2503 replies to this topic

[Turnbuckle]

 

Turnbuckle, I think you are wrong. Stem cells will not be able to remodel the old extracellular matrix. There is no way they can remove the glucosepane cross-links. 

 

You got the pressure under control by remodeling the receptors and some areas of the brain. But you've hardly reduced vascular stiffness.

 

I concede that the stem cells may have helped in part with elastin production. Then maybe. Although I highly doubt it could help your pulse pressure.

 

What is your current pulse pressure? I think you are making a big mistake in thinking that stem cells can solve your pulse pressure problems.

 

 

I'm not saying that stem cells per se can remodel fibrotic tissue. I'm saying that cells are constantly remodeling the ECM in which they reside, and if those cells are healthy and epigenetically young, then fibrosis shouldn't occur to begin with.

 

To answer your question about pulse pressure, my PP just now was 41.

 

And given that you keep pushing this ECM idea, do tell us (hopefully without getting this thread off track) what supplements or methods you personally use to remodel "old extracellular matrix."

[mbdrinker]

I would offer another theory. Since with age number of cell division decreases there becomes pure lack of cells which you observe as body shrinkage. It occurs also with bone thickness and strength. Skulls of old people shrink quite noticeably and height decreases. In order to compensate for lack of cells your clever body being definitely cleverer than you changes structure of collagen including increase of glucozepane portion. What you trying to do is kind of fixing broken wrist watch by a hammer. Supps themselves are just chemicals that you propose to the body and the body decides how to manage them. I look younger than rich people from putin's circles in spite of their access to botox and quality food. If you stay with light forces it may help your body to manage chemicals in a better way. 

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 10 June 2022 - 01:20 PM.

[Empiricus]

I might substitute 2-3 grams AKG for AAKG if that's all I have available. I wonder if taking 1 gram AKG every 20 minutes would compensate for AKG acting faster.

 

Are there any foods to avoid during the protocol?  

 

Might some moderate exercise on the mito fission days (days 2 and 3), following intake of the supplements, improve results?

[Empiricus]

Plunged into this Turnbuckle protocol Friday.  First, instead of brownies I made hot chocolate with glycerol monostearate, consuming the dihydromyrocetin separately (to preserve the taste of the hot chocolate).  As it was getting late, only 1.5 hours later I chugged "PureC60OliveOil" along with all the powdered ingredients on the fusion list. I took the liposomal glutathione separately in a shot glass (I had also included 1000 mg of Thorne Glutathione-SR in the c60 mix).  Fell asleep quickly, but I awoke within a couple hours due to a nightmare. All I remember was screaming continuously but not making any sound. Maybe not waiting 4 hours was a mistake.  BTW, why should we wait 4 hours, doesn't stearic acid get absorbed quickly?

 

The next day I experienced the usual c60oo glow. In the afternoon took the fission ingredients and exercised.  As to be expected, strength and stamina were not high.  

 

I live in an equatorial region, so avoiding sunlight is difficult.  Turnbuckle recommended to take the c60 in the eventing. Though I took the potion in the dark of night, walking under the blazing sun the next morning, I wondered whether it might be advisable to avoid sunlight within even 24 or 48 hours of consuming c60...  

Edited by Empiricus, 02 July 2022 - 08:51 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

 BTW, why should we wait 4 hours, doesn't stearic acid get absorbed quickly?

 

 

Stearic acid as the triglyceride or FFA is a waxy material with a melting point above body temp, and thus dissolves very slowly--and maybe not at all if you don't bake it into a brownie. The monoglyceride GMS, by contrast,  dissolves quickly. Using the latter, I throw everything in a blender (Nutrabullet) with a slug of orange flavoring. The dihydromyricetin doesn't do great things for the taste, but an immortality elixir is not supposed to be great tasting.

[Perunyol]

Stearic acid as the triglyceride or FFA is a waxy material with a melting point above body temp, and thus dissolves very slowly--and maybe not at all if you don't bake it into a brownie. The monoglyceride GMS, by contrast,  dissolves quickly. Using the latter, I throw everything in a blender (Nutrabullet) with a slug of orange flavoring. The dihydromyricetin doesn't do great things for the taste, but an immortality elixir is not supposed to be great tasting.

 

How much GMS, the same 8 to 10 grs ?

 

Thank you

[Turnbuckle]

How much GMS, the same 8 to 10 grs ?

 

Thank you

 

No. More like 1-2 grams. I typically use 2g with 3-5g DM. The onset of GMS is rapid, so be careful with it if you have high blood pressure. If you do have a problem, leave it off and just use the DM.

