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Cold feet and slightly cold hands from just a little bit of juice?

cold feetcold hands extremeties sugar carbs circulation

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#1 navyblue

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 05:54 PM


Has anyone ever gotten very cold feet and slightly cold hands from just a little bit of juice? It seems that anytime I have anything with refined sugar such as white bread, juice, etc that contain cane sugar, or high fructose corn syrup, my hands and feet, especially in the toes get very cold. The only things that seem to help right now is bilberry, fish oil, and butcher's broom. Horse Chestnut works somewhat okay. Pycnogenol and pine bark extract makes my hands and feet much worse. Totally lost as to what might be going on, so if anyone has suggestions or have gone through this before I would greatly appreciate the input. Any ideas?



#2 Gerrans

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 12:58 AM

I do not know about juice. But niacinamide warms up my fingers (I suffer from chilblains).

 

I have mentioned niacinamide here before, because I have never seen any reference to its warming qualities (niacin, yes). But I am certain of it. To see if it works with you, let your fingers get cold and then take some niacinamide. For me it is dose dependent, and about two capsules or more does it. Takes up to three quarters of an hour to kick in. The fingers warm up one by one.

 

*

 

I do not know why some of us get cold extremities. It did not happen to me until I became older and thinner. I think the capillaries and blood vessels start to malfunction, meaning the body cannot transfer heat so well. People call it poor circulation, but it is only the extremities that suffer. The secret is rather dull, which is to avoid getting cold. Have a warm house, wear plenty of clothes. It is easy not to notice how cold one is, so I keep a thermometer in each room of the house.


Edited by Gerrans, 09 February 2015 - 01:06 AM.

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#3 navyblue

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 04:00 AM

Thank you a ton for your reply! At this point i am just about willing to try all the supplements out there. Niacin would have never come to mind but I will definitely give it a go tomorrow after dropping by the health food store. I do have some picamilon but i am guessing it might best to stick with the niacin in its original form. Sometimes I wonder if I might be diabetic or on my way to becoming so, but everytime I see my doctor and they take my blood (usually in the morning), she tells me my glucose levels look fine.

 

GERD however is something I do suffer from but am currently able to keep it under control about 75% of the time. As far as temperature goes I tend to keep it at about 75 degrees. Cold weather however doesn't seem to ignite the situation for me though. If I eat clean then I really do not get an issue. But if I have anything that is slightly refined. Such as grape juice, apple juice, etc, then it just feels like all the blood may be shooting straight to my stomach, or I have a high sugar level which my body isn't handling. Even if its just one sip.

 

Especially notice it when I wake in the morning and then have something a little sweet like a sip of juice. Or basically right after my body is in hunger mode and I haven't eaten in a while, then the slightest refined thing I have after that and bam, cold feet and hands all over again. That is when I will pop a couple of bilberry capsules and/or butchers broom. Pycnogenol however seems to make the situation much worse which completely throws me off because although they each have different active components I thought that pycnogenol and bilberry acted in similar ways in the circulatory system. Again thank you for the suggestion. Will definitely post back on how the niacin works out.



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#4 Gerrans

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 12:48 PM

Niacinamide, though--not niacin. Niacin does give a flush, but niacinamide gives a gentler, different, more lasting effect. It is so subtle that you might not notice it is happening until you specifically experiment with it, as I did repeatedly. I was not taking niacinamide for that reason, so it took me some time to work out. I think our extremities get cold when the blood vessels constrict there, so that warmth can be preserved in the core. Niacinamide must work by dilating the constricted blood vessels, allowing blood to circulate better in the cold parts.

 

I eat totally clean, no refined stuff at all. But I still get cold extremities. Some foods are tangibly warming, though--oats definitely, even if their effect only lasts a couple of hours. I love the warming feeling from oats, which is mildly blissful. Again, I experimented at length to make sure I was not imagining it. Unlike with niacinamide, the effect of oats is well known (I remember the Ready Brek ads from when I was a kid, showing someone walking in the cold with a halo of warmth around them).

 

This winter my fingers are partly blainy, because I cannot help but get them cold from time to time. But, surprisingly, my feet are doing much better this year. I wonder if this is because I am using a hot water bottle in bed instead of wearing loads of socks. My feet can get cold even with six pairs of socks on, but the hot water bottle sustains their warmth all night. And it allows the skin more freedom.

