20 replies to this topic

[Trippy 1]

Hey Everyone,

 

I've gotten a bit careless the past couple months with my kratom and tianeptine (brand names Stablon, Coaxil, Tatinol, Tianeurax and Salymbra) use and feel some unpleasant tolerance and dependence settling in. I use kratom a maximum of 3 times a week with doses between 10-15 grams in the evening before I work out. This was working well, except I would always feel a little out of it the next morning. I wake up a little foggy and have a hard time finding pleasure in anything. Physically I experience mild fatigue and a runny nose, especially in the afternoon.

 

I began using tianeptine on my days off kratom to mitigate these side effects and it worked like a charm. I started at 24mg 3 times a day with 4 hours between each dosage. I experience a mood boost, more energy, and increased libido.

 

After following this cycle for 2 months, my tianeptine dosage has elevated to 48mg and I will occasionally dose 4 times a day depending on how early I get up. My kratom dose has increased as well and I take around 18 grams to achieve the same effects. I'd like to note that I rotate between Bali and Maeng Da strains and never use extracts.

 

It's clear I need to take some time off both of these substances, but I'm experiencing some withdrawal symptoms as I lower my tianeptine dosage. Around 4 hours after each dose, I begin to feel anxious and restless. My energy crashes and chest gets tight.

 

My question is should I drop the kratom or tianeptine first? Which would you consider the lesser of the two evils? I have some time off for the holidays and I want to clean up before I get busy again.

 

I've done some research and grabbed a few things to help me through the process. I'm just not sure how or when I should utilize these different supplements and would really appreciate it if you could chime in and give me some advice. Here's what I have on hand:

• Aleve
• Loperamide
• Propanolol (20mg)
• Tagamet
• Small supply of Valium (5mg)

 

I try to exercise at least an hour everyday and stay well hydrated. Please help me get through this, I've heard it's very comparable to opioid withdrawal. I've yet to go 24 hours without using one or the other so I don't really know what to expect when I hop off.

 

Thanks in advance for your advice. I will check back in frequently.

[pleiotropic]

Agmatine sulfate is supposed to be useful for addiction.  Most of the evidence is in animals for opioid withdrawal and addiction prevention though (morphine[1] [2] , alcohol, nicotine).   Agmatine has been tested in humans and found to be generally safe.   There are a few anecdotal reports around the web of people using it for kratom issues.

 

afaik powdercity is the best quality (independently tested in the US) and affordable source of agmatine.  It's where I got mine from anyway.  Can't comment on using it for withdrawal purposes myself, I just use it pre-workout for the exercise benefits.

 

 

Dosages that have been safely used in humans per Examine.com:

 

 

 

There are no standard dosages for agmatine because of the lack of human evidence for its effects. However, a single human study used 1,300-2,670mg of agmatine, daily for the treatment of neuropathic pain. The estimated human dose for improving cognition is 1.6-6.4mg/kg of agmatine, taken orally. This is based off of the 10-40mg/kg dosage range for rats, and is equivalent to 217-435mg for a 150lb person. Supplementation should not exceed 6.4mg/kg of bodyweight.

 

[Trippy 1]

Pleiotropic,

Thanks for your reply. I actually have some agamatime on hand because I use it pre-workout as well. I love the pumps I get off that stuff.

Anyways, this isn't the first time I've heard it mentioned for opiod withdrawal. I will look into it more and possibly add this to my regime.

Does anyone here have experience with this?

Edited by Trippy 1, 25 November 2015 - 11:33 PM.

[Doc Psychoillogical]

You could try taking 

DL-Phenylalanine 2g

Vitamin C 2-3g

L-theanine 200-400mg

[Trippy 1]

Thanks for the suggestion. I already take L-Tyrosine first thing in the morning for mood and energy support. Would combining this with DL-Phenylalanine be overkill?

[Doc Psychoillogical]

Not at all, you would only benefit. ALTHOUGH..

Just make sure to have the Cofactors to get it all to the brain, and to feel it working.

Folate, vitamin B6, magnesium and vitamin C must all be at optimal levels in order for neurotransmitters to function properly.

[Doc Psychoillogical]

KRATOM AND TIANEPTINE both are mostly active as pain killing substances, here is some info to mimic and help your recover rate: (DPA=dl-phenylalanine)

 

Pain relief occur within ten minutes after the ingestion of as little as 500mg of DPA. Our usual dose in chronic pain patients is 500-2000mg of dl-phenylalanine, two to four times a day.

