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Sulforaphane and Nicotinamide Riboside: The best combination for maximizing AMPK and the SIRTULINS?

sulfora sulforaphane nicotinamide riboside nad+ sirt1 ampk nrf2 pgc1a bioavailability potency

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#511 sthira

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 12:01 AM

That said, there is too much of a good thing too. I started to follow this procedure and started to feel pretty bad. That's just N=1, but I think I will have to spend some time to calibrate my dose.


Can confirm. I started feeling bummed out by sprouts, man, peculiar, like I was chained to bowling balls by fanaticism; taking two Broccomax a day for a few weeks, that was just too much damned goodness.

So I quit Broccomax (pending more science excitement) and I'll just stick with eating broccoli sprouts, but also I like growing kale sprouts, no doubt kale sprouts have their own secrets unexplored, and sprouted mung beans are nice and crunchy, and alfalfa, radish sprouts = fiery = but careful like Pone says: too much of a good thing can flip at you. Broccoli and radish sprouts, yeah, let us eat some, but then if I eat more and more and then add some unregulated concentrated mix of Jarrow god knows what, I feel upset. Like stomach burning shit. About to puke up sprout acid...

Also I'm addicted to documenting what I eat on cronometer, a mental disease with its own precise psychiatric classification lol and so trying to ALWAYS hit full RDA, well, sprouts just don't seem to add much.

Then there's the risk of homegrowing your very own E. coli O157: H7, and no one fucking wants shiga, man, no one... maybe I just convinced myself to revert back to Broccomax, shit

Rhonda Patrick posted this recently on Instagram: https://www.instagra...=foundmyfitness


If anyone's gonna live to 1,000 it's gonna be Rhonda Patrick's baby: https://mobile.twitt...0452352?lang=en

Has anyone asked what she did with the placenta from that baby, I'm speculating, of course, but there may be a rich blend of glucoraphanin and myrosinase hung up in it:

https://www.theonion...that-1825884082
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#512 pone11

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 12:27 AM

Can confirm. I started feeling bummed out by sprouts, man, peculiar, like I was chained to bowling balls by fanaticism; taking two Broccomax a day for a few weeks, that was just too much damned goodness.

So I quit Broccomax (pending more science excitement) and I'll just stick with eating broccoli sprouts, but also I like growing kale sprouts, no doubt kale sprouts have their own secrets unexplored, and sprouted mung beans are nice and crunchy, and alfalfa, radish sprouts = fiery = but careful like Pone says: too much of a good thing can flip at you. Broccoli and radish sprouts, yeah, let us eat some, but then if I eat more and more and then add some unregulated concentrated mix of Jarrow god knows what, I feel upset. Like stomach burning shit. About to puke up sprout acid...

 

What kind of symptoms did you have on Broccomax other than stomach acid?    I had the most unusual symptom.  I had been feeling very anabolic the last few weeks, gaining weight (muscle) for the first time in years after a long illness.   "Feeling anabolic" basically means that I could feel muscular strength, some energy in the muscle, and I had a subjective sense of the muscle growing.   After I started brewing Avmacol to increase the sulforaphane dose, within a day of starting to take the higher sulforaphane dose, I got brain fog, a general sense of malaise, and my anabolic feeling completely turned off and became a sense of muscular weakness.   

 

I am hoping that this is just a hormetic overdose of sulforaphane and that within two or three days I will return to baseline.

 

Regarding Rhonda: by my calculations that girl is making between $15K and $30K per month now just from subscribers to her Patreon page.  It must be really nice to make a decent wage just for reading science and making videos.

 


Edited by pone11, 14 June 2018 - 12:37 AM.


#513 John250

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 12:45 AM

No, the nitrile enzyme does not deactivate until about 60 centigrade. It survives digestion. That is why they go to the trouble to deactivate it in Broccomax and Avmacol.

The temperature of the body is very close to the target temperature if you process it outside the body. But what is different is the bioabsorption. You get about 35% bioabsorption eating the precursor glucoraphanin in Broccomax / Avmacol, based on Avmacol's studies. You get 70% bioabsorption of sulforaphane. So creating the sulforaphane in a test tube and ingesting it will give you a little more than twice the dose of sulforaphane.

That said, there is too much of a good thing too. I started to follow this procedure and started to feel pretty bad. That's just N=1, but I think I will have to spend some time to calibrate my dose.


