• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
- - - - -

Beta adrenergic receptors antagonist (Beta blockers) supplements

beta blocker adrenergic receptors antagonist epinephrine blocker

  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 dan1882

  • Guest
  • 11 posts
  • 3
  • Location:Italy

Posted 16 March 2021 - 08:40 PM


Hey everyone.

I suffer for lifetime on light anxiety but a 10 years + on severe social anxiety. The most annoying part are the physical symptoms like trembling, brain frog, shortness of breath, heart racing which fire the loop of pain.I cant eat in a restaurant in front of people, it stress me to dead.

I tried a lot of different supplements which increase gaba, lower glutamate and other stuff, but i wish i could find anything which is working similar like a beta blocker, beta adrenergic receptors antagonist.

 

Can anyone recommend me a supplement please ? It hasnt to be exactly a beta blocker, if there are other tricks to slow down the adrenal gland or some paths between to lower epinephrine attacks im fine aswell. 

 

I know the best way would be get a prescription, but recently i have so much fear, im not able to get to the doctor (or any other meetings) and he is a asshole anyway and the chances arent as good aswell.


Edited by dan1882, 16 March 2021 - 08:42 PM.

  • like x 1

#2 ta5

  • Guest
  • 952 posts
  • 324
  • Location: 

Posted 16 March 2021 - 11:08 PM

I'm similar. Here are some other angles on the problem:
 
Reduce Tyramine in your diet. Tyramine is a catecholamine releasing agent. Less Tyramine, less norepinephrine. Lots of foods have Tyramine. Google "headache diet".
Avoid COMT inhibitors. COMT helps break down catecholamines, so you want more COMT, not less.
Avoid MAO inhibitors for the same reason.
Lots of different supplements and foods, like tea, have varying degrees of COMT and MAO inhibition. 
If you can find anything to increase COMT or MAO, that might help. Supposedly Ginkgo and B2 might a little bit.
 
I like these. You probably know about these:
 
Taurine (way underestimated supplement)
Magnesium (of course)
L-Theanine
GABA (people say it just breaks down in your gut and doesn't get to your brain, but I think it helps, and might be good for elastin)
Glutamine (people say it can convert to Glutamate, but I think they are wrong. I think it helps counter Glutamate.)
High-dose Inositol
Gotu Kola
Bacopa
Ashwagandha
Low-dose Lithium
 
There are lots of other "adaptogens" like Holy Basil, Lemon Balm, Eleuthero, Skullcap, that might be good too. I always worry about tolerance and down-regulating my GABA receptors, but I haven't really seen it with what I'm taking. I didn't like Rhodiola.

  • Informative x 1
  • Disagree x 1

sponsored ad

  • Advert
Advertisements help to support the work of this non-profit organisation. To go ad-free join as a Member.

#3 kurdishfella

  • Guest
  • 2,397 posts
  • -71
  • Location:russia
  • NO

Posted 17 March 2021 - 05:17 PM

Look into the crhr1 gene. The more crhr1 you have the more pshyical reactions and health suffers. I have a thread on how to decrease it. I suggest to try out Lithium you can get it as a supplement it dereases crhr1. beta blockers are useless because theres more to anxiety than just what they block/do and you need to stop the full proccess of anxiety including start not just the end , the start meaning WHY the pshyical symtomps come.

Edited by kurdishfella, 17 March 2021 - 05:22 PM.

  • Informative x 1

#4 dan1882

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 11 posts
  • 3
  • Location:Italy

Posted 17 March 2021 - 05:42 PM

Thanks for your answers.

Wow there is a lot of information i didnt know and im working a long time on a solution. This forum is really great, with a lot of experienced people.

