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Metformin

life extension compound blood sugar management metformin

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55 replies to this topic

#31 orion22

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Posted 31 July 2018 - 08:14 PM

I get #90 500mg tablets for $0.67 USD with a script and insurance. Not sure why my insurance foots the bill without a type 2 diagnosis though, but it does.

"script" do i need something from the doctor to buy this from thsi site 



#32 TheFountain

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 05:59 AM

I think the risk has been way overplayed, especially for otherwise healthy individuals that take Metformin.

 

I would caution against alcohol consumption especially if combining something like keto with Metformin.
 

Do you think Keto+Metformin=Hypoglycemia?



#33 Heisok

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 04:40 PM

I have not had a Hypoglycemic episode, and I regularly test. 500 mgs to 1,000 mgs per most days.


Edited by Heisok, 15 August 2019 - 04:41 PM.

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#34 Nate-2004

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 07:13 PM

I don't think metformin is needed or even useful with Keto.

 

What frustrates the hell out of me is that metformin has two awful things about it. One is that it blunts the net positive effects of exercise according to a recent study. The other is that it reduces testosterone levels. So for someone like me with naturally high blood glucose levels in the morning and difficulty with juggling happiness with a strict, unenjoyable diet of mostly vegetables and low GI foods, I've got a lot to juggle here.  I can deal with not having enough testosterone, sort of, but the fact that exercise becomes useless is kind of a real (and typical of life) catch 22. I have exercised consistently for four days a week for years and it has kept me in good shape with depression at bay, now what, I have to be depressed and out of shape with no sex drive but at least my A1C is normal? 

 

I'm done here. There's no winning against aging right now. At all. Not without being miserable one way or another.  Or maybe I just take it on days when I am both not working out and not fasting. So.. basically a few times a month.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...ubmed/20071560/

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...ubmed/22040838/

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5296448/


Edited by Nate-2004, 15 August 2019 - 07:19 PM.


#35 TheFountain

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 05:44 AM

I have not had a Hypoglycemic episode, and I regularly test. 500 mgs to 1,000 mgs per most days.

 

Just to confirm, you are non-diabetic and also take a plethora of other supplements?



#36 pamojja

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 10:26 AM

Thanks for pointing out:

 

I can deal with not having enough testosterone, sort of,
 

 

Would explains my testosterone-drop this year:

year:  mcg  -  hrs  - ng/ml -  TT

2009:   50  -       -       -
2010:  160  -   60  -   63  -  399
2011:  140  -   60  -   43  -  220
2012:  300  -   60  -   62  -  262
2013:  200  -  220  -   84  -  320
2014:  190  -  220  -   50  -  340
2015:  210  -  220  -   78  -  351
2016:  170  -  240  -   72  -  468
2017:  220  -  340  -  101  -  631
2018:  170  -  340  -   93  -  681
2019:  180  -  300  -   85  -  368

Added intake of vitamin D/day, whole-body sunexposures in hours/year, 25(OH)D and total testosterone serum levels. Because vitamin D levels was the only marker correlating really well with my testosterone increase.

 

Since 2012 I took about 850 mg/d of metformin during my yearly 6-week vacation to a South-Indian beach, a country on the high side of carbs. This year I continued with 500 mg/d at home.


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#37 Nate-2004

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 01:20 PM

It sucks and I really honestly don't know what to do about it. Most of the scientists in the biogerontology field are right, you can't win trying to anti-age by messing with metabolism, not by enough to matter and not without significant hits to quality of life.

 

That same link talks about Sulfonylureas. It induces higher insulin levels which isn't good for you, and not good for longevity at all, but guess what... It increases testosterone. 

 

If there were ever a creator (obviously there wasn't), he or she was a sadistic prick.  Every single drug out there that solves one problem always causes another to the degree that it almost eliminates the point of the solution. It's like the story "The Gift of the Magi". 


Edited by Nate-2004, 16 August 2019 - 01:26 PM.


#38 Kodiak

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 02:05 PM

Hi Nate,

 

Just spitballing here, but if Metformin's life extension benefits come from keeping glucose in check and/or increasing AMPK, what about other alternatives that don't decrease testosterone or negate the benefits of exercise such as alpha lipoic acid (ALA), cyanidin 3-glucoside (c3g), or some combination of cinnamon, chromium and vanadyl sulfate? I'm coming at this from a bodybuilding slant where glucose disposal agents (GDAs) like these are used after a workout to help partition nutrients more effectively into muscle instead of fat. In fact, I've read over the years many lifters use Metformin after a workout for this purpose (assuming their workout drink or shake has ample amounts of simple sugars, BCAAs, creatine, etc, which seems to pretty much be standard practice). My point is, I think other options exist beside Metformin, I'm just not sure how effective they might be. 

