106 replies to this topic

[Infinity Descent]

You seem to be a bit over anxious. First thing to do is calm down. I had similar problems for about 6 years of my life. I felt that everything was just getting worse and worse. I had major back pain, Always tired, couldn't concentrate, etc.

 

First things first:

 

1. You must realize that your body can take a long time to adapt to effective changes. There is not necessarily a quick fix pill.

2. What really helped me turn things around where I feel almost "back to normal" was to start juicing. I would juice just about everything. I'm not a person that likes vegetables so I learned that I could just juice them and slam it all down without having to deal with the eating part.

3. You have to take a journal and write everything down then try to find the underlying patterns. It could be anything. Your environment may have everything to do with it.

4. Ultimately vitamin D seemed to be the major issue. I was staying inside a lot(I worked at night so this was a major issue). I started getting out during the day and slowly over time I started to feel a bit normal. Before I felt like I was constantly in a stupor. I'd have some vision problems, I'd wake up a lot when sleeping to urinate, I felt like the the hours would just pass and I'd get nothing done, etc.

 

Over time by juicing, getting real sunlight, exercising, and trying to change some habits things started to change. It took me a while to piece things together. Don't expect help from anyone. You have to figure it out yourself. It won't be easy. Chances are, whatever it is is something you are not expecting or thinking matters but it is.

 

It could be, for example, a carpet you bought that is giving off a lot of VOCs, or you are taking some supplement that is screwing your body up, or you are eating certain foods that do it but you just can't put two and two together because you think "Oh, there is no way it could be that".

 

The main thing to realize is

 

1. That you can figure out what is wrong

2. It will take time.

 

 

What you have to do is simply this: Try to feel the underlying direction you are headed. You want to feel the "low frequency" direction so when you do the right things you can stay with them. That is, you have to feel the underlying trend. Think of the stock market, a lot of jitter happens. If you are constantly changing at every turn you lose. Try to get back to basics. If you've been taking a lot of drugs(illicit or prescribed) it can take a while for your body to regain balance.

 

For me, I had several issues all going on that I think all stemmed from the underlying vitamin D deficiency and probably poor diet and lack of real exercise. I've always been a poor eater and I think it caught up with me. I had a kidney stone that really seemed to fuck me over and I had a low level infection. At first when I started having problems it was very irregular and  I had no clue. I ended up, after a few years, thinking it must be gluten because I'd get the shits almost every time I'd eat wheat. But then I realized it was probably milk. The patterns were very confusing cause sometimes I'd get sick and other times I wouldn't. Sometimes it would be immediately after I hate cereal and other times it would happen many hours after. I think the vitamin D deficiency was the main cause. The deficiency causes a myriad of issues because the body simply cannot function properly.

 

I take supplements but I think getting sunlight is the best. It's more than just the Vitamin D it produces, it seems to make me feel energetic. The warmth on my skin feels really good(I'm far more aware of it than I ever was, probably because I did without it for so long). The supplements are probably not absorbed as effectively as the body makes them.

 

Anyways, you have to put a plan together and figure it out, no one will give you a magic pill.  Your issues could be anything and it might be a combination of several factors. You have to start trying different things and long enough for them to be effective.

 

1. Start spending at least an hour a day outside every day for at least a month. If it is vitamin D by the end of the month you will have felt that underlying trend of just starting to feel better and better and better. Here you'll know.

2. Cut out all the shit you are putting in your body that you are not sure helps.

3. Start juicing and use variety. Get anything and everything you can, even a little. If you are missing some micro nutrient, say, then even a little is better than none. Try whatever odd ball shit you see at the market.  Generally you will definitely get a boost of energy from this alone but it might also supply you with any necessary chemicals you might need.

4. Change your food. You might eat something that is actually poisoning you and not realize it. It might be a certain can of soup where they put in some chemical that is causing you problems.(like how some people are allergic to the food coloring).

 

A long time ago when people had major problems, before medicine became what it is, they would send people off. Many times the person would get healthy then come back to the same thing and would end up getting sick again. What this tells me is that a lot of illness is due to our environment rather than our bodies. Of course over time our bodies can succumb to the environmental impacts. But if you can change your environment and habits enough and see a change then you can start seeing the light and walking towards it. Start doing different things. You have to change to change, it really is that simple. I know it's hard in practice but if you want things to be different then you have to create a real difference. Change your patterns and those patterns will change you.

 

Oh, and LSD won't help unless you are depressed, in fact, when I tried it I felt very off for about 6 months. Remember, the last thing you want to do is pile on the shit. You want to do LSD when everything is going great so that you get the best effect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ames]

Interesting. What’s the mechanism here?

