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Manipulating mitochondrial dynamics

nad nad+ c60 mito fission fusion stearic acid mtdna methylene blue

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#2161 Repack Racing

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Posted 07 December 2022 - 07:15 PM

Trying to do everything in one day is too much and is very likely to not work (I'm referring specifically to the Day 1 protocol including fission and senolytics spaced by an hour).

 

It takes a while for these compounds to get through the body, and you can't rush things, or you end up with them all being loaded at once and potentially canceling each other out or causing other issues (for example kidney or liver overloading).

 

Pharmacokinetics are important to take into account.

 

My method is to to do senolytics every 8 days, two days before my rapamycin dose, for the above reasons (and others). 

The only thing I do daily (otherwise) is anti-HERV supplements because HERV needs to be suppressed all the time.

 

smithx,

 

Thanks.  This is exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping to get by posting the protocol here (as opposed to being relegated to obscurity in a separate thread).  This is, in fact, primarily a MITO protocol.  Adding one day of senescence and one day of stem cell does not change that.  The protocols are intrinsically linked.  In fact, TB was working on a revised integrated protocol.

 

TB has made a couple of comments regarding the use of senolytics in combination with fission, thus my choice.  However, after going back through my data, I agree with you.  I have done A LOT of senolytics recently and that may actually be hindering me.

 

I am revising the protocol to remove the senescence piece for now.  Keeping the stem cell part.

 

Also - reducing NAC supps.  I really benefit from NAC, especially for sleep - but only when taken first thin g in the AM.  That doesn't work with this so I am going to scale back to 25% dose in the afternoon.  CoQA is an antioxidant and I accidentally listed it on autophagy day.  That is also removed.

 

Thanks again for the feedback.
 


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#2162 stephen_b

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Posted 07 December 2022 - 09:01 PM

The idea of an integrated protocol is interesting. I did the mitochondrial protocol before the stem cell one back when I started on the protocols. I always felt that the stem cell protocol took away some of the exercise benefits (for me running) of the mito protocol, and that I benefited from doing some mito rounds after a few rounds of the SC protocol.

 

Note the SC protocol did improve my biological age by 3.3 years over 6 months (about 8 rounds), so I consider that a win. I'm about to send out another TruMe kit after an additional 9 months (and about 10 more rounds).


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#2163 Kelvin

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 03:03 AM

I am adjusting both my variant of the C60 protocol and mitochondria protocols to take NMN alone, on alternating days, as the only fission and NAD+ promoter.
 
I have also dropped d-Ribose as unneccessary.
 
I am changing both of my variants of the protocols because, although NMN causes fission in most of the body, it causes mito fusion in the brain.
 
Therefore I will alternate it with fission and NAD+ promoter, Nicotinamide.
 
I want to keep NMN as a fission and NAD+ promoter because of its impressive results on muscles, the cardio-vascular system, and other health benefits I have experienced when using it with the C60 and mitochondrial protocols.
 
 
Here is my updated mito fission/fusion protocol -
 

 
Fission/Fusion Cycle without NMN (to be rotated on a 1 to 1 basis with Fission/Fusion cycles that include NMN)
 
Fission 
 
 
1 gram Nicotinamide
1 gram AKG
20 mgs PQQ
 
 
Fusion 
 
1 gram Sunflower Lecithin (To prevent rise in blood pressure)
2 grams Dihydromyricetin
50 mgs Sulforaphane
1 gram AKG 
20 mgs PQQ
 
 
 
 
Fission/Fusion Cycle WITH NMN (to be rotated on a 1 to 1 basis with Fission/Fusion cycles that do not include NMN)
 
 
Fission 
 
 
1 gram NMN (Do not combine NMN with other fission or NAD+ promoters because although NMN causes fission across most of the body it actually promotes fusion in the brain)
1 gram AKG
20 mgs PQQ
 
 
Fusion 
 
1 gram Sunflower Lecithin (To prevent rise in blood pressure)
2 grams Dihydromyricetin
50 mgs Sulforaphane
1 gram AKG 
20 mgs PQQ
 
 
 
 
Every 3 to 4 mitochondrial cycles I take -
 
3 grams of TMG.  TMG replenishes methyl stores.
 
3 grams Arginine.  Arginine provides fuel to newly enhanced mitochondria.
 
300 mgs Ubiquinol.  Ubiquinol feeds healthy mitochondria.
 
