooms, 6 oz tofu, 1.5 oz wheat germ. The difficult mineral to achieve was 4.7 g potassium - that's why there's so much spinach. Closer to my daily fare, is 12 oz each of potatoes (w/ skin) and black beans, 6 oz each of kale, broccoli, mushrooms, and strawberries, with 3 tbsp wheat germ, 3 tbsp flaxseed, 1 tsp wheat germ oil in the morning smoothie for a 1300 kcal caloric base that is deficient in calcium by the USDA standards, but not by mine. 

But a lot of starchy, grainy foods consist of empty calories. Why is that optimal? 

 

 

I think it is best to eat with as much variety as possible.

 

For the sake of argument, my key foods would be eggs, potatoes, fruit&veg, nuts, and dairy. Nuts are not extraneous for me.

 

According to Matt lalonde we should only eat "Meat, Tubers and Veggies". 

 

Why are nuts important to you? 

 

 

I have read a great deal about nuts, and they all have their own little specialisms, so I eat mixed raw nuts, hoping not to miss out. I usually mix in more walnuts and Brazils.

 

On paper, for me walnuts are the best. I have associated them with abolishing tooth pain, so I think the essential polyunsaturates in them are not to be sniffed at. My lunch is always nuts and fruit.

 

 

I prefer roasted nuts, especially cashews and Almonds. Walnuts are the only nuts I think that are decent raw. The rest of them are hard to chew and have some phytates in them. Roasted ones are healthier in my estimation. 

Edited by TheFountain, 03 June 2014 - 03:16 AM.

[bracconiere]

 

Joel Fuhrman calls for greens, beans, onions/garlic, mushrooms, berries, and nuts/seeds, and while I'm not a ETL acolyte, these really do stand out among foods in the literature. If still hungry, fill out the caloric requirement with lower-glycemic index starches (whole grains and whole grain pastas (not breads)) or better still, good sources of resistant starch (raw or heated/cooled potatoes, yams, glass noodles etc.) 

 

As an aside, I was able get everything except B12 and D above 100% of the RDA/AI on CRON-O-Meter with a very simple 570 calorie diet: 20 oz spinach, 10 oz white mushrooms, 6 oz tofu, 1.5 oz wheat germ. The difficult mineral to achieve was 4.7 g potassium - that's why there's so much spinach. Closer to my daily fare, is 12 oz each of potatoes (w/ skin) and black beans, 6 oz each of kale, broccoli, mushrooms, and strawberries, with 3 tbsp wheat germ, 3 tbsp flaxseed, 1 tsp wheat germ oil in the morning smoothie for a 1300 kcal caloric base that is deficient in calcium by the USDA standards, but not by mine. 

But a lot of starchy, grainy foods consist of empty calories. Why is that optimal? 

 

 

I think it is best to eat with as much variety as possible.

 

For the sake of argument, my key foods would be eggs, potatoes, fruit&veg, nuts, and dairy. Nuts are not extraneous for me.

 

According to Matt lalonde we should only eat "Meat, Tubers and Veggies". 

 

Why are nuts important to you? 

 

 

I have read a great deal about nuts, and they all have their own little specialisms, so I eat mixed raw nuts, hoping not to miss out. I usually mix in more walnuts and Brazils.

 

On paper, for me walnuts are the best. I have associated them with abolishing tooth pain, so I think the essential polyunsaturates in them are not to be sniffed at. My lunch is always nuts and fruit.

 

 

I prefer roasted nuts, especially cashews and Almonds. Walnuts are the only nuts I think that are decent raw. The rest of them are hard to chew and have some phytates in them. Roasted ones are healthier in my estimation. 

 

 

 

I don't want to turn this into another meat vs. plant debate like the guy who wanted to lose weights thread, but...

 

Starchy, grainy foods have some of the highest levels of B vitamins and minerals. Meat is good for Niacin and protein. And an excess of protein gives you gout.