[Danniel]

Wait a minute! Is this true? Were we supposed to take the Turnbuckle's protocols in the evening? Why?

I always take them in the morning, after a 12h fast, with a few hours till the first meal (since the last step is fast acting).

How wrong is that?

 

Turnbuckle recommended to take the c60 in the evening. Though I took the potion in the dark of night, walking under the blazing sun the next morning, I wondered whether it might be advisable to avoid sunlight within even 24 or 48 hours of consuming c60...  

 

 

 

Edited by Danniel, 05 July 2022 - 04:14 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

 

Wait a minute! Is this true? Were we supposed to take the Turnbuckle's protocols in the evening? Why?

I always take them in the morning, after a 12h fast, with a few hours till the first meal (since the last step is fast acting).

How wrong is that?

Turnbuckle recommended to take the c60 in the evening. Though I took the potion in the dark of night, walking under the blazing sun the next morning, I wondered whether it might be advisable to avoid sunlight within even 24 or 48 hours of consuming c60...  

 

 

 

I don't recommend lying out in the sun after treatment, but I've not noted any problem with taking it in the morning. Nevertheless, C60 is indeed light sensitive, so it's best to be cautious, especially with storage. My own experiments have shown that even red light can produce ROS, thus I keep mine in aluminum containers in the freezer.

 

Moussa (who was lead investigator in the original rat study) had previously found that C60 was nontoxic, but that derivatives could be very toxic. Moody (who tried to duplicate Moussa's work) also noted that C60 derivatives were potentially dangerous: "We additionally find that pristine C60-OO causes no acute toxicity in a rodent model but does form toxic species that can cause significant morbidity and mortality in mice in under 2 weeks when exposed to light levels consistent with ambient light."

 

He's not talking about C60 in a human body, but a C60 solution exposed to light and then injected into mice.

 

Freshly prepared C60-OO was irradiated with the light of a full daylight spectrum 32 W fluorescent bulb (380–700 nm range) for 8 days. Samples were exposed to at least 70,000 Lux light intensity as measured by an Extech-LT40 light meter. Aliquots of C60-OO were drawn on 0, 2, 4, 6, and 8 days of light exposure and were assayed for C60 content by HPLC then stored in the dark. Samples of C60-OO under varying degrees of light exposure and a control sample of light irradiated olive oil were then sterile filtered and delivered via single IP injections to age matched male C57BL6/J mice (n = 4) at 4 mg/kg (2.85 mL/kg, ~ 57 μL/20 gram average weight) dosages of the original C60 content. Animals were monitored for their survival rates over 14 days...A significant effect was seen on the interaction of weight and time with the experimental group which received C60-OO which had been exposed to illumination for 8 days (p < 0.05) by a repeated measured mixed effect model. No other group demonstrated significant weight loss compared to the control group, which received olive oil which had received 8 days of illuminated prior to injection. (Supplementary Figure 2, panel A). As expected, neither olive oil alone nor pristine C60-OO at 0 and 2 days showed toxicity. However, at 4, 6, and 8 days, 25%, 50%, and 25% of the mice died, respectively, indicating a light-dependent cause of mortality...

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC8110650/

 

 

 

Note that 2 days of light exposure did not create a problem, but 4-8 days did.

 

Unlike Moussa, Moody didn't find any longevity enhancement with C60, however he didn't employ fusion. As I've noted before, the original Moussa longevity experiments likely used the same overnight fasting protocol they used for their toxicity study, though they failed to mention it, probably thinking it not important. Small rodents have a metabolic rate 6 times higher than humans, so this fasting was probably enough to generate a fusion state.

​

 

Edited by Turnbuckle, 05 July 2022 - 04:40 PM.

[kurt9]

Is C60 sold in dark containers such that it is not exposed to light?

[Turnbuckle]

Is C60 sold in dark containers such that it is not exposed to light?

 

Red light readily penetrates amber bottles, so best to keep it in a dark place.

[Empiricus]

What is the rationale for 1 teaspoon (4.9 ml) of c60oo instead of a lower amount?  Is there any reason to believe 1 ml wouldn't be sufficient for our purposes?   Has anyone calculated how many molecules of c60 a teaspoon of olive oil would contain?  Would it exceed the number of cell receptor sites for the c60 molecule?  

