16 replies to this topic

[csrpj]

There are many good supplements that really work and make your mind and body healthier while you are taking it. Many awesome adaptogens will improve your state, but when you stop taking them, you eventually go back to your previous baseline. This is good stuff, but I'm curious to learn which are the supplements that cause healing in the body and brain such that that healing is done and remains after a course of that supplement is over?

[Sciencyst]

Let's see what we can find by querying google scholar with terms such as: 'long-term effects from single administration'

Okay, so far I see negative things about MDMA, haloperidol, nicotine, PCP.. Okay need to dig deeper.

Will update with what I find. Hopefully new-ish exciting stuff!

[niner]

The sort of one-shot healing that's being described here is rare. There are a few things I can think of that potentially last a long time, but maybe not forever. Telomerase activators may result in the lengthening of short telomeres. That's a relatively persistent change, to the extent that it actually works. If you correct a deficiency of a nutrient that your body can store, like iodine or some of the transition metals, then you will have a relatively long period of time before a deficiency develops again. That's not the same as a 'cure', but it has a long time course. Some substances have very long half lives, like vitamin D or c60-oo. If you get topped off on these, you're probably good for some number of months. Since you mentioned the brain, that's a case where you might tend to see a "healing" phenomenon. Some of the compounds that people here are looking at hold the potential to encourage growth of neural tissue, which could have a very long term consequence. TBH, rather than supplements, these sort of compounds are research chemicals at best. (IP violations at worst...)

[bocor]

i have recently started higher doses of chlorella sun brand 9 grams a day and has affected my social interaction for the better i also seem to be mentally sharper with less pain in my back and neck more positive outlook for sure and nothing has phased my depression for years until this i also want to try pine pollen and deer placenta when i get the funds as ive heard good things from both of those as far as a youthening effect

[Gerrans]

I always keep some Source Naturals Wellness Herbal Formula handy. Only take them when I feel the first hint of a cold or flu, and then I knock back three with each meal. After that, the virus never gets going. This way, I have not been ill for four years. So it may be that this supplement does cure the incipient illness.

On the other hand, it may have no effect at all and the reason my illnesses go away almost before they start is that I am eating well and taking some other vitamins. Either way, these stinky fellows stay on my shelf; no harm in a placebo if it works.

Edited by Gerrans, 05 December 2013 - 04:55 PM.

[renfr]

Permanent healing is technically impossible from a single administration since your system faces damage everyday.
Niner is right, if you cure some deficiencies or start a chelation therapy then you will have long lasting healing but it won't be permanent.

[Colour]

Dang it renfr Niner already said that hahhh

[hav]

DMSO seems to stimulate muscle healing. Once the injury is healed, damage doesn't spontaneously reappear. Haven't heard about any dangers of long term use, however, but it shouldn't be necessary.

Things that fall into the category of a growth hormones might fit your definition. Problem is they might also enhance tumor growth so long term use might be a really bad idea. TB500 stimulates tendon healing. As long as the injury was the result of over-exertion and you don't do it again, maintenance shouldn't be needed. It might be considered kind of a borderline growth hormone but NAC has been shown to obviate any long term tumor enhancement effects. Gotu Kola stimulates wound healing but has similar but lesser pronounced issues that might be minimized by cycling. Some people do that to maintain calming effects.

Howard

[Bateau]

Things that are intended to remove by-products of life that have been linked to age related diseases (e.g. advanced glycation end-products, aging pigments etc.) could be taken for short periods and theoretically have long-term effects. One off the top of my head that is readily purchasable is Centrophenoxine for removing lipofuscin buildup in neurons.

Gotu Kola stimulates wound healing but has similar but lesser pronounced issues that might be minimized by cycling. Some people do that to maintain calming effects.

Can you elaborate on the 'lesser pronounced' issues with Gotu Kola supplementation? Never heard anything myself except that thread by scienceguy where he went completely overboard and condemned all GABAergic supplements. And then went on to promote even less understood GABAergic supplements like Relora (active ingredient Honokiol, very GABAergic, very pleiotropic, completely unstudied in humans) and more dangerous and also understudied prescription drugs like Clonidine (TONS of side effects and bad rebound effects).

Edited by Bateau, 07 December 2013 - 06:15 PM.

[hav]

Gotu Kola stimulates wound healing but has similar but lesser pronounced issues that might be minimized by cycling. Some people do that to maintain calming effects.

Can you elaborate on the 'lesser pronounced' issues with Gotu Kola supplementation? Never heard anything myself except that thread by scienceguy where he went completely overboard and condemned all GABAergic supplements...