[scottknl]

If I want more B vitamins, I usually reach for the mushrooms.  For niacin I have some peanuts.  I only use starchy/grainy foods for empty calories when I've already met my RDA on most everything else, and even then, I'd be better off with sweet potatoes or something like that.  I like Darryl's version of diet, but to me this is only an academic exercise.  Mono food diets kill people like Steve Jobs.  It's better to eat lightly (Japanese style) from many different food groups, rather than rely on only a few staples.  That way you get the best cancer prevention.

[TheFountain]

Mono food diets kill people like Steve Jobs.  

Where did you connect these dots? Where is it said that he was on a mono diet? 

[bracconiere]

If I want more B vitamins, I usually reach for the mushrooms.  For niacin I have some peanuts.  I only use starchy/grainy foods for empty calories when I've already met my RDA on most everything else, and even then, I'd be better off with sweet potatoes or something like that.  I like Darryl's version of diet, but to me this is only an academic exercise.  Mono food diets kill people like Steve Jobs.  It's better to eat lightly (Japanese style) from many different food groups, rather than rely on only a few staples.  That way you get the best cancer prevention.

 

 

Mushrooms? what kind? I grow them, but never thought of them as a good source of b vitamins. I know iron and if exposed to UV-B light during harvest vitamin D....Peanuts are good, but I like rice bran for niacin, despite the phytic acid concerns which although I tried fermenting it first, actually lowers my blood sugar. And I don't supplement niacin and haven't come down with pelegra in the 5 years I've been eating it for niacin. And I believe they started promoting the variety thing when people were first introduced to corn, and didn't mixtamal it to release the niacin. Resulting in a epidemic of pellagra.

 

According to the USDA....you just need 56g of sweet potato to get your vitamin A, turn yellow if you eat too much of them...lol

 

 

And, excuse my ignorance but, what is a mono food diet?

Edited by bracconiere, 03 June 2014 - 05:54 AM.

[scottknl]

 

Mono food diets kill people like Steve Jobs.  

Where did you connect these dots? Where is it said that he was on a mono diet? 

 

I think it was this lecture.

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=81xnvgOlHaY

 

Plus in his biography by Walter Isaacson it talks about how he ate only oranges for about 2 years at about the time his cancer should have been forming in the mid 1970's.  He tried to be a fruitarian.  Dr Mcdougall traces the growth rate by applying estimates of growth rates of his cancer from various reports.   Eg.  First discovered in 1981 at 2 cm in size.  3 years later at surgery it was 8 cm etc...  Those aren't real numbers, but his biography had some if I recall correctly.  To my mind, it's the best explanation that I've heard of.

[scottknl]

 

If I want more B vitamins, I usually reach for the mushrooms.  For niacin I have some peanuts.  I only use starchy/grainy foods for empty calories when I've already met my RDA on most everything else, and even then, I'd be better off with sweet potatoes or something like that.  I like Darryl's version of diet, but to me this is only an academic exercise.  Mono food diets kill people like Steve Jobs.  It's better to eat lightly (Japanese style) from many different food groups, rather than rely on only a few staples.  That way you get the best cancer prevention.

 

 

Mushrooms? what kind? I grow them, but never thought of them as a good source of b vitamins. I know iron and if exposed to UV-B light during harvest vitamin D....Peanuts are good, but I like rice bran for niacin, despite the phytic acid concerns which although I tried fermenting it first, actually lowers my blood sugar. And I don't supplement niacin and haven't come down with pelegra in the 5 years I've been eating it for niacin. And I believe they started promoting the variety thing when people were first introduced to corn, and didn't mixtamal it to release the niacin. Resulting in a epidemic of pellagra.

 

According to the USDA....you just need 56g of sweet potato to get your vitamin A, turn yellow if you eat too much of them...lol

 

 

And, excuse my ignorance but, what is a mono food diet?