 

 

 

I'm similar. Here are some other angles on the problem:
 
Reduce Tyramine in your diet. Tyramine is a catecholamine releasing agent. Less Tyramine, less norepinephrine. Lots of foods have Tyramine. Google "headache diet".
Avoid COMT inhibitors. COMT helps break down catecholamines, so you want more COMT, not less.
Avoid MAO inhibitors for the same reason.
Lots of different supplements and foods, like tea, have varying degrees of COMT and MAO inhibition. 
If you can find anything to increase COMT or MAO, that might help. Supposedly Ginkgo and B2 might a little bit.
 
I like these. You probably know about these:
 
Taurine (way underestimated supplement)
Magnesium (of course)
L-Theanine
GABA (people say it just breaks down in your gut and doesn't get to your brain, but I think it helps, and might be good for elastin)
Glutamine (people say it can convert to Glutamate, but I think they are wrong. I think it helps counter Glutamate.)
High-dose Inositol
Gotu Kola
Bacopa
Ashwagandha
Low-dose Lithium
 
There are lots of other "adaptogens" like Holy Basil, Lemon Balm, Eleuthero, Skullcap, that might be good too. I always worry about tolerance and down-regulating my GABA receptors, but I haven't really seen it with what I'm taking. I didn't like Rhodiola.

 

 

I have almost all of your mentioned supplements at home, beside Lithium, Inositol and Bacopa (but bacopa in a stack). Not all i tried frequently and some need to be taken longer, so i dont know if they work for me or not.

 

Taurine i feeled not a lot of difference, but maybe i took to little doses like 1000 mg single dose daylie or maybe 2000mg.

Magnesium (glycinate) i definitly feel something but slightly weak.

L-Theanine was good at the beginning, maybe i build up tolerance from that stuff from overdosing to 1g daylie.

Glutamine, well feels not as bad at higher doses, but i really fear from glutamate, because i think even a bigger amount get converted to gaba, though the level of glutamate increases until some point. So i was looking for some alternatives like Picamilon or plain Gaba even if very low amount should end in the brain.

Gotu Kola (standardized) i feeled very little difference, maybe should be taken for a longer time. 

Lemon Balm (standardized) i dont feeled a lot of difference i think, i took it a long time but somehow it got worse after time. 

 

At the beginning i used a comb like Ashwagandha + L-Theanine + Phosphatidylserine. It was working very well, but at some time i build up tolerance or down regulation (i dont know) and everything got worse for me (even worse then normal). But semi part for sure was my brain which got panic because i have seen my daylie relief doesnt work anymore. Anyway i would have been open to try Ashwagandha again but with weekly cycle this time maybe, i dont know.

 

The informations about Tyramine, COMT are very interesting, Thanks.

At the moment i am trying Rhodiola Rosea, unluckily a MAO inhibitor. It looks like a lot adoptgens are MAOi s even, Ashwagandha seem to be according examine if i remember well.

 

Look into the crhr1 gene. The more crhr1 you have the more pshyical reactions and health suffers. I have a thread on how to decrease it. I suggest to try out Lithium you can get it as a supplement it dereases crhr1. beta blockers are useless because theres more to anxiety than just what they block/do.

 

Thats very interesting.

Unluckily im not able to get Lithium, it looks like very hard to get in my country. Are there any other supplements which could help with the crhr1 gene ?

So far unluckily i havent done a dna test because its so expensive and if i do one i would like to do a full genome test (so i unluckily dont know if something wrong with my crhr1).

Yeah its true beta blocker dont do anything with anxiety, but the physical symptoms stop me from get healed. I cant do anything normal infront of people because i fear of my physical symptoms. All my anxiety is fed by the fear of my physical symptoms. Witouth them i feel i could learn to get normal, because my fear of other people is after so many years not so big anymore and all i need is courage and experience but i cant have good experience if my physical symptoms make me look like a idiot each time.

Sorry i just have seen your edit now, yeah your absolutly true. The main goal is to fix the social anxiety, i think im able to do that if i can get my physical symptoms fixed.


Edited by dan1882, 17 March 2021 - 05:58 PM.


