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Nicotinamide Mononucleotide (NMN) personal experience thread

nmn nicotinamide mononucleotide

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#241 Pirateer

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 03:54 PM

Howdy all,

 

It is mine and a friend's experience with NMN that it was noticeably good compared to NR or NAM + R and that sublingual dosing was more effective than oral dosing. Whilst our micro consortium of 2 is awaiting our shipment of NAD powder, we have been trying both NR sublingually as well as NAM + R sublingually. NR subjectively kind of "feels" similar to NAM + R as a sublingual in terms of effect. I intend to make NAM + R the backbone or filler if you like and top it off with NAD powder both taken as a sublingual. It's bitter but the Ribose smooths it out and I do 2:1 Ribose to NAM. I try and max out my sublinguals. Minimum 10 to 20 minutes swishing around under the tongue and around mouth. Just upped my dose today to 1.5g NAM to 3g Ribose and was pretty good.



#242 midas

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 04:07 PM

Hello

 

They also claim that any oral precursors are a hoax claiming only a small amount of absorption.

 

I find this claim bizarre, both Chromadex, Elysium Health and independent research in Colorado have show that Nr has shown to increase NAD by 60% at reasonably small doses..??


Edited by midas, 12 November 2018 - 04:08 PM.

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#243 Hebbeh

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 04:38 PM

I find this claim bizarre, both Chromadex, Elysium Health and independent research in Colorado have show that Nr has shown to increase NAD by 60% at reasonably small doses..??

 

60% increase in the blood?  And what real benefit is this?  The results pitched out by vested interests are misleading at best.  Proof of real benefit for the vast majority of us is skimpy at best.  And make no mistake, there has been no independent research.


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#244 Harkijn

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 04:45 PM

60% increase in the blood?  And what real benefit is this?  The results pitched out by vested interests are misleading at best.  Proof of real benefit for the vast majority of us is skimpy at best.  And make no mistake, there has been no independent research.

I think there is consensus that chronically low NAD+ in blood, liver or any body part is a very bad thing. So even if NAD is only raised in the blood and/or liver for a limited time after supplementation  I would be very glad indeed.


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#245 midas

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 04:50 PM

60% increase in the blood?  And what real benefit is this?  The results pitched out by vested interests are misleading at best.  Proof of real benefit for the vast majority of us is skimpy at best.  And make no mistake, there has been no independent research.

 

"And make no mistake, there has been no independent research"..............Oh really!

 

https://www.nature.c...467-018-03421-7

 

This is more than we have on NMN. I am still waiting for some sort of evidence that NMN is actually raising NAD in blood or otherwise?


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#246 Hebbeh

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 04:56 PM

I think there is consensus that chronically low NAD+ in blood, liver or any body part is a very bad thing. So even if NAD is only raised in the blood and/or liver for a limited time after supplementation  I would be very glad indeed.

 

What is considered chronically low NAD+ and who among us really has chronically low NAD+?  And does boosting NAD+ in the blood really provide any benefits?  Venders literature claimed NAD+ can not cross the cell membrane.  The "science" of NAD+ precursor supplementation has come from the vested venders and studies have been tilted to favor the flavor of the day.  True comparisons have never been done apples to apples.  Why?  Vested interests to skew the available science and pitch a product?


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#247 Hebbeh

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 04:59 PM

"And make no mistake, there has been no independent research"..............Oh really!

 

https://www.nature.c...467-018-03421-7

 

This is more than we have on NMN. I am still waiting for some sort of evidence that NMN is actually raising NAD in blood or otherwise?

 

Really?????

 

partial funding support were provided by ChromaDex, Inc.

 


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#248 Harkijn

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 05:06 PM

What is considered chronically low NAD+ and who among us really has chronically low NAD+?  And does boosting NAD+ in the blood really provide any benefits? 

To answer these questions please read the Trammel study and the paper that was the basis of this earlier  thread:

https://www.longecit...nad-modulation/


Edited by Harkijn, 12 November 2018 - 05:07 PM.