 

I just use plain old white button mushrooms.  I find that they have the spectrum of B vitamins that are quite helpful in balancing my diet out. 50 grams of mushrooms does wonders for my B vitamins and is reasonable in cost and tasty too.  Unfortunately it doesn't help with the niacin, but just a few grams of peanuts provides enough to balance out the diet without adding too much saturated fats.

 

Hopefully that rice bran is organic since that's where the arsenic hides in conventional crops.  www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iKgyexuo4U

 I don't take it too seriously though, since I only have 40g of cooked rice per day anyway.

 

A mono food diet is one in which people rely on one or only a few foods to supply all of their calories.  Often corn or corn products can supply a surprisingly high number of calories in the standard american diet.  Such diets often lack trace minerals, phytonutrients etc. and rarely are balanced wrt fatty acids.

[Gerrans]

 

Joel Fuhrman calls for greens, beans, onions/garlic, mushrooms, berries, and nuts/seeds, and while I'm not a ETL acolyte, these really do stand out among foods in the literature. If still hungry, fill out the caloric requirement with lower-glycemic index starches (whole grains and whole grain pastas (not breads)) or better still, good sources of resistant starch (raw or heated/cooled potatoes, yams, glass noodles etc.) 

 

As an aside, I was able get everything except B12 and D above 100% of the RDA/AI on CRON-O-Meter with a very simple 570 calorie diet: 20 oz spinach, 10 oz white mushrooms, 6 oz tofu, 1.5 oz wheat germ. The difficult mineral to achieve was 4.7 g potassium - that's why there's so much spinach. Closer to my daily fare, is 12 oz each of potatoes (w/ skin) and black beans, 6 oz each of kale, broccoli, mushrooms, and strawberries, with 3 tbsp wheat germ, 3 tbsp flaxseed, 1 tsp wheat germ oil in the morning smoothie for a 1300 kcal caloric base that is deficient in calcium by the USDA standards, but not by mine. 

But a lot of starchy, grainy foods consist of empty calories. Why is that optimal? 

 

 

I think it is best to eat with as much variety as possible.

 

For the sake of argument, my key foods would be eggs, potatoes, fruit&veg, nuts, and dairy. Nuts are not extraneous for me.

 

According to Matt lalonde we should only eat "Meat, Tubers and Veggies". 

 

Why are nuts important to you? 

 

 

I have read a great deal about nuts, and they all have their own little specialisms, so I eat mixed raw nuts, hoping not to miss out. I usually mix in more walnuts and Brazils.

 

On paper, for me walnuts are the best. I have associated them with abolishing tooth pain, so I think the essential polyunsaturates in them are not to be sniffed at. My lunch is always nuts and fruit.

 

 

I prefer roasted nuts, especially cashews and Almonds. Walnuts are the only nuts I think that are decent raw. The rest of them are hard to chew and have some phytates in them. Roasted ones are healthier in my estimation. 

 

The paleo world seems very fussed about phytates; but I have read as many studies as I can on the subject and am reassured about them. Firstly, there is a school of thought that they are good for you. But even those studies that report phytates binding out nutrients such as minerals usually contain a note to say this is unlikely to be a problem for western people eating a balanced diet. I think the reason phytates are earnestly studied is that they can be a factor in problematic deficiency diets--for example in parts of the world where people are subsisting on an impoverished diet based on a staple such as rice.

 

So though it is true phytates might reduce absorption of a mineral such as calcium, the amount is probably not significant for most of us. (They do not bind out all of it.) In any case, one can negotiate around this by, for example, not eating nuts, beans, etc., at the same time as taking one's supplements or most mineral-containing foods. Fortunately, nuts work well as a snack food.

 

Edited by Gerrans, 03 June 2014 - 10:41 AM.

[Darryl]

TheFountain: But a lot of starchy, grainy foods consist of empty calories. Why is that optimal? 