 

I have a graduate medical science degree but am not a scientist nor doctor. I can write in jargon but generally don't like to attempt that here due to the fact that this board is heavy with people who are much better educated than I am. If I were to put effort in at this late hour, I could source citations to back up at least some of what I describe, but in truth most of my recommendations were founded on both my extensive experience in testing the supplements in question as well as some loose knoweldge in regard to their action. That's what my description will reflect. 

 

I'll get as specific as I can as well as elaborate.

 

You mention a few things.

 

First, your wide ranging symptoms:

 

chronic fatigue,

low sex drive,

disorganized thoughts,

brain fog,

body comp issues,

exercise recovery issues,

you name it.

 

 

Most of that could be explained by a sleep issue or pre-diabetes. Both tend to have inflammation in common and there can be overlap in cause and effect. 

 

Do you have unquenchable thirst issues that could indicate a sugar issue? Let me know. Don't forget.

 

Do you have noticeable sleep issues? 

 

The priority should be to honestly assess and work on maximizing your sleep potential. 

 

Take some supplements / OTC meds over a period of time to try and deepen sleep if you think it can be improved at all.

 

Practice sleep hygiene by, at the least, going to be before 11 pm every night. Closer to 9 pm is better.

 

Earlier bedtimes, assuming inflammation and excess glutamate/calcium aren't an issue and will not stymie sleep-depth regardless, should work to improve a flagging sugar sensitivity and your general hormonal profile.

 

Take a break from exercising to give your system a rest from the hormones that it stimulates, possible overtraining, and until you reach an equilibrium and are able to honestly assess your sleep at that point in time.

 

In my experience, consistency with certain substances improved my sleep cycle after about a decade of regular insomnia.

 

Notably, the GABA allosteric modulator taurine (500 mg per day, or 1 gram spaced apart by at least four hours and if needed), as well as a somewhat potent OTC neuro antinflammatory.

 

My favorite OTC pill, for the latter, is a combination-med that we have in the States called Excedrin. It is acetaminophen, aspirin, and caffeine. For a reason unknown to me, the combination has a unique anti-inflammatory effect that is better than any of the subtances in isolation. You should have that or something similar in Europe. If you have subclinical neuro inflammation that is preventing deeper sleep, this will help.

 

Always take any of this with a glass of water to ensure that it works well.

 

Both taurine and Excedrin help for sleep alone, especially if you have inflammation/calcium/glutamate issues, but combined is more powerful than either. Test both alone, and together. Test one Excedrin pill and two pills (one is generally for inflammation prevention, and two is generally to abort a migraine).

 

I always recommend taking anything at least one hour before bed to avoid the possibility of a negative effect on your sleep depth.

 

Either of these could temporarily hurt sexual performance to a degree if taken non-stop (taurine through prolactin stimulation and the acetaminophen through its effect on the liver), so take at least short breaks. Overall, if your sleep is the culprit, correcting that with these non addictive, non-hypnotic "meds" will be valuable enough to weather any possible minor side effects (which will dissipate once the supplementing has stopped).

 

Also, try to eat your last meal as early as possible to maximize the health value of your sleep. 

 

Next, you said:

 

Large doses of d3 nuke a large majority of my problems. I can “trust” my body again. My fragile emotional response vanishes, I become capable of normal interaction. My libido goes from entirely nonfunctional to low-normal. My back pain disappears to a large degree. Etc etc etc.

 

 

Your above-described positive experience, with Vitamin D, is also my experience with both calcium and glycine.

 

Taking Vitamin D and calcium isn't the same thing, but as you know Vitamin D does regulate calcium in a manner.

 

Our (my and your) shared response, triggerd via Vitamin D for you and calcium for me, had me recommend calcium to you to either allow you to avoid Vitamin D side effects, or to otherwise give you an option whose effect, on emotional stability for example, may be somewhat longer lasting (it is possible, but not guaranteed).

 

Calcium and glycine have crossover effects in my experience, on emotional stability for example. Possibly also on minor pain. Glycine is a co agonist with glutamate at the NMDA receptor.

 

I find glycine's emotional effect to be stronger than that of calcium, especially at first, and the initial sleep effects are fantastic even at a very low dose (a pinch). I get a sense that it helps to process tramatic experience to a degree, and to the degree that you stay sensitive to its action.

 

But the side effects are also worse on a relative scale with none of the side effects being intolerable.

