120 replies to this topic

[8bitmore]

The only question I have that has still gone largely unanswered is why the Russian literature says that Noopept can be take for three months, and then continued again after a one month break. Does anyone know why it can't be taken long term?

I don't why but I do know that I would take the 3 month suggestion seriously; especially since it comes from people that have a monetary interest in you buying as much as possible of their material..!?

[Luca_Toni]

The only question I have that has still gone largely unanswered is why the Russian literature says that Noopept can be take for three months, and then continued again after a one month break. Does anyone know why it can't be taken long term?

Isn't it really strange suggestion to have a break? Have anybody ever seen such suggestions for other drugs? From my point of view, manufacturer are trying to imply "Yes, it's a very safe drug"(trying to maximize sales) but at the same time if somebody gets liver failure or something like that manufacturer can formally say "We've never claimed that this drug is for permanent use".

[manic_racetam]

I've decided to end the experiment. The mega-dose seems to have lost it's efficacy for me and I'm starting to worry that it was making me less intelligent. I had great effects for about a week or so and then just started feeling funny. I know funny isn't a very descriptive adjective, let me try to extrapolate. I began to feel really spaced out, like I wasn't in the present moment at all. Also I started getting really forgetful, I even locked the keys in my car while it was running! Yeah, very abnormal forgetfulness for me. Also a bit of emotional blunting occurred, similar to what I experienced on DMAE... Maybe it was disrupting the cholinerigic systems or something? All I know is that it stopped being pleasant.

I'm going to take the month break starting now and then will likely resume with more normal dosages.

On a slightly different note though, four of my friends heard me talking about it and wanted to try it themselves. One of them really really enjoyed it. He's an alcoholic and said he felt as if his "brain had woken up from a lengthy slumber". I'm going to give him the remainder of the caps I have made up for this vacation. Another friend had the same peaceful and serene effect I enjoyed and the two girls that tried it didn't notice anything.

Anyway, I like "Luca_Toni" 's theory above. It's probably a drug that hasn't been tested long term so they're being cautious for liability reasons. Regardless, I'm gonna take a break from it.

[unregistered_user]

Thanks for the update. I think this is a wise move.

[Geovicsha]

Really interesting stuff. Always enjoy your insights, manic_racetam!

Edited by Geovicsha, 21 September 2011 - 05:34 AM.

[manic_racetam]

Really interesting stuff. Always enjoy your insights, manic_racetam!

Thanks Geovicsha

[thedevinroy]

Are you taking this sublingually? It is a peptide, so bypassing the digestive system could increase its absorption by 10x or 100x.

[health_nutty]

Amazing dude! I'm going to try Noopept as well.

How would you say it compares in terms of anxiolysis? I have great confidence on PIR + FO (high dosages), but it can feel a bit TOO stimulating sometimes, which in social situations, can be rather annoying, since you'd just want to relax. Piracetam makes me wanna DO STUFF!

How much Fish Oil (as measured by omega 3's content) do you take per day?

[kassem23]

Amazing dude! I'm going to try Noopept as well.

How would you say it compares in terms of anxiolysis? I have great confidence on PIR + FO (high dosages), but it can feel a bit TOO stimulating sometimes, which in social situations, can be rather annoying, since you'd just want to relax. Piracetam makes me wanna DO STUFF!

How much Fish Oil (as measured by omega 3's content) do you take per day?

About 10 grams of EPA/DHA daily, which amounts to roughly 20 grams of FO daily.

[Thorsten3]

Try Wellbutrin instead of a SSRI, it has - if any - very minor effects on my libido (but that one has never been high since I got of Effexor, so YMMV)

That's not actually true dude. Bupripion is very pro sexual in some users and is totally the opposite in others. Unfortunately I fall into the latter category.

Edited by Thorsten2, 01 October 2011 - 06:27 PM.

[unregistered_user]

Yea, it did nothing for my sex drive either.

[Sephula]

Another possible reason for suggesting an abstinence period may be to mitigate the development of tolerance, or other cumulative effects, possibly analogous to Manic's experience. This is not necessarily cause for alarm; nor is it at all uncommon for racetams. Most folks suggest avoidance for two weeks per month, or two days per week, on average.

I find that, for me, it's most convenient to abstain from taking Aniracetam for two days per week, and occasionally longer when I experience symptoms of negative cumulative effects, such as possible tolerance onset. Otherwise, I take 1500 mg twice per day, and this seems to work pretty well, for me.

The descriptions of Noopept experiences are very encouraging, to me especially, because I suffer from mild social anxiety. The price is also better than my Aniracetam regimen, and so that's a plus. I only wish that I had read this prior to my recent Aniracetam purchase.

One thing I'm particularly interested in, is the effect (or lack of) this racetam analogue has on empathy, and interpersonal relationships. I find that the other racetams make be kinda cold, and uninterested in situations bearing emotional stress. This can be possitive for getting work done, especially logical work, but has a negative effect on relationships. I find that I'm even more quiet and have less sense of humor than normal in social situations. Therefore, any comparisons between Noopept and the other ractem analogues, in this respect, would be greatly appreciated.