I think this is the site that gave me the impression that the tumor growth promotion (and liver issues which I forgot about) are less of an issue if you cycle off for 2 weeks out of every 8:

http://umm.edu/healt.../herb/gotu-kola

Howard

[Bateau]

Interesting.

There's 4 studies on pubmed that mention cancer and Asiaticoside (the chemical mentioned as a potential carcinogen in the article you provided). 3 of them suggest that Gotu Kola could be used as an adjunct therapy to CURE cancer.

Asiaticoside, as a biochemical modulator, may induce apoptosis,and enhance anti-tumor activity of vincristine in cancer cells, might be useful in cancer chemotherapy.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15601545

Three new 9,19-cycloartane triterpene glycosides, asiaticoside A (1), asiaticoside B (2), and 25-O-ethylcimigenol-3-O-beta-D-xylopyranoside (3), together with cimiacemoside I (4), 25-O-acetylcimigenol-3-beta-O-D-xyloside (5), and 25-anhydrocimigenol-beta-O-D-xyloside (6) were isolated from the roots/rhizomes extract of Actaea asiatica, and their structures were established by spectroscopic methods (IR, HRESIMS, and NMR). Compounds 1-3, 5, and 6 had notable cytotoxicity against HepG2 and MCF-7 cancer cell lines.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17067171

This study showed that asiaticoside, acting as a biochemical modulator, may induce apoptosis and enhance antitumor activity in MCF-7 cells, as determined by (99m)Tc-Tfos and (99m)Tc-MIBI uptake. These findings are promising for cancer chemotherapy. Future studies should be performed to confirm our findings and to further delineate the clinical role of asiaticoside

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22080437


In the fourth study they covered rats with benzene (a known carcinogen) and Asiaticoside and to quote

"The incidence of reticuloses and malignant lymphomas was higher in the asiaticoside-treated mice than in the controls, but the difference was not significant"

http://cancerres.aac.../32/7/1463.long


All in all an understandable concern, but it seems to be fairly harmless, if not helpful in regards to cancer.

Edited by Bateau, 07 December 2013 - 09:15 PM.

[hav]

Yes, studies on gotu kola seem contradictory. This study might explain why:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15507334

There are apparently multiple constituents with opposing cancer and/or tumor effects. Guess you'd get them all from the whole herb. Water and alcohol extracts, however, seem to have opposite effects on tumor necrosis factor.

Howard

[Bateau]

The concerns over liver toxicity seems to be due to poor harvesting procedures of the Gotu Kola [6]. It grows in wet dark areas and is sometimes harvested from unsaintary bogs and sewers and not properly cleaned. The significant microorganism contamination would put a heavy load on the liver and would explain the rare case reports of hepatotoxicity, of which there is about a half dozen. Then there's scientific trials for gotu kola treating hepatic encephalopathy [1], liver fibrosis [2], fatty liver disease [3], arsenic poisoning [4], and gamma radiation damage [5], all studies showing significant improvements in biomarkers of liver health with gotu kola treatment.

[1] http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16729760
[2] http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15366600
[3] http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19323754
[4] http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17600859
[5] http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16161023
[6] http://hortsci.ashsp...t/42/3/633.full

Edited by Bateau, 07 December 2013 - 09:17 PM.

[Bateau]

Yes, studies on gotu kola seem contradictory. This study might explain why:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15507334

There are apparently multiple constituents with opposing cancer and/or tumor effects. Guess you'd get them all from the whole herb. Water and alcohol extracts, however, seem to have opposite effects on tumor necrosis factor.

The study you've referenced has nothing to do with cancer or tumors and in no way whatsoever implies that gotu kola caused cancer malignancies. It shows that centella asiatica has both pro and anti-inflammitory mechanisms, which AFAIK would be necessary for it to accelerate would healing without causing systemic inflammation, which is what it does. The study just helps explain how Gotu Kola does what it's usually consumed for, accelerated wound healing.

Thanks for the discussion, I always want to get to the bottom of the potential risks of the substances I'm taking.

Sorry OP for the threadjack.

Edited by Bateau, 07 December 2013 - 09:33 PM.

[Sciencyst]

There are many experiences that can catalyse long-term psychological healing, but long term physical healing?- I'm not so sure.

A positive psychedelic experience in a a good setting for example : http://link.springer...0213-006-0457-5

[kurdishfella]

only essential nutrients help with healing not herbs or drugs 

your body is constantly healing and repairing and breaking

 

 

 

 

[ironfistx]

prescription drugs like Clonidine (TONS of side effects and bad rebound effects).

Side effects? I've used for years.

Edited by ironfistx, 12 February 2023 - 05:16 PM.