 

One benefit of consuming no more c60oo than necessary would be reduced exposure to impurities, including solvents and toxic cousins of c60.  For example, I notice my commercial c60oo brew is made with cheaper 99.95% c60 (rather than the 99.99% variety), so the amount of impurities I'm consuming might not be negligible.  (However, by only consuming 1 ml of 99.95% c60, theoretically you'd be getting no more impurities than would be contained in one teaspoon (approximately 5 ml) of 99.99% c60).  

 

As I seem to be allergic to concentrated olive polyphenols (olive leaves, extract capsules, etc), is there any reason to believe c60 potentiates these polyphenols?  Reducing the dose of c60oo might be advantageous to overly sensitive people, if a whole teaspoon is in excess of what's required.

 

I suppose a related question is whether under-dosing at higher frequency is more effective than getting blasted at lower frequency.  

Edited by Empiricus, 06 July 2022 - 11:08 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

What is the rationale for 1 teaspoon (4.9 ml) of c60oo instead of a lower amount?  Is there any reason to believe 1 ml wouldn't be sufficient for our purposes?   Has anyone calculated how many molecules of c60 a teaspoon of olive oil would contain?  Would it exceed the number of cell receptor sites for the c60 molecule?  

 

One benefit of consuming no more c60oo than necessary would be reduced exposure to impurities, including solvents and toxic cousins of c60.  For example, I notice my commercial c60oo brew is made with cheaper 99.95% c60 (rather than the 99.99% variety), so the amount of impurities I'm consuming might not be negligible.  (However, by only consuming 1 ml of 99.95% c60, theoretically you'd be getting no more impurities than would be contained in one teaspoon (approximately 5 ml) of 99.99% c60).  

 

As I seem to be allergic to concentrated olive polyphenols (olive leaves, extract capsules, etc), is there any reason to believe c60 potentiates these polyphenols?  Reducing the dose of c60oo might be advantageous to overly sensitive people, if a whole teaspoon is in excess of what's required.

 

I suppose a related question is whether under-dosing at higher frequency is more effective than getting blasted at lower frequency.  

 

1 mg of fully dissolved C60 contains about 800 quadrillion molecules -- Avogadro's number / (720 g C60/mole x 1000 mg/g). The human body has around 37 trillion cells, with an average of a thousand or more mitochondria per cell. So that is around 37 quadrillion mitochondria or more, each with UCP2 pores to be blocked. The actual number of those pores per mitochondria is unknown (to me), though SCs have about 10 times as many as somatic cells. And given that not all C60 particles make it to the mitochondria, a teaspoon with 3 mg or so seems about right. Less might work as well as long as you block the pores sufficiently, while more will not have any extra effect on SCs, as you can't block those pores more than 100%.

 

Waking up SCs is an on/off thing. No middle ground.

 

I don't consider impurities (fullerenes other than C60) to be a problem at 99.95% purity. In fact, I wish SES still offered the lower grade, as the purer the crystal, the more difficult it is to dissolve. MCT oil (and others) can be used, keeping in mind that the amount of C60 in MCT oil at saturation is about 1/3 less. Still, I can't imagine that anyone would have a problem with one teaspoon of olive oil, as the amount of polyphenols in it is very small. One liter might contain half a gram, so that's around 2 mg of polyphenols in a teaspoon. 

 

The major fullerene impurity is C70, and that is indeed dangerous as it is attracted to the endoplasmic reticulum where it can interfere with protein folding. I experimented with fullerenes containing 28% C70 nearly ten years ago, and found that intermittent use didn't cause a problem, but even a very small dose (.5 mg extract) did after several days of daily dosing.

[stephen_b]

I have had some success with the mitochondrial protocol recently.

 

Since then I ran an additional cycle of the stem cell protocol, which has also yielded good results for me.

 

I noticed a decrease in pushups (45 to 41) after this latest stem cell cycle and also a less successful track session. I also remember, after doing my initial set of mitochondrial protocol cycles, my running performance diminishing by quite a bit after 8 stem cell cycles. The stem cell cycles did work as I had hoped they would based on reduction of epigenetic age though.

 

I wonder if running 1 or 2 mitochondrial protocol cycles after a cycle or multiple cycles of the stem cell protocol might be a good standard operating procedure. For me that might be Sunday/Monday for stem cell and then Thursday/Friday for mitochondrial protocol. I plan on giving that a try.

[Turnbuckle]

I have had some success with the mitochondrial protocol recently.

 

Since then I ran an additional cycle of the stem cell protocol, which has also yielded good results for me.

 

I noticed a decrease in pushups (45 to 41) after this latest stem cell cycle and also a less successful track session. I also remember, after doing my initial set of mitochondrial protocol cycles, my running performance diminishing by quite a bit after 8 stem cell cycles. The stem cell cycles did work as I had hoped they would based on reduction of epigenetic age though.