200 mgs R-Alpha Lipoic Acid.  R-ALA provides additional fuel to mitochondria and helps clean up free radicals that may have been created from destroying damaged mitochondria.
 

 

 

Edited by Kelvin, 09 December 2022 - 03:14 AM.

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#2164 EliotH

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Posted 16 December 2022 - 01:19 PM

Maybe he was just going to add DHM to fusion days as it crossed the BBB and promotes fusion.

 

As a side note, Ray Peat passed on Thanksgiving day.

 

 

What happened on the C60 thread was absolutely ridiculous.  We just need to ignore these people who are bent on derailing things. 

 

Here is a link to the latest protocol: https://www.longecit...-58#entry903440

 

Note that TB added some supps to the C60 fusion and fission days.  He was planning to update the mito protocol before things went south.

 

Here is a link to the latest C60 protocol: https://www.longecit...-66#entry917974

 


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#2165 kurt9

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Posted 16 December 2022 - 10:20 PM

He already did. I recently did two rounds of the mitochondrial protocol and took DHM as part of the fusion part.


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#2166 ambivalent

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Posted 18 January 2023 - 04:14 PM

Not sure if this commercial (RiaGev) N+R study had been posted before:

 

https://www.mdpi.com...6643/14/11/2219

 

Only a quick glance, but there appears to be some interesting results, not fabulous on NAD+, but impressive on NADP+ - Sinclair had mentioned one reason to choose NMN over NR was the fact that NMN didn't need to source for phosphates, so might supplementing phosphates be a good idea with N+R?

 

Also, good results on glutathione and cortisol.   



#2167 Jesus Evola

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Posted 07 February 2023 - 09:59 PM

Not sure if this commercial (RiaGev) N+R study had been posted before:

 

https://www.mdpi.com...6643/14/11/2219

 

Only a quick glance, but there appears to be some interesting results, not fabulous on NAD+, but impressive on NADP+ - Sinclair had mentioned one reason to choose NMN over NR was the fact that NMN didn't need to source for phosphates, so might supplementing phosphates be a good idea with N+R?

 

Also, good results on glutathione and cortisol.   

 

I'm an author on the referenced paper.  Happy to chat about any of the results.  


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#2168 cap3

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Posted 19 March 2023 - 01:05 PM

I underwent Botox injections for chronic migraines a year ago and sufferd severe botox poisnoing, 

 

I have improved somewhat but am left with muscle weakness, autonomic dysfunction, tinitus and very saggy dry skin.

 

I am hoping to try the mito protocol to try and reverse some of the damage, I am already doing red light therapy and about to start HBOT.

 

Would the HBOT and red light therapy be ok to combine with the mito protocol?

 

I also have to take CDP choline and low dose (25mcg) of huperzine A as my acethylcholine levels were destroyed by the toxin.

Would those supplements be ok to take while on the protocol?



#2169 Kelvin

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Posted 19 March 2023 - 05:49 PM

If you are taking CDP choline and huperzine for neurotransmitter issues then you should -

1) Not take them at the same time as the mito protocol.

2) Not use any AKG during the mito protocol since an excess of AKG can overproduce glutamate.


The mito protocol will still work without AKG since the core components are fission and NAD+ triggered by Nicotinamide and biogenesis from PQQ.

It just may take a bit longer to restore your mitochondria without AKG, but overall it would still work the same.
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#2170 cap3

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Posted 19 March 2023 - 06:03 PM

So I would just take this stack continually until I felt the benefits based on weight lifting reps? No days off?

 

Mito1 (fission)

● NAM+R, 1 g of each

● PQQ, 20 mg

 

Mito2 (fusion)

● GMS, 1 g, and/or DHM, 2 g

● PQQ, 20 mg

 

What would be the downside of taking CDP choline as well? 

 

Also why do I need to remove the AKG? I understand its due to increased glutamate but are you saying that I already have too much glutamate due to the poisoning?

 

 

 

 



#2171 Kelvin

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Posted 19 March 2023 - 07:42 PM

I would VERY STRONGLY recommend including DHM for fusion (and make the GMS optional) since it crosses the blood brain barrier and will be needed to fuse back your neural mitochondria after the fission days. Otherwise, without DHM, you will end up with overly fissioned brain mitochondria.

You can take the protocol continuously or you can take periodic breaks after several rounds, or so

I wouldn’t include CDP choline just because you don’t know if there might be some interaction that would interfere with the fission/fusion process.