 

The notable side effects of glycine doses over 250 mg taken on multiple consecutive days being migraine threshold reduction, but I will also begin to feel very subtly OCD. However, this dissipates after a couple of days and no OCD behaviors actually arise. It is just the very tip of the feeling that it triggers and it is very sublte. Note that I don't have OCD currently, but did for about ten years in my early youth and so can identify the feeling at a subtle level. It is likely trigggered due to excessive NMDA agonism from excessive glycine, which is also the likely culprit behind its migraine threhold reduction side effect that I realize when taking it at the above described amount and frequency..

 

For both calcium and glycine, the response for me both comes at a very low dose and diminishes with repeated doses unless spaced out. Luckily, the emotional effects seem to be at least somewhat persistent. Any side effects are more tolerable than the shallow sleep-depth symptom that Vitamin D started to give me over time. The side effects and low-dose positive effect are why I recommend the low dose.

 

As for Vitamin D and Vitamin A:

 

Repeatedly, I have noticed that Vitamin A eliminated Vitamin D side effects at a minimum dose of the former. I'm sure that someone, better than I, can explain the mechanism. They do seem to have opposing effects on calcium to a degree, which could mean that Vitamin A could replace your vitamin K use (I am not a fan of vitamin K, due to experience with a possible abdominal clot soon after starting it).

 

Perhaps combining vitamin A with D is a bit like taking an NMDA antagonist with an amphetamine to blunt tolerance, but also likely blunting the peak effect of either, and therefore blunting side effects. But that's obviously a loose analogy and a guess, and the truth is that I'm unsure as to the mechanism. 

 

https://academic.oup...12/2246/4722077

 

Vitamin A Antagonizes the Action of Vitamin D in Rats

 

 

I'd try reducing serotonin before trying LSD. Ray Peat has detractors here, likely due to the lay following that he inspires, but his articles on the topic are a good source of the reasoning of that recommendation.

 

In my opinion, psychedilics are the last thing that you should turn to if you have brain fog, disorganized thoughts, and fatigue.

 

Ideally and essentially, you are looking to train your brain to exhibit the opposite state that you will most often experience on psychedilics.

 

Consider only taking things that immediately improve your condition, as a rule of thumb toward at least partial lasting improvement.

 

That's why they give amphetamines to people with ADHD / Sluggish Congitive Tempo, and not hypnotics.

 

In children at least, that medication leads to some permanent positive change. You may not realize that permanent change as an adult, though you might be able to hold onto something. Who knows? But the principle applies and the evidence for the principle is there, at least in children.

 

You feel better on calcium pushing (mildly stimulating) vitamin D. That should tell you something. Now just look to compliment it by limiting side effects, maximizing continued sensitivity, finding complimentary supplements that you can stand to take (calcium, glycine?, etc) and maximizing the (loosely) opposite state during sleep toward ensuring improvement during waking hours. 

Edited by Ames, 12 September 2020 - 06:39 AM.

[experimenting]

I have a graduate medical science degree but am not a scientist nor doctor. I can write in jargon but generally don't like to attempt that here due to the fact that this board is heavy with people who are much better educated than I am. If I were to put effort in at this late hour, I could source citations to back up at least some of what I describe, but in truth most of my recommendations were founded on both my extensive experience in testing the supplements in question as well as some loose knoweldge in regard to their action. That's what my description will reflect.

I'll get as specific as I can as well as elaborate.

You mention a few things.

First, your wide ranging symptoms:


Most of that could be explained by a sleep issue or pre-diabetes. Both tend to have inflammation in common and there can be overlap in cause and effect.

Do you have unquenchable thirst issues that could indicate a sugar issue? Let me know. Don't forget.

Do you have noticeable sleep issues?

The priority should be to honestly assess and work on maximizing your sleep potential.

Take some supplements / OTC meds over a period of time to try and deepen sleep if you think it can be improved at all.

Practice sleep hygiene by, at the least, going to be before 11 pm every night. Closer to 9 pm is better.

Earlier bedtimes, assuming inflammation and excess glutamate/calcium aren't an issue and will not stymie sleep-depth regardless, should work to improve a flagging sugar sensitivity and your general hormonal profile.

Take a break from exercising to give your system a rest from the hormones that it stimulates, possible overtraining, and until you reach an equilibrium and are able to honestly assess your sleep at that point in time.

In my experience, consistency with certain substances improved my sleep cycle after about a decade of regular insomnia.

Notably, the GABA allosteric modulator taurine (500 mg per day, or 1 gram spaced apart by at least four hours and if needed), as well as a somewhat potent OTC neuro antinflammatory.

My favorite OTC pill, for the latter, is a combination-med that we have in the States called Excedrin. It is acetaminophen, aspirin, and caffeine. For a reason unknown to me, the combination has a unique anti-inflammatory effect that is better than any of the subtances in isolation. You should have that or something similar in Europe. If you have subclinical neuro inflammation that is preventing deeper sleep, this will help.

