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unbelieveble! alcohol = nootropic

alcohol

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#1 jack black

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 02:30 AM


I just did an amazing discovery.

 

I'm very busy at work these days and brought tons of work home this weekend. I did very little on saturday, and had to catch up on sunday. by the evening the progress was slow and i did a couple of shots as my wife bought a new kind of spiced rum and we wanted to taste it. suddenly the motivation went though the roof and i ended up staying till 1AM and finishing the work (I had a few more shots in the process).

 

it was unbelievable. tonight, more work home. I did 3 shots and breezed through my teaching assignments and finished early. I went to the http://www.quantifie...b/study_session where i track my brain power and this was the best result i had this late in PM so far. some of the results were best ever, so it's not just subjective.

 

some cursory googling confirms my results: http://news.utexas.e...-says-new-study

 

man, how come i didn't make that discovery when i was a young student? it would have made it so much easier and fun!


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#2 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 09:36 AM

Please look up the definition of a nootropic, it's a very specific term. Since alcohol is toxic even if mildly, it can't be a nootropic.

 

https://en.wikipedia...characteristics

"He stated that nootropic drugs should have the following characteristics:

  1. They should enhance learning and memory.
  2. They should enhance the resistance of learned behaviors/memories to conditions which tend to disrupt them (e.g.electroconvulsive shockhypoxia).
  3. They should protect the brain against various physical or chemical injuries (e.g. barbituratesscopalamine).
  4. They should increase the efficacy of the tonic cortical/subcortical control mechanisms.
  5. They should lack the usual pharmacology of other psychotropic drugs (e.g. sedation, motor stimulation) and possess very few side effects and extremely low toxicity."

Edited by RatherBeUnknown, 18 October 2016 - 09:40 AM.

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#3 platypus

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 09:40 AM

Please look up the definition of a nootropic, it's a very specific term. Since alcohol is toxic even if mildly, it can't be a nootropic.

no·o·trop·ic
ˌnōəˈträpik/
adjective
 
  1. 1.
    (of a drug) used to enhance memory or other cognitive functions.
     
     
     
     

     

     

This means that drugs of abuse like alcohol or cocaine can have nootropic effects even if they are toxic. 


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#4 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 09:43 AM

 

Please look up the definition of a nootropic, it's a very specific term. Since alcohol is toxic even if mildly, it can't be a nootropic.

no·o·trop·ic
ˌnōəˈträpik/
adjective
 
  1. 1.
    (of a drug) used to enhance memory or other cognitive functions.
     
     
     
     

     

     

This means that drugs of abuse like alcohol or cocaine can have nootropic effects even if they are toxic. 

 

Look at my post again, it's just not true.


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#5 Turnbuckle

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 10:25 AM

 

Please look up the definition of a nootropic, it's a very specific term. Since alcohol is toxic even if mildly, it can't be a nootropic.

 

https://en.wikipedia...characteristics

"He stated that nootropic drugs should have the following characteristics:

  1. They should enhance learning and memory.
  2. They should enhance the resistance of learned behaviors/memories to conditions which tend to disrupt them (e.g.electroconvulsive shockhypoxia).
  3. They should protect the brain against various physical or chemical injuries (e.g. barbituratesscopalamine).
  4. They should increase the efficacy of the tonic cortical/subcortical control mechanisms.
  5. They should lack the usual pharmacology of other psychotropic drugs (e.g. sedation, motor stimulation) and possess very few side effects and extremely low toxicity."

 

 

 

That is simply someone's opinion, and it isn't as restrictive as you seem to think. The word should is used, not must. It also suggests low toxicity, and alcohol in small amounts does have low toxicity.

 

a new kind of spiced rum...it was unbelievable. tonight, more work home. I did 3 shots and breezed through my teaching assignments and finished early. 

 

 

Do you think it was the spices more than the rum? A number of essential oils are known to have nootropic properties.


Edited by Turnbuckle, 18 October 2016 - 10:41 AM.

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#6 OneScrewLoose

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 01:19 PM

I wouldn't consider this a nootropic effect. It's very likely you have underlying anxiety that the alcohol alleviated. Your best bet for a trial would be the closest thing to alcohol, a benzodiazapine, as both are agonists at the GABAa receptor. You may be hesitant, but I'm sure you've been through a lot of supplements, and if you want to get shit done like this, what do you have to lose from a trial? 


