34 replies to this topic

[Robert Ramirez]

What would be the best diet to prevent superficial aging? Or is diet a non-factor?

Would avoiding glycation prevent aging? That would possibly mean a diet low in carbs, especially fructose, and low in PUFA.

Or would avoiding a high intake of inflammatory proteins be the solution? I do notice a lot of bodybuilders, despite youthful bodies, have very aged faces?

What do you think? Is a high carb or a high fat diet the most optimal for ageless looks?

[Synchro]

I can give you one quick tip. It's a bit offtopic, but for a male it's very useful.

 

If you do bio-identical testosterone creme - highly recommend it, but you gotta do antiinflammation seriously to avoid elevating your risk of heart attack - put the testosterone creme on your neck and face. It will cause growth of more collagen under the skin and make your face and neck look a lot younger, eliminating a lot of wrinkles and sags....especially helpful with the Turkey Neck men get.

 

I do 200 mg a day; 50 mg neck, 50 both halves of face, 50 across the forehead. It works quite remarkably, actually.

 

And, yes, I have to do DIM and I3C to cut down the excess estrogens.

 

As far as lifestyle/nutrition, not smoking is by far number one. Everything else is a distant fifth. I would also suspect that a diet high in beneficial fats would help a lot: coconut oil, ghee/clarified butter....and that's about it lol.

 

Very Best, Synchro

[Darryl]

• Avoid exogenous radical generation from midday sunlight and smoking.
• Scavenge the radicals that get through with carotenoids and vitamin E. I aim for about a 6oz can of tomato paste (or sauce equivalents) and tsp of wheat germ oil daily.
• Suppress the inflammatory response to UVA & B, and subsequent superoxide generation and matrix metalloproteinase expression, with fish oil/EPA and high polyphenols (vegetables, fruit esp berries, tea, coffee cocoa, wine, curcumin etc).
• Avoid tissue glycation, from very high dietary fructose and uncontrolled blood sugar. The same diets that prevent diabetes (low in saturated fat and added sugars) or aid glycemic control for diabetics (high-fiber/lower glycemic index starches) should help lower average blood glucose in non-diabetics.
• Monounsaturated fats from plant sources like olive oil, but not animal sources, should be the predominant fat, as its neither inflammatory (as saturated fats are) and is less prone to UV-generated singlet oxygen damage than polyunsaturated fats.
• Supplemental oral retinoids, NSAIDs, fish oil/EPA, and B3 (niacin/nicotinamide) may help.

Collagen turns over, but elastin has to last a lifetime, so MMP overxpression appears to be the crucial event in skin aging. There's a lot of material on MMP expression response to interventions in oncology, its daunting but I plan on getting to it.

 

 

Some sources:

 

High carotenoids, especially beta-carotene. EPA supplementation.

Boelsma, E., Hendriks, H. F., & Roza, L. (2001). Nutritional skin care: health effects of micronutrients and fatty acids. The American journal of clinical nutrition, 73(5), 853-864.

 

High vegetables, legumes and olive oil. Low in meat, dairy, and butter.

Purba, M. B., Kouris-Blazos, A., Wattanapenpaiboon, N., Lukito, W., Rothenberg, E. M., Steen, B. C., & Wahlqvist, M. L. (2001). Skin wrinkling: can food make a difference?. Journal of the American College of Nutrition, 20(1), 71-80.

 

Carotenoids, especially lycopene (tomatoes), vitamin E, selenium, polyphenols (cocoa, tea, berries, wine, vegetables), EPA

Sies, H., & Stahl, W. (2004). Nutritional protection against skin damage from sunlight. Annu. Rev. Nutr., 24, 173-200.

 

Carotenoids, vitamin E, selenium

Heinrich, U., Tronnier, H., Stahl, W., Bejot, M., & Maurette, J. M. (2006). Antioxidant supplements improve parameters related to skin structure in humans. Skin pharmacology and physiology, 19(4), 224-231.

 

High dietary vitamin C, low fat and carbohydrate.

Cosgrove, M. C., Franco, O. H., Granger, S. P., Murray, P. G., & Mayes, A. E. (2007). Dietary nutrient intakes and skin-aging appearance among middle-aged American women. The American journal of clinical nutrition, 86(4), 1225-1231.

 

Benefits from beta-carotene, lycopene, vitamin C, vitamin E, fish oil, cocoa. Harms from high meat and fat intake.

Piccardi, N., & Manissier, P. (2009). Nutrition and nutritional supplementation: Impact on skin health and beauty. Dermato-endocrinology, 1(5), 271.

 

Green and yellow vegetables

Nagata, C., Nakamura, K., Wada, K., Oba, S., Hayashi, M., Takeda, N., & Yasuda, K. (2010). Association of dietary fat, vegetables and antioxidant micronutrients with skin ageing in Japanese women. British Journal of Nutrition,103(10), 1493-1498.