 

Best of luck.


Edited by Gerrans, 09 February 2015 - 12:59 PM.


#5 StevesPetRat

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 12:49 AM

Niacinamide, though--not niacin. Niacin does give a flush, but niacinamide gives a gentler, different, more lasting effect. It is so subtle that you might not notice it is happening until you specifically experiment with it, as I did repeatedly. I was not taking niacinamide for that reason, so it took me some time to work out. I think our extremities get cold when the blood vessels constrict there, so that warmth can be preserved in the core. Niacinamide must work by dilating the constricted blood vessels, allowing blood to circulate better in the cold parts.

I wonder if this is due to serotonin's vasoconstrictive effects. Sugars / carbs are supposed to increase serotonin synthesis, and many fruits contain serotonin itself (perhaps for motility induction -- the plant needs ya to poop those seeds out before they digest). According to Ray Peat, Certified Quack, niacinamide antagonizes serotonin receptors, though literally every other source I find suggests that niacinamide ought to increase serotonin. So who the hell knows. Why did I comment on this again?

Anyway, niacinamide is great stuff, whatever its ultimate effects on serotonin. Thiamine can also be an important deficiency to consider, as it strongly affects the autonomic nervous system. This in turn can reduce the availability of acetylcholine for peripheral vasodilation. Its deficiency also impairs glucose metabolism.


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#6 navyblue

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 05:30 AM

Gerrans I went ahead and picked up some Solaray Niacin No Flush  Capsules (500mg) hexaniacinate from the local nutrion shop. Is this one okay as far as its makeup and quantity or do you think the niacinamide would be even better?

 

http://www.amazon.co...=solaray niacin

 

All I have to say is that this stuff is awesome, so a big thank you for suggesting the niacinamide route although this is the hexaniacinate. Finally I was able to get through a day at work without the terrible discomfort of cold feet. Also took note of what you said about the external temperature having an effect and sure enough inside my office they run the air condition very cold. So much so that I have to put my jacket on. Another thing I noticed the was that sitting down for extended periods seems to exacerbate it as well. I can get it while standing but majority of times I notice it when seated and thought maybe something to do with the sciatic nerve. So between sugary foods, sitting down for extended periods and cold temperatures I am still unable to pinpoint the exact cause. I took pycnogenol about 2 1/2 hours after taking the hexaniacinate and this i believe reduced the niacin's effectiveness by about 15-25%. It was like the hexaniacinate and the pyconogenol were duking it out. One wanting to make my feet warmer the other wanting to make my feet colder. It would be a bit of a loss if I couldn't take pycnogenol anymore as it helps a ton with my concentration and focus.

 

Up until now I had thought that the problem was possible "chronic venous insufficiency" and was taking supplements to combat it. However I think CVI responds better to vasoconstrictors. Both rhodiola and cayenne pepper make my feet very cold until they wear off. A possible vasconstrictive effect. Makes me wonder if pycnogenol is a vasconstrictor as well. Will have to try this with a lot of coffee to see if I get the same vasoconstrictive response thereby leading to cold feet. Oatmeal is great and definitely like to eat it on occassion, however I do not seem to get that same warming feeling that you get from it. It actually seems to make my feet cold as well. Ginger however does seem to give a bit of that warming sensation. I'd say having something that is generating heat such as the water bottle seems to be better than using the socks to retain heat that might not be there. What about a heating pad? Or maybe even icy hot? For me placing icy hot or tiger balm underneath clothing only made it hotter. FIsh oil also seemed to help keep feet warm but the effects were short lived, i'd say about 3 hours.

 

I wonder if this is due to serotonin's vasoconstrictive effects. Sugars / carbs are supposed to increase serotonin synthesis, and many fruits contain serotonin itself (perhaps for motility induction -- the plant needs ya to poop those seeds out before they digest). According to Ray Peat, Certified Quack, niacinamide antagonizes serotonin receptors, though literally every other source I find suggests that niacinamide ought to increase serotonin. So who the hell knows. Why did I comment on this again?

