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Nicotinamide Mononucleotide (NMN) personal experience thread

nmn nicotinamide mononucleotide

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#91 bluemoon

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 03:39 AM

I agree the scant evidence hints that 500 mg might provide the same, or nearly the same, benefit as 1000 mg.  On average. 

 

Some people might benefit from higher dosage.  

 

 

I noticed that Dr Sinclair used to say he takes 500 mg NMN per day, and now says he is taking 750 Mg per day.

 

No, the evidence is not "scant". We know in NR that 1) 1000 mg a day increases NAD+ over 100% thanks to Brenner's one week trial when he took 1000 mg for a week and published the results, 2) 1000 mg after 6 weeks increases NAD+ only 60% and 3) 500 mg a day increases NAD+ 90% 4 weeks in but drops to just 55% by week 8.

 

By the way, where did you see that Sinclair is taking 750 mg of NMN a day?   



#92 able

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 05:04 AM

No, the evidence is not "scant". We know in NR that 1) 1000 mg a day increases NAD+ over 100% thanks to Brenner's one week trial when he took 1000 mg for a week and published the results, 2) 1000 mg after 6 weeks increases NAD+ only 60% and 3) 500 mg a day increases NAD+ 90% 4 weeks in but drops to just 55% by week 8.

 

By the way, where did you see that Sinclair is taking 750 mg of NMN a day?   

 

 

Yes, there is some evidence that 500 mg may elevate NAD+ nearly as much as 1000 mg per day.

 

There is little evidence on the health benefit from 500 mg vs 1,000 mg per day.

 

I simply meant that taking more than 500 mg a day might be wasted $, or, it might provide more benefit.  I don't think there is clear evidence either way.

 

Had to search a bit to find where Dr Sinclair mentions his new protocol:

 

"I take 750 mg of NMN every morning, along with a gram of resveratrol and 500 mg of metformin."

 

 

https://www.linkedin...-david-sinclair


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#93 warner

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Posted 26 July 2018 - 02:34 PM

These additional reports from ABN site appear to confirm impression that, as might be expected, largest NMN effects are seen in those with greatest NAD deficits (whereas, for myself, 2 weeks of 375 mg/d sublingual have not yet produced any significant changes)...

 

Lisa Esberg Update 2018-06-28:

My mom has now been taking NMN for approx.. 4 weeks. She takes 3 pills a day and some extra when I or my sisters are with her.

It’s still the case that her memory and the way she can handle herself improves a great deal approx. 1 hour after she takes a pill (especially if it was several hours since she took the last one).
By a great deal I estimate 30% improvement compared to not taking them at all (although this has not been measured in any way). 
Before she started taking NMN it was really bad! She couldn’t speak in full sentences and most of what she said didn’t make sense at all. Now she speaks in full sentences and when she can’t find the word for it she explains around it. 

Example: Yesterday she wanted to say umbrella, but instead she said “the thing you use when it rains”. This would have been impossible for her to explain a few weeks ago. Now she takes walks around a nearby lake on her own (I have hidden a GPS tracker in her purse 1f609.png ;) Before, she wouldn´t even leave the apartment (or go out on the balcony) on her own as she was so scared of everything.
I have found the effect of NMN on her memory and behavior to be much related to the amount she takes. Yesterday I was with her and gave her 3 NMN within the time frame of 4-5 hours and found that to have a clear impact. It seems more is indeed better! 

Long term effect (in terms of partially curing her decease), meaning if she is still better if we would stop with the NMN, I don’t know. I wouldn’t dare to stop this protocol. But I do think that I see an improvement in the fact that she is slightly better than before even when it has been quite a few hours since she took her latest pill.

I have ordered a bottle cap with an alarm reminder. It can be set to give a beep for 10 sec on individual times. Once it arrives we will try to get her to take NMN on her own at closer intervals.

