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Nicotinamide Mononucleotide (NMN) personal experience thread

nmn nicotinamide mononucleotide

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#511 NaHanyate

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 09:11 PM

About whether he does sublingual or not:

https://twitter.com/...3716415491?s=12

David Sinclair says that he does not do sublingual. That’s good enough for me.
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#512 LawrenceW

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 10:04 PM

Michael
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Posted 19 March 2019 - 10:12 AM

able, on 13 Mar 2019 - 08:35 AM, said:snapback.png

It has been proven that NR and NMN are almost entirely metabolized in the GI tract and liver.


Yes — whether delivered orally or even via injection, albeit to a lesser degree. So that's still a substantial issue even if SL delivery of NMN is very high (an unproven postulate as of today).
 

able, on 13 Mar 2019 - 08:35 AM, said:snapback.png

There is a lot of research on sublingual delivery of other molecules and it is known what is required for a successful sublingual product, and what a typical absorption rate is.

 
Yes, and that research would suggest that NMN and NR are poor candidates  ;) . NMN does have a favorable molecular weight (334.22 Da), but it's very hydrophilic, and hydrophilic substances are generally poor candidates for sublingual delivery: they have no ability to cross the mucosal membranes, and while a very small amount may be absorbed instead tend to just dissolve in the saliva and seep down the throat. Instead, good candidates are mildly lipophilic drugs:

"Lipids present in the oral mucous membrane offer the main barrier to the permeability of hydrophilic drugs. On the other hand, well-hydrated connective tissues provide resistance to lipophilic drugs. Thus, the potential transport path across the oral mucous membrane may be either polar or non-polar. Non-polar molecules cross through the lipid regions of the epithelium, while polar molecules travel through ionic channels present in the intercellular spaces of the epithelium, or aqueous pores present in the epithelial cells. ... For efficient absorption through the oral mucosa, the drug must be hydrophobic enough to partition into the lipid bilayer, but not so hydrophobic such that once it is in the bilayer, it will not partition out again....  For this reason, an understanding of a drug’s lipophilic or hydrophilic nature during the developmental stage of the drug product appears to be the most useful index for evaluating its suitability for absorption across the oral mucosa.
http://www.pharmtech...62556?page=full
 

"Factors affecting the sublingual absorption
Lipophilicity of drug: For a drug to be absorbed completely through sublingual route, the drug must have slightly higher lipid solubility than that required for GI absorption is necessary for passive permeation."
https://innovareacad...Suppl2/1092.pdf
 
"Lipophilic drugs  are better absorbed [via the sublingual route] than hydrophilic drugs."
https://www.scienced...k/9780120885923
 
"Sublingual administration ... takes advantage of the permeability of the oral epithelium and is the preferred route for a few potent lipophilic drugs, such as nitroglycerin and oxytocin, and even the commonly used oral sedative triazolam"
https://www.scienced...m/science/book/9780323393072

This can be a non-issue when you only need a sub-milligram quantity to be absorbed and you're willing/able to throw a massive overkill dose at the problem, but not when you're using hundreds of milligrams of something and hoping for a better result than a similarly high dose by the enteral route.
 

able, on 13 Mar 2019 - 08:35 AM, said:snapback.png

Of course there have been no human studies yet showing if NMN is actually absorbed sublingually.


... nor any animal studies, nor even any tissue-culture models. There is diddley-squat, AFAICS.
 

able, on 13 Mar 2019 - 08:35 AM, said:snapback.png

If you actually have reason to believe that NMN, NR, or NAD+ is definitely NOT absorbed at all sublingually, then you might say they are spreading misinformation.

Otherwise, I would suggest it is marketing claims that have not been proven.


The burden of proof lies on the person making the positive claim, especially when s/he has a financial interest in the claim. I think it is fair to say that it borders on misinformation or deceptive marketing to make as definitive a set of assertions as ABN currently does in the absence of any evidence.
 
They say they're looking to conduct a human absorption trial; that would be admirable, so long as they are hands-off about the design and execution and agree to publication irrespective of the results. I'd encourage all ABN customers to drop them an email expressing this.
 