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#7 jack black

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Posted 19 October 2016 - 08:11 PM

 

Do you think it was the spices more than the rum? A number of essential oils are known to have nootropic properties.

 

 

interesting question that i didn't think about myself. i did 2 shots of regular (clear) rum last night and not much stimulation, more like the usual downer that i tend to remember (i don't drink that much).

 

will try the spiced one today again. if the results are suggestive i may need to do a some king of blinded test.


Edited by jack black, 19 October 2016 - 08:11 PM.


#8 High_Probability

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Posted 19 October 2016 - 10:22 PM

 

 

Please look up the definition of a nootropic, it's a very specific term. Since alcohol is toxic even if mildly, it can't be a nootropic.

 

https://en.wikipedia...characteristics

"He stated that nootropic drugs should have the following characteristics:

  1. They should enhance learning and memory.
  2. They should enhance the resistance of learned behaviors/memories to conditions which tend to disrupt them (e.g.electroconvulsive shockhypoxia).
  3. They should protect the brain against various physical or chemical injuries (e.g. barbituratesscopalamine).
  4. They should increase the efficacy of the tonic cortical/subcortical control mechanisms.
  5. They should lack the usual pharmacology of other psychotropic drugs (e.g. sedation, motor stimulation) and possess very few side effects and extremely low toxicity."

 

 

 

That is simply someone's opinion, and it isn't as restrictive as you seem to think. The word should is used, not must. It also suggests low toxicity, and alcohol in small amounts does have low toxicity.

 

a new kind of spiced rum...it was unbelievable. tonight, more work home. I did 3 shots and breezed through my teaching assignments and finished early. 

 

 

Do you think it was the spices more than the rum? A number of essential oils are known to have nootropic properties.

 

 

Good point about the essential oils especially since the added spices tend to include Cinnamon and maybe Rosemary (and others of course).  As discussed on previous threads, cinnamon can have some nootropic properties (through Sodium Benzoate).  https://epiphanyasd....-or-sodium.html cites some interesting studies pertaining to Cinnamon/Sodium Benzoate and its effects on cognition of individuals with Autism and Schizophrenia, through NMDA signalling and effects on BDNF.  Someone on a Reddit Nootropic discussion mentioned the above blog, it is an interesting read.  Sorry to be somewhat off topic... 


Edited by High_Probability, 19 October 2016 - 10:23 PM.


#9 OneScrewLoose

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Posted 20 October 2016 - 12:59 AM

Can we be real here? Exactly how much cinnamon and other spiced do you think were in the amount you drank? Do you really think it was enough to have a cognitive effect?


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#10 jack black

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Posted 20 October 2016 - 04:12 PM

So, the spiced rum last night did have some mild stimulation on top of being tipsy. It could be placebo though. I did not get any work done last night. I ended up watching a crooked politician arguing with an idiotic bully (you know what I mean).

BTW, I've got to stop these rum "experiments" as I have a hangover today.

Edit: I googled for cinnamon and it's known to have stimulation effects. I have some cinnamon supplements and should try instead.

Edited by jack black, 20 October 2016 - 04:42 PM.


#11 Junk Master

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Posted 20 October 2016 - 04:30 PM

Lol...If that were true I wouldn't need my NZT anymore!

 

I just quit all alcohol, mainly because I'm training for a marathon and find no alcohol or alcohol in moderation (which can be difficult) greatly enhances my rate of recovery, and I'm finding my long term memory greatly enhanced-- then again, it could be the intranasal insulin. :)

 

In any event, while I certainly wouldn't recommend either alcohol or benzo's, or Phenibut/GHB/GLB as nootropics, I think you would find a 200-500 mg dose of Phenibut to remove any task anxiety and allow you to breeze through work WITHOUT SEDATION.  That is the reason the Russians included it in Cosmonaut med kits, after all.

 

Then again, as my son is fond of reminding me, they also included a SHOTGUN. :|?



#12 Dichotohmy

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Posted 21 October 2016 - 05:42 AM

Alcohol has a wildly broad spectrum of pharmacological, endocrine, and metabolic effects, so its not easy at all to pin any benefit down to obvious possibilities like alcohol reduces excess glutaminergic activity or reduces anxiety.


Can we be real here? Exactly how much cinnamon and other spiced do you think were in the amount you drank? Do you really think it was enough to have a cognitive effect?