 

There's a limit to how many high micronutrient/low-caloric density foods like vegetables or mushrooms I can enjoy, or afford. That 20 oz of spinach in my first example is 19 cups, and only 130 calories. I don't like chewing that much. As it's readily possible to satisfy nearly all the vitamin, mineral, essential amino acid and fatty acid requirements with an intake of only 6-700 calories, I see filling the remaining daily balance of 1000-1200 calories as less a problem of identifying the most nutrient dense foods, than of finding the least harmful ones. 

 

Look long enough, and negative effects can be found for most macronutrient classes. IMO certainly trans-fats, longer chain saturated fats, refined sugars and high glycemic index carbs. MUFAs and omega-6 PUFAs are perhaps better, but dietary MUFAs still cause atherosclerosis in animal models, and n-6 PUFAs are likely proinflammatory when exceeding n-3s. Experimental gerontology and human prospective studies suggest excess protein also bears dangers, at least before retirement age, via excess IGF-1/mTOR signalling and/or excess methionine's oxidative stress/inflammatory effects. What's left? I've yet to discover any negative effects from short chain fatty acids, most fermented from fiber and resistant starch in the colon. n-3 PUFAs, especially EPA/DHA, seem pretty blameless in supplement doses, but in  calorically significant amounts may make membranes prone to oxidation. And that leaves relatively lower glycemic index starches (beans up to my protein limit, whole-grains and whole-grain pasta). Are they micronutrient dense? No. Their virtue is that they're low in food components I'm moderating. Beans, tubers, and grains are traditional mainstays in most of the world, so there's no shortage of recipes out there. I tweak the recipes (eg substituting black or wild rice for white) to increase phytochemical content, but I've already got the generally recognized micronutrients well covered.

 

Potatoes (in my last post) are admittedly not the best exemplar. While they excel in potassium and are surprisingly complete (just short on B12, A, and E), they also have among the highest glycemic indices, and I'm trying to moderated insulin releases in the context of a low-fat/low-protein diet. I'm not pre-diabetic, its just that insulin and IGF-1 signalling are closely intermingled. I'm presently fascinated with the resistant starch story, and it appears that after roasting (but not boiling) and cooling, about half of the starch in a potato undergoes retrogradation to resistant starch, the highest fraction among cooked foods. Another consideration is that if one is restricting/moderating protein as a longevity experiment, satiety becomes more difficult. Hypothalamic mTOR activation, especially by leucine, appears to mediate the increased satiety and weight-loss advantages of high-protein diets. Those attempting some degree of CR and protein moderation must find alternate means of filling full, and I think enlisting the gastric stretch sensors is useful here. Tubers and whole grains have the virtue of relatively low caloric density (300-500 kcal/lb), nowhere as low as vegetables and fruit (100-250 kcal), but well below something like baked goods (1100-1700), and that helps, as does focusing on stew-like dishes (when my meal isn't a salad bowl sized salad).

Edited by Darryl, 03 June 2014 - 10:50 AM.

[Gerrans]

Good post, Darryl. Nutrient density is important, but one does not want everything one eats to be nutrient dense. Nutrients require dilutants.

 

*

 

Incidentally, even short-chain fatty acids do not get off scot free:

 

 

 

J Nutr. 2013 Jun;143(6):907-14. doi: 10.3945/jn.113.175422. Epub 2013 Apr 24.

Intake of small-to-medium-chain saturated fatty acids is associated with peripheral leukocyte telomere length in postmenopausal women.

Song Y¹, You NC, Song Y, Kang MK, Hou L, Wallace R, Eaton CB, Tinker LF, Liu S.

Author information

 

(from) Abstract

 

Dietary factors, including dietary fat, may affect the biological aging process, as reflected by the shortening of telomere length (TL), by affecting levels of oxidative stress and inflammatory responses. We examined the direct relations of total and types of dietary fats and fat-rich foods to peripheral leukocyte TL. In 4029 apparently healthy postmenopausal women who participated in the Women's Health Initiative, intakes of total fat, individual fatty acids, and fat-rich foods were assessed by a questionnaire. TL was measured by quantitative polymerase chain reaction. Intake of short-to-medium-chain saturated fatty acids (SMSFAs; aliphatic tails of ≤ 12 carbons) was inversely associated with TL. [...]

