13 replies to this topic

[jango]

hello

I'd like to know if there are some people dealing with a similar situation. I suffer a trapecious pain since 20 years ago due to a severe muscle contraction. Im sick of trying different pills, doctors are very lost with my case.

I need some medication that could take for a long time. The only things that improve my state are: ibuprophen and Diazepam. But I think I can't take it every day.

I've tried some SSRI for many years, because doctors always relate chroinc pain to depression. The results are a little improvement but this not worth it because of the sideffects (loss of libido)

 

There is a very strong muscle contraction in my trapecious impossible to remove. After 20 years I've tried all therapies in the world with no success. Actually a massage worsens the pain.  I need to relax the muscle

 

I was thinking to try TIANEPTINE, because I read that has a relaxation effect, but recently I found some reports about the tolerance and withdrawal effect. Also I have read that can cause  constipation and hair loss :-(

 

The other medicine I have in mind is TRAMADOL But some reviews here in this forums are scary. It seems like you become a drug-addict....Is there anyone having Tramadol during a long time??

 

Maybe I should be more brave and have DIAZEPAM and ibuprophen every day.... but Im afraid about the tolerance and cognitive long-term effects

 Nowadays Im having a crisis and Im desperated and depressed. The muscle inflammation make me feel dizzy and I dont feel like doing anything

 

All advices will be appreciated, here or by pm. Also if you had a bad experience with the medication I mentioned, l want to know.

 

 

 

 

[gamesguru]

could be herpetic neuralgia, in which case exercise, diet, adaptogens/avoidance of stress, iNOS inhibitors may help.

cyclobenzaprine, but it's not a real good choice.

 

SKELETAL MUSCLE RELAXANT ACTIVITY OF CHLOROFORM EXTRACT OF PHYLLOSTACHYS BAMBUSOIDES ON WISTAR RATS

Antinocicetive and Skeletal Muscle Relaxant Properties of Ethanol Seed Extract of Senna occidentalis Linn. (Fabaceae) in Wistar Rats

Evaluation of skeletal muscle relaxant activity of aqueous extract of Nerium oleander flowers in Albino rats
Antidepressant and skeletal muscle relaxant effects of the aqueous extract of the Prosopis cineraria

-----

Pre-treatment with Magnesium sulphate before non depolarizing muscle relaxants: Effect on speed on onset, induction and recovery
Background: Magnesium sulphate is used during anaesthesia for its antihypertensive/ antiarrhythmic properties and attenuating the response to endotrachial intubation and as an anticonvulsant for women with eclampsia. At the motor nerve terminal, MgSO4 inhibits acetylcholine release. Thus, it enhances the effect of neuromuscular blocking agents.
Aims & Objectives: To determine the effect of magnesium sulphate pre-treatment on the onset, duration and recovery of non-depolarizing muscle relaxant and to quantify the haemodynamic effects of administration of MgSO4 on the arterial blood pressure.
Materials and Methods: One year old prospective, randomized, double blinded, controlled clinical study was conducted on randomly selected 45 patients of either sex, aged between 18-55 years, of grade I or II of American Society of Anaesthesiologists, undergoing elective surgery at a Medical College of eastern Uttar Pradesh. Patients were divided into three groups according to the doses of MgSO4 used for pre-treatment. Statistical evaluation was done by using student’s ‘t’ test for paired data.
Results: The Mean Arterial Blood Pressure response to laryngoscopy, tracheal intubation, was almost abolished in Group A (p<0.05) followed by Group B (p<0.05) and maximum pressure response occurred in Group C where MgSO4 was not used (p<0.05). The speed of onset of neuromuscular block was accelerated by pre-treatment with MgSO4 before non-depolarizing muscle relaxants. The mean onset time was 144.3 ± 12.08 seconds (p<0.001) in Group A, 192.66 ± 19.81 second (p<0.001) in Group B and 286.33 ± 34.20 seconds in Group C. The clinical duration was prolonged in MgSO4 group as compared with control group. Mean value was 52.4 ± 8.97 minutes (p<0.001), 44.86 ± 6.59 minutes (p<0.01), and 34.2±8.05 minutes respectively in Group A, B and C. Pre-treatment with MgSO4 before non-depolarizing muscle relaxant, accelerated speed of onset of neuromuscular block, necessary for intubation of trachea. MgSO4, in the presence of non-depolarizing muscle relaxant, intensified and prolonged the neuromuscular blockade and recovery.
Conclusion: Monitoring of neuromuscular function and reduction in dose of vecuronium are required when using these two drugs in combination.