Edited by Sephula, 06 October 2011 - 11:18 AM.

[thedevinroy]

You all bring up a good point. Perhaps noopept should be cycled with pi, oxi, ani, or pram racetams every other month to prevent accumulative negative effects like anxiety or brain fog.

[chrono]

Thanks for the interesting reports, manic ^^ The state you describe sounds quite wonderful, but as usual with higher doses, will probably serve better if taken only occasionally.

The suggestion for three-month cycles reminds me of cerebrolysin. Given its similar neuroprotective/neurogenetic properties, it may be for a related reason. I asked the same questions about CRB's cycle, but my best guess is that it's simply a matter of continued efficacy, or perhaps avoiding overload of certain functions from accumulation. Rather than being some kind of conspiracy to avoid blame when all our livers fail, it might instead be seen as a refreshingly honest contrast to the American prescription market fantasy that drugs work forever.

In regard to Luca_toni's comments: in addition to animal tests for toxicity, this paper mentions that noopept was already in stage 2 clinical trials in 2003. The fact that it's being sold as a pharmaceutical in 2011 suggests these were successful. I fail to see any basis for these sensationalist insinuations about its safety.

Edited by chrono, 06 October 2011 - 08:02 PM.

[Baten]

For anyone wondering: NOOPEPT IS NOT WATER SOLUBLE
and it tastes like chemical warfare.

[manic_racetam]

For anyone wondering: NOOPEPT IS NOT WATER SOLUBLE
and it tastes like chemical warfare.

It's up there on the nasty scale, but not as bad as pramiracetam or nefiracetam... maybe on par with sulbutiamine but at least the dosage is smaller

[manic_racetam]

Thanks for the interesting reports, manic ^^ The state you describe sounds quite wonderful, but as usual with higher doses, will probably serve better if taken only occasionally.

The suggestion for three-month cycles reminds me of cerebrolysin. Given its similar neuroprotective/neurogenetic properties, it may be for a related reason. I asked the same questions about CRB's cycle, but my best guess is that it's simply a matter of continued efficacy, or perhaps avoiding overload of certain functions from accumulation. Rather than being some kind of conspiracy to avoid blame when all our livers fail, it might instead be seen as a refreshingly honest contrast to the American prescription market fantasy that drugs work forever.

In regard to Luca_toni's comments: in addition to animal tests for toxicity, this paper mentions that noopept was already in stage 2 clinical trials in 2003. The fact that it's being sold as a pharmaceutical in 2011 suggests these were successful. I fail to see any basis for these sensationalist insinuations about its safety.

That makes sense and I like it more as well. Yeah, using GVS-11 instead of Noopept in the search pulls up a lot of different animal studies. Some showing correlation to noopept use and increase in NGF in the brain.

On a slightly different note, if 2011 phase II clinical trials are happening in the US does that mean there is a limited time to buy the raw powder?

Edited by manic_racetam, 07 October 2011 - 03:51 PM.

[Baten]

Holy crap, dosed my first 100mg today.. I felt like a different person. I've never been this verbally fluent, confident and socially active.
It's as if this does what aniracetam does for others (ani only gives me better attention).

Of course, this is an every now and then kind of thing, having read how OP felt after a week of usage.
Also, I'm having a headache right now. Nothing major, probably choline related.

[manic_racetam]

Holy crap, dosed my first 100mg today.. I felt like a different person. I've never been this verbally fluent, confident and socially active.
It's as if this does what aniracetam does for others (ani only gives me better attention).

Of course, this is an every now and then kind of thing, having read how OP felt after a week of usage.
Also, I'm having a headache right now. Nothing major, probably choline related.

I think one of the main things that caused the problem with this run was stopping my choline intake. Towards the bottom of this other thread we started getting a better picture of the mechanisms of Noopept and the best way to take it. It doesn't mean you should over-do the choline, but you'll likely need some extra eventually.

Looks like the strongest effect is received through sublingual administration as well. It somehow works well orally but is broken down (and in large part? destroyed) quite a bit by the GI tract as are most peptide-drugs.

[Baten]

I think one of the main things that caused the problem with this run was stopping my choline intake. Towards the bottom of this other thread we started getting a better picture of the mechanisms of Noopept and the best way to take it. It doesn't mean you should over-do the choline, but you'll likely need some extra eventually.

Looks like the strongest effect is received through sublingual administration as well. It somehow works well orally but is broken down (and in large part? destroyed) quite a bit by the GI tract as are most peptide-drugs.

I recently stopped taking choline with all of my supplements, since I don't get headaches anymore taking any racetams, while the extra choline tends to worsen my mood or even make me a bit depressed. I bet if I keep taking the noopept, headaches will be less severe / gone. Since it'll be a once-in-a-while thing, I also doubt I'll start getting the side effects you mentioned getting at the end of the week. As for doses, I took 100mg at around 2:00, could have been a bit more since my scale isn't very accurate below 300mg, and just placed it at the back of my tongue and swallowed it down. I'm thinking crystal clear still, at 0:41 at night. Might be tempted to use this one a lot. Thanks for the great idea manic_racetam .