 

High in carotenoids, polyphenols, vitamin E, selenium. Low in omega-6 fatty acids and riboflavin.

Shapira, N. (2010). Nutritional approach to sun protection: a suggested complement to external strategies. Nutrition reviews, 68(2), 75-86.

 

Polyphenols.

Nichols, J. A., & Katiyar, S. K. (2010). Skin photoprotection by natural polyphenols: anti-inflammatory, antioxidant and DNA repair mechanisms.Archives of dermatological research, 302(2), 71-83.

 

Carotenoids, vitamin E, polyphenols: 

Evans, J. A., & Johnson, E. J. (2010). The role of phytonutrients in skin health.Nutrients, 2(8), 903-928.

 

Monounsaturated fats from olive oil, but not from animal sources.

Latreille, J., Kesse-Guyot, E., Malvy, D., Andreeva, V., Galan, P., Tschachler, E., ... & Ezzedine, K. (2012). Dietary monounsaturated fatty acids intake and risk of skin photoaging. PloS one, 7(9), e44490.

 

Vitamin C, vitamin E, carotenoids (esp lycopene/tomatos & beta-carotene/carrots, pumpkin, sweet potatoes, mangos and papaya), vitamin D, polyphenols (fruits, tea, coffee, red wine, cocoa, vegetables, legumes, spices), fish oil / EPA, caloric restriction 

Schagen, S. K., Zampeli, V. A., Makrantonaki, E., & Zouboulis, C. C. (2012). Discovering the link between nutrition and skin aging. Dermato-endocrinology,4(3), 298.

 

Vitamin E and C-rich fruits and tea

Husein‐ElAhmed, H., Aneiros‐Fernandez, J., Gutierrez‐Salmeron, M. T., Aneiros‐Cachaza, J., & Naranjo‐Sintes, R. (2013). Relationship between food intake and cutaneous solar elastosis adjacent to basal cell carcinoma. Journal of the European Academy of Dermatology and Venereology, 27(1), 25-30.

 

Polyphenols (goji, pomegranite, green tea, curcumin, leafy vegetables, wine), lycopene (tomatoes), limonene (citrus peels), garlic, fish oil / EPA, caffeine, B3/niacin/nicotinamide, oral retinoids. NSAIDs. 

Chen, A. C., Damian, D. L., & Halliday, G. M. (2014). Oral and systemic photoprotection. Photodermatology, photoimmunology & photomedicine, 30(2-3), 102-111.

 

 

Dermatology text with chapters on carotenoids, flavonoids, omega-3 fatty acids, green tea, soy, nicotinamide, and prebiotics.

Humbert, P., Binda, D., Robin, S., & Krutmann, J. (2011). Beauty from Inside: Nutrition-Based Strategies in Cosmetic Dermatology. In Nutrition for Healthy Skin (pp. 189-196). Springer Berlin Heidelberg.

 

Dermatology text:

Watson, R. R., & Zibadi, S. (2013). Bioactive Dietary Factors and Plant Extracts in Dermatology. Humana Press.

Edited by Darryl, 26 June 2014 - 11:16 PM.

[sthira]

Great post, Darryl. Thank you.

[Robert Ramirez]

Amazing post Darryl. Your recommendations fall in line with what I thought to be the best anti-aging diet. My high meat paleo plus potatoes and unlimited fruits seems to have prematurely aged me the last couple years and I am hoping to fix it over the coming months. Thanks a lot.

[twinkly]

Darryl,

 

Thank you for your comprehensive post. Would you know if Wheat germ oil contains gluten? Having looked into this, the response is mixed, from yes, no (based on intolerance level) to trace amounts. If indeed it isn't gluten-free, what other oil is comparable? 

[Synchro]

There is an important strategy for preventing AGE's in the skin that is underlooked, because it seems so common.

 

Whether a person is diabetic or not, excess glucose gets converted into sorbitol. The functional difference is the glucose is not adequately controlled by this conversion to "waste" in the diabetic; in the normal person this conversion goes unnoticed - but it's there anyway. You can get a sense of it by measuring your glycated hemoglobin, the A1c, but there is the danger of thinking that because your A1c is normal, you're OK. You're not - you're still making sorbitol and you're still making AGE's in your skin. Really healthy people with fabulous nutrition don't make much sorbitol, because the conversion is not favored until there's an excess load of glucose trying to raise blood sugar levels, but it happens at a lower level in normally healthy people all the time. There is a post-prandial normal rise in glucose that is not considered diabetic, so long as the glucose level "falls back" quickly enough. Normally, most of the excess load is used up under the influence of insulin, but nonetheless part of it does go to sorbitol.