 

In conclusion, we found that higher intakes of SMSFAs and SMSFA-rich foods were associated with shorter peripheral leukocyte TL among postmenopausal women. These findings suggest the potential roles of SMSFAs in the rate of biological aging.

 

*

 

One for your collection?

 

Edited by Gerrans, 03 June 2014 - 11:31 AM.

[Darryl]

That paper is definitely added to the queue.

 

Was hoping that that might be mediated by caproic (6:0), capryllic (8:0),and capric (10:0) acids, but no, good ole butyrate (4:0) one of the major products from the microbiota, downregulates TERT (the rate limiting part of telomerase) by over two fold. Its one of the ways it butyrate appears to prevent colon cancer.

Edited by Darryl, 03 June 2014 - 12:18 PM.

[TheFountain]

 

 

Mono food diets kill people like Steve Jobs.  

Where did you connect these dots? Where is it said that he was on a mono diet? 

 

I think it was this lecture.

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=81xnvgOlHaY

 

Plus in his biography by Walter Isaacson it talks about how he ate only oranges for about 2 years at about the time his cancer should have been forming in the mid 1970's.  He tried to be a fruitarian.  Dr Mcdougall traces the growth rate by applying estimates of growth rates of his cancer from various reports.   Eg.  First discovered in 1981 at 2 cm in size.  3 years later at surgery it was 8 cm etc...  Those aren't real numbers, but his biography had some if I recall correctly.  To my mind, it's the best explanation that I've heard of.

 

What are you talking about? 1981? Where are you getting this shit? I am totally flustered by this. Reports? 1981? huh? He first got diagnosed in 2003! Not 1981. 

[scottknl]

 

 

 

Mono food diets kill people like Steve Jobs.  

Where did you connect these dots? Where is it said that he was on a mono diet? 

 

I think it was this lecture.

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=81xnvgOlHaY

 

Plus in his biography by Walter Isaacson it talks about how he ate only oranges for about 2 years at about the time his cancer should have been forming in the mid 1970's.  He tried to be a fruitarian.  Dr Mcdougall traces the growth rate by applying estimates of growth rates of his cancer from various reports.   Eg.  First discovered in 1981 at 2 cm in size.  3 years later at surgery it was 8 cm etc...  Those aren't real numbers, but his biography had some if I recall correctly.  To my mind, it's the best explanation that I've heard of.

 

What are you talking about? 1981? Where are you getting this shit? I am totally flustered by this. Reports? 1981? huh? He first got diagnosed in 2003! Not 1981. 

 

Fine, I got the date wrong, but the gist of it was correct.  The video (starting at around 13:00) I linked to suggests a 10 cm cancer will kill you and he died at age 56.  When it was detected it was about 1 cm in diameter at age 48.  The cancer was doubling every 10 months, so you can work out when it was started.  It was suggested that it must have started as a single cell around the time Jobs was age 24.  Or in other words his surgery delay of 9 months had little to do with his death.  Instead it was his dietary habits when he was age 24 that allowed the cancer to get established in the first place.  His biography notes that he was on an oranges only diet during this time frame.  Once the cancer was started and Job's dietary habits of not eating a balanced diet set the stage for his final demise.

 

 

 

If you've ever wondered about the eating habits of a guy who names his computer company Apple, Walter Isaacson's spanking-new Steve Jobs bioprovides fascinating details into the man's monkish diet. For starters, Jobs was a vegetarian (a lifestyle choice he shared, by the by, with fellow pioneers Sir Isaac Newton, Leonardo da Vinci, Nikola Tesla, Thomas Edison, and Albert Einstein). But it doesn't stop there. Jobs loved to fast, and would spend weeks at a time eating only one thing, like fruit smoothies or apples; at one point he was eating only carrots and was said to have taken on a "sunset-like orange hue." Jobs spent 1977 — the same year that Apple was incorporated — on an all-fruit diet. Apparently, what might sound like a raging, dangerous eating disorder was actually a philosophical quest to achieve enlightenment through asceticism, which at the very least isn't something you hear from your average, everyday anorexic.