If your problem is an imbalance of neurotransmitters then it is possible you would react negatively to extra glutamate from AKG since changing one neurotransmitter tends to result in a change in other neurotransmitters.

So I would stay away in your case as a precaution.

Besides there is a possibility that your neurotransmitter imbalance is due to mitochondrial dysfunction, and mitochondrial dysfunction is often a major cause, or major contributing factor, of central nervous system dysfunctions in general.

So by using the protocol (without AKG) you might restore your neurotransmitter imbalance simply by improving your mitochondria

Edited by Kelvin, 19 March 2023 - 07:43 PM.

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#2172 cap3

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Posted 19 March 2023 - 08:33 PM

Thanks Kelvin,

 

I tend to get quite depressed after taking NMN after just a few days, im guessing lack of methyl donors?

 

So I just add in TMG when I feel the depression/lack of energy?

 

Is there a basic Stem cell protocol to follow after the Mito protocol? Perhaps that would be a good time to add in the HBOT?



#2173 Kelvin

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Posted 19 March 2023 - 11:43 PM

Go ahead with TMG whenever you feel tired.

I don’t know anything about HBOT.

I recommend keeping any HBOT timed separately from both the mito and C60 protocols.
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#2174 smithx

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 04:11 AM

I missed it. DHM is Dihydromyricetin? How does it figure in this protocol?

 

 



#2175 cap3

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Posted 03 April 2023 - 04:25 PM

A few days ago I took 750mg Niacinamide, 1g D-Ribose and 20mg PQQ. That day I had a very bad headache and didnt sleep well that night. 

 

I monitor my recovery and HRV with a Whoop strap. The following morning I had a bad recovery and lower than usual HRV, in the red in fact.

 

That day I took the DHM and PQQ. Slept well that night and woke up with normal recovery and HRV. Also felt alot better.

 

I am trying to heal some dysautonomia with this protocol and also want to take some peptides (BPC157 and TB4) is it ok to combine them with the other supplements?


A few days ago I took 750mg Niacinamide, 1g D-Ribose and 20mg PQQ. That day I had a very bad headache and didnt sleep well that night. 

 

I monitor my recovery and HRV with a Whoop strap. The following morning I had a bad recovery and lower than usual HRV, in the red in fact.

 

That day I took the DHM and PQQ. Slept well that night and woke up with normal recovery and HRV. Also felt alot better.

 

I am trying to heal some dysautonomia with this protocol and also want to take some peptides (BPC157 and TB4) is it ok to combine them with the other supplements?



#2176 Kelvin

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Posted 04 April 2023 - 04:36 AM

Don’t combine anything with the protocol. If you want to take peptides then do so off cycle.

Edited by Kelvin, 04 April 2023 - 04:36 AM.

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#2177 cap3

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Posted 04 April 2023 - 05:31 AM

How long would a normal cycle last?

 

I feel pretty rough on day 1 is it ok to just do it at weekends? 

 

Could I do for example

 

Day 1 Saturday

Day 2 Sunday

 

Peptides Mon-Fri


How long would a normal cycle last?

 

I feel pretty rough on day 1 is it ok to just do it at weekends? 

 

Could I do for example

 

Day 1 Saturday

Day 2 Sunday

 

Peptides Mon-Fri



#2178 cap3

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Posted 04 April 2023 - 05:27 PM

Also Kelvin can i ask what results you have had with the protocol?



#2179 Kelvin

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Posted 05 April 2023 - 04:23 AM

One cycle takes 2 days and you could do a cycle continuously if you want or you could do just one cycle a week.

You can do the peptides Monday to Friday if you want.

#2180 Repack Racing

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Posted 06 July 2023 - 07:18 PM

Hello Community,

 

It has been a while since I last posted and I have some results to share.  I have been very active in my anti-aging protocols and on this topic, as well as the C60 thread.

 

I even embarked on an intense protocol I developed here: https://www.longecit...-72#entry919914

 

This was developed based on a lot of research and some desperation based on my unfortunate peptide experience here: https://www.longecit...-71#entry918069 and here: https://www.longecit...-71#entry919159

 

With latest age results here (note that when I was 48, my epigenic age was 44): https://www.longecit...-71#entry919157

 

After following the mito protocol in several variations and my own protocol above for 3 years, I noticed no change what-so-ever in terms of anti-aging or recovery from the peptide issue that lead me here.  I began to think about how I originally got to an epigentic age that was 4 years younger than my bio age.  That OBVIOUSLY was working.