 

Can you prevent sorbitol with fabulous nutrition? Yes, but good luck with that, you'd have to be a food saint. And, if you have any health issues or any bad eating habits at all, you're going to make sorbitol.

 

Is there a way to safely and easily block the conversion of glucose to sorbitol? Yes, the converting enzyme is aldose reductase, which does not have much affinity for glucose until there's excess. Nature's buffer here is plain old vitamin C. Vitamin C is an effective aldose reductase inhibitor, and vitamin C enters all body compartments. 

 

It's as simple as taking your vitamin C. Humans don't make it, although we could - it's just one mutated gene in humans that prevent us from making our own vitamin C, and way back when I worked out a genetic therapy for restoring the vitamin C gene to humans, and had it approved for a PhD project in molecular biology, but life intervened and I did other things instead. Anyway, to complete this short story virtually all animals on earth make their own vitamin C, ascorbic acid, at about the daily human equivalency rate of 15 to 25 grams per day. That's a lot. For nature to conserve THAT across all animal species is remarkable. The only animals on earth that don't make their own C are those where the diet supplied it in sufficient quantity to prevent extinction, but that's not enough for optimal health. Humans, chimpanzee's, the main primates, some bats, guinea pigs - there are more, but still, it's a short list.

 

The minimum effective dose appears to be 500 mg twice a day. However, I think that's far too low; that's just the dose that gives some protection. I take 2 or 3 grams four times a day, which is probably too much for most people; I think a decent compromise for most people is 500 mg or 1 gram three to four times a day - upon awakening, morning, afternoon, evening/bedtime.

 

Fancy C is not required. I personally like Solaray, and take both their forms - the 1,000 mg one that is a mix of fast release and timed release, and the 1,000 mg one that is C plus bioflavenoids.

 

Because I personally am battling diabetes big time, and losing, I have decided to have a port put in, and I'm going to be giving myself up to 25 grams of intravenous vitamin C per 24 hours. I am very hopeful to see my A1c nose-dive.

 

Very Best, Synchro

 

PS: it is also worth noting that when aldose reductase is busy converting glucose to sorbitol, NAPDH is being used up - this has negative ramifications for other body systems, because without adequate reserves of NAPDH, beneficial agents like glutathione and nitric oxide do not get made sufficiently for optimal health.

[Darryl]

Twinkly:

 

It shouldn't contain much gluten, which like most non-membrane associated proteins would segregate to the aqueous phase of the pressing. This would be particularly true of refined wheat germ oil. However if someone has severe responses to gluten (as in Celiac disease) any trace amounts may cause problems.

 

The photoaging literature on vitamin E is wholly with alpha-tocopherol supplements, so any vitamin E supplement could replicate the intakes.

 

A tsp of wheat germ oil (high in alpha-tocopherol) happened to balance out my alpha- and gamma- intakes in CRON-o-meter, and I try to get all the known essential nutrients (though not all at the US AIs) from food sources, and not supplements or fortified foods.

Edited by Darryl, 27 June 2014 - 06:50 PM.

[JohnD60]

What would be the best diet to prevent superficial aging? Or is diet a non-factor?

Would avoiding glycation prevent aging? That would possibly mean a diet low in carbs, especially fructose, and low in PUFA.

 

The best diet is currently just a matter of opinion. My opinion is that a high fact low carb diet is the best to prevent aging. I think you are drawing a connection between glycation and PUFAs that does not exist. Glycation happens with amino acids and sugars, not PUFAs

[aribadabar]

Thank you Darryl and Synchro for the excellent contributions!

 

If I can ask 2 follow-up questions:

 

Synchro: Isn't liposomal vit C an efficient way in delivery of lower nominal dose? I read that it has 80% absorption rate vs only 20% for the regular tablet formulation for oral administration.

 

Darryl: You mentioned that saturated fats are inflammatory. Does this apply to extra virgin coconut oil as well? I thought it possesses significant anti-inflammatory properties.

 

 

Thanks again!

[Darryl]

aribadabar, my comment on saturated fats here was mostly motivated by the Purba et al study, in which the foods with pro-wrinkling associations (meat, milk, butter) happen to be high in saturated fats among many other things. One of the studies above also found high saturated fat diets increase skin hydration, but I'm not so sure that's a good marker for underlying aging.

 

Rather little is known about the  effects of orally ingested virgin coconut oil on inflammation. There's a study where rats given 80 mg/kg of the polyphenolic fraction had reduced edema from induced arthritis, but VCO only has a miserable 25 mg polyphenols / kg, so its as if the rats were ingesting 3 times their weight in VCO. You'd do much, much better seeking polyphenols from more concentrated sources, like berries, red wine, tea or even virgin olive oil. Another animal study found lesser paw swelling after acute carageenan injection with VCO, but no benefits for chronic implanted cotton. Given how postprandial blood fat reduces circulation, I'm not sure the first test really measured inflammation. However, for topical application VCO seems useful, being somewhat better than mineral oil, and there's an animal study where topically applied VCO reduced visible inflammation from irritants.