[TheFountain]

 

 

 

 

Mono food diets kill people like Steve Jobs.  

Where did you connect these dots? Where is it said that he was on a mono diet? 

 

I think it was this lecture.

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=81xnvgOlHaY

 

Plus in his biography by Walter Isaacson it talks about how he ate only oranges for about 2 years at about the time his cancer should have been forming in the mid 1970's.  He tried to be a fruitarian.  Dr Mcdougall traces the growth rate by applying estimates of growth rates of his cancer from various reports.   Eg.  First discovered in 1981 at 2 cm in size.  3 years later at surgery it was 8 cm etc...  Those aren't real numbers, but his biography had some if I recall correctly.  To my mind, it's the best explanation that I've heard of.

 

What are you talking about? 1981? Where are you getting this shit? I am totally flustered by this. Reports? 1981? huh? He first got diagnosed in 2003! Not 1981. 

 

Fine, I got the date wrong, but the gist of it was correct.  The video (starting at around 13:00) I linked to suggests a 10 cm cancer will kill you and he died at age 56.  When it was detected it was about 1 cm in diameter at age 48.  The cancer was doubling every 10 months, so you can work out when it was started.  It was suggested that it must have started as a single cell around the time Jobs was age 24.  Or in other words his surgery delay of 9 months had little to do with his death.  Instead it was his dietary habits when he was age 24 that allowed the cancer to get established in the first place.  His biography notes that he was on an oranges only diet during this time frame.  Once the cancer was started and Job's dietary habits of not eating a balanced diet set the stage for his final demise.

 

 

 

If you've ever wondered about the eating habits of a guy who names his computer company Apple, Walter Isaacson's spanking-new Steve Jobs bioprovides fascinating details into the man's monkish diet. For starters, Jobs was a vegetarian (a lifestyle choice he shared, by the by, with fellow pioneers Sir Isaac Newton, Leonardo da Vinci, Nikola Tesla, Thomas Edison, and Albert Einstein). But it doesn't stop there. Jobs loved to fast, and would spend weeks at a time eating only one thing, like fruit smoothies or apples; at one point he was eating only carrots and was said to have taken on a "sunset-like orange hue." Jobs spent 1977 — the same year that Apple was incorporated — on an all-fruit diet. Apparently, what might sound like a raging, dangerous eating disorder was actually a philosophical quest to achieve enlightenment through asceticism, which at the very least isn't something you hear from your average, everyday anorexic.

 

He made an erroneous correlation between the fruitarian diet Jobs was on as a young man to his cancer diagnosis. That was my point. What diet was Jobs on when he was diagnosed?

[TheFountain]

Oh nevermind I see the correlation he made now. I watched the rest of the video. Interesting, but I am on the fence with his opinions. 

[Brett Black]

I'm presently fascinated with the resistant starch story, and it appears that after roasting (but not boiling) and cooling, about half of the starch in a potato undergoes retrogradation to resistant starch, the highest fraction among cooked foods. 

In relation to roasting potatoes, there is a potential risk associated with acrylamide formation:
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Acrylamide

...and for heating foods at high temperatures in general (e.g. above boiling), advanced glycation end-products could potentially be a problem:
http://en.wikipedia....ion_end-product

[TheFountain]

Oh nevermind I see the correlation he made now. I watched the rest of the video. Interesting, but I am on the fence with his opinions. 

I wanted to add that the main correlation he seems to make between Jobs disease development and his lifestyle was not through his "mono diet" but through his exposure to toxic chemicals at a plant he worked on as a young man, particularly he equated lead exposure to this. 

 

As a matter of fact he credits the mono diet with potentially prolonging Jobs life. 

Edited by TheFountain, 05 June 2014 - 09:43 PM.