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#249 PAMPAGUY

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 06:36 PM

Here is something to think about.  Dr. Peter Attia just had a podcast with Dr. Sinclair and he argues that NR, NMN and all NAD precussors raise the NAD levels, but the NAD never gets out of the liver into the mitochondria.  Feels it is a waste of money and time to take precussors orally thru the digestive track.  Operative word is ORAL.

 

Needs to go into blood stream either IV or Sublingual.

 

Two separate Podcasts by Dr. Attia.

  

Sinclair interview with Dr. Attia  in September, but released on 11-05-18          https://peterattiamd.../davidsinclair/

  •  

Have also included the latest unbiased study with trackers following the precussors through the body.  Precussors only get to liver and not anywhere else.  Not funded by parties who make money from the sale of precussors.  This study was not out when Dr. Sinclair was interviewed or Dr. Attia would have brought it up.

 

https://www.scienced...01967?via=ihub=

 

Use https://sci-hub.tw/ to unlock

 

 

 

Been using N+R with Sublingual delivery for 1 week following this protocol.  https://alivebynatur...elivery-method/    They are using Sublingual delivery for NAD and NMN. (Mix powder with water, pour into plastic squirt bottle, and delivery under tongue multiple times a day.)

Seems to be working better than oral N+R for over 1 year.  Will report back

 


Edited by PAMPAGUY, 12 November 2018 - 06:58 PM.

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#250 able

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 07:36 PM

seescaper, on 05 Nov 2018 - 5:11 PM, said:snapback.png

Hello

 

They also claim that any oral precursors are a hoax claiming only a small amount of absorption.

 

 
 

I find this claim bizarre, both Chromadex, Elysium Health and independent research in Colorado have show that Nr has shown to increase NAD by 60% at reasonably small doses..??

 

I believe seescaper may be paraphrasing something - I haven't noticed where ABN calls NR a hoax.  But they do point out that the Liu study shows no oral NR or NMN survive past the stomach/liver to make it intact into the bloodstream.

 

The Colorado study measures 60% increase of NAD+ in the liver (dropping to 40% at 60 days).  

 

Elysium study shows increase of NAD+ in the bloodstream.  

 

But neither show that it is from intact NR, instead of NR metabolized to NAM before excreting from the liver as Liu study says.


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#251 stefan_001

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 08:17 PM

Whu borther bashing NR here? Its an NMN thread right?
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#252 midas

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 01:21 AM

Really?????

 

"partial funding support were provided by ChromaDex, Inc."

The actual full sentence is this..."Study pills, NR standards for metabolite analyses and partial funding support were provided by ChromaDex, Inc."

You selected the part that suited your bias!......Also we have "The authors declare no competing interests."

 

 

 

So, Chromadex being the supplier of  the Nr (as they are the only supplier)

 

Thre is ongoing worlwide research on Nr, they are not researching it for the sheer hell of it. It has been proven on several occassions to raise NAD whether you like it or not..

You put down Nr when we have concrete evidence.....Show me the same evidence for NMN???

 

 

 

Also of interest.....https://www.scienced...211124718316127


Edited by midas, 13 November 2018 - 01:40 AM.

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#253 midas

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 01:25 AM

Whu borther bashing NR here? Its an NMN thread right?

 

Both supposedly precursors of NAD, I don't see the problem with that.

They overlap, and some of us just don't have the time or inclination to chase all over this website trying to keep up with everything in far to many threads/topis on the same subject (NAD precursors)


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#254 Hebbeh

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 02:56 AM

"partial funding support were provided by ChromaDex, Inc."

The actual full sentence is this..."Study pills, NR standards for metabolite analyses and partial funding support were provided by ChromaDex, Inc."

You selected the part that suited your bias!......Also we have "The authors declare no competing interests."

 

 

 

So, Chromadex being the supplier of  the Nr (as they are the only supplier)

 

Thre is ongoing worlwide research on Nr, they are not researching it for the sheer hell of it. It has been proven on several occassions to raise NAD whether you like it or not..