On Monday I think it will be possible to order the new NMN tablets from Europe. I think she will much prefer these compared to the pills 1f642.png :)
I’m curious to see what effect this will have on her AD.

nebilbehar says:

Thank you Bryan, we are a group of physicians in London over 40 who came across nmn last year and have been taking at very modest doses 100-250 mg daily in tablet form. We all felt the benefit but the older among us felt it more even at these doses. My mother was able to dance after being effectively bed bound for several years!
We want to give it to our older patients recovering from major surgery who suffer with sarcopenia but a trial is virtually impossible with all the red tape. Ordering from US is really impractical… we need it in pharmacies in UK to direct patients and relatives.
I completely agree sublingual and frequent doses are the way forward for now at least until slow release subcutaneous depot injections are invented or the epigenetic manipulation that allows us to produce it ourselves.
Is there any barrier to you bringing this product to UK shelves?

Many thanks
Nebil Behar
Consultant Laparoscopic and Emergency Surgeon Chelsea and Westminster hospital London UK

 


Edited by warner, 26 July 2018 - 02:34 PM.

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#94 Nate-2004

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 07:05 PM

Where are you guys getting NMN?


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#95 Phoebus

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 09:45 PM

Where are you guys getting NMN?

 

alivebynature is the main distributor. They have both pure NMN powder and sublingual 



#96 able

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 10:01 PM

alivebynature is the main distributor. They have both pure NMN powder and sublingual 

 

Most people say their sublingual tablets are too big.   

 

Someone posted on their facebook group that they have a new version of those coming next month that are 1/2 the size, so you might consider waiting for those.

 

I do love the pure powder though.



#97 Advocatus Diaboli

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 01:40 AM

able, re your post  #96-- Did the Facebook reference note whether or not the new tablet would contain the same amount of NMN as the old? Getting the size of a tablet down by 1/2, while still containing the same quantity of NMN (if it does), would seem to be quite a trick if it's true (can't tell from Amazon page) that the tablet NMN was "pure" (except, perhaps for the usual binders, etc. which probably don't constitute a significant percentage of the tablet, I suspect). The sample analyses shown on the Amazon web page are reports for powder and capsules. No analysis mentioned tablet. 

 

Has anyone here tried both the sublingual and the pure powder? Any taste differences? The Amazon web page says "fast dissolve". Any differences in dissolve time for those of you who have tried the sublingual tablet as well as having tried the powder sublingually? Differences in effects?



#98 able

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 02:06 AM

able, re your post  #96-- Did the Facebook reference note whether or not the new tablet would contain the same amount of NMN as the old? Getting the size of a tablet down by 1/2, while still containing the same quantity of NMN (if it does), would seem to be quite a trick if it's true (can't tell from Amazon page) that the tablet NMN was "pure" (except, perhaps for the usual binders, etc. which probably don't constitute a significant percentage of the tablet, I suspect). The sample analyses shown on the Amazon web page are reports for powder and capsules. No analysis mentioned tablet. 

 

Has anyone here tried both the sublingual and the pure powder? Any taste differences? The Amazon web page says "fast dissolve". Any differences in dissolve time for those of you who have tried the sublingual tablet as well as having tried the powder sublingually? Differences in effects?

 

I can't seem to find the post on their facebook group now - I don't know if they took it off or I am just overlooking it.

 

But they did say it would still be 125 Mg of NMN per capsule.  Someone on another thread here said they were 1 gram total.  I don't know they had an earlier batch, but I weighed mine at 750 mg.  A lot of binder, fillers, and other stuff that I guess the are able to do without.

 

The powder is slightly sour, but I got used to it pretty quick and like it now.  It dissolves in a few seconds. 

 

The tabs have too much Stevia in my opinion, and are a bit too sweet, and a chalky aftertaste, no doubt due to the excessive fillers/binders.  Definitely not "fast dissolve".  4-5 minutes if you don't move it around a bit.  I often bite it once to speed it up.  I know a long dissolve time is supposed to allow more absorption, but this version is WAY to slow imo.


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#99 LawrenceW

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 02:11 AM

If you are biting it, chewing it up or moving it around to dissolve it quicker, you may as well just take it orally. The trick with sublingual is to leave it in contact with the tissue under the tongue as long as possible.