They have chewable tabs and encentric coated which is best?
Thanks

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#514 sthira

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 01:38 AM

What kind of symptoms did you have on Broccomax other than stomach acid?


This:

...a general sense of malaise, and ... muscular weakness....


Like, I don't know, hard to explain well, you explained it well, I just didn't feel like getting out of bed, I'll just stay here in the darkness with my dreams and my cat, or if I do have to roll out of blessed sleep I'd be in no mood to keep walking around holding up my smiling head all day. I mean, I work my body pretty hard, alright, as I'm sure most of us here prolly do, and I'm connected to this thing, and I know when it's off. Malfunctioning lol. Overdoing sprouts is kinda like overdoing fasting, maybe, and like you say, a threshold is reached and suddenly it's too much of a good thing -- yes, yes, yes, ye-no, no, no, then it's certain I gotta quit swallowing sprout pills. It's a personal I feel like shit dynamic: lethargic and weak. Like muscles are saying leave me out of your stupid shit today.

I am hoping that this is just a hormetic overdose of sulforaphane and that within two or three days I will return to baseline.


It was for me, I just shelved the Broccomax for another time, and bounced right back within a few days. In my case, I already know I'm a suggestible person, I'm happy to welcome both placebo and nocebo, so if I think something is making me fall of the beam, then it probably is. The mind is duh-powerful.

Regarding Rhonda...


I just wish she was my mom. There. I said it. I mean I adore my own mother, she's inspiring in ten thousand ways, but can you just imagine being the first born of fucking Rhonda Patrick? Jesus. There's our thousand year old infant right there all cuddled beside RP. I love her, she's amazing, I wish her all the success in the world, and that for her immortal baby, too.

#515 pone11

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 01:41 AM

They have chewable tabs and encentric coated which is best?
Thanks

 

If you want to brew sulforaphane in a test tube and then drink that brewed solution, choose the regular form.  I grind that pill to a powder before brewing.  If you want to just swallow a pill, Avmacol claims the enteric form will result in about 15% higher sulforaphane dose in the body.  There is at least one study making the claim the enteric form (not sure if it was Avmacol though) had lower bioavailability.   

 

I have both forms and I use the non-enteric for brewing and the enteric form when I swallow a pill directly.

 

I think going slow would be wise.   I think it would also make a lot of sense to cycle off of this every three days for four days and really pay attention to changes in sense of well being when you are completely free of sulforaphane.   Remember that sulforaphane is basically a kind of hormetic poison/stress.  The body is using it to signal upregulation of antioxidant defenses.   How much poison is too much poison is probably very individual for each person.   If you have poor glutathione status, bad NRF2 genetics, or are in general in poor health, I would have to guess that even small doses might stress you.


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#516 pone11

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 01:49 AM

Like, I don't know, hard to explain well, you explained it well, I just didn't feel like getting out of bed, I'll just stay here in the darkness with my dreams and my cat, or if I do have to roll out of blessed sleep I'd be in no mood to keep walking around holding up my smiling head all day. I mean, I work my body pretty hard, alright, as I'm sure most of us here prolly do, and I'm connected to this thing, and I know when it's off. Malfunctioning lol. Overdoing sprouts is kinda like overdoing fasting, maybe, and like you say, a threshold is reached and suddenly it's too much of a good thing -- yes, yes, yes, ye-no, no, no, then it's certain I gotta quit swallowing sprout pills. It's a personal I feel like shit dynamic: lethargic and weak. Like muscles are saying leave me out of your stupid shit today.


It was for me, I just shelved the Broccomax for another time, and bounced right back within a few days. In my case, I already know I'm a suggestible person, I'm happy to welcome both placebo and nocebo, so if I think something is making me fall of the beam, then it probably is. The mind is duh-powerful.

 

Our symptoms are pretty well aligned actually.  That's significant that you felt this as muscular weakness, albeit you retained a lot more mental energy than I did.     Let's see if others here report an overdose of sulforaphane creating a symptom of muscular weakness.  We might be discovering an important biomarker to establish a good dosing.

 

I am good at acknowledging placebo effects, but in this case I went from the ability to do powerful muscular contractions to an inability to do that very quickly, and if anyone has felt the sensation of being anabolic before, that is not something you imagine or create from the mind.  It's an extremely physiological state that lives inside the muscles and informs the brain, not vice versa.



#517 sthira

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 01:55 AM

...Remember that sulforaphane is basically a kind of hormetic poison/stress.