You put down Nr when we have concrete evidence.....Show me the same evidence for NMN???

 

 

 

Also of interest.....https://www.scienced...211124718316127

 

Ummm no.  "Study pills, NR standards for metabolite analyses and partial funding support were provided by ChromaDex, Inc." means just what it says.  ChromaDex suppled all 3... pills, standards, AND partial funding.  What is difficult about (the definition of "and")?  No cherry picking, exactly what it says.  No need to try and twist it.  And as far as no competing interest... what does that even mean... ChromaDex was obviously the motivating driver behind this study.  And just like all the other studies, it was designed for an end result.  Gullible is the thought that comes to mind.  I like how ChromaDex pushed the oral availability of NR in their studies and now the experts say it has no oral availability.  And what does that mean for any supposed increase in NAD?  And as far as "whether I like it or not", I could care less other than to stop the self-serving mis-imformation.  ChromaDex has no credibility or moral standings.


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#255 irony

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 04:42 AM

been taking NMN sublingual for about 4 weeks now, 250-500mg/day

 

Haven't noticed anything - what effects should be noticeable ?



#256 PAMPAGUY

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 06:30 AM

been taking NMN sublingual for about 4 weeks now, 250-500mg/day

 

Haven't noticed anything - what effects should be noticeable ?

 

Try this protocol and see how it works.  With smaller delivery though out the day.   I personally believe that Sublingual administration is the way to go just as you are using, but with some tweaks.  Some people are also using NAD from ABN (Alive by Nature) Sublingual, but in smaller doses.  No reason that I can see that N+R would not work also as a Sublingual precussor.  It would seem that you should get a very noticeable boost in energy, if you are older.  You never said how old you were, because younger people under 50 still have substantial amounts of NAD in there cells.

 

 

It would seem that the gastrointestinal track (oral) delivery is not a very good way to get the NMN into your cells where is can stimulate the production of NAD.  Directly into blood stream bypasses the liver, and delivers it into the mitochondria (cell) where it is needed.  The Alive by Nature website, says that small doses (125mg) through out the day is more effective than larger doses once or twice a day.   Some people were crushing the tablets and taking Sublingual, until they could get some powder.  Best delivery is to mix powder with water in a  squirt bottle and squirt under tongue 4-12 times a day.   https://alivebynatur...elivery-method/


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#257 MikeDC

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 01:37 AM

Has anyone taking NMN noticed changes such as younger skin, grey hair turning black, lower blood pressure, lower cholesterol, lower triglycerides, etc. things that are beyond just feel good.
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#258 seescaper

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 05:03 PM

Those in this thread might be interested in this review:

 

http://www.anti-agin...ntation-coming/



#259 Harkijn

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 08:39 PM

Thanks for reminding us of this review seescaper. It is from last January but still a very useful overview. I suppose we are all looking forward to the next sequel because of this reviews cliffhanger. Guliano considers a sequel explaining

'why NR/NMN/NAD+ will not stop aging.'



#260 stefan_001

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 09:57 PM

Thanks for reminding us of this review seescaper. It is from last January but still a very useful overview. I suppose we are all looking forward to the next sequel because of this reviews cliffhanger. Guliano considers a sequel explaining

'why NR/NMN/NAD+ will not stop aging.'

 

I am not that impressed with his blogs, I would strongly recommend him to start using NR/NMN. He looks his age. I would be more curious about a followup to this blogpost and that be would include the pictures he said he would post then:

http://www.anti-agin...working-for-me/


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#261 MikeDC

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 10:54 PM

Thanks for reminding us of this review seescaper. It is from last January but still a very useful overview. I suppose we are all looking forward to the next sequel because of this reviews cliffhanger. Guliano considers a sequel explaining
'why NR/NMN/NAD+ will not stop aging.'


