281 replies to this topic

[opales]

What I said was res was the main ingredient that gave the benefits. I never said it was the only good thing out there or the only good thing in wine or grapes. Opales came up with a rip snorting "no it isn't" to refute my statement but that has been quietly rebutted by the facts. It's hard to argue with a study that used pure res and got the results we've all heard about.

I've noticed a stimulant effect with res when I started taking it though I've gotten used to it now. I recently upped my dose from 20mg to 40mg per day and found it harder to get to sleep and to sleep well. I'm hoping it will wear off or that I'll get used to it after a while. I can only imagine taking 400mg a day like some folks.

I said "no it hasn't" meaning it has not been "fairly well established". I don't thing it is outrageous to say resveratrol is the main ingredient, but there are questions marks, and you really should not making such authorative statements on an issue where you are clearly not the expert (or any other issue for that matter). For example, the latest meta-analysis found almost comparable (to red wine) mortality reduction for any type of alcohol (though still bit of an open question). Wine is usually consumed in more civilised manner (with meals and spaced through the day) which alone might explain the difference, although I personally doubt that is the whole truth. Stephen just cited a study which claimed the French Paradox may not have anything to do with resveratrol, but procyanidins (although I thought they were too confident in their analysis too)

"With resveratrol you'd need to drink 1000 litres of red wine or so to have any chance of affecting longevity," says Corder. "But procyanidins are so potent that drinking just one glass a day would have an effect."

Plus all the stuff zoo pointed out.

[drewm1000]

Today I received a shipment of Biotivia's 500 mg. "Bioforte" product and I wanted to provide the forum with my observations. I was skeptical when I noticed that nowhere on the invoice did the company name appear; rather, the invoice was issued from "Far East Century Pte Ltd" based in Singapore. The shipping contact is a Mr. Chester Ang. Although I was billed $99 for the shipment (3 bottles x 60 capsules each), the invoice reported "USD15.00." In parantheses, next to the amount, it adds "Custom Purpose" which I surmise to mean that the real cost of the supplement was underreported to avoid payment of customs. Not confidence-inspiring. There is an FDA Registration Number (13311236636).

The various posts by the user "maxhealth" definitely raised more doubts than they quelled. There is, in fact, a website up for biotivia (http://www.biotivia....tus/default.php) but it appears that it was launched recently--perhaps to offset the "sketchiness" of the bioflu.com site. I can find no information substantiating an independent assay on the website. I understand that manufacturing nowadays tends to be out-sourced, but this seems to contradict maxhealth's claim that Biotivia is an industrial supplier of raw resveratrol. I join other users in asking that maxhealth (I presume you are James Betz, the Managing Director of Biotivia according to the website) and/or the company substantiate its assay claims. The website, the product labeling, nor the invoice/accompanying product information provide any assay results. I'm inclined to share others' skepticism that at best Bioforte is simply a purified Polygonum Cuspidatum extract from traditional Chinese herbalist sources. I would welcome clarifying information, including why maxhealth is reporting (typically positive) anecdotal evidence from resveratrol supplementation while he also claims to be Biotivia's director. Seems like a big conflict of interest and reeks of fish.

[maxhealth]

Your continued attacks on my credibility and on our products and company compel me to post a reply, in spite of stern advice to ignore you from people whose judgment I respect. I will address your comments one by one.

In regard to the customs invoice; if you knew a bit more about these things you would understand that the retail price of a product rarely corresponds to the customs value. There is nothing unusual about this whether it inspires your confidence or not. If you would focus on the product rather than speculate on the paperwork your post would be somewhat more credible. Secondly, in regard to Far East Century, who you again speculate about absent any knowledge of this firm’s function, position or relationship to our product or firm; this company is an affiliate of ours located in Singapore and not a subcontractor as you imply. Far East Century assists us with a variety of important matters including shipping from our facility there to the US and Europe. We do not subcontract or out source the manufacturing of Bioforte or any other product. Also contrary to your implications, our company name and address is clearly stated on the bottle’s label. Our FDA registration number, which is also on the label, can easily be associated with our company and product name and facility.