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#100 able

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 02:49 AM

If you are biting it, chewing it up or moving it around to dissolve it quicker, you may as well just take it orally. The trick with sublingual is to leave it in contact with the tissue under the tongue as long as possible.

 

Yes, that is why I say a smaller, faster dissolve would be better.

 

But I'm not swallowing it - just bite it once to break it up and then leave it under the tongue so it takes 1-2 minutes instead of 4-5.

 

I have read some of the research about sublingual ( I think you posted) that said under the tongue is most effective, but other areas of the mouth also absorb some as well.  35% absorption from sublingual is best for sure, but even if you move it around too much and swallow a lot of it, 10% absorption still seems a lot better than all of it going thru stomach and intestines.


Edited by able, 28 July 2018 - 02:53 AM.

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#101 warner

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 11:59 AM

If you are biting it, chewing it up or moving it around to dissolve it quicker, you may as well just take it orally. The trick with sublingual is to leave it in contact with the tissue under the tongue as long as possible.

Yes, longer the better.  For both wife and self it takes about 15 minutes to dissolve completely (I reposition the tablet under the tongue a couple of times, but don't break it).  I doubt whether their faster, smaller pill will improve absorption.  Sounds more like they are responding to customer interest in speeding things up, rather than any scientific rationale, but perhaps Bryan (ABN) has in fact done his homework and will explain this better in a future post.


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#102 mrwhitee

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Posted 30 July 2018 - 04:48 AM

Yes, there is some evidence that 500 mg may elevate NAD+ nearly as much as 1000 mg per day.

 

There is little evidence on the health benefit from 500 mg vs 1,000 mg per day.

 

I simply meant that taking more than 500 mg a day might be wasted $, or, it might provide more benefit.  I don't think there is clear evidence either way.

 

Had to search a bit to find where Dr Sinclair mentions his new protocol:

 

"I take 750 mg of NMN every morning, along with a gram of resveratrol and 500 mg of metformin."

 

 

https://www.linkedin...-david-sinclair

 

Why the Metformin? Does it help the NMN or different reason?


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#103 warner

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Posted 30 July 2018 - 12:22 PM

(warner's NMN report #1)

As noted elsewhere, I switched from 250 mg/d NR to 375 mg/d sublingual NMN (3 x 125 mg, morning/aft/night) a few weeks ago.  Around the one month mark, I’ll return and report results for the params I’m tracking, but thought it best to discuss one issue that has arisen before it has a significant effect on results.

 
That issue is an apparent slight decrease in appetite (likely corresponding to reports by others of increased “energy”).  We (wife and I) have a pretty well-defined meal and snack routine, with nutrition (cal.s, macronutrients, minerals, etc.) tracked in spreadsheets, and with very few places where eating is discretionary.  The latter would include such things as the odd small piece of chocolate, the amount of peanut butter spread on toast, the exact amount of potato used with the brunch stir-fry, the size of snacks used to offset excess energy expended with lawn projects, etc.  I also control weight long-term by adding or removing ½ nutrition bar when weight is below or above a target range (near high end of normal BMI).
 
So what I’ve noticed lately is that the slightly decreased appetite is starting to affect my discretionary eating, easily reducing calorie intake by as much as 100 cal/d, which, for me, can result in roughly 10 lb* weight loss (fat and muscle) over the long run (other factors remaining unchanged).  (Which is also why the plus/minus ½ nutrition bar works to keep weight in a desired range.)
 
My first response to this was to resist eating any less, so as not to confound the experiment. :)  But on further reflection, I let my appetite rule (reducing calories a bit) -- the theory being that the NAD boost from NMN will allow me to live at a somewhat lower weight, without upping the risk that elderly folks otherwise have when their weights are below the high-end of normal BMI (i.e., increased frailty, bone loss, reduced disease resistance, etc.).  In other words, I may be able to live safely at a weight more appropriate for a younger adult.
 
