78 replies to this topic

[Madman]

Synesthesia

 

Any chance you can post up photos of your ageless looks at 60 ?

 

 

 

 

[Dorian Grey]

Synesthesia

 

Any chance you can post up photos of your ageless looks at 60 ?

 

Wouldn't want to risk it going viral as privacy is important at my age.  

 

My avatar is a portrait of Dorian Gray, and though I see some subtle differences as I look in the mirror, my mother believes I'm his doppelganger.  

[Kalliste]

This has been a good thread please don't vendett it to pieces.

Did anyone around here note that Mosley on BBC made a piece on curcumin? The results were a positive, the people who cooked with it had different epigenetic activity. The people who only ate supplements did not see any genetic change!

[Madman]

 

Synesthesia

 

Any chance you can post up photos of your ageless looks at 60 ?

 

Wouldn't want to risk it going viral as privacy is important at my age.  

 

My avatar is a portrait of Dorian Gray, and though I see some subtle differences as I look in the mirror, my mother believes I'm his doppelganger.  

 

 

Understood, thanks

[Madman]

This has been a good thread please don't vendett it to pieces.

Did anyone around here note that Mosley on BBC made a piece on curcumin? The results were a positive, the people who cooked with it had different epigenetic activity. The people who only ate supplements did not see any genetic change!

 

Cosmicalstorm - who and what are you referring to with "Vendett it" ?

[Kalliste]

Sorry I thought you were a poster from the first page who now took a potshot at him. My mistake

[Madman]

Sorry I thought you were a poster from the first page who now took a potshot at him. My mistake

 

[ironfistx]

The aspect I remember most about curcumin is that it gave me diarrhea further on in the day after I took it. One other thing is i couldn't get a boner even while trying to get aroused.

I found this in another thread:
 
macropsia posted

Curcumin worked well (....almost as well as DOI or ayahuasca), but also immediately did away with sex drive. Boswellia seemed better at first (300 mg per day initially, then lowered to 150), but after two or three days I began to become tired and quite depressed, which seemed to abate with reduction of boswellia. The only mechanism I was able to find that might be implicable would involve effecting the cortisol cortison balance

Source: http://www.longecity...a-side-effects/

Edited by ironfistx, 06 January 2017 - 09:43 PM.

[cesium]

Another dark side of curcumin exists if you are at risk for lung cancer.

Lung tumor promotion by curcumin

Curcumin exhibits anti-inflammatory and antitumor activity and is being tested in clinical trials as a chemopreventive agent for colon cancer. Curcumin's chemopreventive activity was tested in a transgenic mouse model of lung cancer that expresses the human Ki-ras^G12C allele in a doxycycline (DOX) inducible and lung-specific manner. The effects of curcumin were compared with the lung tumor promoter, butylated hydroxytoluene (BHT), and the lung cancer chemopreventive agent, sulindac. Treatment of DOX-induced mice with dietary curcumin increased tumor multiplicity (36.3 ± 0.9 versus 24.3 ± 0.2) and progression to later stage lesions, results which were similar to animals that were co-treated with DOX/BHT. Microscopic examination showed that the percentage of lung lesions that were adenomas and adenocarcinomas increased to 66% in DOX/BHT, 66% in DOX/curcumin and 49% in DOX/BHT/curcumin-treated groups relative to DOX only treated mice (19%). Immunohistochemical analysis also showed increased evidence of inflammation in DOX/BHT, DOX/curcumin and DOX/BHT/curcumin mice relative to DOX only treated mice. In contrast, co-treatment of DOX/BHT mice with 80 p.p.m. of sulindac inhibited the progression of lung lesions and reduced the inflammation. Lung tissue from DOX/curcumin-treated mice demonstrated a significant increase (33%; P = 0.01) in oxidative damage, as assessed by the levels of carbonyl protein formation, relative to DOX-treated control mice after 1 week on the curcumin diet. These results suggest that curcumin may exhibit organ-specific effects to enhance reactive oxygen species formation in the damaged lung epithelium of smokers and ex-smokers. Ongoing clinical trials thus may need to exclude smokers and ex-smokers in chemopreventive trials of curcumin.