In regard to my alleged “conflict of interest” pertaining to the posting of my observations while on a high-dosage resveratrol program; first, I clearly identified myself as associated with Bioforte in my very first posting. Contrary to your implications, no effort was made to deceive anyone or obscure this fact. Everyone who reads my posts is fully capable of evaluating them in light of this disclosure. Secondly, the effects I have reported are entirely consistent with those experienced by others on such a program, and they are by no means all positive, as you suggest.

In regard to your speculations about Biotivia all I can say is that they are just that, speculations. I could just as well speculate that you are associated with my competitor, who I will not identify but most people who read this post will certainly recognize. Why else are you so intent on denigrating our company and our products?

Everything stated on our site is true, accurate and we stand behind every claim and specification stated on the site. Our products are everything that we represent them to be and more. We describe Bioforte as containing 500mg whereas the Pfizer size 0 Vcap we fill actually holds closer to 560mg. We state our trans-resveratrol content to be 250mg whereas it normally exceeds 270mg. If you have the product in your possession why don't you simply weigh it yourself and you will see that this is true. We could just as well put 500mg of active ingredient in our capsule and fill the balance with silica (sand) as virtually all other supplement companies do. If we chose to do this we would realise significant cost savings. Given that our raw material costs have increased by 100% since we priced Bioforte and we have not increased our prices and do not intend to do so the incentive certainly exists for us to use fillers.

Your speculations regarding the processing our our products reflect your apparent lack of knowledge of what is entailed in producing Bioforte or any other phyto-based supplement. There is far more to this process than simply purifying polygonum cuspidatum and filling capsules. Do you suggest that some other source of resveratrol is superior to polygonum? If so, what source is that and why was it not used in virtually all studies since 1994?

In regard to independent analysis of our products, we have submitted Bioforte to Consumer Labs for testing in their upcoming resveratrol products test off. We are content to accept their judgment of our product. It is unlikely that anything short of that will satisfy you. We are also working on a “Quality” section which will be posted on the Biotivia.com site in which we will include independent HPLC test results. Our current tests were conducted by labs in Singapore and India. The new tests will be done in a US lab.

We are confident that Bioforte is the highest-quality, most potent trans-resveratrol product being manufactured anywhere. It is also by far the best value per milligram of trans-resveratrol and contains the highest trans to cis isomer of any product. If you can provide evidence to the contrary I invite you to do so. Absent such evidence please have the common decency to limit your posts to issues of fact or at least issues about which you have some specific knowledge or expertise vs. derogatory speculations. Also please identify yourself and your affiliations. I am proud of our products and stake my personal credibility and reputation as a scientist and ethical person on them. James Betz

[FunkOdyssey]

We are confident that Bioforte is the highest-quality, most potent trans-resveratrol product being manufactured anywhere. It is also by far the best value per milligram of trans-resveratrol and contains the highest trans to cis isomer of any product. If you can provide evidence to the contrary I invite you to do so. Absent such evidence please have the common decency to limit your posts to issues of fact or at least issues about which you have some specific knowledge or expertise vs. derogatory speculations. Also please identify yourself and your affiliations. I am proud of our products and stake my personal credibility and reputation as a scientist and ethical person on them. James Betz

If you wanted to earn any respect or credibility around here, you blew it immediately with the blatant lie in your first post:

The product used in this study is called Bioforte, it is a 500mg pure resveratrol formulation with over 250mg of the trans isomer. It is being sold to the public now at http://www.bioflu.co...rte/default.php. I am the general manager of the company. Until about one month ago we only sold resveratrol to labs and research institutes. Bioforte is the highest potentcy resveratrol product available and the only one that allows a user to replicate the dosages used in the recent studies on mice.