The therapeutic use of particular amino acids in supplement form can often provide surprisingly quick and dramatic improvements in pain relief.Use of DL-Phenylalanine to Raise Endorphins.

DPA causes slowing down this endorphin-reducing mechanism can diminish pain within twenty-four hours.

In our clinical trials, we have seen pain relief occur within ten minutes after the ingestion of as little as 500mg of DPA.

 

[blog='https://www.moodcure...oid-system.html']Source[/blog]

Edited by Mr. Psychillogical, 26 November 2015 - 05:51 AM.

[fntms]

I thought dlpa had been shown to provide no actual pain relief in serious studies... Take a look at pubmed perhaps before spending money and time on another supplement.
Wouldn't slow tapering be the best option?

[Trippy 1]

Interesting, I've never heard about DLPA having pain reducing properties. A slow taper is my current plan of action. How slow would you recommend and which of the two should I try to wean off first? Tianeptine has such a short half life that re dosing throughout the day becomes a hassle.

[Doc Psychoillogical]

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10998643

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/6128872

 

D-phenylalanine (DPA) decreases pain by blocking the enzymes that break down the body’s natural painkillers. Clinical studies suggest DPA may inhibit some types of chronic pain.

Certain amino acids have been found to raise pain thresholds and increase tolerance to pain. One of these, a synthetic amino acid called D-phenylalanine (DPA), decreases pain by blocking the enzymesthat break down endorphins and enkephalins, the body’s natural pain-killing chemicals.^{10 , 11} DPA may also produce pain relief by other mechanisms, which are not well understood.¹²

In animal studies, DPA decreased chronic pain within 15 minutes of administration and the effects lasted up to six days.¹³ It also decreased responses to acute pain. These findings have been independently verified in at least five other studies.^{14 , 15}Clinical studies on humans suggest DPA may inhibit some types of chronic pain, but it has little effect on most types of acute pain.^{16 , 17}

Most human research has tested the pain-relieving effects of 750 to 1,000 mg per day of DPA taken for several weeks of continuous or intermittent use. The results of this research have been mixed, with some trials reporting efficacy,^{18 , 19 , 20}others reporting no difference from placebo,²¹ and some reporting equivocal results.²² It appears that DPA may only work for some people, but a trial period of supplementation seems worthwhile for many types of chronic pain until more is known. If DPA is not available, a related product, D,L-phenylalanine (DLPA), may be substituted at amounts of 1,500 to 2,000 mg per day.

 

[Trippy 1]

Thanks for citing all of those studies. I have some DL-Phenylalanine and may give it a try. I'm starting my taper tomorrow and will report back with my progress.

[jonnyD]

I would just drop the tianeptine instantly and take low kratom doses (1-2g) 2-3 times per day.

That should stop all withdrawal symptons and you can slowly taper off. 

[fntms]

I would taper both, but lower the kratom more quickly as it is a cardiotoxic substance (tianeptine is not toxic but one should never exceed the 12.5mg tid dose).

[jonnyD]

I would taper both, but lower the kratom more quickly as it is a cardiotoxic substance (tianeptine is not toxic but one should never exceed the 12.5mg tid dose).

Do you have any sources for kratom being cardiotoxic in vivo?

Kratom "feels" more healthy for me but that does not prove anything. 

Edited by jonnyD, 27 November 2015 - 05:50 PM.

[gamesguru]

Traditional Chinese and Indian medicine in the treatment of opioid-dependence: a review
Fatemeh Doosti,1 Saeedeh Dashti,1 Seyed Meghdad Tabatabai,1 and Hossein Hosseinzadeh2.  2013.
Objective: In this study, the current literatures on the use of herbs and herbal preparations of Traditional Chinese and Indian Medicine for the treatment of opioid addiction were reviewed.
Matherials and Methods: Search was done in databases such as Pub Med, Science Direct, Scopus, Springer Link, and Google Scholar.
Results: Among 18 retrieved studies, 3 studies were about asafetida extract, an approved preparation for ameliorating drug abstinence in China. Chinese preparations including Composite Dong Yuan Gao, Qingjunyin and TJ-97 (a water extract of dai-bofu-to) as well as Indian ones, Mentate and Shilajit, were reported to have positive effects against opioid withdrawal, dependence, and tolerance. Moreover, Levo-tetrahydropalmatine and L-Stepholidine, in addition to extracts of Caulis Sinomenii and Sinomenium acutum showed similar effects.
Banxia Houpu Decoction, Fu-Yuan pellet, Jinniu capsules, Qingjunyin, Tai-Kang-Ning capsule, and Xuan Xia Qudu Jiaonang (WeiniCom) from Chinese preparations, showed anti-addiction effects in randomized, double-blind and, in some studies, multicenter clinical trials.
Conclusion : Traditional herbal preparations of China and India have anti-addiction effects with less adverse effects than alpha2-adrenergic or opioid agonists.