 

As for refined coconut oil, its mostly been studied for its vascular effects, where its proatherogenic in animal studies, and impairs endothelial function and the anti-inflammatory properties of HDL in humans. The lipidologists might point to the LDL-increasing C12-16 fats, direct TLR-4 NF-kB signalling, or higher intestinal permeability to endotoxins for these effects. The toll like receptors (including TLR-4) seem to be active in skin's inflammatory response to UV, too but there's no study directly linking dietary fats to potentiating this.

 

...

 

One thing from Shapira's paper that seems of particular relevance to this forum is that vitamin B2 (riboflavin) is a fairly potent photosensitizer. For skin photoprotection, it may be wise to avoid the high doses of B2 found in high potency B-complex supplements.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Darryl, 04 July 2014 - 09:15 AM.

[goodman]

I can give you one quick tip. It's a bit offtopic, but for a male it's very useful.
 
If you do bio-identical testosterone creme - highly recommend it, but you gotta do antiinflammation seriously to avoid elevating your risk of heart attack - put the testosterone creme on your neck and face. It will cause growth of more collagen under the skin and make your face and neck look a lot younger, eliminating a lot of wrinkles and sags....especially helpful with the Turkey Neck men get.
 
I do 200 mg a day; 50 mg neck, 50 both halves of face, 50 across the forehead. It works quite remarkably, actually.
 
And, yes, I have to do DIM and I3C to cut down the excess estrogens.
 
As far as lifestyle/nutrition, not smoking is by far number one. Everything else is a distant fifth. I would also suspect that a diet high in beneficial fats would help a lot: coconut oil, ghee/clarified butter....and that's about it lol.
 
Very Best, Synchro

can the same effect be obtained using dht cream?

[oneshot2shots]

You can buy upgraded collagen and there are anecdotal reports that skin noticably improves. Gluthiaone is another. There is nothing I hate more than turkey neck:)

 

I am primarily paleo, could you elaborate on why you believe paleo is the source of your aging?? I never feel better after eating lightly cooked grass fed steak with a bowl of brocolli saturated in butter.  (I'm firmly on the saturated fat is not inflammatory side)

[Synchro]

 

I can give you one quick tip. It's a bit offtopic, but for a male it's very useful.
 
If you do bio-identical testosterone creme - highly recommend it, but you gotta do antiinflammation seriously to avoid elevating your risk of heart attack - put the testosterone creme on your neck and face. It will cause growth of more collagen under the skin and make your face and neck look a lot younger, eliminating a lot of wrinkles and sags....especially helpful with the Turkey Neck men get.
 
I do 200 mg a day; 50 mg neck, 50 both halves of face, 50 across the forehead. It works quite remarkably, actually.
 
And, yes, I have to do DIM and I3C to cut down the excess estrogens.
 
As far as lifestyle/nutrition, not smoking is by far number one. Everything else is a distant fifth. I would also suspect that a diet high in beneficial fats would help a lot: coconut oil, ghee/clarified butter....and that's about it lol.
 
Very Best, Synchro

can the same effect be obtained using dht cream?

 

 

Great question. Intuitively, I would say yes, but I looked for references. Hard to find, really hard to find, I was amazed.

 

I did find this kinda oblique one that suggests that DHT would, indeed, increase collagen in the skin:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10617154

 

This article from Nature referenced the above paper, and added some hints that would support the use of DHT to increase collagen in the underlying skin in males, and to some extent, females. Just search DHT in the article and you'll find three or four mentions.

 

http://www.nature.co...l/5602593a.html

 

Man, I couldn't find much more. All in all, though, DHT, to my understanding back from histology when I did a great deal of various literature searches regarding the role of testosterone and DHT on prostate cells, pretty much has the same effect, just heightened, on androgen receptors. My best guess is it work just fine.

 

I was amazed at how quickly my face de-aged and my turkey neck was greatly diminished as soon as I switched to putting the testosterone transdermal onto my neck and face instead of everywhere else I was putting it.

 

Very Best, Synchro

 

[Matt]

Hi Robert.  

 

I think that the increase in hormones, including androgens in these bodybuilders does make them appear older and more mature. So if anyone wants to keep their 'boyish' looks for longer, then this is not necessarily the way to go. Superficially, altering the skins' properties using T/DHT is likely to make one appear older. Personally, I do calorie restriction and use a couple things to try and purposefully lower my testosterone levels.

I think a vegan or vegetarian diet is best diet to look young. Most of the good examples you'll see are non-white people in the raw food community. Raw foodists tend to love the sun and many are afraid of using things on their skin like sun protection. 