I'm telling you, this is the wrong community to peddle your wares. We have already been victimized by smarter and more sophisticated brands of dishonest commercialism. Suspicion is at an all-time high, tolerance for BS claims is at an all-time low, and what may initially look like a great marketing opportunity quickly turns into a google-indexed public relations nightmare.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 23 January 2007 - 06:46 PM.

[tom a]

Personally, I'm going to wait for Bioforte's products to be tested by Consumer Labs.

That's the proof of the pudding, I think.

I'm actually less concerned about whether it has 250mg of trans-resveratrol in it -- it certainly seems plausible that it does, given the underlying cost of 50% trans-resveratrol extract -- and more concerned about what the remainder of the 250mg (or so) consists of.

Is the other stuff potentially toxic? Potentially neutralizers of trans-reservatrol? At least it would be useful to know exactly what it IS composed of.

[tom a]

Oh, I forgot to add, how much of the product is emodin, which can act as a laxative?

[xanadu]

Is there any proof that maxhealth is lying? Boasting is not good but isn't the same as lying, eg "we are the best" because many do that. I know nothing about their bonafides so forgive my ignorance but many others reading this may be likewise ignorant. I'd rather see a discussion of the issues than see a trade of insults. Show us exactly what they lied about and how it's significant.

[FunkOdyssey]

Show us exactly what they lied about and how it's significant.

The evidence is already in this thread xanadu, a few pages back. Maxhealth claimed that Bioforte was used in Sinclair's mouse study. Opales answered with a quote from Sinclair, where Sinclair stated that he used resveratrol from Orchid in his study. Do you *really* need an explanation as to why that is significant to the current discussion? That would probably be communicated best in a PM so as not to bore the rest of the community to whom it was overwhelmingly obvious.

[maxwatt]

I am obtaining samples of Bioforte, which a friend ordered from the website, and another that Mr. Betz said he would send me to test. I will report as to whether the emodin content is objectionable from either samples. He did state when he posted as Maxhealth, that an initial effect he noted was a mild laxative effect, though he later grew used to it. (Unclear if this means used to having diarhea, or no longer affected with this symptom.)

If the product is what he says it is, a 50% trans-resveratrol extract from Polygonum cuspidatum, with less than 5% emodin, and the capsules are filled with slightly more than 500 mg of the extract, then it is a good value at $99 for 180 caps; 2 caps a day, 500 mg a day of trans-resveratrol, 90 days for $99, about $1.10 a day.

I was extremely put off by his inital post (which seemed to claim he supplied the material for the Sinclair study), and this has made all his other claims seem tendentious at best. I invite Mr. Betz explain what he meant by this initial remark, and apologize if necessary. Then he could make a fresh start.

Another 50% resveratrol is the BAC product, which is an unencapsulated powder. BAC gives no information about the emodin content. Judging by the price they are charging, it is likely 10% or more emodin, but I cannot say for sure. A disadvantage is that powdered 50% extract tastes something like used, unwashed, dried-out gym socks. I suppose you could cap it yourself.

[xanadu]

The evidence is already in this thread xanadu, a few pages back.  Maxhealth claimed that Bioforte was used in Sinclair's mouse study.  Opales answered with a quote from Sinclair, where Sinclair stated that he used resveratrol from Orchid in his study.

OK, now I get it. However, there could be an explanation for that. Sinclair may have ordered RSV from several sources and later decided on Orchid. maxhealth may have seen that Sinclair bought a small amount from him and used that in his advertising. I don't know, I don't want to be seen as an apollogist for them or allied with them but there are usually 2 sides to every story. If he said that he was the only source or continued with his claims after evidence came out, that would be worse. I don't see that as proving maxhealth's company is nothing but a bunch of crooks, which seems to be the implication. Maybe that's the case but I don't see it yet.

[FunkOdyssey]

I don't see that as proving maxhealth's company is nothing but a bunch of crooks, which seems to be the implication.

Its the assumption I'm going with until he answers the repeated calls for an explanation. Thus far, he has dodged them every time.