#5 dan1882

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 11 posts
  • 3
  • Location:Italy

Posted 24 March 2021 - 09:55 AM

At the moment i try to discover if a Vitamin/Mineral deficiency could lead to my anxiety attacks from Social anxiety. So i supplement each of those: magnesium, zinc, Vitamin D + K, iron, iodine, selenium, calcium (already took slightly bigger doses of b vitamins and omega 3) one after each other for a week at a slightly higher dose like 100-200% recommended daylie allowance. As side note i did blood sample tests 8 years ago (already "sick") and iron, b12 was a bit on lower end and TSH pretty high, but ft3 and ft4 normal. Thyroid is fine maybe just a bit hypo, because of that i try iodine and selenium.

I have ordered aswell some Lithium orotate and maybe get some holy basil, i dont know (if it can desensitize crh response - stress). 

 

@ta5 according some claims ginkgo does not seem to increase mao, it might act as a mao inhibitor. Maybe Sam-e can help with comt ?

But im not 100% sure if increasing the breakdown of catecholamines or mao is the right way. Im probably low in Dopamine, low Gaba, high Serotonin, high glutamate, but hard to say. 

 

Crhr1 i need to do a lot more research. At the moment i am trying aswell to do deeper research on the whole fight and flight response stuff.

Found some intersting stuff:

Fear2.png?resize=800%2C786&ssl=1

Adrenal-Pathway-768x576.jpg

acth.png

 

So it appears to fully calm down the fight and flight it requires to work on multiple pathways like calm Sympathetic Nervous System(SNS) and HPA axis (calming adrenal medulla might not be enough).

The best way would be to shut down fear - the activation of Amygdala but that seem to be not as easy. Crhr1 seem to be most likely working on the HPA axis, shutting down this pathway may could help with fight and flight response but on the last picture if i understood it correctly blocking cortisol could have adverse effects because the negative feedback loop is interrupted to calm the whole cycle down aswell (its questionable if crh could calm hypothalamus enough to calm SNS connection). Though a lot of stress (psychic + physic) leads to higher Cortisol which might feed adrenaline&noradrenaline.

So calming stress (crh may ?) might be one part of the solution as long it isnt completly blocking the negative feedback loop check if Testosterone Estrogene are on normal levels. Another part would be calming the SNS, which look to be a bit harder (gabaergics may could help).

 

Anyway i feel like im far away from "solution" and all effort is not enough to fix or eather lower physical response. 

Maybe i should try to get some beta blockers illegaly and break the whole cycle at the beginning. Witouth physical symptoms there is no visible fear and witouth visible fear there is no vicious circle and witouth a cricle there is no infinity...


Edited by dan1882, 24 March 2021 - 10:49 AM.


#6 ta5

  • Guest
  • 952 posts
  • 324
  • Location: 

Posted 24 March 2021 - 01:55 PM

@ta5 according some claims ginkgo does not seem to increase mao, it might act as a mao inhibitor. Maybe Sam-e can help with comt ?

But im not 100% sure if increasing the breakdown of catecholamines or mao is the right way. Im probably low in Dopamine, low Gaba, high Serotonin, high glutamate, but hard to say. 

 

I took SAMe for a long time, and I can't say it helped. I think you need to be careful with SAMe and other methyl doners:

 

From: COMT – A gene that affects your neurotransmitter levels

"Clinicians often suggest that those with the rs4680 A/A genotype (lower COMT levels) avoid going overboard with foods and supplements that are considered methyl donors. Methyl donors include methylcobalamin (methyl-B12), curcumin, TMG, SAMe, theanine, and choline.[ref]  The logic behind this suggestion is that overwhelming the pathway with too many methyl groups can lead to a sudden rise and subsequent fall in dopamine levels — causing mood swings, anger, or anxiety."

I still take B12, TMG, theanine, and choline though.


  • Informative x 1

#7 dan1882

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 11 posts
  • 3
  • Location:Italy

Posted 24 March 2021 - 03:18 PM

I remember in the past i did some blood samples (morning) and had high cortisol but aswell high DHEA. Maybe some kind of overactive adrenals (at that time i was so damn tired ~ adrenal fatique, but today i feel less tired but more hyperactive), i dont know. 