Always take any of this with a glass of water to ensure that it works well.

Both taurine and Excedrin help for sleep alone, especially if you have inflammation/calcium/glutamate issues, but combined is more powerful than either. Test both alone, and together. Test one Excedrin pill and two pills (one is generally for inflammation prevention, and two is generally to abort a migraine).

I always recommend taking anything at least one hour before bed to avoid the possibility of a negative effect on your sleep depth.

Either of these could temporarily hurt sexual performance to a degree if taken non-stop (taurine through prolactin stimulation and the acetaminophen through its effect on the liver), so take at least short breaks. Overall, if your sleep is the culprit, correcting that with these non addictive, non-hypnotic "meds" will be valuable enough to weather any possible minor side effects (which will dissipate once the supplementing has stopped).

Also, try to eat your last meal as early as possible to maximize the health value of your sleep.

Next, you said:


Your above-described positive experience, with Vitamin D, is also my experience with both calcium and glycine.

Taking Vitamin D and calcium isn't the same thing, but as you know Vitamin D does regulate calcium in a manner.

Our (my and your) shared response, triggerd via Vitamin D for you and calcium for me, had me recommend calcium to you to either allow you to avoid Vitamin D side effects, or to otherwise give you an option whose effect, on emotional stability for example, may be somewhat longer lasting (it is possible, but not guaranteed).

Calcium and glycine have crossover effects in my experience, on emotional stability for example. Possibly also on minor pain. Glycine is a co agonist with glutamate at the NMDA receptor.

I find glycine's emotional effect to be stronger than that of calcium, especially at first, and the initial sleep effects are fantastic even at a very low dose (a pinch). I get a sense that it helps to process tramatic experience to a degree, and to the degree that you stay sensitive to its action.

But the side effects are also worse on a relative scale with none of the side effects being intolerable.

The notable side effects of glycine doses over 250 mg taken on multiple consecutive days being migraine threshold reduction, but I will also begin to feel very subtly OCD. However, this dissipates after a couple of days and no OCD behaviors actually arise. It is just the very tip of the feeling that it triggers and it is very sublte. Note that I don't have OCD currently, but did for about ten years in my early youth and so can identify the feeling at a subtle level. It is likely trigggered due to excessive NMDA agonism from excessive glycine, which is also the likely culprit behind its migraine threhold reduction side effect that I realize when taking it at the above described amount and frequency..

For both calcium and glycine, the response for me both comes at a very low dose and diminishes with repeated doses unless spaced out. Luckily, the emotional effects seem to be at least somewhat persistent. Any side effects are more tolerable than the shallow sleep-depth symptom that Vitamin D started to give me over time. The side effects and low-dose positive effect are why I recommend the low dose.

As for Vitamin D and Vitamin A:

Repeatedly, I have noticed that Vitamin A eliminated Vitamin D side effects at a minimum dose of the former. I'm sure that someone, better than I, can explain the mechanism. They do seem to have opposing effects on calcium to a degree, which could mean that Vitamin A could replace your vitamin K use (I am not a fan of vitamin K, due to experience with a possible abdominal clot soon after starting it).

Perhaps combining vitamin A with D is a bit like taking an NMDA antagonist with an amphetamine to blunt tolerance, but also likely blunting the peak effect of either, and therefore blunting side effects. But that's obviously a loose analogy and a guess, and the truth is that I'm unsure as to the mechanism.


I'd try reducing serotonin before trying LSD. Ray Peat has detractors here, likely due to the lay following that he inspires, but his articles on the topic are a good source of the reasoning of that recommendation.

In my opinion, psychedilics are the last thing that you should turn to if you have brain fog, disorganized thoughts, and fatigue.

Ideally and essentially, you are looking to train your brain to exhibit the opposite state that you will most often experience on psychedilics.

Consider only taking things that immediately improve your condition, as a rule of thumb toward at least partial lasting improvement.

That's why they give amphetamines to people with ADHD / Sluggish Congitive Tempo, and not hypnotics.

In children at least, that medication leads to some permanent positive change. You may not realize that permanent change as an adult, though you might be able to hold onto something. Who knows? But the principle applies and the evidence for the principle is there, at least in children.

You feel better on calcium pushing (mildly stimulating) vitamin D. That should tell you something. Now just look to compliment it by limiting side effects, maximizing continued sensitivity, finding complimentary supplements that you can stand to take (calcium, glycine?, etc) and maximizing the (loosely) opposite state during sleep toward ensuring improvement during waking hours.