Anyway, niacinamide is great stuff, whatever its ultimate effects on serotonin. Thiamine can also be an important deficiency to consider, as it strongly affects the autonomic nervous system. This in turn can reduce the availability of acetylcholine for peripheral vasodilation. Its deficiency also impairs glucose metabolism.

 

 

Thanks for the info on the bit about serotonin and thiamin. Actually didn't know serotonin was vasoconstrictive, this could explain some things as I try to put the pieces together inorder find out what in the world could be going on. Thiamine would definitely be something to look into as well. My glucose metabolism does feel all messed up so it looks like I will be taking a trip back to shop to pick up some thiamine and see what happens. Do you have any brands and/or dosage you might recommend?



#7 StevesPetRat

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 09:42 AM

Thanks for the info on the bit about serotonin and thiamin. Actually didn't know serotonin was vasoconstrictive, this could explain some things as I try to put the pieces together inorder find out what in the world could be going on. Thiamine would definitely be something to look into as well. My glucose metabolism does feel all messed up so it looks like I will be taking a trip back to shop to pick up some thiamine and see what happens. Do you have any brands and/or dosage you might recommend?

This fat soluble form is highly effective and crosses the BBB. I take 200 mg twice a day (it's expensive), but I was a heavy drinker for a while and have screwed up autonomic nervous system function (developed many of the side effects of alcohol months after I quit, ironically). This stuff measurably improves a condition that nothing else touched. You may be able to get similar results from a huge dosage of thiamine HCl or thiamine mononitrate. I have heard of people using 1500 mg / day of those, which would still only run like $0.10 / day. Only side effects are typically due to inadequate magnesium or sometimes riboflavin or B3 to accompany it. Not everyone will benefit from B1 megadoses, of course.

#8 Gerrans

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 11:38 AM

 

Niacinamide, though--not niacin. Niacin does give a flush, but niacinamide gives a gentler, different, more lasting effect. It is so subtle that you might not notice it is happening until you specifically experiment with it, as I did repeatedly. I was not taking niacinamide for that reason, so it took me some time to work out. I think our extremities get cold when the blood vessels constrict there, so that warmth can be preserved in the core. Niacinamide must work by dilating the constricted blood vessels, allowing blood to circulate better in the cold parts.

I wonder if this is due to serotonin's vasoconstrictive effects. Sugars / carbs are supposed to increase serotonin synthesis, and many fruits contain serotonin itself (perhaps for motility induction -- the plant needs ya to poop those seeds out before they digest). According to Ray Peat, Certified Quack, niacinamide antagonizes serotonin receptors, though literally every other source I find suggests that niacinamide ought to increase serotonin. So who the hell knows. Why did I comment on this again?

Anyway, niacinamide is great stuff, whatever its ultimate effects on serotonin. Thiamine can also be an important deficiency to consider, as it strongly affects the autonomic nervous system. This in turn can reduce the availability of acetylcholine for peripheral vasodilation. Its deficiency also impairs glucose metabolism.

 

 

I find niacinamide helpful towards motility. Research backs that up too. I am sure, as you say, this is because it stimulates movement through receptors on cells. Niacinamide is found everywhere throughout the body, and I think one of its main functions is triggering movement, whether it be of blood cells, the intestines, or whatever.

 

There is a strand of thought on here that niacinamide increases aging, by affecting sirtuins--but I have decided not to be bothered by that, after reading copious information on the subject. I think the research goes both ways on that topic. We age every day, whether we like it or not, and I doubt niacinamide is any more involved in that process than anything else. Certainly I doubt a small pill can age me.

 

I have experimented with thiamine and not noticed any effect. But I take a B vitamin.

 



#9 Gerrans

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 11:59 AM

Gerrans I went ahead and picked up some Solaray Niacin No Flush  Capsules (500mg) hexaniacinate from the local nutrion shop. Is this one okay as far as its makeup and quantity or do you think the niacinamide would be even better?

 

http://www.amazon.co...=solaray niacin

 

 

Up until now I had thought that the problem was possible "chronic venous insufficiency" and was taking supplements to combat it.

 

I do not know that make. I do not take niacin, as such, because I hate the flush--though I should maybe try the no-flush type. I do take a decent B vitamin, so I get some niacin and (thiamine). I take it at the same time as niacinamide, because it is possible they go well together, from what I have read.

