766 replies to this topic

[sUper GeNius]

Anthony,

The custom pricing I was referring to would be somewhat more than 188 and less than 1200. My real question is, why would you consider this to be "custom" pricing? Why not make this available to everyone?

Also, can you comment on the $15,000 pricing, and how you see that as belonging in a retail price list? I assume that list was meant to be a retail list, as you pull competitors prices from their retail websites. Your site is somewhat unusual, in that it seems directed at consumers, yet has pricing, ($15,000) which clearly seems to be a wholesale level. Very very few could/would consume $15,000 worth of the substance on their own.

Why not substitute your $188 pricing in the spreadsheet? Even $1200 pricing seems to involve to large a quantity. Many of your competitors have quantity discounts, but the quantities involved fall between your $188 and $1200 pricing.

The price breaks are calculated between the 100gram and 1kg pricing. I guess I can add them at each 100gram increment to the list? RevGenetics would be repeated alot on the list just because of a new price break shown... I don't mind adding these repeated throughout the powder section, if you don't mind.... let me know.

Regarding the $15,000 pricing for 99%, I'll take that off as most personal kilo purchases are between 1kg and 5kg anyway, no problem.

Personally, I think many would be interested in pricing at sub $1000 levels.

Did you see my very last post regarding mega-resveratrol's pricing?

[Anthony_Loera]

Anthony,

Do you have this pricing listed on your spreadsheet? I can't seem to find it:

http://www.megaresve...holesale_p.html

$1.06 a gram, 99% powder.

3 Kilos @ 1.06 gram
Nice! So we are talking about a little over $3077 for this... not quite sub $1000 levels...
Let me work on the price list tonight to add them in at 3 kilos.

And yes... we can price match that, no problem. I guess I need to add the price breaks all the way up to 5 kilos!

===============================

About Vitalprime:
Now...if Vitalprime gets a COA at 99%, we will have to pull our powder from the list, until our new micronized product is available. We won't be able to price match vitalprime. We will send a sample to AACL to verify Vitalprime's powder as well, just to verify the quality.

Now, people like Biotivia, Longivenex, and the rest may get a little nuts if it turns out that they have really great quality. I suspect they may have alot of powder capsules stocked up in warehouses. You might see more "sales" as the year progresses.

Overall, if they do have good quality at that rock bottom price, it will be a good thing. It will force companies to make a better product, develop their brand by partnering up and providing folks with more analysis data from research using their particular "brand", beef up customer service, or (as some companies do) create a campaign using misinformation.

Overall though, the consumers will definitely benefit in the end, as prices will come down.

In the long term, Pharmas like Sirtris, may not benefit at all... and may be late to enter the market with a high priced product, specially if rsv pricing is scraping the floor. It would benefit them now, to develop a licensing model using their SRT501. Heck we have emailed them this suggestion a while back a few times, but still haven't gotten a response.

What ever happens though, it is going to be really fun to watch. Of course it could all fizzle out if the company doesn't have the right resources... I guess we will just have to wait and see.

A

[Anthony_Loera]

Ok, Mega's wholesale pricing has been added.

Cheers!
A

[Hedgehog]

<Ok, Mega's wholesale pricing has been added.<br /><br />Cheers!<br />A<br />

Hi Anthony,
In all fairness to Biotiva trans-max if you keep it on the list you should at least add a column to say if it is formulated or not (like the SIRT1 activation). Or you could just start a new XLS sheet for formulated Resveratrol.<br />I have a strange feeling that his formulation has a high amount of polydatin glycoside??? Which in the body gets converted to 59% resveratrol. This would probably dramatically increase the half life of resveratrol. For example have a pill 50:50 resveratrol and polydatin glycoside. The resveratrol gets absorbed first but then gets degraded after that the polydatin glycoside gets degraded into resveratrol prolonging the half life but the Cmax would be lower..If this is the case I should see a resveratrol peak and a polydatin glycoside on the HPLC

This would also allow him not to add ANYTHING else to his label.