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

But really the weird thing I can’t solve is, why exactly one (now discontinued) brand works for me. Normal d3 doesn’t. What could be in the pill?

[Ames]

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

But really the weird thing I can’t solve is, why exactly one (now discontinued) brand works for me. Normal d3 doesn’t. What could be in the pill?

 

Try a third brand. If it works for you, the brand you are now trying may be weak / bad.

 

If it doesn't work for you, the first brand you tried could have been contaminated with something that was actually doing the work. Like a prohormone. That's common for supplements, and possibly more likely for a brand that was small enough to be discontinued. 

 

Also try different carriers (though, if I remember correctly, you said that you make your own oil carrier formulation). The format I prefer for Vitamin D is in olive oil carrier sold in a dropper bottle. Try a couple of different carrier formulations (tablets, oil, etc).

 

A third possibility is that while you realized initial benefit, something has been downregulated and now you will realize less benefit. Again, low dose Vitamin A (Retinyl Palmitate) supplementation might assist toward improiving that sensitivity to a degree while reducing side effects. It is worth a try.

 

A fourth possibility is that the benefit that you experienced was more of a rebound adaption to the Vitamin D. That is also common, but tends to be limited in terms of its potential / felt effect.

 

The last two possibilities are especially possible, in my experience, with anything that effects calcium, glutamate, or NMDA receptor agonism.

 

See here for a probable example from N-methylglycine supplementation: 

 

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/24797328/

 

Sarcosine preconditioning induces ischemic tolerance against global cerebral ischemia

 

 

Edited by Ames, 12 September 2020 - 07:06 PM.

[experimenting]

Try a third brand. If it works for you, the brand you are now trying may be weak / bad.

If it doesn't work for you, the first brand you tried could have been contaminated with something that was actually doing the work. Like a prohormone. That's common for supplements, and possibly more likely for a brand that was small enough to be discontinued.

Also try different carriers (though, if I remember correctly, you said that you make your own oil carrier formulation). The format I prefer for Vitamin D is in olive oil carrier sold in a dropper bottle. Try a couple of different carrier formulations (tablets, oil, etc).

A third possibility is that while you realized initial benefit, something has been downregulated and now you will realize less benefit. Again, low dose Vitamin A (Retinyl Palmitate) supplementation might assist toward improiving that sensitivity to a degree while reducing side effects. It is worth a try.

A fourth possibility is that the benefit that you experienced was more of a rebound adaption to the Vitamin D. That is also common, but tends to be limited in terms of its potential / felt effect.

The last two possibilities are especially possible, in my experience, with anything that effects calcium, glutamate, or NMDA receptor agonism.

See here for a probable example from N-methylglycine supplementation:

I have tried multiple brands, this is the only one that works for me.

There is no adaptation, I can cease for sometime and come right back and it works.

It’s the pro hormone theory I think is at play here. Obviously d3 is a hormone and its production can result in all sorts of by products. One of them may be working for me here.

I did a chemical analysis of the pills and didn’t detect anything though so...I’m at a dead end.

[Ames]

I have tried multiple brands, this is the only one that works for me.

There is no adaptation, I can cease for sometime and come right back and it works.

It’s the pro hormone theory I think is at play here. Obviously d3 is a hormone and its production can result in all sorts of by products. One of them may be working for me here.

I did a chemical analysis of the pills and didn’t detect anything though so...I’m at a dead end.

 

If no other brand works for you, and your old brand works continuously, then the obvious logic is that the brand you were using was contaminated with something.

 

That's the only logic that hasn't been falsified by your experience, in spite of your test. 

 

Unless you are proposing that the brand you were using is the only chemically true Vitamin D on the market. 

 

Otherwise, propose a different theory. It's not likely that anyone here will come up with a novel theory in addition to what has already been proposed.

 

Sorry that you are out of luck.

 

Assuming you have no luck, again work on sleep and inflammation.

 

You could try low dose calcium during the daytime. Try an irregular dosing schedule, at first.

 

People are also having good results with Niacinamide and Niacinamide + Riboside for conditions that crossover into your symptomology.

 

You could also test GABA supplementation toward stimulating the Klotho enzyme. I've had good luck with taking it in the early hours. Be ready to go back to bed, after.

 

That's probably all I can offer. Good luck.

Edited by Ames, 13 September 2020 - 04:55 PM.

[experimenting]

If no other brand works for you, and your old brand works continuously, then the obvious logic is that the brand you were using was contaminated with something.

That's the only logic that hasn't been falsified by your experience, in spite of your test.

Unless you are proposing that the brand you were using is the only chemically true Vitamin D on the market.