[scottknl]

I think you mean he credits the fasting with potentially prolonging Jobs' life.  Eating only one or two food items is a nutritional disaster unless that food is soylent.

 

Yeah, the mono diet conclusion was added by me -- I had forgotten about the toxic chemicals in the electronics factory because I read the book more than a year ago.  My opinion on reading the biography was it's kind of a big stretch to suggest that the solvent exposure may have caused his cancer any more than any other exposure we all get in daily life.  I certainly hope that the human body can deal with such things since I was involved in repairing electronic equipment for more than a decade and was also exposed to similar solvents etc.  No cancer yet

 

I see it this way:

1) Malnutrition can cause lots of unintended consequences. 2) There are tons of anecdotal tales of people who are under periods of intense stress and who develop cancers soon after. 3) Some studies show that circulating antioxidants are diminished in people undergoing stress. 4) Other studies show that people who eat diets deficient in nutrients have low levels of antioxidants.  5) Studies like the "Seventh Day Adventists" show that lifestyle is biggest determinant of mortality.  6) Calorie restriction studies show that around 67% of cancers can be prevented with lifestyle changes.  As an anecdotal note I'd mention that cancer is quite rare on the CR Society list, but is much more prevalent in my coworkers a large university.  I think we can suggest that most CR diets are high in antioxidants.

 

I think the only piece I'd like to add to my reasoning is to find a study that shows that low antioxidant levels are associated with higher cancer incidence or mortality.  I haven't seen a really good one yet.  The CR monkey studies show that CR reduces cancer incidence in primates, but there were lots of other problems with those studies, so I don't consider them to be good evidence.

[Gerrans]

 

I'm presently fascinated with the resistant starch story, and it appears that after roasting (but not boiling) and cooling, about half of the starch in a potato undergoes retrogradation to resistant starch, the highest fraction among cooked foods. 

In relation to roasting potatoes, there is a potential risk associated with acrylamide formation:
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Acrylamide

 

 

If I had a choice between longevity and roast potatoes, I think I would go for the latter.

 

[TheFountain]

I think you mean he credits the fasting with potentially prolonging Jobs' life.  Eating only one or two food items is a nutritional disaster unless that food is soylent.

 

Yeah, the mono diet conclusion was added by me -- I had forgotten about the toxic chemicals in the electronics factory because I read the book more than a year ago.  My opinion on reading the biography was it's kind of a big stretch to suggest that the solvent exposure may have caused his cancer any more than any other exposure we all get in daily life.  I certainly hope that the human body can deal with such things since I was involved in repairing electronic equipment for more than a decade and was also exposed to similar solvents etc.  No cancer yet

 

I see it this way:

1) Malnutrition can cause lots of unintended consequences. 2) There are tons of anecdotal tales of people who are under periods of intense stress and who develop cancers soon after. 3) Some studies show that circulating antioxidants are diminished in people undergoing stress. 4) Other studies show that people who eat diets deficient in nutrients have low levels of antioxidants.  5) Studies like the "Seventh Day Adventists" show that lifestyle is biggest determinant of mortality.  6) Calorie restriction studies show that around 67% of cancers can be prevented with lifestyle changes.  As an anecdotal note I'd mention that cancer is quite rare on the CR Society list, but is much more prevalent in my coworkers a large university.  I think we can suggest that most CR diets are high in antioxidants.

 

I think the only piece I'd like to add to my reasoning is to find a study that shows that low antioxidant levels are associated with higher cancer incidence or mortality.  I haven't seen a really good one yet.  The CR monkey studies show that CR reduces cancer incidence in primates, but there were lots of other problems with those studies, so I don't consider them to be good evidence.

Watch the video! He very much credits the diet Jobs was on with prolonging his life. 

 

That is very much the implication there. 

 

I did not say I agree or disagree. I just think his primary correlation was exposure to chemicals on a computer assembly line early in his life. 