What distinguishes Transmax from other suppliers?<br />Biotivia has made a breakthrough in overcoming the short half life of resveratrol in blood serum and tissues. This is another example of our committment to product improvement through science. Our exclusive patented processing system results in up to a 200% increase in availability of the critical isomer compared to trans-resveratrol sold by other suppliers. This technology was developed by our scientists working in close collaboration with researchers at a major university. The significance of this development is that a higher concentration of the critical trans-resveratrol isomer is achieved in the blood stream and cells. Resveratrol has a very short half life in animal tissue therefore it is essential that the threashhold concentration necessary for its effects to be realized is reached and maintained for a sufficiently long period of time.<br />

Edited by hedgehog_info, 28 January 2008 - 06:21 PM.

[maxwatt]

If Transmax is formulated, the label (at least in Europe) lists only trans-resveratrol as an ingredient. No polydatin, which would have to be included legally. The glycone has tested as inactive in a number of tests.

I beieve what distinguishes it is that it is micronized, which could result in better absorption. SRT501 is both micronized, and coombined with a surfactant. Micronization alone probably helps.

[Hedgehog]

If Transmax is formulated, the label (at least in Europe) lists only trans-resveratrol as an ingredient. No polydatin, which would have to be included legally. The glycone has tested as inactive in a number of tests.

I beieve what distinguishes it is that it is micronized, which could result in better absorption. SRT501 is both micronized, and coombined with a surfactant. Micronization alone probably helps.

Well my bottle states:

Other Ingredients:
...Naturally occuring plant compounds from the polygonum cuspidatum...

Which means you can have this glycone in his formulation and not add anything to the label.

I believe his label is legal. Maybe misleading but legal. In anycase. I have a pill to test and see if it is formulated.

The glycone is the prodrug of resveratrol. It should be inactive until it is metablized into resveratrol.

[maxwatt]

If Transmax is formulated, the label (at least in Europe) lists only trans-resveratrol as an ingredient. No polydatin, which would have to be included legally. The glycone has tested as inactive in a number of tests.

I beieve what distinguishes it is that it is micronized, which could result in better absorption. SRT501 is both micronized, and coombined with a surfactant. Micronization alone probably helps.

Well my bottle states:

Other Ingredients:
...Naturally occuring plant compounds from the polygonum cuspidatum...

Which means you can have this glycone in his formulation and not add anything to the label.

I believe his label is legal. Maybe misleading but legal. In anycase. I have a pill to test and see if it is formulated.

The glycone is the prodrug of resveratrol. It should be inactive until it is metablized into resveratrol.

I don't think that happens. If I remember correctly, the kidneys pass it pretty quickly.

[Hedgehog]

If Transmax is formulated, the label (at least in Europe) lists only trans-resveratrol as an ingredient. No polydatin, which would have to be included legally. The glycone has tested as inactive in a number of tests.

I beieve what distinguishes it is that it is micronized, which could result in better absorption. SRT501 is both micronized, and coombined with a surfactant. Micronization alone probably helps.

Well my bottle states:

Other Ingredients:
...Naturally occuring plant compounds from the polygonum cuspidatum...

Which means you can have this glycone in his formulation and not add anything to the label.

I believe his label is legal. Maybe misleading but legal. In anycase. I have a pill to test and see if it is formulated.

The glycone is the prodrug of resveratrol. It should be inactive until it is metablized into resveratrol.

I don't think that happens. If I remember correctly, the kidneys pass it pretty quickly.

Ya your probably right...

[dachshund]

FYI - The glycon may be purchased in capsule form from Biophysica Research. Note the resveratrol-glycon is only 58 weight % t-resveratrol, the balance being the glucose molecule to which it is chemically bound. http://www.resveratrolforhealth.com/

[edward]

polydatin is one of the components of Hu Zhang, ie Polygonum cuspidatum, ie the source for 50% extracts. edit: though I don't know how much is in it

I still take 400 mg per day of my t-res doses via the 50% extract due to a number of reasons: 1. its cheaper to take some of my daily Resveratrol dose in this form (and 400mg is just below the max emodin I can handle, at 400mg I'm just very regular which suits me fine) 2. a suspicion that the t-res in this form will digest slower and thus hit the bloodstream later and thus provide for a longer higher blood level 3. suspicion that other components of this herb may help boost t-res blood levels (only from taking the same dose with or without the 50% component and noticing a subjective difference in energy level, which is my ghetto-subjective-biomarker for increased t-res blood level above and beyond my "normal levels"<- ha ha), combined with the numerous accounts of increased energy levels from people on here taking 50% extracts vs. 98% and higher extracts and some stating that the energy went away when they switch to the same dose of the "pure" form only to return once they bumped up the dose.