Beyond the provocative headline, this thread would seem best-merged into the Sublingual NR and NMN thread. Any objections?

 


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#513 NaHanyate

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 10:31 PM

I thought this is the NMN personal thread.Let’s just keep it at that.

#514 able

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 11:01 PM

 

 
They say they're looking to conduct a human absorption trial; that would be admirable, so long as they are hands-off about the design and execution and agree to publication irrespective of the results. I'd encourage all ABN customers to drop them an email expressing this.
 

 

On their facebook page they say they have preliminary results that show sublingual elevates NAD+ in blood much more than capsules, which is why Dr Sinclair tweeted this:

 

"While on the topic, measuring NAD levels after a single, isolated dose misses a lot of what actually goes on. More to come."

 

Hope it doesn't take 2 years to publish like the Chromadex studies.



#515 Aak

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 04:18 AM

A late reply but i definitely advise the previous poster against takng statins. I cant remember the exact science from my studies but in a around about explanation it stops cholesterol absorption which are steroidal components and which are also the building block from which our precious hormones are made. In turn you may affect your testosterone, progesterone, oestrogen production etc. 

I have to ask i have the ABN powder in my freezer and am yet to use as im still waiting on the arrival of my child and then wasnt prepared to be a guinea pig for that, i unfortunately have lost my scoop. I stupidly saw it in the freezer quite a while later and didnt put the two together. Im just wondering if anyone can tell me a rough idea of what the scoop it comes with might be compared to eg 1/2 teaspoon or something, without me having to start weighing it. 



#516 TheFountain

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 06:28 AM

Does anybody dose NMN in the evenings?

Those of you who take it several times daily what is your dose interval and amount?



#517 Harkijn

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 10:18 AM

 i unfortunately have lost my scoop. I stupidly saw it in the freezer quite a while later and didnt put the two together. Im just wondering if anyone can tell me a rough idea of what the scoop it comes with might be compared to eg 1/2 teaspoon or something, without me having to start weighing it. 

Teaspoon sizes vary per country so I couldn't tell about that but one level scoop (as is recommended on the container) registers 0.0007 on my microscales. Hope this helps!


Edited by Harkijn, 19 June 2019 - 10:19 AM.

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#518 Oakman

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 02:08 PM

 Im just wondering if anyone can tell me a rough idea of what the scoop it comes with might be compared to eg 1/2 teaspoon or something, without me having to start weighing it. 

 My US 1/4 teaspoon is 300 mgs. on my milligram scale.


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#519 The Beauty of Peace

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 02:16 PM

Does anybody dose NMN in the evenings?

Those of you who take it several times daily what is your dose interval and amount?

 

 

I do sometimes. It had no effect on my sleep and I am a very bad sleeper.

 

I take 125 mg of NMN powder and 125 mg of NAD+ powder per day.

 

I love NMN more than NAD+. 

 

750 mg of NAD+ makes me jittery.

 

No other effects from NAD+.

 

With NMN I lift heavier weights and I don't feel tired.

 

Good stuff!


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#520 Aak

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 02:34 AM

Thanks Oakman and Harkijn for answering that for me.

 



#521 TheFountain

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 06:34 AM

I do sometimes. It had no effect on my sleep and I am a very bad sleeper.

 

I take 125 mg of NMN powder and 125 mg of NAD+ powder per day.

 

I love NMN more than NAD+. 

 

750 mg of NAD+ makes me jittery.

 

No other effects from NAD+.

 

With NMN I lift heavier weights and I don't feel tired.

 

Good stuff!

What is your reason for dosing NMN and NAD+ at the same time?



#522 midas

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 07:46 AM

On their facebook page they say they have preliminary results that show sublingual elevates NAD+ in blood much more than capsules, which is why Dr Sinclair tweeted this:

 

"While on the topic, measuring NAD levels after a single, isolated dose misses a lot of what actually goes on. More to come."

 

Hope it doesn't take 2 years to publish like the Chromadex studies.

 

Also keeping in mind Sinclair is in the process of designing and coming to market with a multi-compound pill in the future, so he wouldn't want the idea of well absorbed SL NMN to cloud the issue for him..


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#523 The Beauty of Peace

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 12:34 PM

What is your reason for dosing NMN and NAD+ at the same time?