So, as is often the case with diet/supplement schemes, the simplest explanation for any weight loss ends up being a small change in appetite and corresponding calorie intake.  Other possibilities include reduction in inflammation, reduction in glycogen stores (as seen w/ reduced carb intake), or a shift from fat to muscle mass (as seen w/ testosterone).  However, these would result in a different pattern of fat and muscle loss, which I can detect, given enough data.  For example, a shift from fat to muscle mass (for someone remaining in energy balance) would result in the loss of about 3 lb of fat for every 1 lb of muscle gained (because the ratio of maintenance energies for fat and lean mass remains near 3:1 over a wide range of conditions).  That’s quite different from losing both fat and muscle mass with calorie restriction, and can be easily distinguished if one is monitoring both weight and fat mass.  So, given enough data, perhaps I’ll be able to eventually say something about the nature of any weight loss in response to the NMN.
 
As might have been expected, this suggests that many of the benefits reported with NMN supplementation (in otherwise normal subjects) are related to weight reduction triggered by reduced appetite.  Hopefully, though, there’s more to it than that (else I’d have to increase calorie intake to maintain weight), and I’ll be able to maintain better health at a lower weight (i.e., w/o increased frailty-like risks w/ advancing age).
 
------------------------------------
* I lose/gain about 0.4 lb of lean mass and 0.6 lb of fat for each lb of wt loss/gain, and with maintenance energies of about 14 cal/lb of lean mass and 4.5 cal/lb of fat at a moderate activity level, so wt loss (x) per 100 calories should be about,
 
100 cal/d = (x lb)(0.4 lean lb/lb)(14 cal/lb/d) + (x lb)(0.6 fat lb/lb)(4.5 cal/lb/d)
x = 12 lb of combined lean and fat mass
 
which will vary with the activity level being maintained (weight maintained with less activity, for example, is actually easier to lose with calorie reduction than it is for a more active person, a surprise to many).

Edited by warner, 30 July 2018 - 12:31 PM.

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#104 Dstein

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Posted 30 July 2018 - 08:54 PM

Why the Metformin? Does it help the NMN or different reason?

 

Found this with a Google search:

 

Control of gluconeogenesis by metformin

metformin inhibits mitochondrial glycerol-3-phosphate dehydrogenase, triggering reduction of the cytosolic NADH/NAD+


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#105 mrwhitee

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Posted 30 July 2018 - 09:53 PM

Found this with a Google search:

 

Control of gluconeogenesis by metformin

metformin inhibits mitochondrial glycerol-3-phosphate dehydrogenase, triggering reduction of the cytosolic NADH/NAD+

 

Metformin is cheap but requires a prescription. It would be interesting to hear what Sinclair says about it as to whether he believes it to be synergistic with NMN, and to what degree.



#106 Gravitsapa

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Posted 30 July 2018 - 11:04 PM

Hi guys

I've been taking NR for six months. Suffering from fatigue. It seemed to help initially, but the effect became negligible soon.

Decided to try sublingual NMN after reading this thread and others. Has anyone ordered from Alive by Nature recently? I placed an order on 20 July and got a confirmation email. But no email since then regarding the order being shipped. I emailed and messaged the Facebook page four days ago - no response.

Any advice from personal experience? Is this absence of communication normal?

#107 Gravitsapa

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Posted 30 July 2018 - 11:27 PM

+ they just got back to me saying that there's a slight issue with Australia customs, but they will work it out soon.

Cant wait to start and will report my subjective comparison to NR.
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#108 Dstein

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Posted 31 July 2018 - 12:52 PM


Edited by Dstein, 31 July 2018 - 12:57 PM.


#109 Gravitsapa

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Posted 31 July 2018 - 10:48 PM

Thanks, Dstein, for reassuring. I'm hoping, they'll sort out the Ozzie orders soon.

While I'm waiting to start. Any recommendations/requests to measure any particular health markers?

I'm 36 years old, female, very low fitness stamina and problematic joints. Can only run for 2-3 minutes before I run out of steam.

Is there any general advice on how to track results from nmn?

#110 able

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 12:13 AM

I have posted some random bits here before, but thought I’d make a more complete report on recent experience with NR and NMN.

 

I had smoother skin, less blemishes and better hair when first taking NR a few years ago.  I seemed to have better energy and sleep also, but really hard to tell that from placebo.