Edited by edward, 29 January 2008 - 03:38 AM.

[Hedgehog]

polydatin is one of the components of Hu Zhang, ie Polygonum cuspidatum, ie the source for 50% extracts. edit: though I don't know how much is in it

I still take 400 mg per day of my t-res doses via the 50% extract due to a number of reasons: 1. its cheaper to take some of my daily Resveratrol dose in this form (and 400mg is just below the max emodin I can handle, at 400mg I'm just very regular which suits me fine) 2. a suspicion that the t-res in this form will digest slower and thus hit the bloodstream later and thus provide for a longer higher blood level 3. suspicion that other components of this herb may help boost t-res blood levels (only from taking the same dose with or without the 50% component and noticing a subjective difference in energy level, which is my ghetto-subjective-biomarker for increased t-res blood level above and beyond my "normal levels"<- ha ha), combined with the numerous accounts of increased energy levels from people on here taking 50% extracts vs. 98% and higher extracts and some stating that the energy went away when they switch to the same dose of the "pure" form only to return once they bumped up the dose.

TRG IS a pro-drug of resveratrol TR. Meaning that your body will break it down into resveratrol. So you would get a very LONG exposer to resveratrol. So if you want to get a low level resveratrol in your system for a long time this is the way to go.

A sensitive and selective high-performance liquid chromatographic method was developed for simultaneous determination of trans-resveratrol-3-O-glucoside (TRG or trans-piceid,) and its metabolites, trans-resveratrol-3-O-glucuronide (TRN) and trans-resveratrol (TR) in rat plasma.

In rats, the parent drug TRG and the metabolites TR and TRN were detected for at least 8, 12 and 24 h after the oral dose, respectively. Mean plasma concentrations of TRG, TR and TRN were 1.70, 0.81and 26.2 μg/ml, respectively. The elimination of TRG, TR and TRN from plasma was mono-phasic, with mean half-lives of about 1, 2 and 4 h, respectively. In the rat plasma, TRN was the dominant substance with the highest concentration and a relatively long elimination half-life.

Edited by hedgehog_info, 29 January 2008 - 03:47 AM.

[edward]

Interesting I will continue to take some of my dose in 50%.

Ok, the real reason I logged on tonight:

I got my Vitalprime Resveratrol today. It came in a silver package and appeared to be either vacuum packed or packed very very tightly, which makes it hard once you cut the package open because there is no ziplock type resealable baggie inside like Mega so the contents will need to be transferred to another container and you might lose a few mgs. Package has Vital Prime Laboratories, LLC Resveratrol 99% and the Lot # on the label. I like the professional way the product is packed however the need to transfer to another container (an old bulk nutrition plastic canister cleaned thoroghly) was a bit of a pain but for $63 for 100g who cares!


Ok, moving right along... Powder is not quite as white as Mega 99%, tastes almost identical though, (that is to say it tastes like 99% resveratrol) (and I am very good at tasting things) I say almost because I can taste the hint of something that could be a slight hint of something from p. cuspidatum, not as noticeable as 98% resveratrol ( I can taste a difference between 98 and 99% resveratrol and I think Mega's Res is very pure probably higher than 99%), I'd say its going to test out to be 99% resveratrol, I don't know what Cis-Resveratrol tastes like, maybe the same... 99% pure t-res or cis-res, we shall see. It behaves the same way in water (doesn't dissolve), disperses with PEG just like my Mega did. I feel just like I took my full dose of T-Res, which I was off of for the weekend because I ran out (omg crisis).

So we shall see what the real lab tests say, the edward taste lab says at least 99% resveratrol of some sort either Trans or Cis as my taste buds have not been calibrated to Cis.

edit: added mini response to hedghog's post rather than posting again

Edited by edward, 29 January 2008 - 04:12 AM.