 

I achieved those results using this basic protocol (some supps added off and on):

 

Daily:

 

High-dose multi-vitamin

500 mg NMN

1 ml C60 in OO (brands varied)

 

Since I wasn't seeing any benefits from the mito protocols, or my own, I decided to go back to basics.  6 weeks ago I dropped everything and started this daily protocol:

 

1 gram NMN (ProHealth)

1 ml C60 (SES fine grade)

Zinc + Magnesium + D3 (Nutri Champs - 3 pills) - this is mainly for sleep benefits

400 mg Green tea extract

500mcg BPC-157 (Nutrizole Labs)

Omega 3

1,200 mg NAC - also mainly for sleep benefits

Athletic greens (sometimes 2x - this replaces the multivitamin)

 

That's all!

 

Since I started this protocol the bags under my eyes are almost completely gone.  My athletic performance/recover has improved and I feel a lot better.  Plus it is less expensive :)

 

I have yet to perform an age test, so this is my personal experience about how I look and feel.

 

I want to be clear that I am not saying the mito protocol doesn't work.  Maybe all of those years had a benefit that I am just now seeing.  Maybe taking a break from it has its own benefits.  I was also certainly doing it too often and too many supplements and it may have impacted the effectiveness.  Clearly, results are being achieved by following it.

 

At any rate, this back to basics protocol seems to be doing wonders and I wanted to share my results.  I will post my next age tests when I get the results.



#2181 Turnbuckle

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Posted 06 July 2023 - 07:49 PM

 

After following the mito protocol in several variations and my own protocol above for 3 years, I noticed no change what-so-ever in terms of anti-aging or recovery from the peptide issue that lead me here.  I began to think about how I originally got to an epigentic age that was 4 years younger than my bio age.  That OBVIOUSLY was working.

 

 

 

I wouldn't expect that this mito protocol would have any effect on epigenetic age. The mito protocol gets rid of poorly performing mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA), while epigenetic age is determined only by nuclear DNA (nDNA), and to lower that, you have to get rid of old cells and replace them with new cells derived from stem cells. If you lengthen your telomeres with a telomerase promoter, as you evidently did, that will rescue old cells, but they will continue to get epigenetically older. All is not lost in this case, but it will take time for cells to telomerically age out again once you stop with the telomerase promoter. Only then can they be replaced and epigenetic age begin to fall. If you use C60 with a fission promoter (or without anything), you will create new cells, but eventually this will lead to depletion. This is where fusion + C60 is important, as that is how you replenish SC niches.


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#2182 Repack Racing

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Posted 06 July 2023 - 09:59 PM

First of all, welcome back  - glad to see it!  I will consider your comments,  I should have mentioned that I continue to do the c60 + fusion every 2 weeks for that very reason.  However, I was not doing that from age 45-48 and only saw what I perceived as positive benefits.  What are you thoughts on the time-frame for depleting cells with C60 and no fusion?

 

 



#2183 EliotH

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Posted 06 July 2023 - 10:52 PM

Welcome back Turnbuckle.

 

I ran across an article that state mitochondria normally go through 5 fusion/fission cycles per hour. How would these protocols affect that? If the half life of GMS is 17 hours (or was it 14?) would that force mitos out of that cycle for too long? What about the other fusion/fission promoters? The article also makes the claim that fusion triggers fission, so maybe fission promoters are not necessary.

 

https://www.scienced...005272808001436

 

Abstract

 

The mitochondrial life cycle consists of frequent fusion and fission events. Ample experimental and clinical data demonstrate that inhibition of either fusion or fission results in deterioration of mitochondrial bioenergetics. While fusion may benefit mitochondrial function by allowing the spreading of metabolites, protein and DNA throughout the network, the functional benefit of fission is not as intuitive. Remarkably, studies that track individual mitochondria through fusion and fission found that the two events are paired and that fusion triggers fission. On average each mitochondrion would go though ~ 5 fusion:fission cycles every hour. Measurement of Δψm during single fusion and fission events demonstrates that fission may yield uneven daughter mitochondria where the depolarized daughter is less likely to become involved in a subsequent fusion and is more likely to be targeted by autophagy. Based on these observations we propose a mechanism by which the integration of mitochondrial fusion, fission and autophagy forms a quality maintenance mechanism. According to this hypothesis pairs of fusion and fission allow for the reorganization and sequestration of damaged mitochondrial components into daughter mitochondria that are segregated from the networking pool and then becoming eliminated by autophagy.