[tintinet]

Maxwatt, regarding the BAC powder, are you referring to the powder that, of 200 mg portion, consists of 20 mg 50% RSV and mostly citrus bioflavinoids, or other preparation?

[drewm1000]

Mr. Betz,
Thank you for clarifying some of my questions. I didn't mean my post as slander. I was simply raising doubts that I had about the product and invoice, doubts that were compounded after reading your and others' posts on this forum. The fact is that the product did not come with an accurate invoice stating the actual cost to me. Despite my ignorance about such matters as international affiliates and sub-contractors, I at least expect an invoice stating a the actual purchase price, not a reduced "Customs" price! I look forward to reading the product assay of Bioforte. Please alert readers when you have it posted to your site. In regard to your request for disclosure: I am a consumer trying to perform due diligence on a possibly questionable product. Given a lack of information or contradictory information, what do you expect besides a degree of speculation? I have no financial interest in any company selling resveratrol or any other health product. I have no intent of maligning your company or product. I do join others in requesting independently verified assay results. The rest of my post simply repeated information I found on the invoice and how I reconciled this information with claims made by you and/or Biotivia.
Andrew

[tom a]

tintinet,

I think I can answer your question about the BAC powder -- I have ordered and received some myself.

There are actually two kinds of resveratrol sold on BAC -- the thing I ordered, and which maxwatt must have had in mind was the type intended for those seeking a more potent version.

I've only tried it once, this morning, and only 100mg worth of transresveratrol. This required only a very small amount of powder, half of the already very small spoon they sent along with the bottle. I'd describe the taste as one of a root -- which of course is whence it's derived.

It's not a pleasant taste, but it's such a small amount of material it could easily be masked in something more pleasant, I'd think.

I noticed no particular laxative effect, so far.

I'd certainly like a more comprehensive account, though, of its contents -- just as I'd like such an account of the Bioforte product.

[maxhealth]

Funk...
In your post you have chosen to ignore every single substantive issue addressed by me in my most recent post. Instead you have made an ad hominem attack against me personally. I will not be drawn into a pi**ing contest with snipers who deal in implication, speculation and smears. I will reply to your accusations one final time. In regard to sales to Dr. Sinclair you are completely off base. We have sold 98%-99% resveratrol to the institution which is associated with Dr. Sinclair around the time of his trials. I can not absolutely guarantee that our product was used in his studies nor can you guarantee that it was not. We also sell highly-refined products to companies such as Orchard. If I overstated the case in my initial post I apologise for that. It was not intentional nor was it meant to be, in any way, deceptive. I would not even address this issue except that you have chosen to base your entire criticism on it rather than engage in an honest dialectic focused on the salient issues.

Re. emodin levels, we have not received a single complaint from any user of the laxative effect. I experienced it in a mild manner but this was at a dosage of 1.5 gm., three times the recommended dosage. Emodin runs around 3% on average, far below the usual level for raw polygonum cuspidatum. The other compounds that are in Bioforte are polydatin (Piceid Resveratrol-3β-mono-D-glucoside 3-Hydroxy-5-(2-(4-hydroxyphenyl)ethenyl)phenyl-β-D-glucoside), a glucoside of resverarol that has shown important benefits and sells for several times the cost of resveratrol, and a small amount of vegetable matter. I asked you in my post to identify yourself and your affiliations. You chose to ignore that request as you did virtually every other rebuttal statement I made to your post. What are your credentials?

[tom a]

maxhealth,

Thanks for your account of Bioforte. It sounds like if it meets the specifications you described, it would be a pretty good product (though I'll have to find out what the effect of polydatin might be).

Of course, I hope you'll understand that we'd all like independent verification that Bioforte meets those specs reliably.

That's the job for Consumer Labs, I'd expect; I'm not sure what else I might trust. (Though perhaps results from an independent lab would help).