 

Preclinical profile of bacopasides from Bacopa monnieri (BM) as an emerging class of therapeutics for management of chronic pains.
Rauf K1, Subhan F, Al-Othman AM, Khan I, Zarrelli A, Shah MR.  2013.
Chronic pains management costs billions of dollars in medical exchequer to the world population. Additionally, 77% of people with chronic pains also have a degree of medically treatable depression. Opioids have a narrower safety index due to their side effects associated with its tolerance, hyperalgesia and subsequent dependence. Likewise, non steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs and anticonvulsants, also have limited safety and tolerability profile in the management of chronic pains. Bacopa monnieri, a renowned ayurvedic medicine has a strong antidepressant effect and significant antinociceptive effect, which is comparable to the effect of morphine via adenosinergic, opioidergic, and adrenergic mechanisms. BM has been also reported to be effective in neuropathic pains. Additionally, it has a strong anti-inflammatory effect mediated via COX-2 inhibitory mechanism. Apart from its effect of augmenting morphine analgesia, BM also inhibits opioid-withdrawal induced hyperalgesia, and acquisition and expression of morphine tolerance. BM is reported to have a strong protective effect against toxic effects of opiates on major organs like brain, kidneys and heart. BM is well documented to be safe and well tolerated herbal therapy in multiple clinical trials including various age groups. This minireview evaluated the preclinical data that highlights potential of BM as a future candidate for clinical management of chronic pains.

--------------------------------------------

Impact of Cannabis Use during Stabilization on Methadone Maintenance Treatment
Jillian L. Scavone PhD1, Robert C. Sterling PhD2,*, Stephen P. Weinstein PhD2 andElisabeth J. Van Bockstaele PhD1.  2013.
Background and Objectives:  Illicit drug use, particularly of cannabis, is common among opiate-dependent individuals and has the potential to impact treatment in a negative manner.
Methods:  To examine this, patterns of cannabis use prior to and during methadone maintenance treatment (MMT) were examined to assess possible cannabis-related effects on MMT, particularly during methadone stabilization. Retrospective chart analysis was used to examine outpatient records of patients undergoing MMT (n = 91), focusing specifically on past and present cannabis use and its association with opiate abstinence, methadone dose stabilization, and treatment compliance.
Results:  Objective rates of cannabis use were high during methadone induction, dropping significantly following dose stabilization. History of cannabis use correlated with cannabis use during MMT but did not negatively impact the methadone induction process. Pilot data also suggested that objective ratings of opiate withdrawal decrease in MMT patients using cannabis during stabilization.
Conclusions and Scientific Significance:  The present findings may point to novel interventions to be employed during treatment for opiate dependence that specifically target cannabinoid–opioid system interactions.

Opioid- and GABA(A)-receptors are co-expressed by neurons in rat brain.
Treatment of Acute Opioid Withdrawal with Ibogaine

--------------------------------------------

Exercise as a Potential Treatment for Drug Abuse: Evidence from Preclinical Studies
Mark A. Smith1 and Wendy J. Lynch2.  2011.
Epidemiological studies reveal that individuals who engage in regular aerobic exercise are less likely to use and abuse illicit drugs. Until recently, very few studies had examined the causal influences that mediate this relationship, and it was not clear whether exercise was effective at reducing substance use and abuse. In the past few years, several preclinical studies have revealed that exercise reduces drug self-administration in laboratory animals. These studies have revealed that exercise produces protective effects in procedures designed to model different transitional phases that occur during the development of, and recover from, a substance use disorder (e.g., acquisition, maintenance, escalation, and relapse/reinstatement of drug use). Moreover, recent studies have revealed several behavioral and neurobiological consequences of exercise that may be responsible for its protective effects in these assays. Collectively, these studies have provided convincing evidence to support the development of exercise-based interventions to reduce compulsive patterns of drug intake in clinical and at-risk populations.

