106 replies to this topic

[experimenting]

I would continue to use D3 and K, i doubt they will work much passed a honeymoon phase. It just seems like all of your problems are generalized, sub-clinical, and more than likely has a simple mental explanation that is made potentially worse by some dietary and lifestyle choices. All this and still seems like you claim to try everything and throw hands in the air. Not buying it, sorry

D3 and K (those specific brands) have worked for me for around 3 years now. Well “worked” in that they’ve made my quality of life much better but also illuminated how much more is still missing.

These issues have plagued my entire life (I remember how I used to be lethargic all day, even in high school) so they transcend dietary and lifestyle choices, since those have evolved over time.

I’ve just always felt like something is “missing” in my brain/body. I grew up super tall but excessively skinny- at one point 6’2 and just 119lbs. Unable to put on muscle and literally zero fitness. Zero libido in the way that a young teenage male should have. Weirdly zoned out affect (I used to not be aware of the news at all for years) At the same time, academically excellent. Who the fuck knows, I’m tired of it because I actually want to enjoy myself in life, not be a somewhat productive robot.
At one point, I had physical pain so bad I skipped classes in college. I should have addressed this issue then, but I was also so depressed I couldn’t have the awareness to realize just how warped I was.

[gamesguru]

D3 and K (those specific brands) have worked for me for around 3 years now. Well “worked” in that they’ve made my quality of life much better but also illuminated how much more is still missing.

 

Just keep taking those then, problem solved.  I'm sure they'll overstay their welcome and you'll wind up over-saturating yourself.

 

The remaining issues can likely be delineated and handled on a case by case basis.

[experimenting]

Just keep taking those then, problem solved. I'm sure they'll overstay their welcome and you'll wind up over-saturating yourself.

The remaining issues can likely be delineated and handled on a case by case basis.

I’m still a shadow of a person. Just a person who can actually get it up, and also a person not in constant pain.

I guess it’s piece by piece after that...

[gamesguru]

hmm, sounds like an axis II disorder of schizotype or borderline personality.  it is difficult approach.  I would take the vitamin D3 and K as long as it works continue doing what works best.  Other than that seems like a dietary issue, perhaps deficiency in some other related factor to D3 as selenium or magnesium.  Many deficiencies can end up with a cluster of crappy fatigued feeling symptoms.  But it could also be systemic prodormal autoimmune, cancer, pre-diabetes.   Literally not possible to diagnose thru the internet.  I would get a doctor's confirmation on the clusteredness of symptoms and delineate it according to diagnosable standards.  Please report those findings, I am curious of future developments and insights.  Thank you.

[experimenting]

hmm, sounds like an axis II disorder of schizotype or borderline personality. it is difficult approach. I would take the vitamin D3 and K as long as it works continue doing what works best. Other than that seems like a dietary issue, perhaps deficiency in some other related factor to D3 as selenium or magnesium. Many deficiencies can end up with a cluster of crappy fatigued feeling symptoms. But it could also be systemic prodormal autoimmune, cancer, pre-diabetes. Literally not possible to diagnose thru the internet. I would get a doctor's confirmation on the clusteredness of symptoms and delineate it according to diagnosable standards. Please report those findings, I am curious of future developments and insights. Thank you.

Yeah I had started seeing doctors this year, quarantine shut that down.

Since lifelong I don’t think cancer/diabetes. Might be a rare nutrient deficit.

Autoimmune is my best guess right now due to joint pain/inflexibility/stiffness. Also that’s the only test that gave a an abnormality.

[gamesguru]

Since lifelong I don’t think cancer/diabetes. Might be a rare nutrient deficit.

 

Doubtful.  Just an axis II and poor diet likely culprits in these situations.  Systemic inflammation and malnutrition can manifest a variety of subclinical features and fit the diagnoses for many things, like CFS, arthritis, dyspepsia, depression and similar.  Can often be 90% corrected by lifestyle changes and a few choice supplements.  But no one ever commit to the change.  Good luck

Edited by gamesguru, 04 June 2020 - 02:15 PM.

[experimenting]

Doubtful. Just an axis II and poor diet likely culprits in these situations. Systemic inflammation and malnutrition can manifest a variety of subclinical features and fit the diagnoses for many things, like CFS, arthritis, dyspepsia, depression and similar. Can often be 90% corrected by lifestyle changes and a few choice supplements. But no one ever commit to the change. Good luck

You calling me mentally retarded, nice.

What supplements and lifestyle changes in addition to the above?