Otherwise, propose a different theory. It's not likely that anyone here will come up with a novel theory in addition to what has already been proposed.

Sorry that you are out of luck.

Assuming you have no luck, again work on sleep and inflammation.

You could try low dose calcium during the daytime. Try an irregular dosing schedule, at first.

People are also having good results with Niacinamide and Niacinamide + Riboside for conditions that crossover into your symptomology.

You could also test GABA supplementation toward stimulating the Klotho enzyme. I've had good luck with taking it in the early hours. Be ready to go back to bed, after.

That's probably all I can offer. Good luck.

Thanks.

I guess what I’m trying to find out is, what might it have been contaminated with? What prohormes are used to make D3 that could have been left over?

Thanks

[Ames]

Thanks.

I guess what I’m trying to find out is, what might it have been contaminated with? What prohormes are used to make D3 that could have been left over?

Thanks

 

Initially I wouldn't suspect anything involved in the manufacture of D3, though I also don't know enough about its manufacture to rule that out.

 

For contaminated supplements, the common assumptions tend to be:

 

1. Purposeful contamination with a prohormone / steroid to falsely convey to the consumer a sense of potency toward the resolution of symptoms or a better boost in performance (creatine is commonly contaminated), therefore promoting repeat sales.

 

2. Contamination of equipment somewhere in the manufacturing or packaging line, due to the manufacturer or packager using the same uncleaned equipment for multiple supplements.

 

I'd suspect a contaminant that is slightly more potent than anything involved in the manufacture of D3. Though, again, a chemist could better speak to the possibility of badly manufactured D3 giving the effects that you describe.

Edited by Ames, 13 September 2020 - 07:18 PM.

[experimenting]

Initially I wouldn't suspect anything involved in the manufacture of D3, though I also don't know enough about its manufacture to rule that out.

For contaminated supplements, the common assumptions tend to be:

1. Purposeful contamination with a prohormone / steroid to falsely convey to the consumer a sense of potency toward the resolution of symptoms or a better boost in performance (creatine is commonly contaminated), therefore promoting repeat sales.

2. Contamination of equipment somewhere in the manufacturing or packaging line, due to the manufacturer or packager using the same uncleaned equipment for multiple supplements.

I'd suspect a contaminant that is slightly more potent than anything involved in the manufacture of D3. Though, again, a chemist could better speak to the possibility of badly manufactured D3 giving the effects that you describe.

Thanks, any idea what steroid?

And I’ll speak to a chemist too if I can.

[Ames]

Thanks, any idea what steroid?

And I’ll speak to a chemist too if I can.

 

It's anyone's guess. If they were doing this, it would likely be whatever they were able to gain access to that was inexpensive.

 

It could be anything from a small amount of testosterone, to corticosteroid, to anything commonly used spanning the spheres of atheltic enhancement to bodybuilding. But, again, probably inexpensive and probably just a minimal amount. Corticosteroid could be a reasonable first hypothesis. 

 

It is nothing that I would aim ro return to, though. Especially given your lack of success with TRT (from what I can glean of your profile is isn't likely that a doctor is going to put you on long term coricosteroid, and you would not want that).

 

If you do suspect corticosteroid, again, look to other methods of inflammation reduction and improving sleep quality.

Edited by Ames, 13 September 2020 - 09:20 PM.

[experimenting]

It's anyone's guess. If they were doing this, it would likely be whatever they were able to gain access to that was inexpensive.

It could be anything from a small amount of testosterone, to corticosteroid, to anything commonly used spanning the spheres of atheltic enhancement to bodybuilding. But, again, probably inexpensive and probably just a minimal amount. Corticosteroid could be a reasonable first hypothesis.

It is nothing that I would aim ro return to, though. Especially given your lack of success with TRT (from what I can glean of your profile is isn't likely that a doctor is going to put you on long term coricosteroid, and you would not want that).

If you do suspect corticosteroid, again, look to other methods of inflammation reduction and improving sleep quality.

Haha yeah,

I want to test prednisone. If that works for me, then we know massive systemic inflammation is the problem. Can go from there, what do you think?

[Ames]

Haha yeah,

I want to test prednisone. If that works for me, then we know massive systemic inflammation is the problem. Can go from there, what do you think?

 

With steroids, we're now officially out of realm of comfort for giving any advice. Sorry about that. I just don't have the expertise or experience. 

 

I do have a lot of experience with dealing with systemic inflammation, but have never used steroids to that end (aside from their natural stimulation via eating, which can be a nasty impulse in those with inflammation toward reducing it).