Does Exercise Deprivation Increase the Tendency Towards Morphine Dependence in Rats?
Endorphins, Exercise, and Addictions: A Review of Exercise Dependence
Physical exercise, endogenous opioids and immune function.

Edited by gamesguru, 27 November 2015 - 07:00 PM.

[fntms]

I would taper both, but lower the kratom more quickly as it is a cardiotoxic substance (tianeptine is not toxic but one should never exceed the 12.5mg tid dose).

Do you have any sources for kratom being cardiotoxic in vivo?
Kratom "feels" more healthy for me but that does not prove anything.

1. PLoS One. 2014 Dec 23;9(12):e115648. doi: 10.1371/journal.pone.0115648. eCollection 2014.

Evaluation of the cardiotoxicity of mitragynine and its analogues using human induced pluripotent stem cell-derived cardiomyocytes.

Lu J(1), Wei H(2), Wu J(1), Jamil MF(3), Tan ML(4), Adenan MI(5), Wong P(2), Shim W(2).


INTRODUCTION: Mitragynine is a major bioactive compound of Kratom, which is derived from the leave extracts of Mitragyna speciosa Korth or Mitragyna speciosa (M. speciosa), a medicinal plant from South East Asia used legally in many countries as stimulant with opioid-like effects for the treatment of chronic pain and opioid-withdrawal symptoms. Fatal incidents with Mitragynine have been associated with cardiac arrest. In this study, we determined the cardiotoxicity of Mitragynine and other chemical constituents isolated using human induced pluripotent stem cell-derived cardiomyocytes (hiPSC-CMs). METHODS AND RESULTS: The rapid delayed rectifier potassium current (IKr), L-type Ca2+ current (ICa,L) and action potential duration (APD) were measured by whole cell patch-clamp. The expression of KCNH2 and cytotoxicity was determined by real-time PCR and Caspase activity measurements. After significant IKr suppression by Mitragynine (10 µM) was confirmed in hERG-HEK cells, we systematically examined the effects of Mitragynine and other chemical constituents in hiPSC-CMs. Mitragynine, Paynantheine, Speciogynine and Speciociliatine, dosage-dependently (0.1∼100 µM) suppressed IKr in hiPSC-CMs by 67%∼84% with IC50 ranged from 0.91 to 2.47 µM. Moreover, Mitragynine (10 µM) significantly prolonged APD at 50 and 90% repolarization (APD50 and APD90) (439.0±11.6 vs. 585.2±45.5 ms and 536.0±22.6 vs. 705.9±46.1 ms, respectively) and induced arrhythmia, without altering the L-type Ca2+ current. Neither the expression, and intracellular distribution of KCNH2/Kv11.1, nor the Caspase 3 activity were significantly affected by Mitragynine. CONCLUSIONS: Our study indicates that Mitragynine and its analogues may potentiate Torsade de Pointes through inhibition of IKr in human cardiomyocytes.

PMCID: PMC4275233 PMID: 25535742 [PubMed - in process]

Not in vivo but good enough for me.

Edited by fntms, 28 November 2015 - 09:18 AM.

[Doc Psychoillogical]