Edited by gamesguru, 23 September 2015 - 05:41 PM.

[zorba990]

Assume you have tried self release with trigger point, foam rolling, tennis balls etc?
Potassium, sodium, magnesium?
High rep, super slow resistance training?
Magnesium threonate pre workout helped me considerably.

[Daniel Cooper]

Botox injected into the hypertonic muscle at 3 to 6 month intervals is frequently used to address problems like what you describe.

 

 

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 23 September 2015 - 06:45 PM.

[jango]

thanks for your answers

 

I dont know how to do self release with trigger points.  Im afraid to do it badly and worsen.., I could try but I have to be sure.  Massages didnt work, so I thought if I do it by myself it could be harmful...

 

what is threonate?? I tried magnesium as a supplement (sorry Im not english speaker)

potassium and sodium...I havent tried as a supplement....I havent heard that sodium could work for relaxing muscles...For potassium I eat a lot of bananas.

 

I already tried Botox, for 2 times with no success.

 

Edited by jango, 23 September 2015 - 06:54 PM.

[zorba990]

just Google foam rolling and rrigger pointing, and myofascial release. It does kick up inflammation so be prepared for that. Not all inflammation is bad. Hot epsom salt baths can help as well as the usual omega 3s, anti oxidants, etc.

[Area-1255]

I do not recommend getting near benzodiazepines or SSRI's OP - they are both associated with long-term negative changes in neural systems and physiological adaptation issues. Benzo's are addictive and hard to get off of - withdrawal is scary high and totally uncomfortable!

Restoril may be the only benzo with a relatively low addiction rate and not super bad withdrawal effects; it's mostly prescribed for Insomnia, though.

Your best bet may be using positive allosteric modulators coupled with GABA-T inhibitors. 

In other words; Lemon Balm extract plus Magnolia officinalis. 

 

Phytother Res. 2009 Aug;23(8):1075-81. doi: 10.1002/ptr.2712.

Bioassay-guided fractionation of lemon balm (Melissa officinalis L.) using an in vitro measure of GABA transaminase activity.

Awad R1, Muhammad A, Durst T, Trudeau VL, Arnason JT.

Author information

 

Abstract

A novel pharmacological mechanism of action for the anxiolytic botanical Melissa officinalis L. (lemon balm) is reported. The methanol extract was identified as a potent in vitro inhibitor of rat brain GABA transaminase (GABA-T), an enzyme target in the therapy of anxiety, epilepsy and related neurological disorders. Bioassay-guided fractionation led to the identification and isolation of rosmarinic acid (RA) and the triterpenoids, ursolic acid (UA) and oleanolic acid (OA) as active principles. Phytochemical characterization of the crude extract determined RA as the major compound responsible for activity (40% inhibition at 100 microg/mL) since it represented approximately 1.5% of the dry mass of the leaves. Synergistic effects may also play a role.

Copyright 2009 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.

PMID:   19165747   [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Magnolol, a major bioactive constituent of the bark of Magnolia officinalis, exerts antiepileptic effects via the GABA/benzodiazepine receptor complex in mice

[Daniel Cooper]

Jango -

 

If you tried botox and it didn't work for you I wonder if you've got neuropathic pain and the muscle spasticity is the result of the pain rather than the cause of it.

 

Botox is generally very effective for cases like this.  If properly injected, it almost has to work.

 

If you have neuropathic pain, you might get your vitamin D3 levels checked and supplement if you are low.  I had some long term chronic soft tissue pain that was substantially improved by 2000 IU of D3 daily.  Always take with a fat containing meal if you try it.  Took about 2 months for me to see results.

 

 

[Area-1255]

Jango -

 

If you tried botox and it didn't work for you I wonder if you've got neuropathic pain and the muscle spasticity is the result of the pain rather than the cause of it.

 

Botox is generally very effective for cases like this.  If properly injected, it almost has to work.

 

If you have neuropathic pain, you might get your vitamin D3 levels checked and supplement if you are low.  I had some long term chronic soft tissue pain that was substantially improved by 2000 IU of D3 daily.  Always take with a fat containing meal if you try it.  Took about 2 months for me to see results.

Good point as well, D3 + Magnesium and neuromodulators may help as well!

Heck, even something like Kava Kava might be perfect!

[jango]

I appreciate your advice.