 

[Dorian Grey]

Of Mice and Men...  A compelling read for an old smoker like me!  

 

I've seen this study before, & wish I understood it better.  If I understand correctly the mice in this study were genetically predisposed to lung cancer and curcumin seemed to further promote carcinogenesis in this population through some kind of pro-oxidant action.  

 

I've read similar reports about Vitamin-C becoming pro-oxidant where iron is concerned through redox cycling...  Particulate from tobacco smoke is high in iron and this has been postulated as perhaps the primary carcinogenic component of tobacco smoke (polonium being the other primary suspect).  

 

Curcumin is supposed to be an iron chelator, and perhaps the chelation process involves redox cycling potential similar to Vitamin-C.  

 

http://flipper.diff....s/pathways/6861

 

I'm attempting to circumvent this problem through co-therapy with IP6 (Inositol Hexaphosphate), which theoretically is supposed to chelate both labile iron and polonium/uranium multivalent metals.  

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/17627956

 

http://www.longecity...of-lung-cancer/

 

I assume any pro-oxidant action from Curcumin or Vitamin-C (with tobacco use) would produce symptoms of deteriorating lung function, which I have not observed.  I still have no smokers hack after over 40 years huffing on my pipe, & climb the 205 steps over the San Diego convention center to the waterfront for cocktails most every weekend without getting winded.  I've been on both IP6 & enhanced absorption curcumin for over half a decade.  

 

I may be betting my life on this, so wish me luck!  Further input on this subject would be appreciated.  

Edited by synesthesia, 14 January 2017 - 06:08 AM.

[cesium]

Sorry I thought I had put in the link for the abstract I posted above.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2691137/

[cesium]

synesthesia curcumin has also displayed some good qualities against lung cancer metastasis so I don't want to trash it, just pointing out the possible negative since that's the subject of this thread. As a smoker (or former smoker) check out saffron, tocotrienols, watercress, number of other things. (don't want to go too far off topic here)

[joelcairo]

I've also seen such studies, so I think the idea that curcumin is selectively dangerous to the lungs is false. In fact I just did a quick search in Google Scholar for curcumin lung cancer, and 7 of the results on the first page showed anticancer effects, and the remaining 3 were not directly on topic. That's hardy a comprehensive literature search, but the point is that the science is at worst mixed.

 

More likely, assuming this result is accurate, it somehow exacerbates the effects of chronic toxicity such as due to doxycycline [in the previously cited study] or pipe smoking. This would be similar to the famous study showing that vitamin E and beta carotene are contraindicated for smokers. In normal lungs or in cases where the cancer has already been initiated, the effects could be quite different.

 

[cesium]

I agree, I've seen studies that it probably has a preventative effect, useful for COPD, ect. But ever since I've has a number of indeterminite nodules show up on a cat scan, I've decided to leave it alone. Just thought I'd throw this study in as a precaution for anyone who already has lung cancer, or like me, has a good possibilty of getting it in the near future with indeterminite lung nodules exibiting on imaging tests.

[Kalliste]

I switched to more frequent dosing of red chili pepper for the capasaicin content, supposed to be good for lung cancer prevention, mostly because frequent curcumin takes away some part of my sexual desire. 

 

Sometimes I smoke cannabis, no tobacco. I wonder how curcumin interacts with that?

 

That particular mouse study is a bit suspicious, shame she did not seem to continue that research.

 

Postulate Stephanie Dance Barnes is right and curcumin has that effect on users: Then anyone exposed to common air pollution might be at risk when dosing curcumin?

Edited by Cosmicalstorm, 23 January 2017 - 09:02 PM.

[joelcairo]

There is a big difference between normal air pollution levels and being a heavy tobacco smoker (or being dosed with doxycycline, which is what was actually tested in that study).

[Kalliste]

Obviously depends on location but some city centers, LA, Delhi, London etc are so polluted I think this might be comparable

 

There is a big difference between normal air pollution levels and being a heavy tobacco smoker (or being dosed with doxycycline, which is what was actually tested in that study).

 

[ironfistx]

IP6

Data on IP6?