henylalanine

DL-phenylalanine (DLPA)
D-phenylalanine
L-phenylalanine

Phenylalanine helps create the neurotransmitters — chiefly norepinephrine, epinephrine or adrenalin, and dopamine — that produce mental arousal, alertness, and a better emotional state. It is often used by those attending raves.
Food sources: Almonds, aspartame (NutraSweet), beef, black beans, chicken, cottage cheese, dairy products, eggs, fish, lima beans, milk, nuts, peanuts, pumpkin and sesame seeds, soybeans, sunflower seeds, watercress. Plants contain mostly the "D" form, while animal products contain mostly the "L" form.
Effects: Phenylalanine may contribute to a more positive mental state, alertness, more motivation and ambition, more energy, an increase in learning ability, better memory, and an increased ability to focus and pay attention. (Leon Chaitow, N.D., D.O., claims on the "D" form produces these beneficial results, while Mark Mayell claims that the "L" form stimulates the nervous system and libido, enhances mood and cognition, and suppresses the appetite, whereas the "D" form elevates mood and enhances memory, and DLPA combines the effects of both.) It may help counter jet lag when taken first thing in the morning or right after a long flight, as it helps regulate the body's biological clock. It is believed that DLPA activates the morphine-like endorphins in the body, hormones which act as painkillers.
One study has shown that a significant percentage of individuals suffering from depression exhibited rapid improvements in mood when given 500 mg/day of L-phenylalanine (which was gradually increased to 3 to 4 g/day), along with 100 to 200 mg a day of vitamin B-6 to facilitate the effects of the amino acid. Another study showed significant improvements in those with depression when 250 mg of L-phenylalanine was combined with 5 to 10 mg of Eldepryl. In combination with B-6, it produces the compound phenylethyalmine (PEA), which may elevate mood based on its action as a neurotransmitter. There is some evidence that, in combination with other substances, phenylalanine can help suppress addictive behavior and cravings, but there is no evidence that is suppresses appetite or enhances libido.
A deficiency can result in mood swings, weight gain, and problems with blood circulation.
Precautions: It should not be taken by those with pigmented malignant melanoma cancer, phenylketonuria (or PKU, a genetic metabolic disorder), psychosis, or Wilson's disease (otherwise known as hepatolenticular degeneration, a rare hereditary disease chiefly characterized by a toxic buildup of copper in the organs and tissues of the body). Likewise, those taking MAO-inhibitor drugs should avoid phenylalanine, as should pregnant or lactating women. Early studies seem to indicate that phenylalanine and tyrosine encourages growth of melanomas (skin cancers — one of the most deadliest forms of cancer), and doctors usually have patients restrict their intake of these amino acids. Those with high blood pressue should only take it under the guidance of a health professional.
Some warn that the daily dosage should not exceed 2.4 grams a day. Too much phenylalanine can result in over-stimulation, nervousness, heart palpitations, high blood pressure, and irritability; if taken later in the day, it may cause insomnia. Mayell says these symptoms only occur with the "L" form, and can be avoided by reducing the dosage, switching to DLPA, or taking it only in the morning. Other symptoms include headaches and nausea.
Dosage: The RDA has not been established. It is recommended that both "D" and "L" forms be used, especially in the treatment of depression or for increased energy. A dose for 1000 to 1500 mg of DLPA may be taken in the morning without food; a second dose may be taken later in the day, this time with 100 mg of B-6, 500 mg of vitamin C, and some fruit or fruit juice to help convert the amino acid to norepinephrine. Hendler, M.D., Ph.D., recommends no more than 1.5 g/day, with 20 to 30 mg/day of vitamin B-6 (not to exceed more than 50 mg/day). Mayell advocates a more modest dose of 375 to 500 mg of the "L" form or 750 to 1000 mg of DLPA, first thing in the morning at least 30 minutes before breakfast.


Chaitow, Leon, ND, DO. The Healing Power of Amino Acids. Wellingborough, England: Thorsons Publishing Group, 1989.
Mayell, Mark. Natural Energy. New York: Three Rivers Press, 1998.
Hendler, Sheldon Saul, MD, PhD. The Doctor's Vitamin and Mineral Encyclopedia. New York: Simon and Schuster, 1990.


Encyclopedia of Mind Enhancing Foods, Drugs and Nutritional Substances (David W. Group, 2000), Minor edits made by me (continuity).
http://freakshare.co....-2000.pdf.html






Depression-Free, Naturally (Joan Mathews-Larson, 1999)
http://books.google....yWfIIC&pg=PA185

The above book points out a few pages prior that symptoms indicating low norepinephrine include: lethargy, fatigue, sleeping too much, and feelings of immobility. (http://books.google....yWfIIC&pg=PA180)

Additionally, Ester C may be poor. Another form of vitamin C should be used. http://vitamincfound....org/esterc.htm

[Trippy 1]

Thanks for all of the replies. I'm 3 days free of kratom with very little side effects. Mild cold and runny nose are the worst of it. I'm still using Tianeptine 3 times a day and will hop off this as well once I'm stable off the kratom. I've been using DLPA and Tyrosine in the mornings with good effects. Any more advice is much appreciated.

[Trippy 1]

Update: I'm clean off of all substances today and I'm feeling great. What I ended up doing was quitting the kratom cold turkey and tapering down the Tianeptine slowly. My Tianeptine habit had gotten quite bad over the last month so I was worried this would be the tougher of the two to hop off. The kratom withdrawal was relatively painless and I think having the Tianeptine in my system counteracted a lot of the withdrawal symptoms I would have been feeling from the kratom. I was a bit tired for a few days with a minor headache and runny nose, but that was the worst of it.