 

I regulalry manage inflammation with:

 

taurine

Excedrin

sleep (both natural and induced)

avoidance of inflammatory triggers

 

inflammation reducing supplements I use on occassion / as needed:

 

inositol hexaphosphate

sulforaphane

capryclic acid

activated charcoal

niacinamide

vitamin A (sometimes with D, sometimes without)

 

If you want to further discuss non-steroidal inflammation management at any point, feel free to be in touch.

[Ames]

Haha yeah,

I want to test prednisone. If that works for me, then we know massive systemic inflammation is the problem. Can go from there, what do you think?

 

I would consider at least two weeks of at least .5 grams of caprylic acid per day, to rule out infection. 

 

You could run the trial with a prescription antibiotic, but I offer that caprylic acid is easier to obtain and safer to trial both in terms of side effects and preserving your sensitivity to important antibiotics. 

 

I find it to be as effective as a fairly wide spectrum prescription antiobiotic for minor viral and perhaps bacterial infections. You also need to take it like you would a prescription antibiotic. It takes a few days for the effect to build, and you should generally run a full course of it like you would an antibiotic to realize its potential.

Edited by Ames, 14 September 2020 - 02:06 AM.

[experimenting]

I would consider at least two weeks of at least .5 grams of caprylic acid per day, to rule out infection.

You could run the trial with a prescription antibiotic, but I offer that caprylic acid is easier to obtain and safer to trial both in terms of side effects and preserving your sensitivity to important antibiotics.

I find it to be as effective as a fairly wide spectrum prescription antiobiotic for minor viral and perhaps bacterial infections. You also need to take it like you would a prescription antibiotic. It takes a few days for the effect to build, and you should generally run a full course of it like you would an antibiotic to realize its potential.

I’m surprised it could be a lifelong infection-I doubt that’s the case.

Some kind of calcium issue might be it. Or inflammation.

[Ames]

I’m surprised it could be a lifelong infection-I doubt that’s the case.

Some kind of calcium issue might be it. Or inflammation.

 

Certain viral infections can be life-long even with treatment.

 

Specific other infections may not completely subside unless infection-specific treatment is given.

 

The caprylic acid likely wouldn't be curative for either possibility. Though, there is a good chance it could temporarily reduce a virus in your system or otherwise generally reduce any specific ongoing challenge to your immune system (a challenge that may be causing raised and ongoing inflammation).

 

If you realize some increased clarity after a couple of weeks on it, then that may indicate that more tests in that direction could be a way to go.

 

It may be a worthwhile trial before corticosteroid treatment, for example. The latter which could mask the symptoms of an infection. Depending on the infection, corticosteroids even could make it worse. Especially over a longer medicating period. 

Edited by Ames, 14 September 2020 - 06:28 PM.

[experimenting]

Certain viral infections can be life-long even with treatment.

Specific other infections may not completely subside unless infection-specific treatment is given.

The caprylic acid likely wouldn't be curative for either possibility. Though, there is a good chance it could temporarily reduce a virus in your system or otherwise generally reduce any specific ongoing challenge to your immune system (a challenge that may be causing raised and ongoing inflammation).

If you realize some increased clarity after a couple of weeks on it, then that may indicate that more tests in that direction could be a way to go.

It may be a worthwhile trial before corticosteroid treatment, for example. The latter which could mask the symptoms of an infection. Depending on the infection, corticosteroids even could make it worse. Especially over a longer medicating period.

Cool, going to have at this and see how we go.

[experimenting]

I give up guys.

Nothing about my body works like it is supposed to. I have aged well but really that’s because I just look like a boy still. I have brain fog, disorganized thoughts, zero libido, anhedonia, constant pain/hyperalgesia, no reason to get up in the morning.

There’s no point working out, I won’t lose fat or gain muscle, I’ll just keep getting fatter and fatter. I can’t get stronger, I can’t look better, I can’t feel good, and upon realizing all this the depression is kicking in.

I am contemplating what to do now. Life just isn’t worth living.
I am not even sure what lab test I should look at as a first cut for my issues.

[Gal220]

Go see a few functional doctors and stick with the one that seems the most intelligent(huge gaps from one doctor to the next sometimes)

 

They wont charge you much for initial consultation and they will run the blood work to figure out your deficiencies.

 

Heres an example of a guy working through the issues of an autistic child .

 

 

If you need to stay with your insurance, ask your primary to refer you to a geneticist or endocrinologist , lots of testing available that wasnt just a few years ago.

 

 

[experimenting]

Go see a few functional doctors and stick with the one that seems the most intelligent(huge gaps from one doctor to the next sometimes)

They wont charge you much for initial consultation and they will run the blood work to figure out your deficiencies.