[Dorian Grey]

 

IP6

Data on IP6?

 

 

I posted on IP6 as possibly helpful with preventing/treating lung cancer here:

 

http://www.longecity...of-lung-cancer/

 

More on a study of simple myo-inositol preventing lung cancer here: 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/16896044

 

A great monograph on IP6 here:

 

http://www.anaturalh...ol_mono_7.3.pdf

[MarcB]

 

I take iron chelation as positive news for men, certainly for me when looking at my historic of ferritin. I am trying hard and had some success mainly including IP6.

 

Even if the Life Extension Foundation is to my taste sometimes biased, the Table 2 in their last March 2016 magazine gives a good synthesis of the positive studies and mechanisms of action (Table 2: Curcumin and Cancer-Prevention Mechanisms).

 

I recollect a concern I had a couple of years ago when I read of a study showing inactivation of p53, in particular in the case of colon cancer where curcumin is supposed to be most beneficial, e.g. see HERE . It was in an article by Scientific American, “Spice Healer” HERE , where the authors quoted two other negative studies (next to a higher number of positive ones) one of which also pointed to degradation of p53 in the case of myeloid leukemia. However, if I google scholar on curcumin and p53 today you have a very large number of studies showing p53 activation and even p53-independent apoptosis role again for colon cancer. So it looks pretty clear to me where the balance tips today. Having said that, if you get cancer, you need to look careful at curcumin possible inhibitor or enhancer role of the activity of your chemotherapy and you need to discuss carefully with your oncologist.

 

Also, I disliked a letter concluding that, being the number of studies showing positive effects of curcumin much higher than that showing negative effects, it might indicate that there are more researchers evaluating the beneficial effects of curcumin than evaluating its toxicity. It does not sound logical to me and even a bit nasty toward the authors of positive studies as if they were taking dreams for reality.

 

Until I see a much more solid evidence, I err on the safe side with a small dose and use the BCM-95 sold by LEF. I like its anti-inflammatory action and I might have also seen a positive effect on my PSA when in combination with green tea, I3C/DIM and pomegranate extracts.

 

I keep my eye open but this letter honestly does not scary me.

 

PS Thank you Niner for having posted that nice paper.

 

 

albedo  I take Nilotinib (for CML off label) for Parkinson's, which is known to prolong the heart's QT interval and I've read in a couple places Curcumin also prolongs the QT interval.  Have you come across that and do you think it should it be a concern?
 

[albedo]

MarcB, no I did not come across this and I am far, far to be able to provide advise. In any case the best when there are some reasons of concerns is next to your research also to talk to you doctors. What do they say? E.g. I am pretty sure you some across this site: http://www.cmleukemi...e-leukemia.html

 

Edited by albedo, 26 July 2017 - 04:45 PM.

[albedo]

Not read but it looks like a recent and very complete reviews on Curcumin:

 

Nelson KM, Dahlin JL, Bisson J, Graham J, Pauli GF, Walters MA. The Essential Medicinal Chemistry of Curcumin. J Med Chem. 2017;60(5):1620-1637.

http://pubs.acs.org/...medchem.6b00975

[normalizing]

Not read but it looks like a recent and very complete reviews on Curcumin:

 

Nelson KM, Dahlin JL, Bisson J, Graham J, Pauli GF, Walters MA. The Essential Medicinal Chemistry of Curcumin. J Med Chem. 2017;60(5):1620-1637.

http://pubs.acs.org/...medchem.6b00975

 

No double-blinded, placebo controlled clinical trial of curcumin has been successful. - what the fuck!? i thought there were several with positive results!

 

and this - This manuscript reviews the essential medicinal chemistry of curcumin and provides evidence that curcumin is an unstable, reactive, nonbioavailable compound and, therefore, a highly improbable lead.- just WOW. and what the hell is highly improbable lead???

 

anyway, obviously i didnt read the whole article yet, just the introduction and it seems quite interesting this. when i have time ill read it, but hopefuly someone will do it sooner and please tell us of your opinion, thanks!!!

[Captain Obvious]

 

No double-blinded, placebo controlled clinical trial of curcumin has been successful. - what the fuck!? i thought there were several with positive results!