Of course NR/NMN/NAD+ will not stop ageing forever. The ageing from 20 to 40 progressed with relatively high levels of NAD+. But NR/NMN/NAD+ will reduce the rate of ageing and turn the exponential ageing curve after 40 to linear like from 20 to 40. Senolytics and in vivo conversion of normal cells to stem cells will help extend lifespan significantly.
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#262 Harkijn

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 06:53 AM

Well, let's just wait and see.Through the years I have come to appreciate his views  and often read up on his sources. 

@Stefan, Giuliano at some moment has stated that NR is part of his regimen.



#263 stefan_001

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 07:52 AM

Well, let's just wait and see.Through the years I have come to appreciate his views  and often read up on his sources. 

@Stefan, Giuliano at some moment has stated that NR is part of his regimen.

 

Aha did he, at some point I remember he wrote something to the effect that the homeostatic effect was likely more negative overall than positive. I found that a rash conclusion. He is clearly a smart person with deep knowledge but doesnt distill down the complexity into something that is workeable.
 


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#264 hd98

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 11:52 AM

Has anyone taking NMN noticed changes such as younger skin, grey hair turning black, lower blood pressure, lower cholesterol, lower triglycerides, etc. things that are beyond just feel good.

 

Lower Cholesterol and triglyceride. But been mainly on NR. Only swapped over to NMN from time to time just to have variety and to compare the two.


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#265 ceridwen

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 01:47 PM

If you have lower cholesterol that might indicate better repair mechanisms in that higher levels are not needed
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#266 LawrenceW

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 07:42 PM

Formatting lost.  I will repost shortly.


Edited by LawrenceW, 27 December 2018 - 07:43 PM.


#267 LawrenceW

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 09:04 PM

It has been awhile since my last post on my personal NMN experience. I have been quietly continuing my experimenting with NMN dosing and application methods. I am sharing this information on an informal basis and it is not to be taken as any kind of medical recommendation or advice.

 

Below is my updated NMN log.

 

Start Date                  End Date       Duration        Product          MG Dose       Daily Freq.     Daily dose            Admin.           Result

 

July 11, 2015             May 5, 2016    10 months   NMN w/Act.   3,400              2                      6,800              Liquid             Good

 

May 6, 2016              May 21, 2017 12.5 months NONE                                                                                                         Arthritis

 

May 22, 2017            Aug. 28, 2017  3 months    Niagen NR    500                 2                      1,000               Capsule         Arthritis

 

Aug. 29, 2017           Sept. 21, 2017  1 month     NONE                                                                                                            Arthritis

 

Sept. 22, 2017          Dec. 21, 2017   3 months     NMN w/Act.   1,600              2                      3,200              Liquid             Good

 

Dec. 22, 2017           Apr. 26, 2018   4 months    NMN w/Act.   750                 2                      1,500              Liquid             Good

 

Apr. 27, 2018            May 8, 2018     2 weeks      NMN w/Act.   500                 2                      1,000              Sublingual     Good

 

May 9, 2018             June 3,2018     1 month      NMN w/Act.   500                 1                         500              Sublingual     Arthritis

 

June 4, 2018             June 24, 2018   3 weeks    NMN w/Act.   500                 2                      1,000              Oral tablet      Good

 

June 25, 2018           June 30, 2018    5 days      NMN w/Act.   25                    8                         200              Sublingual     Arthritis

 

July 1, 2018              July 18, 2018    2.5 weeks  NMN w/Act.   500                 2                      1,000              Oral tablet      Good

 

July 19, 2018             Sept. 24, 2018   2 months  NMN w/Act.   50                    7                         350              Sublingual     Good

 

Sept. 25, 2018          Oct.14, 2018    3 weeks      NAD+ w/Act. 50                    8                         400              Sublingual     Good

 

Oct. 15, 2018            Nov. 15, 2018   1 month     NMN w/Act.   30                    8                         240              Sublingual     Good

 

Nov. 16, 2018           Dec. 2, 2018    3 weeks      NMN only      30                    8                         240              Sublingual     Good

 

Dec. 3, 2018                                                        NMN w/Act.   400                 2                         800              Oral tablet

Dec. 3, 2018                                                        NMN w/Act.   30                    6                         180              Sublingual

 

 

 

 

 

So that more recent viewers will not have to reread this entire thread, I will recap. Early in 2014 a group of 7 males, aged 45 to 66, decided that we would do a group buy of NMN.  Our designated lead guinea pig is a molecular biologist and he began taking NMN late in 2014.  