 


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#2184 stephen_b

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Posted 09 July 2023 - 04:45 AM

GMS is prepared by combining glycerol stearic acid (I don't know the exact specifics). Reference.

 

The increase in blood pressure with GMS seems to be due to the glycerol part. Stearic acid itself seems to lower blood pressure.

 

I've heard the argument that GMS is fast acting, but maybe it's just the glycerol part? I don't know that it would result in a spike of stearic acid greater than magnesium stearate, for example.

 

I gave magnesium stearate a trial in place of GMS. The side effect profile was much better, I found, with no blood pressure bump and none of the acid reflux I get with GMS. It seemed a bit more soluble in warm water than GMS. It remains to be seen how using magnesium stearate in place of GMS might change the outcome of this protocol.


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#2185 gamesguru

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Posted 12 July 2023 - 12:41 PM

If the fusion-fission cycle is on the order of minutes, does daily cycling make sense?

 

Should this be titled "manipulating" or "enhancing" mitochondrial dynamics?

 

I came across two other supplements that promote fusion or mitophagy. Lithium and Royal Jelly.

 

I have been rounding my nights out with a quarter eyedropper of ionic Lithium (125 microgram). I do that probably 2-5 nights a week. It has a mild anti-dopamine / anti-glutamate and sedating effect, and blunts creativity at larger doses. But larger doses will deplete mitochondrial populations and should be avoided if possible. Here's a visual guide to Lithium's mechanisms. It's important to note the extra activity can have deleterious effects in the absence of adequate Magnesium[1] and dietary protein (CoQ10 is synthesized from Phenylalanine—with a second step involving the acetyl-CoA pathway, which can be augmented with occasional ALCAR)[2].

 

 

Effects of Lithium on Age-related Decline in Mitochondrial Turnover and Function in Caenorhabditis elegans
07 January 2014
https://doi.org/10.1093/gerona/glt210

Aging has been associated with the accumulation of damages in molecules and organelles in cells, particularly mitochondria. The rate of damage accumulation is closely tied to the turnover of the affected cellular components. Perturbing mitochondrial turnover has been shown to significantly affect the rate of deterioration of mitochondrial function with age and to alter lifespan of model organisms. In this study, we investigated the effects of upregulating autophagy using lithium in Caenorhabditis elegans. We found that lithium treatment increased both the lifespan and healthspan of C.elegans without any significant change in the mortality rate and oxidative damages to proteins. The increase in healthspan was accompanied by improved mitochondrial energetic function. In contrast, mitochondrial DNA copy number decreased faster with age under lithium. To better understand the interactions among mitochondrial turnover, damage, and function, we created a mathematical model that described the dynamics of functional and dysfunctional mitochondria population. The combined analysis of model and experimental observations showed how preferential (selective) autophagy of dysfunctional mitochondria could lead to better mitochondrial functionality with age, despite a lower population size. However, the results of model analysis suggest that the benefit of increasing autophagy for mitochondrial function is expected to diminish at higher levels of upregulation due to a shrinking mitochondrial population.



Lithium-induced enhancement of mitochondrial oxidative phosphorylation in human brain tissue
10 July 2009
https://doi.org/10.1...18.2009.00729.x

Methods: We spectrophotometrically determined the activities of [different enzymes] in postmortem human brain cortex homogenates following exposure to lithium (up to 10 mM).

Results: Activities of complexes I + III and of complexes II + III were dose-dependently increased by lithium with maximum values at 1 mM (165%, p = 0.03, and 146%, p = 0.00002, of controls). Activity of succinate dehydrogenase remained unchanged up to 2 mM, but was raised at higher drug concentrations (maximum 220%, p = 0.01, of controls). In contrast, activity of COX was not significantly affected by the drug (decrease of 12% at 1 mM, p = 0.4).

Conclusions: Our study suggests that lithium stimulates mitochondrial respiratory chain enzyme activities at clinically relevant concentrations. Lithium’s effect on the mitochondrial respiratory chain presents further evidence of the pathophysiological significance of mitochondrial dysfunction in bipolar disorder. The effect may be relevant to the therapeutic efficacy of the drug by potentially reversing a disease-related alteration.

 

 

Also, Royal Jelly. Good for mitochondrial fusion (see study below). Moderate fusion is good imo, it's like a mitochondrial senolytic[2].

 

I like this mitochondrial protocol. I haven't tried the DHM yet, but I did order it.