It really is Longecity speculation at its best. Keep in mind that liquor, wine, or beer makers aren't required to divulge or label what goes into their products, and for all one can know without a chemistry lab handy, the spice in that spiced rum is artificial flavor.

#13 jack black

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Posted 21 October 2016 - 03:36 PM

The plot thickens. I didn't drink and took cinnamon supplement for second day now and not only there is no effect from cinnamon, but the mood is noticeably depressed.

It really feels like the drink was a stimulant and I'm feeling a withdrawal.

But here is one variable. I recently started tianeptine+5htp combo. Could the drink somehow interfere with that? Maybe increased absorption of the otherwise poorly soluble acid?

Now, how about nutmeg?

Edited by jack black, 21 October 2016 - 04:01 PM.


#14 LiveWell

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 03:33 PM

@Jack Black, You're not the only one to be able to work a bit better with alcohol. A few semesters ago, I wrote ALL of my history papers with a glass of La Quinta Syrah Port (I Love That Stuff!!!). The lowest grade I ever received was a 98%.

 

That being said, for me, it was the relaxation that the port provided rather than the overwhelming stress of knowing I had to write a 10 page paper with tons of details critiquing books and whatnot. I'm not a great student.  ;)

 

The port seemed to grease the proverbial wheels rather than provide a more clear, conscious mental state. It helped me relax and I'd go through the notes I took on the books and simply talk to my computer using Dragon Naturally Speaking. For me, the dictation software and wine work quite well together. I'd definitely call them a winning combination, but not nootropic.


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#15 jack black

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 08:00 PM

@Jack Black, You're not the only one to be able to work a bit better with alcohol. A few semesters ago, I wrote ALL of my history papers with a glass of La Quinta Syrah Port (I Love That Stuff!!!). The lowest grade I ever received was a 98%.

 

That being said, for me, it was the relaxation that the port provided rather than the overwhelming stress of knowing I had to write a 10 page paper with tons of details critiquing books and whatnot. I'm not a great student.  ;)

 

The port seemed to grease the proverbial wheels rather than provide a more clear, conscious mental state. It helped me relax and I'd go through the notes I took on the books and simply talk to my computer using Dragon Naturally Speaking. For me, the dictation software and wine work quite well together. I'd definitely call them a winning combination, but not nootropic.

 

cool story. i may need to reserve alcohol for work rather than social events (still depressed after that multiday drinking).
 



#16 jack black

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 05:31 PM

i thought i should provide an update. the post alcohol depression lasted almost a week. the best i can explain it, alcohol use produced a release of dopamine, that help alleviate my ADHD-like symptoms. after stopping drinking, i went into a hypodopaminergic state that is known to be present in acute alcohol withdrawal.

maybe tianeptine treatment made me more sensitive to those dopamine shifts. especially since tianeptine decreases serotonin thus should increase dopamine.


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#17 OneScrewLoose

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 12:41 AM

So basically, you went through what everyone else experiences when drinking? ;)


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#18 gamesguru

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 01:17 AM

Light drinkers consistently score better on cognitive assays than abstainers, so consistently in fact, that you must admit something is up.  But it's less effective in addictive personalities.  Thats why I do just a bottle a week.. cause it's better than abstaining, wut were u thinkin?  I'm also wondering why some infrequent drinkers have euphoric hangovers.  What's up with that man, can't all be bad.  poison's in the dose



#19 OneScrewLoose

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 02:06 AM

I'm just saying you were right about the dopamine increase and subsequent drop. That's pretty much what happens, nice observation. But unfortunately for alcohol, it's considered a 'dirty drug', and many other systems in the body are effected too. I was being a little tongue-in-cheek with the every drinker comment, but there is some truth to that. I felt you were over-analyzing a typical drinking experience.

I also think there are better ways to get this cognitive boost than alcohol.


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#20 gamesguru

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 02:55 AM

How is alcohol a dirty drug, moreover, how is it worse than ginseng or an unworthy addition to a stack?  There are also issues on glutamate/acetylcholine/serotonin, further compounded by atrophied dendrites, which though relieved by your sobriety, will not heal up for many months (even w bacopa).  You can avoid these issues in full by thanking your parents for the non-addictive personality.