 

Last November, I switched to NMN at a similar dose of 500-750 mg a day.   Over a few months, I experienced less joint pain, but not complete relief.  I can’t say for sure if the NMN had any different effect.

 

Around February, I started taking the NMN (and occasionally NR) sublingually.  That made  the most difference, with almost complete relief from knee, hip, and shoulder pain.  

 

I soon found I could ride or run as hard as I wanted without suffering soreness.  The shoulder and elbow pain that limited the weights I used faded away. I’ve been able to lift without worry for a few months, and have been doing as much as when I was young.

 

I really believe the inflammation throughout my body is vastly diminished.  Even the frequent bathroom trips at night are less and less.

 

One strange and unexpected change - the weird long black hairs that start growing from eyebrows, nose, and ears as we age - are totally gone!  Last month I pulled one out of my ears and surprisingly, it almost fell out, instead of a tug-of-war.  I pulled another, and it also almost fell out.  Looking around for more, I noticed there were none.  I guess they have been falling out for some time and I just didn’t notice!

 

I would note that over the last 3-4 months, I have increased to  1000-1500 mg a day, split between more frequent  dosages of 4-6 times a day.  

 

One possible negative I find, when I have tried 1500 to 2,000 mg a day.  After a week or so at higher dosage I get groggy/sleepy.  Pretty much all day long, my eyes feel tired - like I’ve been reading for hours.   It stops when I take a day or 2 off.  I’ve lowered the dose  and so far it hasn’t returned.  Any ideas on what that might be?   Maybe  need a methyl donor or something?

 

 
 

Edited by able, 01 August 2018 - 01:03 AM.

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#111 Heisok

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Posted 02 August 2018 - 07:25 PM

Hi Able,

 

maybe thinking about Turnbuckles experiences with Fission/Fusion; is it possible that the NMN has resulted in a skewing towards fission that the higher dose tips over some threshold? This could be a regular pulse of encouraged fission throughout the day, and night if I remember your dosing correctly. Maybe the day or 2 off gives the body a chance to find some sort of balance again? Maybe try some skewing towards fusion periodically if you try higher doses again? Maybe the lower dose does not push you too far one way or another, because you are healthy?

 

Able: "One possible negative I find, when I have tried 1500 to 2,000 mg a day.  After a week or so at higher dosage I get groggy/sleepy.  Pretty much all day long, my eyes feel tired - like I’ve been reading for hours.   It stops when I take a day or 2 off.  I’ve lowered the dose  and so far it hasn’t returned.  Any ideas on what that might be?   Maybe  need a methyl donor or something?"

 

https://www.longecit...ynamics/page-35

 

Turnbuckle in a recent post: "Cells get rid of damaged mitochondria naturally by swinging between fission and fusion. This protocol drives the natural process to extremes, and is for those who suspect they have damaged mitochondria that have gotten beyond the body's ability to get rid of them. For instance, those with mito damage from statin use might benefit from it. There is always a falloff in energy levels during fission, but this will be dramatic if you have a substantial population of damaged mitochondria, and as you cycle between fission and fusion repeatedly that will become less dramatic and finally barely noticeable. That's how you know you are done with it. Some might notice little difference from the beginning, and those will likely gain little from doing it. BP will likely vary, sometimes dramatically. Even when I was nearly done with it I still experienced a swing in BP between fission and fusion. Fusion was always higher, sometimes substantially higher at the beginning (which I controlled with an alpha blocker), while during fission it would sometimes drop to historic lows

 

After 20 days of taking NMN sublingual close to 10 times at a dose from about 60 mg to 100 plus mgs daily, my only personal experience to report is that when I take it first thing in the morning I get a mood/cognitive lift. I follow this by about 10 minutes later with coffee. If I take the NMN after the coffee, I get the same benefit. The reason this is so noticeable to me is that I have a very hard time getting going in the morning. I am a bit of an ogre for an hour or so for some reason. The NMN allows me to feel "normal", and get going for fun things to do within an hour. (Should this continue, it has such an improvement in my quality of life, and my relationship, then I will not stop this dose.) I had hoped to report other findings, but I had 2 bicycle accidents, and a surgical tooth extraction after starting the NMN.