 

I've tried all kind of herbs, like melissa, passiflora, valerian.... Kava kava I think is not save to take for long periods. Anyway, the herbs do nothing to me. My problem is more serious. I understand people can notice some help with herbs but in my case (20 years of pain an muscle contraction) I need something "harder"

 

I had a complete blood test, my d vitamine was in normal levels, near to be low, but enough (35,50 ng/ml)  Normal level are between 30 - 100.

I heard its dangerous to take more vitamines than necessary. By the way, Im very white-skin, I dont know if it makes more difficult to me to get d D vitamine from the sun....

 

About foam rolling, I cant do it. The only self-release exercise can do for my area ys with the tennis-ball. There are many videos on you tube. It seems very easy but Im a bit afraid to do it badly...my trapezious is very sensitive and a bad exercise can be very harmful.

 

Thanks a lot to all trying to help me. Sometimes I feel alone dealing with that. Its difficult to people to understand that a simple muscle pain can be so annoying and stay forever

[gamesguru]

Hey man I read your other thread, asked if you could do lightweight shrugs, you said no pain is too severe.  Sorry for that. 

And also sorry that we are not able to help, but it is a challenging problem, and not very brain health-related.  I would consider healthy protein, muscle relaxants, curcumin?  I'm not sure if it's nerve or muscle damage.  Could be nerve damage, the way you describe it as trauma 15 years ago.

https://www.google.c...n crushed nerve

 

ctrl+f 'trapezius'
http://www.longecity...ng/#entry507552
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry686226

[Daniel Cooper]

I appreciate your advice.

 

I've tried all kind of herbs, like melissa, passiflora, valerian.... Kava kava I think is not save to take for long periods. Anyway, the herbs do nothing to me. My problem is more serious. I understand people can notice some help with herbs but in my case (20 years of pain an muscle contraction) I need something "harder"

 

I had a complete blood test, my d vitamine was in normal levels, near to be low, but enough (35,50 ng/ml)  Normal level are between 30 - 100.

I heard its dangerous to take more vitamines than necessary. By the way, Im very white-skin, I dont know if it makes more difficult to me to get d D vitamine from the sun....

 

About foam rolling, I cant do it. The only self-release exercise can do for my area ys with the tennis-ball. There are many videos on you tube. It seems very easy but Im a bit afraid to do it badly...my trapezious is very sensitive and a bad exercise can be very harmful.

 

Thanks a lot to all trying to help me. Sometimes I feel alone dealing with that. Its difficult to people to understand that a simple muscle pain can be so annoying and stay forever

 

Personally I would not want to be on the low end of the D3 scale.  Practitioners I talk to generally say they want to see their patients with chronic pain in the region of 75 ~ 110 nmol/L of D3. There is some correlation between low D3 and chronic pain.  2000 IU is certainly not going to hurt you.  I had about 20 years of neck and shoulder pain that is now substantially improved (to the point that I take nothing for pain) after starting D3 supplementation.  Now, I can not prove to anyone that the D3 was the solution, but you can imagine that I also tried many many things over 20 years (including several surgeries) and this was the one thing that seemed to help.

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 24 September 2015 - 02:34 PM.

[jango]

Daniel: what was your d3 vitamin level when you had the pain??

 

Is not dangerous to have too much D vitamine?

 

Probably I will try it...at least it must not be very expensive...

[Daniel Cooper]

I was in the mid 20's.  I'm very much an inside guy with pale skin.  Not a lot of sun exposure.

 

Certainly you can have too much of anything, up to and including water.  But 2000 IU is not a huge dose and there are millions and millions of people supplementing at that level.  If it makes you feel any better on a good sunny day with a decent amount of exposed skin your body is making the equivalent of 10's of thousands of IU of D3. Talk it over with your doctor if you're concerned.  Basically you want to target something in the 70+ nmol/L range.

 

It's not expensive.  Take it with a meal that contains some fat as D3 is fat soluble.  

 

If it helps you it will not usually be an overnight thing.  Normally you'd expect to see slow improvement over several months.  Nerves heal ... but slowly.  I could see an effect at probably 2 months.  At 6 months it was very definite and it was probably close to a year before the improvement leveled off.  That was after about 20 years of nearly constant pain.

 

If you don't feel you're getting any benefit after 3 or 4 months, discontinue and move on to something else.

 

I've been talking 2000 IU daily for about 7 years now.

 

 

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 24 September 2015 - 09:39 PM.