[maxwatt]

polydatin is one of the components of Hu Zhang, ie Polygonum cuspidatum, ie the source for 50% extracts. edit: though I don't know how much is in it

I still take 400 mg per day of my t-res doses via the 50% extract due to a number of reasons: 1. its cheaper to take some of my daily Resveratrol dose in this form (and 400mg is just below the max emodin I can handle, at 400mg I'm just very regular which suits me fine) 2. a suspicion that the t-res in this form will digest slower and thus hit the bloodstream later and thus provide for a longer higher blood level 3. suspicion that other components of this herb may help boost t-res blood levels (only from taking the same dose with or without the 50% component and noticing a subjective difference in energy level, which is my ghetto-subjective-biomarker for increased t-res blood level above and beyond my "normal levels"<- ha ha), combined with the numerous accounts of increased energy levels from people on here taking 50% extracts vs. 98% and higher extracts and some stating that the energy went away when they switch to the same dose of the "pure" form only to return once they bumped up the dose.

TRG IS a pro-drug of resveratrol TR. Meaning that your body will break it down into resveratrol. So you would get a very LONG exposer to resveratrol. So if you want to get a low level resveratrol in your system for a long time this is the way to go.

A sensitive and selective high-performance liquid chromatographic method was developed for simultaneous determination of trans-resveratrol-3-O-glucoside (TRG or trans-piceid,) and its metabolites, trans-resveratrol-3-O-glucuronide (TRN) and trans-resveratrol (TR) in rat plasma.

In rats, the parent drug TRG and the metabolites TR and TRN were detected for at least 8, 12 and 24 h after the oral dose, respectively. Mean plasma concentrations of TRG, TR and TRN were 1.70, 0.81and 26.2 μg/ml, respectively. The elimination of TRG, TR and TRN from plasma was mono-phasic, with mean half-lives of about 1, 2 and 4 h, respectively. In the rat plasma, TRN was the dominant substance with the highest concentration and a relatively long elimination half-life.

What study is this quote from? I can't find it in the preceeding posts. Do you have a pub med ID?

It's curious, if this is the case, that Sinclair et al have studied these compounds' and their metabolism and have chosen to go with a surfactant bound form of resveratrol for the company's clinical trials as being the most effective form for delivery on the cellular level.

[Anthony_Loera]

I have to say, it sounds promising so far.

I haven't received my package yet, so I can send it away to the lab.

Thanks for the update!
Anthony

I got my Vitalprime Resveratrol today. [...] Powder is not quite as white as Mega 99%, tastes almost identical though, [...] I'd say its going to test out [...] So we shall see what the real lab tests say

Edited by Michael, 24 July 2009 - 09:28 PM.
Trim quote

[Anthony_Loera]

Ok, Vitalprime prices update to reflect 99% trans as label verified by edward...

Yes folks, we have a new price leader!

I have to say... RevGenetics will not be price matching Vitalprime.
After tests by AACL confirm vitalprime's t-res, we will be doing some changes regarding powder.

Thanks!
A

[Hedgehog]

TRG IS a pro-drug of resveratrol TR. Meaning that your body will break it down into resveratrol. So you would get a very LONG exposer to resveratrol. So if you want to get a low level resveratrol in your system for a long time this is the way to go.

A sensitive and selective high-performance liquid chromatographic method was developed for simultaneous determination of trans-resveratrol-3-O-glucoside (TRG or trans-piceid,) and its metabolites, trans-resveratrol-3-O-glucuronide (TRN) and trans-resveratrol (TR) in rat plasma.

What study is this quote from? I can't find it in the preceeding posts. Do you have a pub med ID?

It's curious, if this is the case, that Sinclair et al have studied these compounds' and their metabolism and have chosen to go with a surfactant bound form of resveratrol for the company's clinical trials as being the most effective form for delivery on the cellular level.

A pro-drug is much harder to get through the FDA. Many more studies.... MUCH more money!

Edited by Michael, 24 July 2009 - 09:31 PM.
Trim quotes

[malbecman]

If Vitalprime does test out (and I suspect they will), then this will be a real change. I was quoted a price of $630 for a kilogram by them so no price break/bulk discount at that level
but still,
WOW!!

Ok, Vitalprime prices update to reflect 99% trans as label verified by edward...

Yes folks, we have a new price leader!

I have to say... RevGenetics will not be price matching Vitalprime.
After tests by AACL confirm vitalprime's t-res, we will be doing some changes regarding powder.