Doubtful. Just an axis II and poor diet likely culprits in these situations. Systemic inflammation and malnutrition can manifest a variety of subclinical features and fit the diagnoses for many things, like CFS, arthritis, dyspepsia, depression and similar. Can often be 90% corrected by lifestyle changes and a few choice supplements. But no one ever commit to the change. Good luck

As in, what “exotic” nutrients am I missing? I do the basics, zinc mag etc, nothing noticeable from these either way.

[gamesguru]

As in, what “exotic” nutrients am I missing? I do the basics, zinc mag etc, nothing noticeable from these either way.

 

Nothing exotic, mostly common place.  Then 6 months re-evaluate and take from there.

 

magnesium is fine, usually threonate glycinate or malate.  Calcium and potassium supplements also seem safe, but probly not that relevant to you.  I would cut the zinc and just do a multivitamin 3-5x weekly preferably a plant based one without Iron, Sulfur, or Phosphorous.  Zinc can make you nauseous and it's best in small amounts.

 

Green tea, Ginseng.  Ginger.  Spices and Herbs (oregano, pepper, etc).  Flaxseed.  Blueberries.  Kale.  So many ways to improve one's health.  I have been trying grapefruit and royal jelly lately, it is nice and subtle

[experimenting]

Nothing exotic, mostly common place. Then 6 months re-evaluate and take from there.

magnesium is fine, usually threonate glycinate or malate. Calcium and potassium supplements also seem safe, but probly not that relevant to you. I would cut the zinc and just do a multivitamin 3-5x weekly preferably a plant based one without Iron, Sulfur, or Phosphorous. Zinc can make you nauseous and it's best in small amounts.

Green tea, Ginseng. Ginger. Spices and Herbs (oregano, pepper, etc). Flaxseed. Blueberries. Kale. So many ways to improve one's health. I have been trying grapefruit and royal jelly lately, it is nice and subtle

Yep. Seems like chronic low grade inflammation. Random things help in bits and pieces, d3 and k the most, I gotta put together a reliable stack.

Why would I require this sort of intervention when others don’t, that’s what I’ll never know I guess.

[Gal220]

What are you taking as far a vitamin regimen, multivitamin - maybe try Thorne or LEF 2 a day? 

 

D also needs magnesium (1:1 ratio with calcium is best like this one) and some vitamin A(i would used cod oil like Wileys or Virgin), especially with high doses of D.  

 

See also thehealthbeat.com for long explanation of cofactors.

 

 

Also dont take the calc/mag with your mutlivitamin.

Edited by Gal220, 16 June 2020 - 04:34 PM.

[experimenting]

What are you taking as far a vitamin regimen, multivitamin - maybe try Thorne or LEF 2 a day?

D also needs magnesium (1:1 ratio with calcium is best like this one) and some vitamin A(i would used cod oil like Wileys or Virgin), especially with high doses of D.

See also thehealthbeat.com for long explanation of cofactors.


Also dont take the calc/mag with your mutlivitamin.

I don’t do a multi. Vitamin A makes me feel horrible at any dose.

Revisiting this thread, unlike any other vitamin, the delivery form of d3 seems to matter hugely.

Jarrow D3 in olive oil made me feel horrible. LEFs d3 for whatever reason makes me feel great.

D3 in MCT oil seems a lot more “neutral” if that’s even a term.

Truly strange.

I have also ordered Alfacalcidol, activated D that isn’t calcifying. We see how this goes.

[RWhigham]

Best book on vitamin D3 treatment:  "How Not To Die With True HIGH-DOSE Vitamin D Therapy" by Tiago Henriques. Subtitle: Coimbra's Protocol and the Secrets of Safe High-Dose Vitamin D3 & Vitamin K2 Supplementation. Learn how Brazilian and Portuguese Doctors are Reversing Disease While Keeping Their Patients Safe.  Details the results achieved by Dr. Cicero Coimbra, neurologist and professor of the School of Medicine of the University of Sao Paulo, Brazil and his protocol.  Dr Coimbra achieves very high rate of remission from incurable diseases such as Parkinsons.  The maximum safe dose of vitamin D3 varies enormously from person to person. One indicator your are at maximum is when you have driven your parathyroid hormone down to the the bottom of the test range, or slightly below.

Edited by RWhigham, 16 June 2020 - 10:47 PM.

[Gal220]

Thorne and LEF use many preformed ingredients like the vitamin A in CoD oil is ready use, your body doesnt have to convert it.

 

You can also call and talk to LEF, they have consultants available to give you some ideas.