 

I wonder if running 1 or 2 mitochondrial protocol cycles after a cycle or multiple cycles of the stem cell protocol might be a good standard operating procedure. For me that might be Sunday/Monday for stem cell and then Thursday/Friday for mitochondrial protocol. I plan on giving that a try.

 

 

If your aren't already, I suggest 2 or 3 fission treatments in the days after using fusion with C60 to replace old cells. If you don't use the new SCs, you might lose them. As for SC mitochondria, it's known that during differentiation, the more dysfunctional mitochondria are segregated to the new somatic daughter cell while the daughter SC gets the good stuff. So another few rounds of mito treatment may be in order just as you suspect. Let us know what happens.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 07 July 2022 - 09:46 PM.

[Empiricus]

I have had some success with the mitochondrial protocol recently.

 

Since then I ran an additional cycle of the stem cell protocol, which has also yielded good results for me.

 

I noticed a decrease in pushups (45 to 41) after this latest stem cell cycle and also a less successful track session. I also remember, after doing my initial set of mitochondrial protocol cycles, my running performance diminishing by quite a bit after 8 stem cell cycles. The stem cell cycles did work as I had hoped they would based on reduction of epigenetic age though.

 

I wonder if running 1 or 2 mitochondrial protocol cycles after a cycle or multiple cycles of the stem cell protocol might be a good standard operating procedure. For me that might be Sunday/Monday for stem cell and then Thursday/Friday for mitochondrial protocol. I plan on giving that a try.

 

Lower exercise endurance was one side effect I recall of using c60 --without fission sessions-- prior to this protocol (which I just started).

 

Are you using a bottle of c60 that gave you no running performance issues in the past, or had you recently start a new bottle? I recently bought the same brand you mentioned from Amazon.  

Edited by Empiricus, 08 July 2022 - 12:09 AM.

[stephen_b]

I'm not using C60 outside of the stem cell protocol, so I don't know if I can attribute anything to just the C60. It's not a fresh bottle though. I might be due to get a new one, but it seems to be working from the standpoint of reducing epigenetic age.

[Turnbuckle]

Lower exercise endurance was one side effect I recall of using c60 --without fission sessions-- prior to this protocol (which I just started).

 

 

 

I haven't experienced that. Just the opposite, actually. I used C60 for years prior to developing this protocol, and the most dependable aspect was the temporary enhancement of power and endurance. It could be so significant that I called it the arrogance of C60, as you could easily injure yourself with the extra power. This is due to all cells except red blood cells having mitochondrial UCP2 pores, though SCs have around ten times as many. UCP2 pores allow protons to pass without producing ATP, trimming the energy output. C60 blocks them and thus produces maximum power.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 08 July 2022 - 11:45 AM.

[Kelvin]

 

For diet I follow a low carb protocol, but not too strictly unless I want to lose weight quickly.  When I am on a fission day I eat more carbs and less fat than normal (to avoid stearic acid) because ketogenic diets and fasting promote fusion.

 

 On fusion days I just stick to my low carb routine.

 

I keep my C60 supply in a cardboard box in a closet I don't use.  But I will also start putting it in a metal box and throw out the bottle after six months (even if it isn't remotely near expired) then order a new one just to make sure I am using C60 that has as little impurities as possible.

 

 

Following up on my comments about drinking two weeks after finishing a few C60 cycles.  I'm putting more context around my supplement routine because, in retrospect, I believe my liver was healthier than average before I tried C60.

 

I am 42 and began Turnbuckle's mitochondrial fission/fusion protocol three years ago with excellent results.  The first year of mito fission/fusion I did 20 cycles to make sure I eliminated as much mitochondrial damage as possible.

 

After the first year I reduced the number of mito cycles to eight a year.  Still, this might be more than I need because I feel little improvement after the fourth cycle or so.

 

Around the same time I began the mitochondria protocol I also started taking Dorian Gray's advice for moderate drinkers to keep their livers healthy with phosphatidyl choline and SAM-e because of their liver protective effects.  Once or twice a month I take 2.5 grams of phosphatidyl choline and 1.2 grams of SAM-e.  I also usually (but not always) take 500 mgs of pantethine for lunch on days when I am planning to drink.

 

Pantethine speeds up the body's conversion of one of ethanol's breakdown products, acetaldehyde, into less harmful compounds.  It is acetaldehyde, not so much ethanol itself, that causes most of the cellular damage from alcohol usage.