 

*

I have been all round the blocks thinking I had this, that, or the other syndrome causing me this sometimes ridiculous tendency to get cold. But, really, feeling the cold is a common condition enough. (My dad and grandmother had chilblains, so that is genetic.) I feel a bit embarrassed, now that I am in the same boat, to have spent a lifetime laughing at the people I have known, mostly women, who go through life like walking fridges. For a lot of people, it is part of the human condition. Maybe we were never designed to live this far north.

 

*

 

My days of bravado about "not feeling the cold" are over. This has been since a slightly frightening experience that happened to me one evening. I was sitting up late at the computer and fell asleep. Later I awoke physically shaking. I put all the heating on full blast and stood in front of a blower, and I think what shocked me the most was how long it took me to warm back up--when I thought it would take only a few minutes as usual. I remember then thinking "If I am not careful, this is how I could die".

 

Not long afterwards, an old couple down the road were found unconscious by the health visitor in a state of severe hypothermia. They were both in hospital for three months after that, and the lady was then moved to a home. Gordon, the chap, told me the details, and he said a heating pipe in the house had frozen without them knowing.

 

This brings me back to the possible reason the hot water bottle works for me. As you say, it is adding new heat to the feet all the time, whereas socks might just hold cold or moisture in when the extremities cannot generate enough heat of their own. I learned from my hypothermic incident that warmth is not just about immediate circumstances but about the balance between core heat and peripheral heat over time. The colder we get on the outside, the more precarious our core heat becomes, as it approaches a tipping point. Usually the core wins, however cold our fingers feel, by robbing Peter to pay Paul; but if it, too, starts losing heat, then our overall ability to warm back up is compromised, and warming up must take longer. So I have realised the reason my feet are less prone to getting cold during the day this winter is that I probably give them a head start by roasting them all night. Feeling warm in the moment, I now grasp, is a 24-hour operation, like running a storage heater.


Edited by Gerrans, 11 February 2015 - 12:23 PM.

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#10 Darryl

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 08:57 PM

Some citrus polyphenols are vasodilators:

 

Takumi, H., Nakamura, H., Simizu, T., Harada, R., Kometani, T., Nadamoto, T., ... & Terao, J. (2012). Bioavailability of orally administered water-dispersible hesperetin and its effect on peripheral vasodilatation in human subjects: implication of endothelial functions of plasma conjugated metabolitesFood & function3(4), 389-398.

 

 

 

Hesperetin is an aglycone of citrus flavonoids and is expected to exert a vasodilatation effect in vivo. We developed water-dispersible hesperetin by the process of micronization to enhance the bioavailability of hesperetin. This study aimed to assess the effect of this process on the bioavailability of hesperetin and to estimate its efficiency on vasodilatation-related functions using endothelial cells in vitro and a human volunteer study at a single dose in vivo. We found that water-dispersible hesperetin was absorbed rapidly, with its maximum plasma concentration (Cmax) being 10.2 ± 1.2 μM, and that the time to reach Cmax, which is within 1 h if 150 mg of this preparation was orally administered in humans. LC-MS analyses of the plasma at Cmax demonstrated that hesperetin accumulated in the plasma as hesperetin 7-O-β-D-glucuronide (Hp7GA), hesperetin 3′-O-β-D-glucuronide (Hp3′GA) and hesperetin sulfate exclusively. Similar to hesperetin, Hp7GA enhanced nitric oxide (NO) release by inhibiting nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate-oxidase (NADPH oxidase) activity in a human umbilical vein endothelial cell culture system, indicating that plasma hesperetin metabolites can improve vasodilatation in the vascular system. A volunteer study using women with cold sensitivity showed that a single dose of water-dispersible hesperetin was effective on peripheral vasodilatation.These results strongly suggest that rapid accumulation with higher plasma concentration enables hesperetin to exert a potential vasodilatation effect by the endothelial action of its plasma metabolites. Water-dispersible hesperetin may be useful to improve the health effect of dietary hesperetin.

 

 

Hesperetin content (mg/100 g)

Limes                 43.0
Lemons, without peel  27.9
Oranges               27.3
Juice, tangerine      22.0
Oranges, navels      21.9
Juice, lemon          14.5
Juice, blood orange   12.7
Juice, orange         12.0

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