 

The butterfly feeling of this stack in the stomach gives way to a deeply energetic stimulation reminiscent of Royal Jelly.

 

I rarely take royal jelly because of a "jittery" feeling for me, but it's certainly interesting. The effects are somewhat inconsistent[8].

 

It has a marked anti-fatigue effect[6][7]. Besides Naringin, Royal Jelly is one of the only natural compounds to boost GDNF. It also has SIRT1, p16, p21, stem cell promoting and senolytic activity[4][3][5]. Not quite as many mechanisms as Resveratrol, but still deserving of more investigation than it gets. Many redditors are applying it to their faces, and indeed this study examines effects in skin cells.

 

 

Royal Jelly encapsulation in a combinatorial system consisting of liposomes and cyclodextrins – skin functionality and controlled release
https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/35893731/

 

Royal jelly is a white viscous substance with a gel texture secreted by the hypopharyngeal glands of young workers bees. Owing to its excellent biological properties, royal jelly is widely used in the food, supplement, and cosmetics industry. Numerous studies have shown anti-aging, anti-inflammatory, antimicrobial, anticancer and antidiabetic [and anti-fatigue] properties. Royal jelly exhibits physicochemical instability depending on time and storage temperature. Ideal storage temperature of royal jelly is -20 ο C while higher temperatures cause color change and component degradation [1].

In the present work fresh Greek royal jelly was incorporated in a combinatorial system consisting of liposomes and beta-hydroxypropyl cyclodextrins, achieving 95% encapsulation efficiency, referring to 10-hydroxydecenoic acid (10-HDA). The system was proven to be physicochemically and microbiologically stable during a 6-month period, while it preserves the biofunctionality of royal jelly – as depicted by the stable levels of 10-HDA. The system releases 10-HDA in a time-controlled manner, while it was shown to exhibit significant skin bioactivity: it induces miRNA 129 expression in skin fibroblasts, a gene that has a main function the protection of fibroblasts from aging process. Furthermore, the system Increases cell proliferation and cell viability in human fibroblasts and promotes mitochondrial fusion which is related to the increase of cellular metabolism and energy production. The above results show promise for the use of the system in dermal applications, having the benefits of controlled release and of storage at room temperature.

 

 

References

 

[1] Pilchova, I., Klacanova, K., Tatarkova, Z., Kaplan, P., & Racay, P. (2017). The Involvement of Mg2+ in Regulation of Cellular and Mitochondrial Functions. Oxidative medicine and cellular longevity, 2017, 6797460. https://doi.org/10.1155/2017/6797460

 

[2] Chaudhari, S.N., Kipreos, E.T. Increased mitochondrial fusion allows the survival of older animals in diverse C. elegans longevity pathways. Nat Commun 8, 182 (2017). https://doi.org/10.1...467-017-00274-4

 

[3] Mariko Moriyama, Yuko Miyake, Tomomi Degawa et al. Royal jelly maintains epidermal stem cell properties by repressing senescence, 28 September 2022, PREPRINT (Version 1) available at Research Square [https://doi.org/10.2....rs-2098858/v1]

 

[4] Nguyen, T. T., Kambe, Y., & Miyata, A. (2021). Chronic Royal Jelly Administration Induced Antidepressant-Like Effects Through Increased Sirtuin1 and Oxidative Phosphorylation Protein Expression in the Amygdala of Mice. Current molecular pharmacology, 14(2), 115–122. https://doi.org/10.2...666200424160153

 

[5] "10-HDA Induces ROS-Mediated Apoptosis in A549 Human Lung Cancer Cells by Regulating the MAPK, STAT3, NF-κB, and TGF-β1 Signaling Pathways", BioMed Research International, vol. 2020, Article ID 3042636, 15 pages, 2020. https://doi.org/10.1155/2020/3042636

 

[6] 10-Hydroxydec-2-Enoic Acid Reduces Hydroxyl Free Radical-Induced Damage to Vascular Smooth Muscle Cells by Rescuing Protein and Energy Metabolism. Frontiers in nutrition, 9, 873892. https://doi.org/10.3...nut.2022.873892

 

[7] Kamakura, M., Mitani, N., Fukuda, T., & Fukushima, M. (2001). Antifatigue effect of fresh royal jelly in mice. Journal of nutritional science and vitaminology, 47(6), 394–401. https://doi.org/10.3177/jnsv.47.394

 

[8] Takahashi, Y., Hijikata, K., Seike, K., Nakano, S., Banjo, M., Sato, Y., Takahashi, K., & Hatta, H. (2018). Effects of Royal Jelly Administration on Endurance Training-Induced Mitochondrial Adaptations in Skeletal Muscle. Nutrients, 10(11), 1735. https://doi.org/10.3390/nu10111735


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#2186 gamesguru

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Posted 13 July 2023 - 01:38 PM

Inhaled low to medium dose CBD may be an effective short-acting fusion agent[5][6].