 

In the beginning we monitored his blood work with monthly full panel blood tests performed by LabCorp.  We believed that inflammation levels were a good indicator of health and aging, so we added two inflammation tests to the standard panel.  The inflammation markers that we tracked were; C-Reactive Protein, (CRP), Tumor Necrosis Factor-Alpha (TNF-α) and Interleukin-6 (IL-6).  As he began the NMN dosing (3,500 mgs of NMN twice per day) we noted a steady increase of inflammation peaking at week 4, followed by a significant decline to the lowest inflammation levels at month 2 and then a steady rise that stabilized by month 6 at a slight improvement to his baseline inflammation numbers.

 

NMN study participant #1, age 61

 

                                                Baseline        Month 1          Month 2          Month 3          Month 6

           12/7/2014

 

C-Reactive Protein  mg/L          2.77                3.25                0.43                0.53                0.85

 

TNF-α                         pg/L        1.10                0.90                1.10                1.10                1.00

 

IL-6                             pg/L        1.30                4.40                <0.7                0.90                3.10

 

Total Inflammation Score           5.17                8.55                1.53                2.53                4.95

 

We theorized as follows: During the 1st month the NMN had activated all of the Sirtuins and they had gotten busy with all of their long neglected biological “housekeeping” functions. The inflammation levels rose to get this accomplished.  Once the Sirtuins had gotten everything in order, the inflammation levels dropped to their low point at the end of month 2.  We attributed the slow and steady rise back to the baseline inflammation levels at month 6 to a homeostatic negative biological feedback loop kicking in.

 

                                               

 

While his inflammation level was rising, we researched the issue and came up with a theory as to why that was happening. Our theory was that the increase of activity by Sirtuins was out of balance with the other anti-aging pathways and the body was reacting by shutting down the Sirtuin activity brought on by the increased level of NMN.  We theorized that by activating 2 other major anti-aging pathways (mTOR and AMPK) that we may activate all 3 of these anti-aging pathways in a balanced manner thereby achieving a sustained homeostasis.  We added 2 compounds to our NMN and awaited the results.

 

NMN study participant #1, age 61

 

                                                Baseline        Month 1          Month 2          Month 3          Month 6            Month 7          Month 8

          12/7/2014

 

C-Reactive Protein  mg/L          2.77                3.25                0.43                0.53                0.85                0.21                 0.40

 

TNF-α                         pg/L        1.10                0.90                1.10                1.10                1.00                0.50                 0.30

 

IL-6                             pg/L        1.30                4.40                <0.7                0.90                3.10                <0.7                 <0.7

 

Total Inflammation Score          5.17                8.55                1.53                2.53                4.95                1.40                  1.40

 

 

We were very pleased with results and the other 6 members began taking NMN along with the 2 other compounds.  All of our blood tests have showed the same dramatic and sustained decrease of inflammation. Since that time we have continued to research and experiment by adding and/or replacing compounds and adjusting their ratios to each other. In our current iteration we are using a 5 compound formulation to activate a total of 9 anti-aging pathways that sustains the NMN activation at its peak anti-inflammation levels.

 

On July 29, 2015 Yasumichi Arai published Inflammation, But Not Telomere Length, Predicts Successful Ageing at Extreme Old Age: A Longitudinal Study of Semi-supercentenarians in which the author wrote, “We conclude that inflammation is an important malleable driver of ageing up to extreme old age in humans.”   Furthermore, “Together, our results suggest suppression of chronic inflammation as a major determinant of successful longevity, which is relevant over a very wide age range up to extreme old age.” And, “Our results suggest that the development of more sophisticated and safer anti-inflammatory strategies could be an essential step towards the prevention of human premature ageing.” And finally, “Despite these limitations, our study showed that over a very wide age range from 45 to 115 years, including unprecedentedly large numbers of the extremely old, inflammation is an important driver of ageing that might be amenable to future pharmacological intervention. Accordingly, designing novel, safe anti-inflammatory or immune-modulating medication has major potential to improve healthy lifespan.”