[drewm1000]

Mr. Betz,
Thank you for your informative response. I feel more confident taking your product than previously. If you're addressing me at the end of your post, I told you that I have no affiliations with any company selling resveratrol or any other health product or any competitor of your company. I am a consumer trying to do due diligence in a murky world! I never stated that I was a scientist. As an individual potentially risking his health by taking an unregulated supplement (yours or any other), you'll forgive me if I try to gather as much information as possible in making my own assessment and sharing what information I have with others. I'm afraid I don't need credentials to do so. Please alert me when you've obtained the aforementioned lab results and I may become a repeat costumer.
Andrew

[makoss]

[quote]We have sold 98%-99% resveratrol to the institution which is associated with Dr. Sinclair around the time of his trials. I can not absolutely guarantee that our product was used in his studies nor can you guarantee that it was not.[quote]

Maxhealth, I think if you had given this response when Funk first doubted you that very first time, most of the doubts would have quelled some.

[eternalone]

While looking through my numerous bookmarks in my web browser, I found a link about RSV I had found a few years ago. This is a strange article and it seems to tout the benefits of RSV before the discovery by Sinclair that it may be implicated in longevity. But it also shows a contact person for obtaining a "standard extract powder" with an HPLC assay of 98-99%. The article, I think comes from China.

http://www.nanotech....ssages/758.html

I don't know if this company and contact still exists. It lists a Michael Derrida from a manufacturer/supplier called MDidea. I have never heard of this. Have any of you ever heard of this?
To me this webpage is touting the benefits of RSV and then as a marketing ploy it lists where you can order it.
As an interesting side story, when I read this article I had access to ordering reagents and building blocks for the company I used to work for. I was so excited about this new thing called RSV that I found a supplier (Sigma-Aldrich) that sold it in 100mg batches that was 99% GC. So I ordered a bunch of bottles. I had been adding a few mg's of this powder to a glass of wine. The funny thing is to this day I still have quite a few bottles left over in the freezer. The Sigma-Aldrich bottle says to store it at -20 deg.C. So those of you ordering the Orchid Product...keep it very cold!

[FunkOdyssey]

Funk...
In your post you have chosen to ignore every single substantive issue addressed by me in my most recent post.

That's correct. You are debating the merits of your product with others. I am concerned with this issue alone.

I will reply to your accusations one final time.

Actually, this is the first time you are addressing this particular accusation even though it has been made many times by many people over a period of weeks.

In regard to sales to Dr. Sinclair you are completely off base. We have sold 98%-99% resveratrol to the institution which is associated with Dr. Sinclair around the time of his trials.  I can not absolutely guarantee that our product was used in his studies nor can you guarantee that it was not.

You initially stated with great certainty that "the product used in this study is called Bioforte". I see the backpedaling has begun in earnest. Its also interesting that this particular explanation should appear right after xanadu's suggestion of it:

Sinclair may have ordered RSV from several sources and later decided on Orchid. maxhealth may have seen that Sinclair bought a small amount from him and used that in his advertising.

Maybe someone that has personal contact with Dr. Sinclair could ask him if a purchase was made (or not) from Bioforte? That would clear this up nicely.

[makoss]

With all that has been said here concerning Bioforte's RESV, I personally will make my decision based upon the completion the independent assay tests which will hopefully be conducted by Maxwatt and Consumer Lab. Bioforte is fast becoming this board's Turin Shroud!

[maxhealth]

Thank you Andrew for your reply. I appreciate your concern about the product and understand how things like the paperwork and a different price on the import declaration might be reason for that concern. I apologise for being a bit harsh in my post. It was an unwarranted over reaction on my part. I promised not to continue this thread but felt that your last posting clearly deserved a reply and apology.

[maxwatt]

Maxwatt, regarding the BAC powder, are you referring to the powder that, of 200 mg portion, consists of 20 mg 50% RSV and mostly citrus bioflavinoids, or other preparation?