 

Larger, sustained doses disrupt mitochondrial networks[1] and result in excessive neural inhibition (though this is also due to receptor binding directly, not just the secondary messenger systems).

 

Endocannabinoids play a role in fusion-fission cycles, biogenesis and mitophagy, as well as mobility (transport and anchoring). They do this apparently through the mtCB1R, VDAC1 and TRPV4 receptors[2][3], by modulating respiration, apoptosis through Cytochrome C, and calcium homeostasis.

 

This is relevant because CBD inhibits FAAH, which increases anandamide and 2-AG [4]. But I think the receptor binding effects (of CBD to CB1) are often dominant.

 

CBD may also have anti-cancer and senolytic activity, which appears in part to be modulated by mitophagy of unneeded mitochondria[3].

 

(this quote is from reference 2)

 

In recent years, accumulating findings have evidenced that cannabinoids, a group of endogenous and exogenous (synthetic and plant-derived) psychoactive compounds that bind to cannabinoid receptors, may modulate mitochondrial function and dynamics. As such, mitochondria have gained increasing interest as central mediators in cannabinoids' pharmacological and toxicological signatures. Here, we review the mechanisms underlying the cannabinoids' modulation of mitochondrial activity and dynamics, as well as the potential implications of such mitochondrial processes' disruption on cell homeostasis and disease. Interestingly, cannabinoids may target different mitochondrial processes (e.g., regulation of intracellular calcium levels, bioenergetic metabolism, apoptosis, and mitochondrial dynamics, including mitochondrial fission and fusion, transport, mitophagy, and biogenesis), by modulating multiple and complex signaling pathways.

 

At a steady state, fusion and fission processes need to be balanced to maintain a functional mitochondrial population [142], [143]. Cannabinoids seem to disrupt this equilibrium via the modulation of CB1R, thus contributing to changes in the mitochondrial morphology and function [16], [52], [56], [106], [131], [142], [143]. For example, Drori et al. (2019) reported that the intraperitoneal administration of AEA or ACEA (10 mg/kg, i.p.) to mice resulted in excessive mitochondrial fragmentation in the kidneys, as evidenced by the increased mitochondrial circularity and decreased perimeter and interconnectivity in micrographs of kidney sections [16]. Interestingly, this effect was not observed in mice lacking CB1R, suggesting that this receptor activation plays an important role in these morphological alterations. Similar findings were also documented in vitro, in HK-2 cells treated with 5 μM AEA or ACEA, as well as in the presence of JZL195, an inhibitor of fatty acid amide hydrolase (FAAH) and monoacylglycerol lipase (MAGL), the enzymes responsible for the degradation of AEA and 2–AG, respectively. Moreover, a significant reduction of the phosphorylation at the S637 residue of the mitochondria fission marker DRP1 was observed following in vitro exposure to CB1R agonists, indicating that the cannabinoid-induced mitochondrial abnormal morphology may be mediated, at least partly, by post‐translational modifications of this protein[16]. This low phosphorylation may be the result of reduced activity of PKA, whose activity is inhibited after CB1R stimulation. In fact, cell exposure to H‐89 (a PKA inhibitor) also induced mitochondrial fragmentation and reduced DRP1 phosphorylation, suggesting that PKA inhibition occurs downstream of CB1R activation and upstream of DRP1 dephosphorylation in this cascade [16]. In addition, PKA also inhibits ERK1/2, which has been shown to phosphorylate DRP1 and further promote mitochondrial fission [144], [145].

 

 

We can also look at a study with THC showing excessive fission events and network disruption, which again supports the idea that CBD can be used advantageously (CBD being the near pharmacological opposite of THC).

 

Delta‐9‐tetrahydrocannabinol disrupts mitochondrial function and attenuates syncytialization in human placental BeWo cells
2020
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC7336740/

THC disrupted mitochondrial function, increased markers of mitochondrial fission and cellular stress in BeWo cells. This was coincident with reduced BeWo cell fusion and secretion of important fetal growth signals, hPL and IGF2. These changes were mediated, in part, via the CB1 receptor in syncytialized BeWo cells.