Worth noting: I'm also taking piracetam 2400mg 2 to 3 times a day.

Edited by Baten, 07 October 2011 - 10:46 PM.

[chrono]

On a slightly different note, if 2011 phase II clinical trials are happening in the US does that mean there is a limited time to buy the raw powder?

The abstract from 2003 stating it was in phase 2 trials was a Russian paper; I believe they have a clinical testing system which uses a numbering system similar to ours (though probably set up in such a way that smaller companies have a chance to bring a drug to market).

The abstract also mentions that it's patented in both the US and Russia. Cerebral Health is fairly fastidious about making sure all their ducks are in a row, so they've probably either made arrangements, or the patent was dropped, etc.

I really doubt this will come to the US market any time soon. The process is prohibitively expensive, to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars. And with piracetam already rumored to be further along in that process, I doubt anyone would consider it viable to launch such a more obscure chemical as a competitor.


There's nothing to say that CH might not drop the product for any number of reasons. And if they're the only reliable source, it might suddenly be unavailable just because not enough people were buying it. It's tough to say.

Edited by chrono, 08 October 2011 - 04:20 PM.

[Dirk_Diggler]

Just to update everyone on pharmacy1010, I emailed them about 3 weeks ago asking if they were going to restock the Russian brand of Noopept and I finally got a response today. They told me it wasn't in stock for a long time, and probably wouldn't be restocked any time soon, if at all.

So I guess we're stuck with Cerebral Health. Talk about a monopoly...

[manic_racetam]

Just to update everyone on pharmacy1010, I emailed them about 3 weeks ago asking if they were going to restock the Russian brand of Noopept and I finally got a response today. They told me it wasn't in stock for a long time, and probably wouldn't be restocked any time soon, if at all.

So I guess we're stuck with Cerebral Health. Talk about a monopoly...

Bioscience Nutraceuticals has it for the same price per 10g's and cheaper than CH at 50gs... well, $1 cheaper...

Whoops vendor question.

Edited by chrono, 08 October 2011 - 02:29 PM.

[Dirk_Diggler]

A lot of the racetams are getting harder to find. Oxiracetam is only sold at a few places now. Used to be BulkNutrition had it, Relentless Improvement had it...

I wish I could find a supplier for the Russian brand of Noopept. It's not expensive, and it comes in premeasured doses

Semax and Cerebrolysin are a few other nootropic peptides that might be worth experimenting with. Although I kinda laughed when I read about one brand of Cerebrolysin that said it was derived from cows...lol. Cows, you know they're a smart bunch

Semax is very interesting, though. But damn is it expensive...

I guess there has to be a substantial demand for these products for retailers to sell them with any kind of regularity. I've always thought about starting my own nootropic business...but I guess I wouldn't make much money if there's no real demand for them.

Edited by chrono, 08 October 2011 - 02:31 PM.

[chrono]

Whoops vendor question.

haha, you'd be surprised how an offhand comment can bring people out of the woodwork who seem to have a bone to pick with all kinds of companies. As in, I deleted a long post about CH's organization and business practices, because it is wildly off-topic in a thread about a Russian peptide drug they happen to have in stock.

Too bad about pharmacy1010...if they didn't return their stock "we'll have it in two weeks" reply, it really is hopeless Maybe another eastern-Europe pharm will pick it up sometime.

Edited by chrono, 08 October 2011 - 02:39 PM.

[Logan]

Amazing dude! I'm going to try Noopept as well.

How would you say it compares in terms of anxiolysis? I have great confidence on PIR + FO (high dosages), but it can feel a bit TOO stimulating sometimes, which in social situations, can be rather annoying, since you'd just want to relax. Piracetam makes me wanna DO STUFF!

How much Fish Oil (as measured by omega 3's content) do you take per day?

About 10 grams of EPA/DHA daily, which amounts to roughly 20 grams of FO daily.

Wow that's a lot kassem. And I guess you tolerate this fine huh. How do you think high dose fish oil has helped you?

[Thorsten3]

Could somebidy kindly PM me the link to Pharmacy1010. They don't seem to be around anymore but I know that they are, because someone linked them in another thread which I totally can't remember. A google search comes to nothing.

[chrono]

About 10 grams of EPA/DHA daily, which amounts to roughly 20 grams of FO daily.

Not to be too off-topic, but I thought I'd mention that this could be dangerous long-term. See this post, for a starting point regarding increased risk of stroke. The FDA set a safe limit of 3g/day EPA+DHA based on data from Japanese populations; while this may be somewhat arbitrary, taking 3x this amount would make me pretty nervous. Immune suppression, bleeding, and oxidation are also concerns (I hope you're taking a good full-spectrum E vitamin with that high dose).

[manic_racetam]

Noopept Commercial:

[Dirk_Diggler]

Anyone speak Russian?

That's a nice find there, manic.