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Why are my SSRI and MAOI effects not lasting?

moclobemid st johns wort neurotransmitter neurotransmitters dopamin serotonin

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#1 GreenWhite

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 12:58 PM


Hey,

 

I got good effects from St. John's Wort and also from Moclobemid, but i only lasts for a couple days. After that i takes me like 2 Weeks to get the same effects again but they are still lasting for only 3 or 4 days.

 

It seems my brain is noticing that there are more neurotransmitters and thinks that this is wrong and stops releasing new Neurotransmitter until i'm back to my depressed state.

 

Does anyone have similar experiences or know what is killing my Neurotransmitters?



#2 jack black

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 01:48 AM

It's called homeostasis. Welcome to the club.
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#3 GreenWhite

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 05:37 AM

It's called homeostasis. Welcome to the club.

 

Do u expierence the same cycle where your drugs work - don't work - work - don't work - work... etc.?



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#4 Dichotohmy

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 09:45 PM

Are SJW and moclobemide the only antidepressant supplement/drug you've tried? Have you tried taking an antidepressant for for a full 2-3 month trial to determine whether you benefit from whatever mysterious combination of neurogenesis, receptor downregulation, neurosteroid alteration, or endocrine-system changes that are theorized to occur with anti-depressant drugs, but which are theorized to only occur to a significant degree over time?

 

I also only experience the desirable effects of antidepressants in the start-up phase, I get worse and worse on the drugs past 10 days or so and they don't "kick in" after 2-3 months for me, and I have a neurobabble hypothesis as to why: those who don't have things like an atrophied  hippocampus, upregulated monoamine receptors or transporters, or hypercortisolemia, won't get any benefits from antidepressants beyond the initial and temporary disruption in neurotransmitter homeostasis. If your monoamines receptors or transporters are already downregulated for whatever unique genetic or epigenetic reason, you will probably get some desirable effects from increased monoamine release or transporter blockade in the short term, but homeostasis or baseline will inevitably happen and the pre-existing problem only get worse as the brain downregulates receptors and upregulates transporters in response.

 

SSRIs, ADHD meds, venlafaxine, buproprion, selegiline at purported MAO-A inhibitory doses, 5-HTP and SJW all have desirable start up effects but just leave me worse off than baseline with extended use. I say "neurobabble" here because these ideas are not specifically proven at this time, and not provable because its not possible to measure neurotransmitters accurately in a living human. There hasn't been much research into how people with already high or downregulated neurotransmitter systems react to antidepressants because how do you even prove that inclusion criteria?

 

 


Edited by Dichotohmy, 16 August 2017 - 09:50 PM.


#5 BlueCloud

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Posted 09 September 2017 - 12:39 PM

The simplest way to deal with homeostasis is still to cycle your supplement/meds. Take regular short breaks. You'll need to experiment to find what works for you. With escitalopram for example, i used to do 3 days on , 1 day off. That kept it working for a long time.

Edited by BlueCloud, 09 September 2017 - 12:39 PM.


#6 hatschiman

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 01:04 PM

The simplest way to deal with homeostasis is still to cycle your supplement/meds. Take regular short breaks. You'll need to experiment to find what works for you. With escitalopram for example, i used to do 3 days on , 1 day off. That kept it working for a long time.

 

Escitalopram has quite a long half life, like 30 hours. So even with one day off, yout will still have nearly a steady-state blood concentration with chronic administration.

This might have worked for you, but it wont let your brain reach uninfluenced homeostasis to prevent adaption to the effects of the drug.



#7 BlueCloud

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 01:32 PM

 

The simplest way to deal with homeostasis is still to cycle your supplement/meds. Take regular short breaks. You'll need to experiment to find what works for you. With escitalopram for example, i used to do 3 days on , 1 day off. That kept it working for a long time.

 

Escitalopram has quite a long half life, like 30 hours. So even with one day off, yout will still have nearly a steady-state blood concentration with chronic administration.

This might have worked for you, but it wont let your brain reach uninfluenced homeostasis to prevent adaption to the effects of the drug.

 

 

I'm a quick metabolizer in general, so yes I might tend to excrete substances a bit faster than most people. For others 2 days might be the minimum before they start coming back towards baseline with escitalopram. One has to experiment and adjust according to their own metabolism.

 

However, one needs to be careful with the idea of half-life in a psychotropic substance. All that the half-life indicates is how long the substance stays in your blood. However, that doesn't necessarily correlates 1-to-1 to the duration that it will be acting in your brain. Something can have a half-life of 3 hours, and yet its antagonizing effect of a set of receptors can keep going on for a much longer duration than 3 hours before going back to baseline.

 

One notorious substance at that is the antihistaminic cyproheptadine ( often used in insomnia), that almost invariably surprises people that read about its half-life of 4 hours, and expect to it to be short acting and probably not even get them through the night unlike doxylamine or diphenhydramine, and then are shocked when they see that its effect can last up to 24 hours before really lifting up. It's actually the longest acting of all sleep-inducing antihistaminics.


Edited by BlueCloud, 10 September 2017 - 01:37 PM.


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#8 CWF1986

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 01:32 AM

You listed St. Johln's Wort which mostly will only work for minor depression on it's own.  The reversible MAOi you listed is known in clinical settings to be one of the less effective antidepressants available even compared to the SSRI's.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: moclobemid, st johns wort, neurotransmitter, neurotransmitters, dopamin, serotonin

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