Once I stopped taking Tianeptine I used a combination of Loperamide, Tagamet, grapefruit juice, agmatine, caffeine, L-tyrosine, and DLPA for three days to cope with it. The Loperamide definitely helped with the physical discomfort, but made my stomach sound like a science experiment all day with some constipation and discomfort. It was well worth it though, IMO. I took 400mg Tagamet and 8oz GFJ 45mins prior to dosing the Loperamide to help its effectiveness.

Day 1: 24mg
Day 2: 18mg
Day 3: 10mg
Day 4: 6mg

My daytime withdrawal symptoms were very minimal throughout this entire process. The most difficult part was the restlessness from some rebound anxiety and insomnia waking up a couple hours every night.

I think this was pretty good considering my Tianeptine habit got up to ~150mg the last day I was taking which far exceeds the recommended daily dose.

As far as the other supplements I used in this process, I took the agmatine 1-2x a day at 1g preworkout, 500mg l-tyrosine upon waking on an empty stomach, and DLPA on an empty stomach between meals. I also consumed 200mg of caffeine via capsules early in the morning to deal with fatigue. I wouldn't use any more than this because it can heighten anxiety and effect sleep at higher doses.

A sedative strain of quality cannabis and melatonin helped with sleep as well, but weren't perfect. I still woke up every couple hours, but the cannabis made laying in bed watching reruns on TV much more tolerable. It also helped with some of the muscular tension I experienced.

If anyone has questions or needs advice that is going through a similar situation, I'm more than happy to help. Shoot me a PM or reply to this directly and I'll get back to you.

Again, THANK YOU for everyone that responded to my post. This is a pretty awesome forum with some very knowledgeable users.

Until next time ✌

Edited by Trippy 1, 11 December 2015 - 03:52 PM.

[Bro Smurf66]

I was going to answer your question about getting off of Tianeptine or Kratom first, but It sounds like you're all better now. Congrats Trippy 1! For anyone else reading this, I've noticed that Tianeptine WD's are way more unpleasant than Kratom WD's, and the WD's last around the same amount of time (for me anyways).

 

"Tianeptine is a low-affinity full agonist at the μ-opioid (mu-opioid) and δ-opioid (delta opioid) receptors with negligible effect at the κ-opioid receptors. " (Wikipedia, 2016), while Kratom is a partial-agonist of the mu-opioid receptors. Common sense shows, in theory, that Kratom would be easier to get off of, because when you take kratom, only parts of your mu-opoioid receptors are being saturated with opioids, whereas tianeptine saturates all your delta and mu opioid receptors completely, and even partially saturates the kappa opioid receptors as well (but K-opioid receptors shouldn't be an issue in this case).

 

Plus, Tianeptine stimulates the activity of Serotonin transporters, which pump serotonin across synapses faster than normal, leaving less serotonin between the synapses. This tells your brain that there isn't enough serotonin inbetween you synapses, so your brain produces and releases more serotonin to counteract this. Having said that, many people aren't aware that the enzyme which is used to produce Dopamine is the same enzyme that is used to produce Serotonin. So, if your brain is producing more Serotonin, while at the same time downregulating production of Dopamine (Tianeptine automatically releases dopamine, and over time leads to downregulation), Tianeptine withdrawals will most likely be more intense due to this reason (and you'd also be going through a serotonin withdrawal). 

 

 

 

*****Studies from the Government have concluded that*****:

 

"Synthesis of serotonin from 5-HTP and dopamine from l-dopa is catalyzed by the same enzyme, L-aromatic amino acid decarboxylase (AAAD). Dopamine and serotonin amino acid precursor administration must be in proper balance. If only 5-HTP or 5-HTP that dominates dopamine at the enzyme is administered, it will block dopamine synthesis at the AAAD enzyme through competitive inhibition, leading to depletion of dopamine and the rest of the catecholamines." (http://www.ncbi.nlm....es/PMC3415362/)

[jroseland]

I did a video summarizing the discussion here (and on reddit) abut Kratom withdrawal...

 

The most hated man in the Kratom community (who's definitely not a crypto-KGB agent) drops some knowledge on Biohacking Kratom tolerance and opioid addiction with Nootropics and herbal Adaptogens.

 

Watch: Withstand Kratom Withdrawal: Potentiating the positive and mitigating the negative effects of Kratom