There -- that's the word I was hunting for : poison. Sorta weakly poisoned by it. Poison Lite. In my hippie universe -- toxic.

#518 sthira

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 03:27 AM

Here, find or rediscover your love for watercress all ye pill poppers:
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#519 pone11

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 03:44 AM

Here, find or rediscover your love for watercress all ye pill poppers:

 

Someone is going to Photoshop an image of Rhonda dressed as a holy figure and caption it "Saint Sulforaphane".


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#520 Castiel

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 12:44 AM

Not sure if previously posted

 

 

"As scientists, we learned that sulforaphane is maximized when broccoli has been heated 10 minutes at 140 degrees Fahrenheit," said Jeffery. "For the consumer, who cannot readily hold the temperature as low as 140 degrees, that means the best way to prepare broccoli is to steam it lightly about 3 or 4 minutes--until the broccoli is tough-tender."-https://www.scienced...50326114810.htm

 

 

 

4 cups of sprouts supposedly might be enough to reach max safe dose.

 

If steaming for 3 to 4 min or the 10 min thing increases 3 to 4 fold sulforaphane maybe one cup might be near limit.   Add to that that I couldn't refind the reference, but I heard putting it in a blender drastically increased sulforaphane after being let sit for 30+ min, iirc[edit, put reference to blender article at bottom].

 

What I do is steam for 3 minutes, put in room temperature water, and add a bit of ground mustard powder and blend for 30 seconds and let sit for 30 minutes.

 

edit

 

 

“You want to cut it into very small pieces and even blend it,” she told Newsweek. One cancer-fighting way to consume the food is by making broccoli soup. However, you’ll want to add blended raw broccoli first and let it sit for 30 minutes before adding to your soup base.  

Chopping and exposing broccoli to the air allows it to activate the enzyme to promote sulforaphanes. In this study, researchers advise letting the broccoli sit for 90 minutes after chopping and Sherzaia said others have recommended at least 40 minutes.-http://www.newsweek....dy-finds-801712

 

 

I'm not sure, but considering there's a competing enzyme inactivated by cooking I think blending should occur after cooking.   You could cut it or blend it raw and let it sit for 90 min prior to cooking as a lot of sulforaphane would have been created and appears heat resistant.  But the dose should be lower than if you blend after steaming for 3 mins or doing the 10 min thing, as that will inactivate the competing enzyme.


Edited by Castiel, 10 July 2018 - 01:13 AM.

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#521 Harkijn

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 06:07 AM

These videos are somewhat older now. Just to be fair to Broccomax: they scored so low in sulforaphane because at the time they did not have the proper formulation yet.


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#522 Harkijn

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Posted 25 December 2018 - 08:19 AM

Just to keep everyone up to date: a recent study finds that SFN blunts the immune reaction of human T Cells. The study abstract was also placed on dr. Patrick's newspage and causes some concern among readers there.

 

I have not read  the full study yet, but I think it worthwile to delve  deeper into this. I hope you will  want to share your thoughts.

 https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/30528536


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#523 Nate-2004

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Posted 25 December 2018 - 03:31 PM

Doubt that's even a bad thing in any case. All the statistical data is still pretty incredible on its own, enough to always keep eating that broccoli. It may be more of a case basis issue, i.e. avoid it if you have this particular infection or disease.


Edited by Nate-2004, 25 December 2018 - 03:32 PM.

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#524 Castiel

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 12:14 AM

I will add that enteric coated garlic + a vitamin c pill is rumored to boost NO, and apparently packs quite an energy punch.  If it does increase circulation it may aid other compounds and their absorption into the various tissues.



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#525 Harkijn

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 03:29 PM

I had never heard about slightly acidic electrolyzed  water (SAEW) before, but apparently, at least in China and Japan, it is an accepted way of chasing Ecoli and other bacteria from foodstuffs.

So it's doubly interesting to note the research that treated broccoli sprouts with SAEW and also found that this treatment raised the amount of myrosinase and sulforaphane considerably. 

 

Of course I am not fond of the idea of food being treated with hydrochloric acid however dilute it may be. Would a similar treatment with  diluted vinegar SAEW also raise sulforaphane? Or even simply rising in water with vinegar....

Well anyway, an interesting read....

 

 https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/30576129


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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: sulfora, sulforaphane, nicotinamide riboside, nad+, sirt1, ampk, nrf2, pgc1a, bioavailability, potency

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