[twinkly]

Hi Robert.  

 

I think that the increase in hormones, including androgens in these bodybuilders does make them appear older and more mature. So if anyone wants to keep their 'boyish' looks for longer, then this is not necessarily the way to go. Superficially, altering the skins' properties using T/DHT is likely to make one appear older. Personally, I do calorie restriction and use a couple things to try and purposefully lower my testosterone levels.

I think a vegan or vegetarian diet is best diet to look young. Most of the good examples you'll see are non-white people in the raw food community. Raw foodists tend to love the sun and many are afraid of using things on their skin like sun protection. 

 

What's, to you, the best way of lowering testosterone levels, sparingly rather than a lot at once, through diet? I, myself, am a vegan. I do occasionally have a cup or two of tea made out of spearmint, but I'm afraid of overdoing it because I'm not entirely sure of the exact cut-off limit. 

Edited by twinkly, 08 July 2014 - 06:18 PM.

[Matt]

I have about 6 spearmint teas a day and some licorice. I know licorice can really have a dramatic effect on T levels in men. Spearmint has only been tested in mice and women (works in both to lower free Testosterone). Licorice can cause a spike in blood pressure if one has too much, so you need to be careful and monitor blood pressure.  Prior to using these two, I was just using soy isoflavones + green tea to lower DHT.  My T levels were about 516 ng/dl prior to implementing all of these. I don't yet know if they've had any effect. I'll find out around October when I go for my blood tests.

Medications are far more effective, and thus more likely to have side effects, which most guys won't really appreciate. Some early signs of low T might be tiredness, fatigue or weakness.

There's some evidence in humans that testosterone does shorten lifespan, although I think that the reduction in testosterone only plays a relatively small role in CR life extension.  Right now I'm trying to experiment and find the right balance. 

There's studies on my other computer which I had saved on this topic but I don't have access to it right now.

Here's an old paper I found
 

The effects of sex steroid hormones upon longevity in rats  (testosterone seems to be pro-ageing; estrogen anti-ageing)

http://www.reproduct...t/14/1/113.long

 

Reduction of Serum Testosterone in Men by Licorice

http://www.nejm.org/...199910073411515

Edited by Matt, 10 July 2014 - 12:28 AM.

[twinkly]

Thank you Matt -- much appreciated,.

 

So, thinking about including some of these in my routine, should I just start with the spearmint/licorice combo or just start taking soy isoflavone? If the former, how much licorice a day/times a week is advisable? I was thinking 2g a day, or a few times a week. Regarding soy, not being too familiar with this, is this soy isoflavone in supplement form, and is it necessary when taking spearmint/licorice? In which case, may I ask if there are any brands that you recommend?  

[Synchro]

Twinkly:

 

It shouldn't contain much gluten, which like most non-membrane associated proteins would segregate to the aqueous phase of the pressing. This would be particularly true of refined wheat germ oil. However if someone has severe responses to gluten (as in Celiac disease) any trace amounts may cause problems.

 

The photoaging literature on vitamin E is wholly with alpha-tocopherol supplements, so any vitamin E supplement could replicate the intakes.

 

A tsp of wheat germ oil (high in alpha-tocopherol) happened to balance out my alpha- and gamma- intakes in CRON-o-meter, and I try to get all the known essential nutrients (though not all at the US AIs) from food sources, and not supplements or fortified foods.

 

Darryl, I would really question the efficacy - even safety - of alpha-tocopherol. I have followed the vitamin E debate for many decades now, and the main theme, to me, has been controlled by the manufacturers' commitment to the cheapest form of E. I don't see the sense of using alpha-tocopherol at all, except it's cheap and available - pretty dumb reasons.

As a physician, it also distresses me to see how once again mainstream medicine is so bloody clueless - study after study about vitamin E without the slightest notion or acknowledgment that there's more than one type of E, or that the study is using the wrong form of E, or that it matters, that there are zillions of associated tocopherols and tocotrienols, and that alpha is hardly the star of the show - as a matter of fact, very likely the killer lurking in the wings, murdering the rest of the cast as the show goes on. 

Sorry, I don't possibly have time right now to do a collation of citations to back up my point, so you're free to throw away my opinion, but I do have a lot of depth and decades of following this subject, and over and over again I see alpha-tocopherol not only failing to deliver, I see it screwing things up in doses that overwhelm any sort of rational balance with other forms of E and other antioxidants.

However, I would direct you and others to gamma E from www.lef.org. There, you will find the survey of the literature and the informed opinion I don't have time to replicate, and a product that I think has been overlooked but is to my perspective the single most important E supplement available.

 

Very Best, Synchro

[Synchro]

Thank you Darryl and Synchro for the excellent contributions!