 

After three years of success on mito fission/fusion I finally tried C60 for the first time taking six cycles this February and March.

 

For both mito fission/fusion and C60 I followed Turnbuckle's latest protocol.

 

My only modifications are that I don't make the brownies, I take the supplements in capsule form instead of blending them together, I kept 50 mgs of sulforaphane with dihydromyricetin on fusion days, and I use NMN with NR when I am on a fission day.

 

For mito fusion days I take 2 grams of dihydromyricetin and 50 milligrams of sulforaphane.

 

For C60 fusion days I doubled that to 4 grams of dihydromyricetin and 100 milligrams sulforaphane.

 

My thinking is that before starting C60 my liver was already in good shape thanks to mito fission/fusion, as well as my occasional supplementation of pantethine, SAM-e, and phosphatidyl choline.

 

 

Edited by Kelvin, 09 July 2022 - 02:58 AM.

[Kelvin]

My annual checkup is back.  I'm posting the results for June 2022 and May 2021 to compare the impact of taking six cycles of C60 for the first time this February and March.

 

My doctor was VERY impressed with this year's tests.

 

Note that my father's side of the family has a history of type II diabetes and I had symptoms of prediabetes before I started mito fission/fusion and switched to a low carb diet three years ago.  I have kept to a low carb diet, though inconsistently.  Before I started the mito protocol my blood sugar was 98.  By 2021 it dropped to 91 while symptoms of prediabetes almost vanished.  C60 looks like it further improved my kidneys.

 

Thanks, Turnbuckle.

 

My age today - 42

 

May 2021 

 

Cholesterol

 

HDL - 50

LDL - 119

Triglycerides - 85

 

Blood pressure - 117/79

Heart rate - 102 beats per minute

 

Kidneys

Blood sugar - 91

Creatinine - 1.12

Blood urea nitrogen - 24

Urine Protein - Negative

 

Liver function

SGPT - 25

SGOT - 21

Alkaline - 52

 

Blood count

Hemoglobin - 14.8

White blood count - 4.5

Hematocrit - 41.5

Platelets - 197,000

 

Thyroid 

TSH - 2.890

 

 

 

June 2022

 

Cholesterol

 

HDL - 41

LDL - 78

Triglycerides - 98

 

Blood pressure - 108/78

Heart rate - 92 beats per minute

 

Kidneys

Blood sugar - 87

Creatinine - 0.9

Blood urea nitrogen - 14

Urine protein - Negative

 

Liver function

SGPT - 30

SGOT - 23

Alkaline - 59

 

Blood count

Hemoglobin - 14.9

White blood count - 4.3

Hematocrit - 41.9

Platelets - 198,000

 

Thyroid 

TSH - 2.198

Edited by Kelvin, 09 July 2022 - 02:48 AM.

[Kelvin]

I plan on taking C60 two or three times every six months and the senolytic part of the protocol once every month or two months.

 

The reason I took six cycles for my first trial of C60 is because I wanted to make sure smaller niches (like hair cells) were topped off in case they were lower than my age might suggest.

 

At my age that should keep my stem cell pools filled up easily considering how stem cell niches double during fusion until there is no more room for extra stem cells.

 

Meanwhile the senolytics will kill of older cells to make way for younger cells.

 

I may slowly increase how frequently I take C60 as I get older.  However, I will only increase it if I see the current frequency of C60 cycles is not working as well since I don't want to use the protocol more than necessary because it isn't known how many times stem cells can replenish themselves with symmetric division.

Edited by Kelvin, 09 July 2022 - 03:02 AM.

[johnhemming]

I am interested in doing some extra work on the mitochondria and experimenting with the C60 protocol and Rapamycin (I have both, but have not tried them yet).

 

I am particularly concerned about identifying how reliable blood tests are (I do weekly tests and sometimes send the same sample to two labs). 

Using UK figures I have the following creatinine figures going back a few weeks: 68.53, 74.37, 92(postal), 77.7, 122(postal), 85.84

I think the most recent figure is one where the lab did the testing particularly quickly, but I don't know.  It is obvious that the postal figures for some values are pretty useless

OTOH

 

For Sodium I have  140.8, 140.5, 142.7, 144, 137.4

 

Hence we can see a statistical variation, but otherwise they are pretty similar.

 

One of my current focuses is on blood cell (white and red) quality.  I am thinking in the autumn I may have testing cycles in which to consider C60 and Rapa, however.