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#112 Oakman

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 01:22 AM

On my 3rd day of higher dose NMN, and I've felt a marked change, at least judging by cycling performance. I'm taking both sublingual (while cycling) and powder. To total near 1000mg/day I've spread out doses, so sublingual riding, powder otherwise. Cycling was 32mi Tue and 27mi today. But today was a "holy crayola - what is happening?" fast ride! My typical steady state speed improved from a 14-16mph  to 17-19mph and occasionally 20+ mph. If you ride, you know even a single mph improvement is something. I had to check my cycling computer wasn't in km instead of miles (it wasn't).  

 

I take other supps for NAD+ and cycling, but this was different and coming along just with more NMN, well, does makes me wonder...and hoping this is the new reality, not just coincidence. Color me impressed.


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#113 Gravitsapa

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 09:42 AM

My nmn sublingual has arrived today!

First impression: tastes great. A bit like vitamin C crystals, but less acidic. Very easy to take. I dropped half a scoop under my tongue and my mouth immediately filled with saliva. The powder dissolved in seconds. Is this how everyone takes it?

My joints are terrible at the moment, I'm in constant pain all over (mechanical issues due to hypermobility). So, will report later if there's any relief.

#114 Oakman

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 12:23 PM

My nmn sublingual has arrived today!

First impression: tastes great. A bit like vitamin C crystals, but less acidic. Very easy to take. I dropped half a scoop under my tongue and my mouth immediately filled with saliva. The powder dissolved in seconds. Is this how everyone takes it?

My joints are terrible at the moment, I'm in constant pain all over (mechanical issues due to hypermobility). So, will report later if there's any relief.

 

I've noticed this rapid saliva increase too. It happens almost immediately taking the powder under the tongue. Tons of saliva.  The sublingual tabs don't do this. I wonder what in the plain powder cause this?



#115 Gravitsapa

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 12:32 PM

Hi Oakman (how do people reply with quotes, I don't see that option) I think the saliva is just a normal response to the sour taste of the powder. I mean, I get saliva just tgin

#116 Gravitsapa

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 12:34 PM

Sorry. I get saliva just thinking about a lemon. It doesn't surprise me that I get it in response to nmn. The question is, is rapid absorbtion due to excess saliva good or bad?

#117 Oakman

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 01:40 PM

You need more posts under your belt mate to see the 'quote' button I think. And good question, but I don't know either!



#118 AliceTu

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 03:16 PM

Just got my ABN Sublingual Bio NMN. About 1/4 of the tabs were in shards. Fortunately, alivebynature folks are awesome, and they offered to replace or refund.

While I had their attention, I pointed out that "fast dissolve" is a flaw, not a feature. In their response, they agreed, saying that they are modifying the product to be a slower dissolve, which will also make it more likely to survive transit.

In short, ABN folks continue to be excellent partners in my biochemistry N=1 research, and perhaps in yours as well. They are highly responsive and have repeatedly treated me well. Five stars. :)

As for the effects of the NMN sub NMN, well, I have been using powder under my tongue for some time, and the difference in exposure time to oral mucosa between the powder and the fast-dissolve is, IMO, for me, negligible. That is, not much difference, beyond the arguable convenience of the sublingual tab over powder. But the tabs have the sorbitol sweetener... ick.  Nothing wrong with the basic taste of NMN, if you ask me. I told ABN I would pay extra for a sublingual that didn't have additives -- if you think the same, tell them so. They listen.


 



#119 mikela

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 05:20 PM

My understanding is that the Stevia molecule helps facilitate sublingual transfer of the NMN although I can no longer find the reference.

 

 



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#120 AliceTu

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 06:44 PM

My understanding is that the Stevia molecule helps facilitate sublingual transfer of the NMN although I can no longer find the reference.

I'd be interested in that ref, if you find it. In any case, these tabs do not list Stevia in the ingredients.







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