 

 

Supposedly, NMN Is better for physical performance (true for me) and NAD+ is for mental performance (I have not noticed that).



#524 bluemoon

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 02:26 PM

Supposedly, NMN Is better for physical performance (true for me) and NAD+ is for mental performance (I have not noticed that).

 

If comparing just NMN and NR for cognitive function, I think it will be at least two to three years before we know the effects of both.


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#525 mindbender

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 04:20 PM

So I just took my very first dose of NMN, powder form, Alive by Nature brand. I let it dissolve under my tongue, but now I'm realizing perhaps dissolved in water is better? Is that what Dr. Sinclair means by "sublingual, no"? 

 

 



#526 able

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 05:42 PM

So I just took my very first dose of NMN, powder form, Alive by Nature brand. I let it dissolve under my tongue, but now I'm realizing perhaps dissolved in water is better? Is that what Dr. Sinclair means by "sublingual, no"? 

 

Dr Sinclair later clarified a little with this tweet:

 

"Human clinical trials show that swallowing NAD precursors raises blood NAD levels just fine"

 

Which sounds like he is not saying there is a problem with sublingual,  or it doesn't work - simply that it  is not needed.

 

As Midas says above, he might be biased, since his company Metrobiotech is in Phase 2 studies now with a patented NMN combination capsule.


Edited by able, 20 June 2019 - 05:44 PM.

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#527 mindbender

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 06:03 PM

Thanks Able. So either sublingual or dissolved in water should be similarly effective. If dissolving in water is ok, is dissolving in warm or cold coffee with heavy cream ok? Or maybe better to keep them separated?

So far with the one scoop under the tongue I'm not feeling anything. Is it ok to go to 2 scoops the first day, or should I do a more gradual workup? Is 2 scoops the typical dosage most people take?

#528 lost69

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 08:03 PM

Supposedly, NMN Is better for physical performance (true for me) and NAD+ is for mental performance (I have not noticed that).

 i also noticed exactly this, NR sublingual definitely boosts my mental clarity, nmn dont or so little that i dont notice and nmn works so much more than nr on muscles...but i also had hi sens C rective protein jumping from 0.1 to 0.6


Edited by lost69, 20 June 2019 - 08:03 PM.


#529 TheFountain

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 03:22 AM

Supposedly, NMN Is better for physical performance (true for me) and NAD+ is for mental performance (I have not noticed that).

So they're supposed to have a Synergistic effect?


 i also noticed exactly this, NR sublingual definitely boosts my mental clarity, nmn dont or so little that i dont notice and nmn works so much more than nr on muscles...but i also had hi sens C rective protein jumping from 0.1 to 0.6

 

Are you saying NMN increased your inflammation marker? Are you directly attributing that to NMN?



#530 lost69

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 11:06 PM

So they're supposed to have a Synergistic effect?


 

Are you saying NMN increased your inflammation marker? Are you directly attributing that to NMN?

 

definitely but more tests needed to confirm the trend.i follow CRP since 2016 and the trend has always been on decline especially after taking fisetin and other senolytics.latest test on decline was on feb this year at 0.16 then after taking nmn about 1month next test 0.6, now the trend with more monthly tests is needed to confirm it



#531 TheFountain

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 12:31 AM

definitely but more tests needed to confirm the trend.i follow CRP since 2016 and the trend has always been on decline especially after taking fisetin and other senolytics.latest test on decline was on feb this year at 0.16 then after taking nmn about 1month next test 0.6, now the trend with more monthly tests is needed to confirm it

 

Maybe, as a longevity supplement that targets NAD and cellular health, what it's doing is making your body go into a slightly low grade inflammation cycle to help strengthen the immune system because that's partly what it does? 

 

Just a dumb thought. 



#532 lost69

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 09:39 AM

Maybe, as a longevity supplement that targets NAD and cellular health, what it's doing is making your body go into a slightly low grade inflammation cycle to help strengthen the immune system because that's partly what it does? 