 

 

 

 

[Empiricus]

If your aren't already, I suggest 2 or 3 fission treatments in the days after using fusion with C60 to replace old cells. If you don't use the new SCs, you might lose them. As for SC mitochondria, it's known that during differentiation, the more dysfunctional mitochondria are segregated to the new somatic daughter cell while the daughter SC gets the good stuff. So another few rounds of mito treatment may be in order just as you suspect. Let us know what happens.

 

Older versions of the protocol included no follow-up fission days.  On at least one of these older protocols Turnbuckle included the warning, "Expect that excess stem cells will be recycled (and thus wasted) by homeostatic mechanisms."  This warning was aimed at non-geriatrics.    

 

Are the fission treatments, which appear to have been added to the protocol in March 2022, thought to reduce the likelihood of stem cell wasting by homeostatic mechanisms?  In the above reply, Turnbuckle says, "If you don't use the new SCs, you might lose them."    

 

So the use of fission promoters ("mito treatment") is thought to put the new stem cells to "use" such that they won't be wasted? 

Edited by Empiricus, 09 July 2022 - 12:57 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

Older versions of the protocol included no follow-up fission days.  On at least one of these older protocols Turnbuckle included the warning, "Expect that excess stem cells will be recycled (and thus wasted) by homeostatic mechanisms."  This warning was aimed at non-geriatrics.    

 

Are the fission treatments, which appear to have been added to the protocol in March 2022, thought to reduce the likelihood of stem cell wasting by homeostatic mechanisms?  In the above reply, Turnbuckle says, "If you don't use the new SCs, you might lose them."    

 

So the use of fission promoters ("mito treatment") is thought to put the new stem cells to "use" such that they won't be wasted? 

 

The body is always a work in progress. Some 300 billion cells are replaced every day, while functional stem cell numbers decline exponentially through life. By the time you are 80, you have about 5% of what you had as a teen, and 0.5% of what you had when born. This is disastrous as the need for stem cells is steadily increasing. Thus filling stem cells niches with fusion/C60 is good, but fusion won't allow replacement, so mito morphology has to be shifted to fission to get cells replaced. I've found the 1-day/3-day fusion/fission split to work well.

 

And yes, you can expect  excess SCs to be eliminated. 

[Empiricus]

I am on my third cycle.  I have been following the protocol close to the letter, except substituting half a cup of melted blueberries for orange juice (flavoring). It just occurred to me the anthocyanins in blueberries aren't exactly inert with respect to mitochondria and stem cells. Is there a case to be made for blueberries being complementary to the fusion phase?  

 

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/31718251/ "certain anthocyanins affect the activity of mitochondria"

 

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/27038533/ Anthocyanins in cardioprotection: A path through mitochondria

"recently discovered their pharmacological effects on mitochondria in cardioprotection: reduction of cytosolic cytochrome c preventing apoptosis and sustainment of electron transfer between NADH dehydrogenase and cytochrome c supporting oxidative phosphorylation in ischemia-damaged mitochondria."

 

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/26410618/ Nutraceuticalintervention reverses the negative effects of blood from aged rats on stem cells  

"We examined if we could reverse this effect of aged serum on stem cell proliferation by treating aged rats with NT-020, a dietary supplement containing blueberry, green tea, vitamin D3, and carnosine that has been shown to increase neurogenesis in aged rats."

 

 

 

 

Edited by Empiricus, 12 July 2022 - 10:05 PM.

[Empiricus]

More on the blueberry, and other things I consumed during the protocol that may have impacted results.

 

1st Cycle - I added Saint John's Wort (2 capsules) to the C60 mix. Waited only 1.5 hours between the glycerol monostearate hot chocolate and C60.  I think I looked healthier the next day, but I felt rather spaced-out for several days. Memory poor. When writing, my words came out a little jumbled. Also, I inexplicably sprained my little toe while watching my step very carefully. My eyesight seemed worse than usual. For fission, I used N+R for two days, but nothing else.  My energy was quite low generally throughout this cycle.

 

2nd Cycle - No SJW.  I added a little blueberry, but not as much as I would the next one. I still felt somewhat spacey, but not so much brain fog. I started feeling much better over 3 days of fission (1.5 grams niacinamide + R, lysine, Arginine AKG, methionine. Also isoquercetin and curcumin). Visually the world seemed to have become more interesting.  