Thanks!
A

Edited by malbecman, 29 January 2008 - 07:03 PM.

[sUper GeNius]

If Vitalprime does test out (and I suspect they will), then this will be a real change. I was quoted a price of $630 for a kilogram by them so no price break/bulk discount at that level
but still,
WOW!!

Do a WHOIS search on the domain name. Then do a google on the name. Seems like someone is moonlighting from his regular accounting/staffing job.

[Anthony_Loera]

Hi guys,

Just an FYI
In the next 3-4 weeks you may notice some changes to the price watch list.

We will start adding some of the label ingredients or (formulations) to the collection of capsules. I think we will do it either on a separate worksheet on the excel workbook. I still have to tinker with the look of it some, as I want to keep it from getting completely cluttered with information.

If you have a product, and can take an image (picture) of the supplement section, we will post it as well. Just email it to me.

thanks
A

[missminni]

deleted for same reason. do not want to offend anyone.

Edited by missminni, 30 January 2008 - 12:42 AM.

[edward]

Everyone is an opportunist, thats the way capitalism works, you see an opportunity, see if you can make the most of the opportunity and then jump in and do just that. I talked to the guy and he sounded like he knew what he was doing, and of course his operation is a start-up (as I'm sure Anthony and James and Sardi and whoever else was in the beginning). In order to enter a market you need to beat your competitors in price, quality, uniqueness or marketing. Personally I don't care who I buy things from or what their situation is just so long as the product is of good quality, meets my needs and the price is right. The Vital Prime guy chose to enter the market with price as his selling point. If the quality is confirmed (fingers crossed) then there is really nothing "fishy" about it.

No market for a substance that is readily available from natural sources and just needs to be refined can continue to stay at the high level that the "Resveratrol Market" has been at. P. cuspidatum is a weed, a pest in Asia, it apparently grows everywhere, so the raw material is dirt cheap. Its just a matter of extracting out what you want, something that most well equipped labs can do. Once there is enough demand there is incentive for more people to do this in a more efficient manner and the price begins to drop. I am just overjoyed that this is finally happening.

spelling, grammer

Edited by edward, 29 January 2008 - 10:48 PM.

[missminni]

I decided to delete this post lest it offends somebody.

Edited by missminni, 30 January 2008 - 12:38 AM.

[edward]

missminni,

I could begin to pick a part your post but that wouldn't serve any purpose so I will leave it at this, if the COA turns out to be 99% Trans Resveratrol (free of heavy metals, fungus, mold etc.) then I don't care where it came from, how it got there or who its from, and at 2 grams a day, with 99% Trans Resveratrol that is 20mg per day of an unknown that if its not a heavy metal or a fungus then I don't see it having an impact on my health.

[missminni]

missminni,

I could begin to pick a part your post but that wouldn't serve any purpose so I will leave it at this, if the COA turns out to be 99% Trans Resveratrol (free of heavy metals, fungus, mold etc.) then I don't care where it came from, how it got there or who its from, and at 2 grams a day, with 99% Trans Resveratrol that is 20mg per day of an unknown that if its not a heavy metal or a fungus then I don't see it having an impact on my health.

I understand and totally agree with you. I was just explaining where I was coming from. That's all.
Sorry if it sounded like an argument.

[maxwatt]

missminni,

I could begin to pick a part your post but that wouldn't serve any purpose so I will leave it at this, if the COA turns out to be 99% Trans Resveratrol (free of heavy metals, fungus, mold etc.) then I don't care where it came from, how it got there or who its from, and at 2 grams a day, with 99% Trans Resveratrol that is 20mg per day of an unknown that if its not a heavy metal or a fungus then I don't see it having an impact on my health.

But will it keep on coming?

If I bought 99% resveratrol in 100 kilo lots at the current market price in China, I could almost break even selling it at $620/kg taking into account other necessary costs: reshipping to the customer, packaging, and testing. 98% is more cost effective, but even so the profit margin would be no more than 6 to 10%. This is not a good model for a start up. Add to the mix the uncertainty of future price; despite the rising value of the Chinese currency, resveratrol prices are dropping, new facilities have come on-line, and the new harvest in June will hugely increase supply. One could be stuck with a warehouse holding hundreds of kilos of resveratrol that cost almost $600/kilo, and the market price in China could then be half that much. Unless this stuff fell off the back of a truck, or is from some synthetic lab or bathtub using a bacterial culture somewhere, the marketing model makes little sense. I await the test results, and I expect they'll be good. If Vitalprime are not crazy like a fox, they won't last, or else they have uncovered a very inexpensive source indeed.