 

If I can ask 2 follow-up questions:

 

Synchro: Isn't liposomal vit C an efficient way in delivery of lower nominal dose? I read that it has 80% absorption rate vs only 20% for the regular tablet formulation for oral administration.

 

Darryl: You mentioned that saturated fats are inflammatory. Does this apply to extra virgin coconut oil as well? I thought it possesses significant anti-inflammatory properties.

 

 

Thanks again!

 

aribadabar, would you please point me to the liposomal vitamin C you'd like me to consider?

I admit to a resistance to fancy C's that may just be a prejudice, and perhaps I've been missing something. I always cast a jaundiced eye when supplement manufacturers attempt to get more money out of me by unnecessarily fancying something up that doesn't need it, but on the other hand if I really can get better blood levels taking less, that could be great.

 

Very Best, Synchro

[aribadabar]

 

Thank you Darryl and Synchro for the excellent contributions!

 

If I can ask 2 follow-up questions:

 

Synchro: Isn't liposomal vit C an efficient way in delivery of lower nominal dose? I read that it has 80% absorption rate vs only 20% for the regular tablet formulation for oral administration.

 

Darryl: You mentioned that saturated fats are inflammatory. Does this apply to extra virgin coconut oil as well? I thought it possesses significant anti-inflammatory properties.

 

 

Thanks again!

 

aribadabar, would you please point me to the liposomal vitamin C you'd like me to consider?

I admit to a resistance to fancy C's that may just be a prejudice, and perhaps I've been missing something. I always cast a jaundiced eye when supplement manufacturers attempt to get more money out of me by unnecessarily fancying something up that doesn't need it, but on the other hand if I really can get better blood levels taking less, that could be great.

 

Very Best, Synchro

 

 

Synchro, I am, not very well versed in the detailed PK data of liposomal vitamin C but anecdotal evidence posted here on Longecity and other websites suggest (to my understanding) that the liposomal structure allows the vitamin C to reach much higher biovavailability than plain vitamin C supplements.

 

Here are some of the topics I read on the subject:

http://www.longecity...l-and-curcumin/

http://www.longecity...n-c-saturation/

http://www.michaelmo...eLiposomalC.pdf

http://www.michaelmo...CureCancer.html

 

As to the cost - it is a very cheap DIY project - all you need is a ultrasonic jewelry cleaner, some (soy or sunflower) lecithin granules and ascorbic acid (or better yet, sodium ascorbate):

https://www.youtube....h?v=F2eqfiTxDwg

 

You seem much more knowledgeable on the subject so I look forward to hearing your opinion on it.

[Synchro]

 

 

Thank you Darryl and Synchro for the excellent contributions!

 

If I can ask 2 follow-up questions:

 

Synchro: Isn't liposomal vit C an efficient way in delivery of lower nominal dose? I read that it has 80% absorption rate vs only 20% for the regular tablet formulation for oral administration.

 

Darryl: You mentioned that saturated fats are inflammatory. Does this apply to extra virgin coconut oil as well? I thought it possesses significant anti-inflammatory properties.

 

 

Thanks again!

 

aribadabar, would you please point me to the liposomal vitamin C you'd like me to consider?

I admit to a resistance to fancy C's that may just be a prejudice, and perhaps I've been missing something. I always cast a jaundiced eye when supplement manufacturers attempt to get more money out of me by unnecessarily fancying something up that doesn't need it, but on the other hand if I really can get better blood levels taking less, that could be great.

 

Very Best, Synchro

 

 

Synchro, I am, not very well versed in the detailed PK data of liposomal vitamin C but anecdotal evidence posted here on Longecity and other websites suggest (to my understanding) that the liposomal structure allows the vitamin C to reach much higher biovavailability than plain vitamin C supplements.

 

Here are some of the topics I read on the subject:

http://www.longecity...l-and-curcumin/

http://www.longecity...n-c-saturation/

http://www.michaelmo...eLiposomalC.pdf

http://www.michaelmo...CureCancer.html

 

As to the cost - it is a very cheap DIY project - all you need is a ultrasonic jewelry cleaner, some (soy or sunflower) lecithin granules and ascorbic acid (or better yet, sodium ascorbate):

https://www.youtube....h?v=F2eqfiTxDwg

 

You seem much more knowledgeable on the subject so I look forward to hearing your opinion on it.

 

 

Hi aribadabar, just letting you know I'm working on an answer, it's gonna be a long, complicated one LOL, just so you know.

 

Very Best, Synchro

[Maecenas]

Hi Robert.  

 

I think that the increase in hormones, including androgens in these bodybuilders does make them appear older and more mature. So if anyone wants to keep their 'boyish' looks for longer, then this is not necessarily the way to go. Superficially, altering the skins' properties using T/DHT is likely to make one appear older. Personally, I do calorie restriction and use a couple things to try and purposefully lower my testosterone levels.