[sthira]

Meanwhile, I think the boring answer to which five great foods to eat is the answer you already know. Why limit to five, though?

Anyway here are my high five:

1) greens -- any species, I just don't fry them
2) beans -- any except refried
3) cruciferous vegetables -- I eat more than I think I should
4) berries -- all are delicious and beautiful
5) nuts -- just don't salt them and further ruin or contaminate them

I think all of those five genres I eat raw, organic, local, and with the seasons. I support hippie farmers. Then I relax, do some yoga, smoke a little purple bud. Imagine how healthy the world might be one day be if everyone calmed down a little, was respectful to each other and other animals, plants, fungi and everyone ate well and had just enough and not too much cheap and easy junk? But I'm not limiting myself to five types of healthy foods. Why should you?

[bracconiere]

Meanwhile, I think the boring answer to which five great foods to eat is the answer you already know. Why limit to five, though?

Anyway here are my high five:

1) greens -- any species, I just don't fry them
2) beans -- any except refried
3) cruciferous vegetables -- I eat more than I think I should
4) berries -- all are delicious and beautiful
5) nuts -- just don't salt them and further ruin or contaminate them

I think all of those five genres I eat raw, organic, local, and with the seasons. I support hippie farmers. Then I relax, do some yoga, smoke a little purple bud. Imagine how healthy the world might be one day be if everyone calmed down a little, was respectful to each other and other animals, plants, fungi and everyone ate well and had just enough and not too much cheap and easy junk? But I'm not limiting myself to five types of healthy foods. Why should you?

 

 

What! No refried beans? lol, I like California reds sautéed in a tbsp. of veg oil, with wheat germ chips rolled out with a pasta roller, 2oz of each.

 

And I think nuts are over rated, seeds are where the good fats are. 3's and 6's

[bracconiere]

 

 

If I want more B vitamins, I usually reach for the mushrooms.  For niacin I have some peanuts.  I only use starchy/grainy foods for empty calories when I've already met my RDA on most everything else, and even then, I'd be better off with sweet potatoes or something like that.  I like Darryl's version of diet, but to me this is only an academic exercise.  Mono food diets kill people like Steve Jobs.  It's better to eat lightly (Japanese style) from many different food groups, rather than rely on only a few staples.  That way you get the best cancer prevention.

 

 

Mushrooms? what kind? I grow them, but never thought of them as a good source of b vitamins. I know iron and if exposed to UV-B light during harvest vitamin D....Peanuts are good, but I like rice bran for niacin, despite the phytic acid concerns which although I tried fermenting it first, actually lowers my blood sugar. And I don't supplement niacin and haven't come down with pelegra in the 5 years I've been eating it for niacin. And I believe they started promoting the variety thing when people were first introduced to corn, and didn't mixtamal it to release the niacin. Resulting in a epidemic of pellagra.

 

According to the USDA....you just need 56g of sweet potato to get your vitamin A, turn yellow if you eat too much of them...lol

 

 

And, excuse my ignorance but, what is a mono food diet?

 

I just use plain old white button mushrooms.  I find that they have the spectrum of B vitamins that are quite helpful in balancing my diet out. 50 grams of mushrooms does wonders for my B vitamins and is reasonable in cost and tasty too.  Unfortunately it doesn't help with the niacin, but just a few grams of peanuts provides enough to balance out the diet without adding too much saturated fats.

 

Hopefully that rice bran is organic since that's where the arsenic hides in conventional crops.  www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iKgyexuo4U

 I don't take it too seriously though, since I only have 40g of cooked rice per day anyway.

 

A mono food diet is one in which people rely on one or only a few foods to supply all of their calories.  Often corn or corn products can supply a surprisingly high number of calories in the standard american diet.  Such diets often lack trace minerals, phytonutrients etc. and rarely are balanced wrt fatty acids.

 

 

 

You know I had a realization...Most everyone is on a mono diet, taco's one night, maybe a hamburger the next, sandwich another, then pizza on the weekend....All the same ingredients, fixed differently