[missminni]

missminni,

I could begin to pick a part your post but that wouldn't serve any purpose so I will leave it at this, if the COA turns out to be 99% Trans Resveratrol (free of heavy metals, fungus, mold etc.) then I don't care where it came from, how it got there or who its from, and at 2 grams a day, with 99% Trans Resveratrol that is 20mg per day of an unknown that if its not a heavy metal or a fungus then I don't see it having an impact on my health.

But will it keep on coming?

If I bought 99% resveratrol in 100 kilo lots at the current market price in China, I could almost break even selling it at $620/kg taking into account other necessary costs: reshipping to the customer, packaging, and testing. 98% is more cost effective, but even so the profit margin would be no more than 6 to 10%. This is not a good model for a start up. Add to the mix the uncertainty of future price; despite the rising value of the Chinese currency, resveratrol prices are dropping, new facilities have come on-line, and the new harvest in June will hugely increase supply. One could be stuck with a warehouse holding hundreds of kilos of resveratrol that cost almost $600/kilo, and the market price in China could then be half that much. Unless this stuff fell off the back of a truck, or is from some synthetic lab or bathtub using a bacterial culture somewhere, the marketing model makes little sense. I await the test results, and I expect they'll be good. If Vitalprime are not crazy like a fox, they won't last, or else they have uncovered a very inexpensive source indeed.

would this show up in the test?

[Hedgehog]

missminni,

I could begin to pick a part your post but that wouldn't serve any purpose so I will leave it at this, if the COA turns out to be 99% Trans Resveratrol (free of heavy metals, fungus, mold etc.) then I don't care where it came from, how it got there or who its from, and at 2 grams a day, with 99% Trans Resveratrol that is 20mg per day of an unknown that if its not a heavy metal or a fungus then I don't see it having an impact on my health.

But will it keep on coming?

If I bought 99% resveratrol in 100 kilo lots at the current market price in China, I could almost break even selling it at $620/kg taking into account other necessary costs: reshipping to the customer, packaging, and testing. 98% is more cost effective, but even so the profit margin would be no more than 6 to 10%. This is not a good model for a start up. Add to the mix the uncertainty of future price; despite the rising value of the Chinese currency, resveratrol prices are dropping, new facilities have come on-line, and the new harvest in June will hugely increase supply. One could be stuck with a warehouse holding hundreds of kilos of resveratrol that cost almost $600/kilo, and the market price in China could then be half that much. Unless this stuff fell off the back of a truck, or is from some synthetic lab or bathtub using a bacterial culture somewhere, the marketing model makes little sense. I await the test results, and I expect they'll be good. If Vitalprime are not crazy like a fox, they won't last, or else they have uncovered a very inexpensive source indeed.

would this show up in the test?

If they did a synthetic process there would be residual solvents such as DCM and maybe a parts of left over metal catalyst such as Pd.

[maxwatt]

If they did a synthetic process there would be residual solvents such as DCM and maybe a parts of left over metal catalyst such as Pd.

Only if they used a totally synthetic route from precursor chemicals, as described n Orchid's patent, or other synthetic routes. Such synthesis would be much more expensive than extraction from a common weed such as P. cuspidatum. If it were made by a genetically modified yeast or bacterium, in which the CoA pathway had been modified by a genetic insertion via a lentivirus to produce resveratrol as described in the literature and some patents, then ethanol or methanol would be sufficient as a solvent.

[Anthony_Loera]

I am looking at the VitalPrime package right now.

I am not going to open it, I am sending it as is to AACL for testing.
Lets see what they say.

oh... and the label says 99% Resveratrol, not trans-resveratrol. So does the "Report of Analysis" that comes with it.
I will change that in the Price Watch.

Anthony Loera

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 30 January 2008 - 02:22 AM.

[sUper GeNius]

I decided to delete this post lest it offends somebody.

I find your deletion offensive.