 

References

 

[1] Gross, C., Ramirez, D. A., McGrath, S., & Gustafson, D. L. (2021). Cannabidiol Induces Apoptosis and Perturbs Mitochondrial Function in Human and Canine Glioma Cells. Frontiers in pharmacology, 12, 725136. https://doi.org/10.3...har.2021.725136

 

[2] Malheiro, R. F., Carmo, H., Carvalho, F., & Silva, J. P. (2023). Cannabinoid-mediated targeting of mitochondria on the modulation of mitochondrial function and dynamics. Pharmacological research, 187, 106603. https://doi.org/10.1...hrs.2022.106603

 

[3] Huang, T., Xu, T., Wang, Y., Zhou, Y., Yu, D., Wang, Z., He, L., Chen, Z., Zhang, Y., Davidson, D., Dai, Y., Hang, C., Liu, X., & Yan, C. (2021). Cannabidiol inhibits human glioma by induction of lethal mitophagy through activating TRPV4. Autophagy, 17(11), 3592–3606. https://doi.org/10.1...27.2021.1885203

 

[4] Leweke, F., Piomelli, D., Pahlisch, F. et al. Cannabidiol enhances anandamide signaling and alleviates psychotic symptoms of schizophrenia. Transl Psychiatry 2, e94 (2012). https://doi.org/10.1038/tp.2012.15

 

[5] Chan, J. Z., & Duncan, R. E. (2021). Regulatory Effects of Cannabidiol on Mitochondrial Functions: A Review. Cells, 10(5), 1251. https://doi.org/10.3390/cells10051251

 

[6] da Silva, V. K., de Freitas, B. S., da Silva Dornelles, A., Nery, L. R., Falavigna, L., Ferreira, R. D., Bogo, M. R., Hallak, J. E., Zuardi, A. W., Crippa, J. A., & Schröder, N. (2014). Cannabidiol normalizes caspase 3, synaptophysin, and mitochondrial fission protein DNM1L expression levels in rats with brain iron overload: implications for neuroprotection. Molecular neurobiology, 49(1), 222–233. https://doi.org/10.1...2035-013-8514-7


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#2187 Helios

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Posted 16 July 2023 - 08:37 AM

I take a few supplements for sleep.

 

Glycine, L-theanin, Magnesium and L-arginine.

 

Can i continue taking some or all of these?

 

Have some other i could try instead such as cbd-oil and melatonin spray. would either of these work?



#2188 Helios

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Posted 16 July 2023 - 10:16 AM

Whats your experience with this protocol? what benefits have you seen? how does it compare with the original TB protocol?

 

Does the standard protocol not affect the mitochondria in the brain in your estimate? Do you think there is a big difference between the original protocol and your new one?

 

 

Here is my mito fission/fusion protocol -
 
Fission
 
 
750 mgs NMN
300 mgs NRcl (Nicotinamide Riboside Chloride)
1.2 grams AKG
20 mgs PQQ
 
 
Fusion 
 
1 gram Sunflower Lecithin (To prevent rise in blood pressure)
2 grams Dihydromyricetin
50 mgs Sulforaphane
1.2 grams AKG 
20 mgs PQQ
 
 
Every 3 to 4 mitochondrial cycles I take -
 
3 grams of TMG.  TMG replenishes methyl stores.
 
3 grams Arginine.  Arginine provides fuel to newly enhanced mitochondria.
 
300 mgs Ubiquinol.  Ubiquinol feeds healthy mitochondria.
 
200 mgs R-Alpha Lipoic Acid.  R-ALA provides additional fuel to mitochondria and helps clean up free radicals that may have been created from destroying damaged mitochondria.

 

 



#2189 Repack Racing

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Posted 11 August 2023 - 01:32 PM

I take a few supplements for sleep.

 

Glycine, L-theanin, Magnesium and L-arginine.

 

Can i continue taking some or all of these?

 

Have some other i could try instead such as cbd-oil and melatonin spray. would either of these work?

 

Helios,

 

I don't think there would be any issue with continuing those supplements.  Some amino acids can stop fusion, so I would space it out by taking these several hours before or after the protocol stack.
 



#2190 Meggo

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Posted 28 August 2023 - 05:10 AM

How long before training is the ideal time to take the supplements with the new protocol?







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