Heres an example of a guy working through the issues of an autistic child .


If you need to stay with your insurance, ask your primary to refer you to a geneticist or endocrinologist , lots of testing available that wasnt just a few years ago.

I wouldn’t know what to even start with.

I went to a chronic fatigue doc and he just wants me to do high dose IV vitamins. Obviously I’m pretty sure this approach will go nowhere.

At some point you just have to give up.

[Gal220]

Nope, I have an autistic child Im working with and always trying new things and reading up as much as I can.  

 

A good doctor will help you do an elmination diet and run the right blood work to determine any problems.  I would consult with 2 or 3 and go with the best one.

Edited by Gal220, 24 September 2020 - 01:40 PM.

[experimenting]

Nope, I have an autistic child Im working with and always trying new things and reading up as much as I can.

A good doctor will help you do an elmination diet and run the right blood work to determine any problems. I would consult with 2 or 3 and go with the best one.

I’ve started, but I’m not hopeful. We shall see.

I just can’t remember a single day in my life in which I was “normal” my problems are so multi factorial that at some point you just give up hope.

This weird brand of D3 gave me a glimmer of hope and got me far along, but that brand has been changed/discontinued and I’m back to square one, sadly.

After all the things I have tried my suspicion is something is off with my calcium signaling, but I have no clue how to test for/diagnose this.

[experimenting]

I took LSD two days ago.

Still processing it, but some parts of it restored my function almost entirely. No pain, relaxed, no anhedonia, crazy libido.

Obviously it’s unsustainable but maybe this leads me in the right direction.

[Gal220]

I would have gone with something like CBD oil instead, at least sustainable.

 

If you think it is something to do with calcium, try Jarrows Bone Up or Thorns Oscap, they tried to include everything calcium related.

 

I would try a different multis that have preformed nutrients like VitaminIQ and Thornes 2 a day which will help overcome genetic issues.   Plus a source of omegas, nordics phospholipids is best form.

[experimenting]

I tried a Lichen derived d3 and got wildly different effects than the wool derived version.

Still not the life-changing effects from the old product but gives some credence to my theory that the chemistry of Vitamin D and associated sterols is poorly understood.

I am at a loss as to where to go from here. One thing that might work would be to send the GCMS results to a chemist and get some answers, but I am running out of the willpower to continue on what seems like a quixotic and absurd task.

[Gal220]

Liposomal Vitamin D3 from quicksilver 

 

I still think finding a good functional practitioner is your best bet.

 

Most larger hospitals have a hormone and genetics specialist as well, both worth checking out.

[Logic]

Applying a little er...  logic:

A quick search for:
sterols vitamin D
brings up related:
calcitriol, alfacalcidol, and doxercalciferol
just for a start.

​At a guess I would say that you/your system are not turning Vit D into one of these (possibly due to a genetic defect) and thus you have a shortage of one of them.

ie: 
Research vit D related sterols and where to get them and try them.
​You should then be able to narrow it down and find the 1 your sys isn't producing
Taking that 1 (or 2-3) should then allow you to stop ODing plain old D3.
 

Edited by Logic, 03 November 2020 - 05:43 AM.

[ZiggyStar]

Read this book reviews. Then the book.

 

https://www.amazon.c...s/dp/0061174300

 

It changed my life. Just so you know, I am known in work, family and friends to be extremely skeptical...

[experimenting]

Read this book reviews. Then the book.

https://www.amazon.c...s/dp/0061174300

It changed my life. Just so you know, I am known in work, family and friends to be extremely skeptical...

Yeah, I don’t think writing about my feelings is going to solve my cluster of issues

[ZiggyStar]

I'll tell you how it goes. You endless search for supplements, medical procedures, diagnostics for years and years. To no avail. All lab results come normal. The depression and pain is almost constant (one or the other, sometimes both). The pain migrates: a tendinitis in the wrist for some months, back pain that tends to stay, shoulder pain for some weeks, headache, digestion issues... Your all life is devoted to end this. But nothing really works. 

I sincerely whish you all the best but if you have what I think you do, you won't find the answers in pills!

Best luck man. Hope I am wrong.

PS - And let me guess: you are a perfectionist that had a strict education from one or both of your parents. They tend to be. 

 

 

Edited by ZiggyStar, 09 November 2020 - 05:15 PM.

[Gal220]

I sincerely whish you all the best but if you have what I think you do, you won't find the answers in pills!

 

Not sure you read the entire thread, but he was having some resolution from a certain vitamin D supplement.

 

Maybe pills arent the complete solution, but he already knows at least 1 did help.