No, they have another product, hard to find on the site, if they are still selling it:

http://tinyurl.com/26q6rd (scroll down to the first product)
which is speced at http://www.easycart....images/8629.jpg

Resveratrol Powder, pure polygonum cuspidatum 50% extract. 25 grams. 125, 100mg servings per container. For those using higher dosages of resveratrol. $12.00 Code 862.9

They do not specify the emodin content, which should be part of the assay on this material, and should be specified on the COA. IF it is not, the emodin content will be well over 10% because low emodin product can be sold at a higher price.

This is a powder that I could have bought for $108 a kilo (50 kilo lots) in December, which would have cost $140 two weeks ago, and now would cost over $200 if you could find someone willing to sell it. That's assuming low emodin, under 5%. You can save 10 to 20% if you don't need low emodin. A little emodin is not really so bad, but 100 mg of it will be unpleasant for most people. 10 or 15 grams may be tolerable for most people.

To answer another question: A 50% trans-resveratrol extract from Polygonum cuspidatum consists of 50 to 51% trans-resveratrol, <0.5% cis-resveratrol (as long as it is kept away from ultraviolet light, such as direct sun, fluorescent lights, or unshielded halogen) and the remainder isd miscellaneous anthocyanins and other compounds normally found in polygonum cuspidatum: polydatin,(resveratrol-3-O-Beta-D-glucoside); emodin, physcion, chrysophanol, physcion-8-O-Beta-D-glucoside, emodin-8-O-Beta-D glucoside, fallacinol; citreorosein, questin, protocatechuicacid, catechin, 2,5-dimethyl-7-hydroxychromone; 7-hydroxyl-4-methoxy-5-methylcoumarin; torachrysone-8-O-D-glucoside; B-sitosterolglucoside, glucose, rhamnose, polysaccharides.

None of these are harmful, and the root itself is edible.

[maxwatt]

Maxhealth, I think if you had given this response when Funk first doubted you that very first time, most of the doubts would have quelled some.

He lied about the Sinclair studies and forum members are reporting that his company is understating its product's import value and printing fraudulent invoices to dodge international customs tax.

His company was also cashing in on the bird flu scare.

I don't think anything he can say at this point will significantly quell my doubts about his company's product.

I know import value is often not declared at retail value, but as replacement value to the shipper. This is usually done with wholesale goods. I initially thought the flu product was worthless, because of the way it was marketed, but I've heard by word of mouth that it works, and I've found some material in pub med indicating the main ingredient, Chinese star-anise, may have anti-viral and anti-fungal properties. It has been a persistent folk remedy in several cultures for colds, flu, skin infections and other ailments.

Old joke: How do you tell when a salesman is lying? Answer: His lips are moving.

Salesmen lie, and the good ones believe their lies. Sometimes it is over-enthusiasm, sometimes it is a predatory disrespect. The predators never apologize. Unlike another resveratrol promoter, Maxhealth (James Betz) has apologized, and it seems to have been difficult and humbling for him. I'd let him start over and see if he sticks to facts. Judge his product on its merits, once proven. If you still don't like the way it's marketed, or the salesman's personality, don't buy it. But if it is what it is purported to be, it could be the best way for many people to get a high enough dose of resveratrol in a capsule to meet the 5mg/kg needed to get the benefits promised in Sinclair's papers.

FWIW: I am currently taking between 400 and 500 mg a day of Orchid's synthetic 98% resveratrol, thanks to Paul Wakfer's coordinated group purchase. This is the gold standard for resveratrol. I have samples of 98% extract from P. cuspidatum, for which I am awaiting lab analysis.

[eternalone]

I've read about the Orchid synthetic that can be obtained through Paul Wakfer. Those of you who have obtained it, how do you consume it? Do you weigh it out and put in a glass of wine or some capsule?
I few years ago, I obtained RSV via Sigma-Aldrich which was 99% by GC. Just adding a few scoopfuls of this powder to a glass of red wine was cumbersome. It is very powdery and one exhale will send it throughout the kitchen. This was before I knew it had the possibility of longevity effects. I consumed it for heart health reasons, and would only add it to wine.
So how are the rest of you ingesting this Orchid RSV? Thanks in advance for your input.