I think a vegan or vegetarian diet is best diet to look young. Most of the good examples you'll see are non-white people in the raw food community. Raw foodists tend to love the sun and many are afraid of using things on their skin like sun protection. 

Matt, I know many bodybuilders who look very young, some of them like 10-15 years younger than their age. Here are some famous bodybuilders who look quite young for their age:

 

Mario Lopez

https://www.google.c...6&bih=643&dpr=1

Jimm Morris

https://www.google.c...ris bodybuilder

Robbie Robinson

https://www.google.c...obbie robinson

Rob Riches

https://www.google.c...6&bih=643&dpr=1

I also know some people who look 40 in their 20's just because of their facial features and they don't do any sports.

Bodybuilders often look older because they have frequent weight fluctuations and tan a lot.

[Maecenas]

I wanted to ask about your opinion on fruitarianism. It's considered to be a suicidal diet by many. I've been subscribed to a channel of one of the principal propagandists of this diet - Frelee. She's been on that diet for almost 7 years. She is 34 - looks 24 and seems to be thriving on that diet, sometimes eating up to 30 bananas a day. She claimed to have a medical check with normal results.  Here's a link to her youtube channel: https://www.youtube....YONsRJ3UAOojZ0w. Another one call herself Fullyrawchristina https://www.youtube....ullyRawKristina. Michael Arnstein a famous ultramarathoner is also a strong advocate of this type of diet: http://www.thefruitarian.com/  Can you imagine the amount of sugar they consume in one day? It should be detrimental for the health, considering glycation. But they seem to have no problems. And the founder of the fruitarian movement Doug Graham is in his 70's still alive and vigorous, despite following this lifestyle for the better part of his life.

Edited by Maecenas, 17 August 2014 - 12:10 AM.

[drew_ab]

I wanted to ask about your opinion on fruitarianism. It's considered to be a suicidal diet by many. I've been subscribed to a channel of one of the principal propagandists of this diet - Frelee. She's been on that diet for almost 7 years. She is 34 - looks 24 and seems to be thriving on that diet, sometimes eating up to 30 bananas a day. She claimed to have a medical check with normal results.  Here's a link to her youtube channel: https://www.youtube....YONsRJ3UAOojZ0w. Another one call herself Fullyrawchristina https://www.youtube....ullyRawKristina. Michael Arnstein a famous ultramarathoner is also a strong advocate of this type of diet: http://www.thefruitarian.com/  Can you imagine the amount of sugar they consume in one day? It should be detrimental for the health, considering glycation. But they seem to have no problems. And the founder of the fruitarian movement Doug Graham is in his 70's still alive and vigorous, despite following this lifestyle for the better part of his life.

 

I've often wondered quite a bit about the raw vegan diet as well - particularly it's fruit based version.  The number of fruitarians with youtube channels seems to be growing rapidly, but that's besides the point (though they all seem so healthy and vibrant).

 

My problem with the diet is that there isn't really much data on outcomes.  For example, in my opinion the burden of proof for a plant-based diet being safe has been established to a degree that satisfies my need for evidence (due to the work of gentleman like Dr. Ornish, Dr. Esselstyn, Dr. Greger, etc). 

 

For example, if data had been published showing arresting or reversal of disease on a fruit-based diet, I would feel more confident in it.  I do feel that they will most certainly fair better than those eating the standard-American diet though. 

 

Most certainly our genes matter here, the question is how much.  As I understand it, through evolution we all have tremendous difference in the number of copies of the gene for digesting amylase (starch).  It's something like as few as 2 and as many as 16.  I wonder if people who have many copies of the gene do better on a starch based diet, and those who have very few could do well on a fruit based diet... (or some other iteration). 

 

Does fructose from fruit contribute to glycation the same way that refined fructose does?

[Darryl]

Does fructose from fruit contribute to glycation the same way that refined fructose does?

 

Šebeková, K., Krajčovičová-Kudláčková, M., Schinzel, R., Faist, V., Klvanová, J., & Heidland, A. (2001). Plasma levels of advanced glycation end products in healthy, long-term vegetarians and subjects on a western mixed diet. European journal of nutrition, 40(6), 275-281.

 

The vegetarian cohorts eating up to twice the fruit and five times the honey as omnivores had up to 30% more plasma fluorescent AGEs and 23% higher levels of carboxymethyllysine. It's long been known that fructose, present in its reactive open-chain conformation much more commonly than glucose, has about 10x the in vitro glycation efficacy. That said, the amount of fructose that escapes to the systemic circulation is probably highly dependent on how glycogen replete the liver is: the ultra-bikers and ultra-marathon runners subsisting on fruit on YouTube are probably doing fine, but I don't consider it an option given my more moderate exercise.