 

Just a dumb thought. 

there s a study where nmn makes senescence cells make more inflammatory signals, i think this is what it is doing now


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#533 mindbender

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 02:40 PM

For those of you who lost weight with NMN, what do you think the mechanism for that was? Loss of appetite, so ate less? More active, suddenly started going to the gym or doing more weights? Continued everything as normal and weight mysteriously came off?
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#534 WillNitschke

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Posted 23 June 2019 - 09:04 AM

I have been doing intensive resistance training for many years. I track my numbers very carefully. On a similar dose I can report ZERO additional strength gains. I am a useful benchmark for this, as people tend to increase their ability to lift weight over time anyway. However, my gains have pretty much maxed out.

Further, my training partner takes the same dose and does the same work-out. Also ZERO additional detectable strength gains.

NMN in modest doses, for me personally or my training partner, does NOT improve strength gains in the gym nor does it provide any simulatory effect whatsoever.

It also does NOT cause weight loss for either of us.

 

 

***************************************************************

With NMN I lift heavier weights and I don't feel tired.

 

Good stuff!

 


Edited by WillNitschke, 23 June 2019 - 09:05 AM.

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#535 Andey

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 05:15 PM

 

NMN in modest doses, for me personally or my training partner, does NOT improve strength gains in the gym nor does it provide any simulatory effect whatsoever.
 

***************************************************************

With NMN I lift heavier weights and I don't feel tired.

 

Good stuff!

 

 

  I dont get it - are you seeing increase in strength or not?


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#536 aribadabar

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 09:46 PM

 

With NMN I lift heavier weights and I don't feel tired.

 

Good stuff!

 

 

 

I have been doing intensive resistance training for many years. I track my numbers very carefully. On a similar dose I can report ZERO additional strength gains. I am a useful benchmark for this, as people tend to increase their ability to lift weight over time anyway. However, my gains have pretty much maxed out.

Further, my training partner takes the same dose and does the same work-out. Also ZERO additional detectable strength gains.

NMN in modest doses, for me personally or my training partner, does NOT improve strength gains in the gym nor does it provide any simulatory effect whatsoever.

It also does NOT cause weight loss for either of us.

 

 

 

***********************************************************

 

With NMN I lift heavier weights and I don't feel tired.

 

Good stuff!

 

 

  I dont get it - are you seeing increase in strength or not?

 

He did not.

 

The text below the asterisks is just a quote from the first user.


Edited by aribadabar, 24 June 2019 - 09:46 PM.

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#537 TheFountain

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 12:37 AM

He did not.

 

The text below the asterisks is just a quote from the first user.

He did not use the quote system properly then, thus it is not the other users fault he perceived it that way.


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#538 aribadabar

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 12:44 AM

He did not use the quote system properly then, thus it is not the other users fault he perceived it that way.

 

I just tried to explain the situation and clear the confusion, not pass judgement.

 

Hope this helped.


Edited by aribadabar, 25 June 2019 - 12:47 AM.

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#539 WillNitschke

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 09:24 AM

I am certain that NMN does not provide any perceptible strength*1 gains in modest doses*2. People here are reporting placebo.

 

*1. It's very unlikely that anyone could notice a gain that at least didn't provide a 5% overall increase or better. So I wouldn't rule out gains less than 5%

 

*2. A dosage of around 250mg daily.


Edited by WillNitschke, 25 June 2019 - 09:29 AM.

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#540 able

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 01:25 AM

It's a strange thing about anecdotes - most people say they don't mean much, unless it is their own.

 

I personally have seen great improvement in endurance and muscle building over the last 18 months with NMN.

 

At 61, I have 44 years of consistent training.  Some periods of slack, and some periods where I focused more on running or riding, but in the gym an average of 2 days a week over those years.

 

I'm not saying it helped me get stronger than in my 20s, but I definately restored the performance lost over the last 15-20 years.

 

Perhaps you are still able to lift the same as younger and haven't seen much dropoff yet?   If so, I wouldn't expect NMN to help you get stronger.

 

Also, I often take 1 gram a day (but a lot of variation and skip several days).

 

I also prefer the powder.

 

So those might be reasons we notice different effects.  

 

Or perhaps there is a biological reason I benefit from it and you don't.  But I really doubt the 15-20% improvement  I have seen  is placebo.


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