 

Are you on TRT? That would certainly erase any issues Metformin has with lowering testosterone but like you say, it's more "one drug solving one problem but causing other problems."

 

Could one take Metformin many hours after or before exercise to lower any exercise benefit interference? Not sure what the half-life of Metformin is...

 

Regarding your naturally high glucose levels in the morning, would consuming more fat before bed help blunt that early morning spike? Sorry, I can't recall if you eat dairy but maybe a little full-fat cottage cheese before bed so you'd have some slow-digesting protein in your system overnight to help keep you anabolic plus the fat to maybe help blunt the glucose rise hours later?

 

Again, mostly talking out loud here...

 

 


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#39 pamojja

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 02:30 PM

It sucks and I really honestly don't know what to do about it.

 

Not really. Only had problems with pharmaceuticals, like aspirin or metformin. Never any with comprehensive and high dose supplementation with nutrients, any other life-style changes, or LDN. Even reversed a walking-disabilty this way, considered non-reversible by conventional medicine.

 

 

.. not by enough to matter and not without significant hits to quality of life.

But maybe it needs disabilty first, to be able to appreciate how much such a remission adds to quality of life.



#40 Heisok

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 03:53 PM

Nate, thanks for the information. pamojja, thanks for the data. You quantify most things extremely well, so if you think of anything else which might have effected the Testosterone, please post again.

 

TheFountain, Yes I am non-Diabetic, and take other supplements.



#41 Nate-2004

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 08:29 PM

Hi Nate,

 

Just spitballing here, but if Metformin's life extension benefits come from keeping glucose in check and/or increasing AMPK, what about other alternatives that don't decrease testosterone or negate the benefits of exercise such as alpha lipoic acid (ALA), cyanidin 3-glucoside (c3g), or some combination of cinnamon, chromium and vanadyl sulfate? I'm coming at this from a bodybuilding slant where glucose disposal agents (GDAs) like these are used after a workout to help partition nutrients more effectively into muscle instead of fat. In fact, I've read over the years many lifters use Metformin after a workout for this purpose (assuming their workout drink or shake has ample amounts of simple sugars, BCAAs, creatine, etc, which seems to pretty much be standard practice). My point is, I think other options exist beside Metformin, I'm just not sure how effective they might be. 

 

Are you on TRT? That would certainly erase any issues Metformin has with lowering testosterone but like you say, it's more "one drug solving one problem but causing other problems."

 

Could one take Metformin many hours after or before exercise to lower any exercise benefit interference? Not sure what the half-life of Metformin is...

 

Regarding your naturally high glucose levels in the morning, would consuming more fat before bed help blunt that early morning spike? Sorry, I can't recall if you eat dairy but maybe a little full-fat cottage cheese before bed so you'd have some slow-digesting protein in your system overnight to help keep you anabolic plus the fat to maybe help blunt the glucose rise hours later?

 

Again, mostly talking out loud here...

 

I imagine that if you wanted to get the most out of metformin with the least amount of problems, you would try to limit use of it to a smaller, well timed dose. For instance, I may try keeping my diet carb free until an hour after my workout, then take 500mg with any carbs I might eat that day. The half life of metformin is about 6 hours. So by the time I worked out again the next day assuming I work out that day, it'll likely have been 24 hours. That means maybe 30mg left at most is in your system, and hopefully negligible. If you've ever done half life calculations the following day after that you'd probably have about 60 mg left but it would start maxing out by that time, it wouldn't build up in a diminishing way to where after a month at most you'd have 75mg left. What you could do to solve that is to fast some days and not take it, or eat no carbs and not take it that day. So it'd be sort of a keto diet but with a lot of flexibility and you wouldn't ever be in ketosis, at least not in any significant way.

 

Also, taking less of it later in the day would mean your body has enough time during the night to perhaps produce more testosterone which is apparently highest in the mornings.  So you have the right idea. 

 

TRT can be problematic and has its own set of issues entirely. What if TRT negates the benefits of metformin? What if it impacts your body's ability to produce T on its own? T is also a function of insulin. I do know insulin causes its own problems too.

 

I wish there were some easier way to have my cake and eat it too, literally.



#42 mikeinnaples

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Posted 19 August 2019 - 12:05 PM

Do you think Keto+Metformin=Hypoglycemia?

 

Keto+Metformin+Alchohol consumption = increased risk of of ketoacidosis.

 

You pretty much have to stick to vodka/cabernet/whiskey/etc because of low/no carb content to drink on keto anyhow. However, my suggestion based on personal experience would be to keep it to a drink or two.


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#43 Psy

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 02:19 AM

@Nate-2004 How about Acarbose?



#44 Nate-2004

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 05:13 AM

@Nate-2004 How about Acarbose?