 

 

I tried searching Pubmed for double-blind placebo-controlled studies for curcumin and indeed the results are quite dissapointing. There are of course a lot of positive results for less rigorously controlled studies so this doesn't necessarily mean much except lack of controlled studies so far.

 

Still, it made me think of dropping curcumin from my rather large and costly stack altogether. However, reading for example this thread I have reconsidered.

 

Anybody have more thoughts on this lack of controlled studies on curcumin?

[chris85]

There is one very well conducted study suggesting it prevents diabetes in humans. I think there are 3 in total (double blind placebo controlled human trials) with just curcumin, the other two are lower patient numbers and not published in really good journals like this one was.

 

Chuengsamarn, Somlak, et al. "Curcumin extract for prevention of type 2 diabetes." Diabetes care 35.11 (2012): 2121-2127.

 

The science regarding curcumin is not that convincing, there are hundreds of animal studies for every 1 well controlled human study, it is pretty crazy.

 

Personally I am a believer in curcumin.

 

It is considered a rasayana in Ayurveda suitable for long term disease prevention.

Edited by chris85, 03 August 2017 - 09:32 AM.

[geo12the]

Not read but it looks like a recent and very complete reviews on Curcumin:

 

Nelson KM, Dahlin JL, Bisson J, Graham J, Pauli GF, Walters MA. The Essential Medicinal Chemistry of Curcumin. J Med Chem. 2017;60(5):1620-1637.

http://pubs.acs.org/...medchem.6b00975

 

A few caveats of this article:

 

•  There is a bias from some scientists against anything that has to do with supplements: "CURCUMIN!" eye rolling. "Stupid gullible public." eye rolling. That kind of sentiment taints the objectivity of article.  They mention but vehemently downplay positive results in the clinical trials they are supposed to unbiasedly be  evaluating. Just one example: In discussing a phase IIa study to evaluate the efficacy of curcumin in preventing colon cancer :  "very modest change in the stage 2 group (6.0). For clinical context, a change of 6.0 may move a patient from “normal” to “precancerous” or from “precancerous” to “cancerous”, but this will often result in no change in patient designation." Call me gullible and clueless but an effect that causes a change from “normal” to “precancerous” or from “precancerous” to “cancerous” seems to suggest that curcumin is doing something. But they go out of their way to downplay and minimize the significance as much as possible. 
• Lets get real. Curcumin is NOT a cure all for every ailment of mankind. It's not a miracle cure for cancer. But there is enough research to suggest it may have modest health benefits and may even have some  cancer preventing qualities. 

Edited by geo12the, 03 August 2017 - 05:28 PM.

[normalizing]

well, i only care if its good for depression honestly. cancer will eat you, but depression will stay till the end

[bariotako]

I'm really tired of these contradictory studies, each time we are presented with a miracle product and then we are told that it is dangerous

I'm really tired of these contradictory studies, each time we are presented with a miracle product and then we are told that it is dangerous

[Nate-2004]

For one thing a lot of research focuses on very specific indications for prevention, they barely ever focus on affecting specific biomarkers. This makes for a lot of confounding factors when it comes to the prevention of disease rather than trying to lower inflammation, for example, or moreover, affect specific inflammatory cytokines like c-reactive protein.

 

The research for curcumin is still lacking, not nearly as robust as it could be. Examine has collected either all or most of what we currently know, and yes there are double blind controlled studies, just not that many. https://examine.com/...ments/curcumin/

I think the major focus on curcumin is its ability to curb inflammation, both in the gut and with piperine, elsewhere. Keep in mind that almost always in the case of almost everything consumable, the dose makes the poison. How much curcumin did it take to damage DNA? How little was necessary to affect inflammation? How bioavailable does it need to be? Keep it low and intermittent for now, until we know more.

 

I take ~500mg with piperine maybe 2 to 3 times per week with a fatty meal.

Edited by Nate-2004, 19 March 2018 - 07:15 PM.

[chris85]

Yeah I don't think it is a go to for depression, like for example, St. John's wort. It seems to have some weak effect on this.

 

I'm more interested in its anti-inflammatory properties.