 

I don't see 3 to 7 drinks a week ever being bad.  Synaptic plasticity was a good thing last time I checked.  Last time I checked things were going well, things were going according to Newton's laws, not Morphy's.

Can alcohol help the brain remember? Repeated ethanol exposure enhances synaptic plasticity in key brain area, study finds

Date:

April 12, 2011

Source:

University of Texas at Austin

Summary:

Drinking alcohol primes certain areas of our brain to learn and remember better, says a new study. The common view that drinking is bad for learning and memory isn't wrong, says a neurobiologist, but it highlights only one side of what ethanol consumption does to the brain.

 

J Neurosci. 2016 Jan 20;36(3):701-13.

The First Alcohol Drink Triggers mTORC1-Dependent Synaptic Plasticity in Nucleus Accumbens Dopamine D1 Receptor Neurons.

Beckley JT1, Laguesse S1, Phamluong K1, Morisot N1, Wegner SA1, Ron D2.

Abstract

Early binge-like alcohol drinking may promote the development of hazardous intake. However, the enduring cellular alterations following the first experience with alcohol consumption are not fully understood. We found that the first binge-drinking alcohol session produced enduring enhancement of excitatory synaptic transmission onto dopamine D1 receptor-expressing neurons (D1+ neurons) in the nucleus accumbens (NAc) shell but not the core in mice, which required D1 receptors (D1Rs) and mechanistic target of rapamycin complex 1 (mTORC1). Furthermore, inhibition of mTORC1 activity during the first alcohol drinking session reduced alcohol consumption and preference of a subsequent drinking session. mTORC1 is critically involved in RNA-to-protein translation, and we found that the first alcohol session rapidly activated mTORC1 in NAc shell D1+ neurons and increased synaptic expression of the AMPAR subunit GluA1 and the scaffolding protein Homer. Finally, D1R stimulation alone was sufficient to activate mTORC1 in the NAc to promote mTORC1-dependent translation of the synaptic proteins GluA1 and Homer. Together, our results indicate that the first alcohol drinking session induces synaptic plasticity in NAc D1+ neurons via enhanced mTORC1-dependent translation of proteins involved in excitatory synaptic transmission that in turn drives the reinforcement learning associated with the first alcohol experience. Thus, the alcohol-dependent D1R/mTORC1-mediated increase in synaptic function in the NAc may reflect a neural imprint of alcohol's reinforcing properties, which could promote subsequent alcohol intake.

Significance statement

Consuming alcohol for the first time is a learning event that drives further drinking. Here, we identified a mechanism that may underlie the reinforcing learning associated with the initial alcohol experience. We show that the first alcohol experience induces a persistent enhancement of excitatory synaptic transmission on NAc shell D1+ neurons, which is dependent on D1R and mTORC1. We also find that mTORC1 is necessary for the sustained alcohol consumption and preference across the initial drinking sessions. The first alcohol binge activates mTORC1 in NAc D1+ neurons and increases levels of synaptic proteins involved in glutamatergic signaling. Thus, the D1R/mTORC1-dependent plasticity following the first alcohol exposure may be a critical cellular component of reinforcement learning.



#21 OneScrewLoose

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 05:04 AM

'Dirty drug' is simply a pharmacological term for effecting many receptor/neurotransmitter receptors at once. Most prescribed antipsychotics are as such. It has nothing to do whether it's harmful to you or not.



#22 gamesguru

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 05:55 AM

free love for all receptors

#23 jack black

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 12:12 PM

free love for all receptors


"Dirty sex"?

#24 gamesguru

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 02:23 PM

with a tramp in a shower. you know it


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#25 jack black

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Posted 03 August 2017 - 05:29 PM

update: there is another study that confirms positive effects of alcohol on memory: https://arstechnica....efore-drinking/

 

maybe this is due to alcohol interfering with NMDA signaling?

http://www.longecity...r-upregulation/

 

or is it via dopamine release?

 

it's probably not GABA as agonists make us dumber.


Edited by jack black, 03 August 2017 - 05:34 PM.


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#26 iseethelight

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 01:55 AM

I have an odd relationship with alcohol. I can't tolerate hard liquor / spirits like vodka, whisky, gin but do well on wine. So it must be something other than the ethanol making me feel good and motivated..

This may explain my dilemma:https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/8949948


Edited by iseethelight, 06 August 2017 - 02:03 AM.

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