 

3rd Cycle - No SJW.  To the C60 mix I added 0.5 cups of blueberry, 4 grams of glycine. At Time 0, in addition to GMS I took a tablespoon of melted mango butter (high stearate but low palmitic acid). The next morning my thinking was clear, the fogginess had entirely lifted.  I felt more energetic--physically and mentally--throughout the day than I had for months.   Next evening I took all the fission stuff (including 1.5 grams of niacinamide), plus one capsule of isoquercetin.  Next morning I woke up with a bit of a headache.  I took 200 mg of sam-e (along with high-dose thiamine supplements I take most days to prevent arthritis pain and long-covid flare-ups). Throughout the day I experienced brain fog, worse vision, "spaced-out” feeling, difficulty concentrating, and poor memory. I took some glycine in case the source of the problem had been the sam-e.

 

Until the second day of 3rd cycle, I assumed it had been SJW that caused the brain-fog side effects. But SJW couldn’t explain my side effects on the 3rd cycle, the morning after taking the niacinamide.  Perhaps the brain fog issues on Cycle 1 were caused not by SJW, but by the niacinamide I took the previous evening (I often take it before bed).  Perhaps the positive experience of fusion on cycle 3 could be explained by not having taken niacinamide the previous evening (as I deliberately took a day off between cycles). 

 

Looking at old threads about negative C60 side effects, I saw where Turnbuckle and others reported negative interactions between C60 and niacin.  Could it be that 24 hours is too early to begin the fission part of the protocol? Maybe for some people too much C60 remains in the body, and the niacinamide’s interaction with it leads to some effects. And when doing protocols back-to-back too much niacinamide remains in the body after 24 hours to safely take C60.

 

For both Cycle 2 and 3, on the day following taking the C60 mix, my sprained toe didn't hurt as much.  

Edited by Empiricus, 14 July 2022 - 10:43 AM.

[johnhemming]

It is argued that the active metabolite based upon anthacyanins is Ferulic Acid.  I personally take some each day.  It may be worth on an experimental basis replacing blueberries with Ferulic acid.

Edited by johnhemming, 14 July 2022 - 10:35 AM.

[Empiricus]

Talk about deja vu!  Here are some quotes from "C60 Toxicity Concerns" from 2016 where the question of the spacing of niacinamide and C60 consumption came up:

I am on day 3 of an adverse reaction related to an initial dose of c60oo.  My mind is normally my greatest vanity, but due to what has been called brain fog on this topic, I am unable to pull my thoughts together.

 

On the evening of the 13th, I took 2 mg which I believed to be a safe initial dose.  I noticed very little before going to bed except irritability.  The next morning, I woke up with extreme 'brain fog ', but continued to pushed through my morning routine of supplements, adding them slowly over several hours to determine any effects.

 

After taking 500mg of NR,  I began having wave-like feelings accompanied by sweating after which I did have some relief and clarity of mind.  

 

 

I had a rather negative reaction to taking 1 gram of niacin at about the same time as a dose of C60, so I would recommend that people don't mix C60 with NAD precursors such as niacin, nicotinamide or NR. At least one toxic interaction is known, quoted below. It's not at all clear how this could apply here, but it's also known that partially oxidized C60 is even more reactive, and this is likely present in most of the C60/EVOO being sold commercially, as exposure to visible light creates it.

 

Quote

 

Upon UVA irradiation, however, both C60 and NADH undergo photochemical reactions to produce O2(.-), which could lead to a possible synergistic toxicity effects. C60 photosensitization via Type-I pathway is not observed in the absence of reducing agents.

 

 

So, speculating here, UVA irradiation might not be necessary with C60 epoxide, and in the presence of NADH (the reduced form of NAD+), superoxide radicals could be formed, which would be more obvious when NAD precursors are taken. The presence of C60 epoxides in commercially sold C60/EVOO could at least partially explain how it is creating tumors in rats.

 

How long do NAD precursors such as niacin, nicotinamide and NR stick around in the body? What are your thoughts as to how much time should pass after taking a dose of c60 before these are consumed.  I'm also wondering how much time should elapse prior to a c60 dose if you've taken some.

 

Isn't it thought that c60 sticks around for quite a while? Like weeks?  How is it even possible to avoid this interaction if you're taking c60?  

 

I don't know about NR, but for niacin and nicotinamide the times would be roughly half a day and a full day respectively. See Fig. 1. That's for taking them before C60. Doing it the other way there are no papers to go on, but from what cmpercell said above, he had a problem taking NR in the morning after taking C60 in the evening of the previous day. My own experience suggests a full day or two is good enough, though there's the possibility one could have a negative reaction that would be so minimal you wouldn't think it anything other than a random fluctuation. Likely the C60 mix has something to do with the time required. The more oxidized the mix, the more of a pro-oxidant it becomes in the presence of NADH, and thus the more time required. But that's speculative as I said before.