 

At the very least I would add magnesium/calcium

 

 

For brain inflammation I would look at Longvidas curcumin or Blockbuster All Clear 

 

Good site for brain information in general is HERE

Edited by Gal220, 16 June 2020 - 10:45 PM.

[experimenting]

I called and talked to LEF. They were quite cagey about their ingredient list, and amounts.

I have also tried several other brands of d3. They had effects similar to one another and different from the LEF version. I am now extremely confused.

Knowing that d3 is extremely photosensitive I left some d3 oil out in the midday sun for a few hours. Sure enough upon using it I had a different effect profile than I had had prior to that.

There’s one way to settle this and I have done it. Results this week.

I have sent in the LEF sample to a laboratory for full testing and analysis (GCMS, NMR etc). Results to come back this week. My guess now is that there is a d-derivative in the LEF product that suits my needs.

Will be back.

[experimenting]

This didn’t go quite as expected.

Vitamin D3 was detected in the sample, but in equal amounts was a category termed “total sterols” and listed just at that, ie no further clarification on what these sterols are.

My guess is...lumisterol? I have no clue and am running into a wall here.

[Gal220]

A functional doctor could start doing an elimination diet along with testing not done by a normal doctor. Very pricey though and most insurance will not cover it.

 

Could ask your primary doctor to refer you to a geneticist for testing.

 

Possibly heavy metal poisoning, Andrew cutler protocol is something to check into.  If you read up on many people's experiences with heavy metal detox, many of their symptoms sound similar to yours.

 

 

[experimenting]

A functional doctor could start doing an elimination diet along with testing not done by a normal doctor. Very pricey though and most insurance will not cover it.

Could ask your primary doctor to refer you to a geneticist for testing.

Possibly heavy metal poisoning, Andrew cutler protocol is something to check into. If you read up on many people's experiences with heavy metal detox, many of their symptoms sound similar to yours.

Through some act of god I got lucky on stocks and bitcoin, and now at blowing through my funds to rescue something of my life. Do you know of any in the New England area?

[Gal220]

Find a functional practitioner near you - link 

 

More on heavy metal chelating - link 1, link 2

[experimenting]

An update for anyone interested. I am awaiting the results of additional chemical testing to discover what impurities/ingredients are unique to the LEF product that gives me such utter relief. I will have the answer ideally this week.

Nothing else works for me, not even remotely. I have tried a variety of other brands of D3 and gotten nothing out of them.

I have sent one such product to this chemical tester also, to get an analysis of chemical differences that might prove illustrative.

Note that LEF recently changed its D product and the new versions do not work for me. So I am fearful, because I have felt “good” for the first time ever, and that’s about to be taken away from me. It is not placebo, I have tested myself double-blind with a friend.

If this fails I am at an utter dead and have no idea what to do with myself.

[lemon_]

Now I am even more confused. I tried Jarrow’s D3 and another D3 in coconut oil, got wildly different effects from the LEF d3.

LEF d3 and jarrow d3 have exactly the same ingredients but for the fact that the LEF product has a mix of MCT and olive oil, whereas the jarrow is just olive oil, and it looks like the LEF product has a tiny amount of rosemary extract.

I tried rosemary extract and nothing happened really.

To control for the MCT oil I tried this coconut oil version of d3, couldn’t replicate the effects I get with the LEF product.

In short, what the fuck is happening, can someone please please help?

most companies buy the chemicals from China alibaba.com , so do some major pharmaceutical companies.... 

maybe life extension did their own paid research to get a supplement that works and not some jarrow market crap. 

go go life extension (*^▽^*)  ♡ 

Edited by cardsk, 11 August 2020 - 12:56 PM.

[Gal220]

What all brands have you tried and at what dose?

 

What I would consider the best brands -  Jarrow, Douglas Labortories, Thorne, Sports Research , Pure

 

LEF sells vitamin D in a combo with K and in their multis like this 2 a day.  Maybe they didnt change them all.

 

There are few vitamin D sites that promote it like grassrootshealth.net , they have a way of contacting them, maybe they can help.

 

 

Were you able to locate a functional doctor?

Look up videos/articles by Chris Masterjohn , this is the kind of functional doctor you want to help.  I see him active on some forums, maybe able to ask him directly.

He is taking donations for his covid info, so maybe he would be willing to do a consultation of sorts.

[experimenting]

What all brands have you tried and at what dose?