 

We believe that the answer to Dr. Arai’s quest is NMN.

 

Reviewing my various dosing regimens since my last post.

 

July 1, 2018              July 18, 2018    2.5 weeks  NMN w/Act.   500                 2                      1,000              Oral tablet      Good

 

500 mg twice per day of oral tablet NMN with activator worked just fine.

 

 

July 19, 2018             Sept. 24, 2018   2 months  NMN w/Act.   50                    7                         350              Sublingual     Good

 

Put together some 50 mg NMN sublinguals and took 7 of them per day a minimum of 1 hr. apart.  We capsuled up the activator and took the entire daily dose 1st thing in the morning.  The results were equal to the 1,000 mg/day of oral tablets.

 

 

Sept. 25, 2018          Oct.14, 2018    3 weeks      NAD+ w/Act. 50                    8                         400              Sublingual     Good

 

Got some 99.1% purity NAD+ and tabletted it up for sublingual use. I took 8 per day a minimum of 1 hour apart and took the activator dose first thing in the morning. Made enough for a 1-month supply but the arthritis came back so strongly that I quit taking the NAD+ after 3 weeks. This result was very surprising as our quest, as I understood it, was to raise NAD+ in the blood levels.  Upon reviewing numerous research documents, I now believe that our quest is to raise intracellular NAD+ levels.

 

 

Oct. 15, 2018            Nov. 15, 2018   1 month     NMN w/Act.   30                    8                         240              Sublingual     Good

 

After researching as much as we could on sublingual dosing, saturation limits and cross membrane transport times we have come to believe that NMN is a great candidate for sublingual dosing.  We also believe that the saturation limit is 15 to 25 mgs per application and the transport time is somewhere around 45 minutes.  To test that theory we put together some 30 mg NMN sublinguals and took 8 per day with a minimum of 1 hour between dosings.  I also took the daily activator dose first thing in the morning. After 1 month of this regimen we found that the resulting benefits were the same as the 50 mg, 7 times per day regimen.

 

 

Nov. 16, 2018           Dec. 2, 2018    3 weeks      NMN only      30                    8                         240              Sublingual     Good

 

Tried the same 30 mg NMN sublingual 8 times per day but without the activator and found that my arthritis had returned by the 3rd week.

 

 

Dec. 3, 2018                                                             NMN w/Act.   400                 2                         800              Oral tablet

Dec. 3, 2018                                                             NMN w/Act.   30                    6                         180              Sublingual

 

 

I have now started on what I believe will be my personal maximum benefits for minimum NMN dosing regimen. 400 mg of oral NMN with the activator twice per day interspersed with sublingual NMN 6 times per day.  I will be going in for my full blood test after 3 months of this regimen.  I will post the results when I receive them.

 


  • Informative x 7

#268 Oakman

  • Location:CO

Posted 27 December 2018 - 10:41 PM

^ Impressive and informative. But one question, what is 'the activator'? Thanks!


  • Good Point x 1

#269 Andey

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 07:45 PM

 

We were very pleased with results and the other 6 members began taking NMN along with the 2 other compounds.  All of our blood tests have showed the same dramatic and sustained decrease of inflammation. Since that time we have continued to research and experiment by adding and/or replacing compounds and adjusting their ratios to each other. In our current iteration we are using a 5 compound formulation to activate a total of 9 anti-aging pathways that sustains the NMN activation at its peak anti-inflammation levels.

 

 

 

  Can you share those 2-5 compounds and a rationale behind them?

Very interested as my inflammation markers are suboptimal to say the least


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#270 stefan_001

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 09:29 PM

Compounds = polyphenols such as curcumin, luteolin etc?


Edited by stefan_001, 28 December 2018 - 09:30 PM.






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