 

How much spacing between the C60 and niacinamide is optimal? Might the present protocol be cutting it a little too close for those of us using commercial C60 oils? Would there be any cost to delaying the fission until 36 or even 48 hours after the C60?  

Edited by Empiricus, 14 July 2022 - 04:57 PM.

[Bike_to_120]

This is interesting. I've been trying to read and understand the thinking behind all of this but only see bits and pieces in various posts. Is the idea summarized on one post and what each of the supplements is proported to be doing?

 

Stem cell self-renewal

This is an update to post 1700.

  

Time 0 —

One brownie

 

 

 

Time 3:00 C60 stack (mito fusion) —

1. C60 — one teaspoon if in olive oil, 1.5-2 teaspoons if in MCT oil

2. Sunflower lecithin — 2-4 grams

3. Dihydromyricetin — 2-6 grams

4. Liposomal glutathione — .5-1 grams

5. AKG (alpha ketoglutarate) — 1 gram

6. AAKG  — 2-3 grams

7. SAM-e — 100-500 mg

8. Lysine — 2-6 grams

9. Methionine — 1-3 grams

 

Astragalus root powder, every 4th treatment — 500 mg

 

Next day (mito fission, may be repeated for 2 days) —

1. Nicotinamide — 1 gram

2. Ribose — 1-2 grams

3. AAKG  — 2-3 grams

4. Lysine — 2-6 grams

5. Methionine — 1-2 grams

 

Notes:

1. I generally add the stack to OJ along with a slug of olive oil, and blend it. I believe the olive oil will slow absorption of the C60 and remove any need to space it out from the other ingredients.

2. More lysine and methionine may be taken a couple of hours after the C60 stack.

3. Threonine (not listed) is optional. I have used 5-10g on occasion, so I can't say with certainty.

4. The second dose of dihydromyricetin may be unnecessary, as it is in the brownie. It degrades the taste of both the brownie and the stack, but is not that terrible.

5. The solubility of C60 in MCT oil is less than in olive oil, so I use more with MCT oil.

6. I use both AKG and AAKG to get short and long term action. The short action is more important with the C60 stack. AKG salts can also be used.

7. I've dispensed with sulforaphane, but it might be helpful for some people. 

8. Present schedule varies, but generally 1-2 times a week.

 

Caveats:

1. This is a work in progress.

2. It is intended as a geriatric treatment for age reversal.

3. One should avoid alcohol during this treatment.

4. A link to the latest protocol can always be found on my profile page.

5. All amounts are approximate and based on a 180 pound individual.

  

Results:

    Present epigenetic age (TruMe) is 28 years less than chronological. 

 

[Empiricus]

I found an October 2016 paper that looks at how long NR elevates NAD+

 

Nicotinamide riboside is uniquely and orally bioavailable in mice and humans

https://www.nature.c...les/ncomms12948

 

- "NAD+ and NAAD remained elevated 24 h after the last dose."

- "The data indicate that all doses of NR elevated 8 h NAAD and 24 h NAD+"

 

As was first seen in the n=1 human experiment and in mouse liver experiments, NAAD is the most sensitive biomarker of effective NAD+ supplementation because it is undetectable in the blood of people before supplementation. At all doses, the peak shape of NAAD indicated that NAD+ metabolism is most greatly boosted at 8 h with significant supplementation at 4 h and significant supplementation remaining at 24 h. At the 8 h peak, the average concentration of NAAD was elevated to 0.56±0.26, 0.74±0.27 and 1.24±0.51 μM in PBMCs from volunteers taking 100, 300 and 1,000 mg single doses of NR, respectively.

 

 

Here is a lengthy article about how long niacin and its relatives remain in your body.  Concerning niacinamide it says, "it could take nearly 48 hours to eliminate a high dose of nicotinamide from your system after ingestion."  

 

Interestingly, to eliminate excess niacin they recommend activated charcoal or calcium-d-glucarate.  "After niacin is metabolized, its metabolites (e.g. nicotinamide) are excreted via renal pathways. These renal pathways may become overwhelmed among individuals taking high doses of niacin, other drugs, and/or among those exposed to dietary toxins. Calcium-d-glucarate is a beneficial supplement to consider in that it functions as a beta-glucuronidase inhibitor, clearing molecular build-up within detoxification pathways."  Perhaps these substances could be used to clean out any lingering niacinamide prior to dosing C60.  

Edited by Empiricus, 15 July 2022 - 07:35 AM.