 

 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
I've not even read anything about it till just now when I see you mention it. What's it's mechanism of action? How does it prevent the breakdown of foods into glucose? I think the answer's in there somewhere. I wonder if it's been studied all that much. Metformin has been studied quite a lot but only lately in combination with exercise.


#45 Psy

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 02:03 AM

 

 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
I've not even read anything about it till just now when I see you mention it. What's it's mechanism of action? How does it prevent the breakdown of foods into glucose? I think the answer's in there somewhere. I wonder if it's been studied all that much. Metformin has been studied quite a lot but only lately in combination with exercise.

 

 

https://onlinelibrar...1111/acel.12898
 



#46 Nate-2004

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 08:16 PM

 

Interesting, apparently male mice did a lot better for whatever reason. I wonder what effects there are aside from slowing conversion to glucose during digestion. How does it affect exercise compared to metformin? How does it affect testosterone?

 

In the case of Berberine, which is similar to metformin, Berberine lowers testosterone even more so than metformin, which sucks. 


Edited by Nate-2004, 22 August 2019 - 08:17 PM.


#47 APBT

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 05:20 PM

Interesting, apparently male mice did a lot better for whatever reason. I wonder what effects there are aside from slowing conversion to glucose during digestion. How does it affect exercise compared to metformin? How does it affect testosterone?

 

In the case of Berberine, which is similar to metformin, Berberine lowers testosterone even more so than metformin, which sucks. 

 

My n=1 experiment:

I've taken berberine HCl since February 2019, at a dose of 500 mg, 2 - 4 times daily (totaling 1000 mg - 2000 mg). 

My last blood test was July 2019.  My fasting total testosterone was 1105 (LabCorp reference range 264 -916 ng/dL).


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#48 Nate-2004

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 05:50 PM

My n=1 experiment:

I've taken berberine HCl since February 2019, at a dose of 500 mg, 2 - 4 times daily (totaling 1000 mg - 2000 mg). 

My last blood test was July 2019.  My fasting total testosterone was 1105 (LabCorp reference range 264 -916 ng/dL).

 

Interesting. How old are you though?



#49 APBT

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 06:44 PM

Interesting. How old are you though?

 

Late 50s.


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#50 TheFountain

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Posted 30 August 2019 - 11:59 PM

I have not had a Hypoglycemic episode, and I regularly test. 500 mgs to 1,000 mgs per most days.

 

Were you Pre-diabetic or Diabetic when beginning your metformin supplementation?


My n=1 experiment:

I've taken berberine HCl since February 2019, at a dose of 500 mg, 2 - 4 times daily (totaling 1000 mg - 2000 mg). 

My last blood test was July 2019.  My fasting total testosterone was 1105 (LabCorp reference range 264 -916 ng/dL).

 

You're saying the berberine is raising your testosterone?

 

I have some Berberine that's been sitting around but i'm not sure if I should take it alongside Bergamot extract or not. 



#51 TheFountain

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 12:01 AM

Keto+Metformin+Alchohol consumption = increased risk of of ketoacidosis.

 

You pretty much have to stick to vodka/cabernet/whiskey/etc because of low/no carb content to drink on keto anyhow. However, my suggestion based on personal experience would be to keep it to a drink or two.

 

You're talking about Alcohol. I don't drink.

 

What I am asking is since Keto already naturally lowers blood sugar prospectively, would adding Metformin to the mix lower it to a potentially hypoglycemic extent?



#52 Heisok

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 02:04 AM

I was in the high 90's when I started Metformin many years ago. Still around there today with Keto (low protein) and Keto higher protein.



#53 TheFountain

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 04:33 AM

I was in the high 90's when I started Metformin many years ago. Still around there today with Keto (low protein) and Keto higher protein.

 

Did your Doc consider you diabetic or prediabetic? 

 

Or did you start taking Metformin on your own volition? 


Edited by TheFountain, 31 August 2019 - 04:34 AM.


#54 APBT

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 04:43 PM

 


 

You're saying the berberine is raising your testosterone?

 

I have some Berberine that's been sitting around but i'm not sure if I should take it alongside Bergamot extract or not. 

 

No, I'm saying in my n=1 experiment, berberine did not lower my total testosterone. 


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#55 TheFountain

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Posted 01 September 2019 - 01:49 AM

No, I'm saying in my n=1 experiment, berberine did not lower my total testosterone. 

Pardon me, I have not read the research you're referring to so was unaware there was a Potetial for Berberine to lower TT!

 

What do you think of Stacking Berberine and Bergamot? Too much? One or the other?



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#56 TheFountain

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Posted 03 September 2019 - 03:14 AM

So guys,

 

My Metformin came! Damn this stuff looks beautiful.

 

But i'm scared to take it yet. 

 

I'm still taing Bergamot and contemplating the berberine. 

 

WSID?


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