Slow COMT seem to cause high estrogene and i have Gynecomastia type 1, so some kind of dysfunction on COMT seem to be likely. Or maybe from drinking a lot of beer in the past who knows :).

 

Some other supplements which according some site seem to be good to support comt:

B vitamins
Magnesium
Marine phytonutrients
 
+ Sam-e but like @ta5 said care on that + methylated B vitamins.

Edited by dan1882, 24 March 2021 - 04:17 PM.


#8 ta5

  • Guest
  • 952 posts
  • 324
  • Location: 

Posted 30 March 2021 - 04:08 AM

If you don't know your COMT genes, it might be interesting to get a 23andme, or other, test and get your methylation report from geneticgenie.org.


  • Good Point x 1

#9 dan1882

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 11 posts
  • 3
  • Location:Italy

Posted 30 March 2021 - 04:43 AM

If you don't know your COMT genes, it might be interesting to get a 23andme, or other, test and get your methylation report from geneticgenie.org.

Id like to do that, but only a whole genome sequencing would make sense and that costs to much. Even 23andme adviced me not to buy their test because they said for health reasons the accuracy isnt good enough and not all variants are checked.
Anyway if i would have a mutation for any gene its not 100% sure its out of control.

Though im 100% sure something in my dna is forcing my anxiety. Maybe i do myheritage because its on sale at amazon, i dont know.

Or i use the money to buy some supplements on iherb and check if they help :).

Edited by dan1882, 30 March 2021 - 05:00 AM.


#10 dan1882

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 11 posts
  • 3
  • Location:Italy

Posted 14 June 2021 - 09:31 PM

I took SAMe for a long time, and I can't say it helped. I think you need to be careful with SAMe and other methyl doners:

 

From: COMT – A gene that affects your neurotransmitter levels

"Clinicians often suggest that those with the rs4680 A/A genotype (lower COMT levels) avoid going overboard with foods and supplements that are considered methyl donors. Methyl donors include methylcobalamin (methyl-B12), curcumin, TMG, SAMe, theanine, and choline.[ref]  The logic behind this suggestion is that overwhelming the pathway with too many methyl groups can lead to a sudden rise and subsequent fall in dopamine levels — causing mood swings, anger, or anxiety."

I still take B12, TMG, theanine, and choline though.

 

I have done my dna test. looks like i have low comt.

rs4680 A/A

rs4633 T/T

rs769224 GG fine

 

unluckily Myheritage does not include maoa snps. Could be...

But for COMT i still havnt found any good supplement, b9 i already take in big dose from multivitamine. I would have interested to try SAMe because its the only "effective" mentioned.

 

But i thought methylated b vitamins can help with comt activity ?

 

Edit:

Crhr1
rs17689882  AG

rs393152  GA

 

MAOA

rs1137070 TT

rs2064070 AA

rs979605 AA
 

Not many more given unluckily, but those are the bad genes of them are available.


Edited by dan1882, 14 June 2021 - 09:56 PM.


sponsored ad

  • Advert
Advertisements help to support the work of this non-profit organisation. To go ad-free join as a Member.

#11 sjd88383jdjxj388

  • Registrant
  • 9 posts
  • 5
  • Location:Internet

Posted 08 January 2022 - 03:25 PM

The only way to sustainably undo chronic stress/anxiety is to fix the underlying HPA axis dysfunction, the progressive sensitisation of the stress hormone system leading to all the adrenaline being pumped out. CRF1 and Vasopressin-1B (which form a heteromer in the pituitary) are the core gatekeepers of this positive feedback look. We're doing a group-buy for a Vasopressin-1B antagonist right now. Join this Discord for more info and to participate: https://discord.gg/nMVheHgrgr
  • Informative x 1





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: beta blocker, adrenergic receptors antagonist, epinephrine blocker

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users