[tintinet]

Re: Orchid RSV. Off-white fine powder. I've mixed it in various fluids, and usually take with meals. Dissolves in sugar free lemon-grapefruit soda quite well and even tastes decent. Could sprinkle on food or in smoothie, I suppose, but I don't know how it might affect the flavor and integrity of the RSV.

[curious_sle]

I know import value is often not declared at retail value, but as replacement value to the shipper.  This is usually done with wholesale goods.  I initially thought the flu product was worthless, because of the way it was marketed, but I've heard by word of mouth that it works, and I've found some material in pub med indicating the main ingredient, Chinese star-anise, may have anti-viral and anti-fungal properties.  It has been a persistent folk remedy in several cultures for colds, flu, skin infections and other ailments.

Tamiflu is made from star-anise. I'm not shure but it might very well be a highly specific star-anise extract ultimately.

to put things into perspective :-)

[tintinet]

(Maxwatt)...But if it [Bioforte] is what it is purported to be, it could be the best way for many people to get a high enough dose of resveratrol in a capsule to meet the 5mg/kg needed to get the benefits promised in Sinclair's papers.

FWIW:  I am currently taking between 400 and 500 mg a day of Orchid's synthetic 98% resveratrol, thanks to Paul Wakfer's coordinated group purchase.  This is the gold standard for resveratrol.  I have samples of 98% extract from P. cuspidatum, for which I am awaiting lab analysis.

Hi Maxwatt!

Couple of questions:

1. Don't you think the 5 mg/kg level for human RSV effectiveness is highly speculative and largely an educated guestimate as well as the level Sinclair claims to be supplementing himself?

2. What is your source for the 98% P. cuspidatum extract?

Thanks!

[maxwatt]

(Maxwatt)...But if it [Bioforte] is what it is purported to be, it could be the best way for many people to get a high enough dose of resveratrol in a capsule to meet the 5mg/kg needed to get the benefits promised in Sinclair's papers.

FWIW:  I am currently taking between 400 and 500 mg a day of Orchid's synthetic 98% resveratrol, thanks to Paul Wakfer's coordinated group purchase.  This is the gold standard for resveratrol.  I have samples of 98% extract from P. cuspidatum, for which I am awaiting lab analysis.

Hi Maxwatt!

Couple of questions:

1. Don't you think the 5 mg/kg level for human RSV effectiveness is highly speculative and largely an educated guestimate as well as the level Sinclair claims to be supplementing himself?

2. What is your source for the 98% P. cuspidatum extract?

Thanks!

1. I think 5mg/kg is slightly more than Sinclair's mice received, adjusted for metabolic and size differences. This scaling factor is accurate with other substances. In mice, said dose would be about 4 times that, around 20mg/kg. There appears to be a consistant dose-response relationship with resveratrol; the FDA-sponsored toxicology study found little cause for concern: Nephritic problems arose in mice on doses of 1000mg/kg/day, which would be around half a pound a day of resveratrol in humans by an approximate 4.3 scaling factor, so there is a lot of headroom at the 5mg/kg dose. It is probably not optimum, if anything it is likely low but still showing benefit. Given the toxicology studies and the yeast/worm/mouse studies, the in-vitro human cell studies, I think unpleasant surprises are vanishingly unlikely. Still possible, but even when toxic effects were produced in rats on high doses, they were reversed on cessation of administration. The herb that commercial resveratrol is mostly derived from, Hu Zhang (Polygonum cuspidatum), and the related He Shou We (polygonum multiflorum) have a very long history of use in Chinese medecine. Neuro-toxic effects have been noted with very high doses of he shou wu, over 14 gm /day of the cured root, concentration unknown, but the effects are reversed on reducing the dose. That's why I am comfortable at 5 mg/kg/day.

2. This would be premature.

[deftndumb1]

FWIW Longevinex is shipping the new 100mg capsules. It doesn't appear in the website yet, but I received notification today that they're shipping me freebies to make up for a botched order two months ago. I don't know if they're upping the price.