What I would consider the best brands - Jarrow, Douglas Labortories, Thorne, Sports Research , Pure

LEF sells vitamin D in a combo with K and in their multis like this 2 a day. Maybe they didnt change them all.

There are few vitamin D sites that promote it like grassrootshealth.net , they have a way of contacting them, maybe they can help.


Were you able to locate a functional doctor?
Look up videos/articles by Chris Masterjohn , this is the kind of functional doctor you want to help. I see him active on some forums, maybe able to ask him directly.
He is taking donations for his covid info, so maybe he would be willing to do a consultation of sorts.

Tried all except Douglas.

I get the results of the testing back this week, we’ll see what comes up. Maybe I’m going crazy, I doubt it though.

I haven’t yet tried to find a functional doc, I wanted to see this through before I resort to that.

[OlderThanThou2]

Try lots of vit C ( 2-3g min ), magnesium threonate ( it really works ), 375mg citicoline ( converts less to TMAO  than other forms of choline), plus some vinpocetine if you want. Plus a good multi of course. Fats tend to slow down the brain so don't take too much. Perhaps switch from oil to nuts. Plus get enough nitrates from greens, to increase NO.

[experimenting]

Try lots of vit C ( 2-3g min ), magnesium threonate ( it really works ), 375mg citicoline ( converts less to TMAO than other forms of choline), plus some vinpocetine if you want. Plus a good multi of course. Fats tend to slow down the brain so don't take too much. Perhaps switch from oil to nuts. Plus get enough nitrates from greens, to increase NO.

What does this have to do with my Vit D issue??

[experimenting]

Im seeing a chronic fatigue doc, he recommends some IVs, I’m not too hopeful.

Lab tests came back and unfortunately they didn’t distinguish any unique ingredients between samples, so that’s a dead end. No idea what to do from here. Maybe it’s an absorption thing, I do not know.

[experimenting]

I must be going crazy. I just don’t understand why exactly one (discontinued) supplement does exactly what I need, and I can’t figure out why. Nothing else comes remotely close.

Starting to lose hope, my thought was there’s some kind of sterol in there that’s doing it but I can’t pinpoint what. Maybe it’s the capsule? Does that matter?

[Gal220]

Hard to know, maybe you can find someone with the discontinued formulation and buy it up in the meantime.

[experimenting]

I cannot figure out what is wrong with me, and I do not even know what to test for.

Has anyone had chronic constant back pain and found a solution?

[Ames]

Try (very) low dose calcium (<50mg). Use powder to get that dose. You can even estimate with a pinch.

 

If it works without side effect, you can ramp up the dose a little but go slow. I submit that it will work best at low dose, or not at all.  Also give the effects from the first dose time to wane. If it works, it could be that you only need it once in a while. Its a common but bizarre assumption that supplementing every day with is necessary / optimal. 

 

Followed by low dose glycine after that experience is finished. Follow the same rules.

 

When you do take vitamin D, try adding Retinyl Palmitate in ratio to reduce side effects (maybe 5:1 or even 10:1  D:A), though consider going no higher than splitting a 5000 iu tablet in half per dose and spacing out the dosing as it will accumulate in your liver. 

 

I can't take any amount of vitamin D, without vitamin A, and not get insomnia / reduced sleep depth until I dose vitamin A. This side effect will drag on for days until I do.

 

Which is why I generally only take D for respiratory infections, and will rely on calcium / glycine for other symptoms that might benefit from pushing calcium / glutamate.

Edited by Ames, 10 September 2020 - 09:32 PM.

[experimenting]

Try (very) low dose calcium (<50mg). Use powder to get that dose. You can even estimate with a pinch.

If it works without side effect, you can ramp up the dose a little but go slow. I submit that it will work best at low dose, or not at all. Also give the effects from the first dose time to wane. If it works, it could be that you only need it once in a while. Its a common but bizarre assumption that supplementing every day with is necessary / optimal.

Followed by low dose glycine after that experience is finished. Follow the same rules.

When you do take vitamin D, try adding Retinyl Palmitate in ratio to reduce side effects (maybe 5:1 or even 10:1 D:A), though consider going no higher than splitting a 5000 iu tablet in half per dose and spacing out the dosing as it will accumulate in your liver.

I can't take any amount of vitamin D, without vitamin A, and not get insomnia / reduced sleep depth until I dose vitamin A. This side effect will drag on for days until I do.

Which is why I generally only take D for respiratory infections, and will rely on calcium / glycine for other symptoms that might benefit from pushing calcium / glutamate.

Interesting. What’s the mechanism here?