 

we all have tremendous difference in the number of copies of the gene for digesting amylase (starch)...I wonder if people who have many copies of the gene do better on a starch based diet

 

The majority of us are between 4 and 8 copies. Even populations which have subsisted mostly on animal products since preagricultural times have several fold the amylase copies found in chimps, pointing to common reliance on starches as seasonal fallback foods during our common evolution. While those with more copies may obtain more calories from starches, I'd expect that to be to their detriment. The starch digestion inhibitor acarbose has demonstrated benefit in extending mice lifespan.

 

Personally, I aim for somewhat calorically and protein restricted low glycemic starch-based. I aim for 3 servings of darkest berries though, there's nothing comparable as anthocyanin sources, and 4-5% of calories as natural fructose is pretty trivial compared to the 20+% in added fructose some pre-diabetics in my nation consume.  

Edited by Darryl, 17 August 2014 - 05:16 PM.

[pleb]

Interesting post. A few months ago on a regional news channel here in the UK they showed a short documentary about a family in Brazil. The father was 62 mother 60 and a daughter 42.
The father looked perhaps slightly older than his age the daughter the same. Both slightly over weight. The mother had read a book written by a vegetarian when she was a girl and decided that killing animals for food was bad and would only eat raw vegetables with some fruit and although she cooked for her husband and daughter presumably typical Brazilian dishes she had from about the age of six eaten nothing but raw vegetables with a reasonable amount of fruit. The mother was slim had a good figure and was very attractive and looked about 40.

[Logic]

You may want to look into adding Dill and perhaps Blackberry leaves to your diet and/or applying extracts topically:
http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=560239

Also consuming the herbs and veg mentioned here may help:
http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=565970

White tea?
http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=670184

Edited by Logic, 18 August 2014 - 10:18 AM.

[Shinsou]

I wanted to ask about your opinion on fruitarianism. It's considered to be a suicidal diet by many. I've been subscribed to a channel of one of the principal propagandists of this diet - Frelee. She's been on that diet for almost 7 years. She is 34 - looks 24 and seems to be thriving on that diet, sometimes eating up to 30 bananas a day. She claimed to have a medical check with normal results.  Here's a link to her youtube channel: https://www.youtube....YONsRJ3UAOojZ0w. Another one call herself Fullyrawchristina https://www.youtube....ullyRawKristina. Michael Arnstein a famous ultramarathoner is also a strong advocate of this type of diet: http://www.thefruitarian.com/  Can you imagine the amount of sugar they consume in one day? It should be detrimental for the health, considering glycation. But they seem to have no problems. And the founder of the fruitarian movement Doug Graham is in his 70's still alive and vigorous, despite following this lifestyle for the better part of his life.

 

Freelee uses a lot of make up though, so it's hard to say. Most males on the fruitarian diet look pretty bad though. I mean Doug Graham is the prime example he doesn't look young at all, definitely looks his age (face). Of course he has a great body, from training for over 30 years I think.

Durianrider seems to have aged a lot as well in the last years, (probably from eating cooked high carb). There are quite a few more on the fruitarian diet who looked quite old, no day younger than their real age.

 

Michael Arnstein looks great though I gotta say, guess his marathon running helps.

 

 

But yeah, eating A LOT of raw veggies is certainly the best for anti aging, I have seen a lot of people on raw diets who looked great.

Annette Larkins, Mimi Kirk ect.

 

I mean it's obvious live foods should provide the most health benefits, by cooking you kill everything off.

 

 

It's tough eating so many greens on a low fat diet though, protein is also quite low obviously.

For a woman a raw diet is certainly great, but I'm trying to put on muscle atm, not really going to happen on 45g of protein.

 

Also you need to be living in a good climate to get fresh tropical fruit, living on bananas and dates only in the winter gets pretty old fast.

 

Sticking to a ketogenic diet atm, skin is feeling great. Omega 3 and olive oil ftw.

[Darryl]

Adding another recent paper to my synopsis above:

 

Husein‐ElAhmed, H., Aneiros‐Fernandez, J., Gutierrez‐Salmeron, M. T., Aneiros‐Cachaza, J., & Naranjo‐Sintes, R. (2013). Relationship between food intake and cutaneous solar elastosis adjacent to basal cell carcinoma. Journal of the European Academy of Dermatology and Venereology, 27(1), 25-30.

 

Average exposure to UV-light and smoking were both positively associated with elastosis.

Vitamin E or C-rich fruit (an aggregate of mango, orange, grapefruits, strawberry,pineapple, watermelon, apple, apricot, kiwi, banana, peach) and tea (green or black) were both associated with less elastosis.

 

No surprises.

Edited by Darryl, 03 October 2014 - 04:22 PM.