120 replies to this topic

[Baten]

Naapiept? Sounds pretty awesome in Russian.

Edited by Baten, 08 October 2011 - 06:36 PM.

[Dirk_Diggler]

http://translate.goo...ept.ru/&act=url

This link will take you to the official Noopept site, and using Google Translate, it will make it available in English. Very interesting.

[Dirk_Diggler]

BTW, it says in the literature on that site that it can be taken orally with meals. Man I wish I could find a source for the brand Noopept. Cerebral Health is OK, but it would be nice to have premeasured doses. And it's not expensive at all (as long as you don't mega dose )

EDIT:

Wow, it claims the bioavailability is 99.7%

Also claims after 14-20 days that it has a pronounced effect on cognition. And reduces headaches...

Effects are felt within 15 minutes according to the website.

"Noopepta uniqueness lies in the fact that in the body, it forms an active metabolite that is identical to the endogenous dipeptide with nootropic activity that physiologic and safe for humans...According to clinical studies , the risk of side effects when taking Noopepta almost two times lower than when piracetam, indicating that the safety of the drug."

Safer than piracetam...that's really saying a lot.

Edited by Dirk_Diggler, 09 October 2011 - 03:38 AM.

[manic_racetam]

99.7% oral bioavailability right? That's what I was going on until this thread led us to the deduction that the peptide would be broken down a lot in the stomach. So I guess my question is: Does oral bioavailability mean that the drug itself is absorbed 99.7% or can it also be claimed if the broken down parts (amino acids or whatnot) are absorbed into the body? Is that measured by checking excretion in urine?

[thedevinroy]

99.7% oral bioavailability right? That's what I was going on until this thread led us to the deduction that the peptide would be broken down a lot in the stomach. So I guess my question is: Does oral bioavailability mean that the drug itself is absorbed 99.7% or can it also be claimed if the broken down parts (amino acids or whatnot) are absorbed into the body? Is that measured by checking excretion in urine?

It also said should be taken with foods. Foods contain proteins. Proteins are broken down by the same enzymes that break down peptides like noopept. Over 99% oral bioavailability is an interesting claim... possibly the enzymes are so few that break down noopept that an ingestion of a snack could increase bioavailability significantly to the point of 99.7 percent from competitive enzyme inhibition? I still don't believe it...

Edited by devinthayer, 09 October 2011 - 03:17 PM.

[Dirk_Diggler]

I like the fact that Noopept actually reduces headaches. And I'm assuming when they say 99.7% bioavailability, they mean the Noopept chemical, not their specific brand.

I'm not sure if they meant the bioavailbility of the Noopept compound or its active metabolite. I was assuming that since the original compound would have to be absorbed first to be metabolized, that it was referring to Noopept before undergoing metabolization.

[Luca_Toni]

Anyone speak Russian?

That's a nice find there, manic.

I speak Russian. The video doesn't state anything interesting. Things like "...Unique action of this drug improves memory and brain functioning. Noopept - pill for your memory".

In regard to Luca_toni's comments: in addition to animal tests for toxicity, this paper mentions that noopept was already in stage 2 clinical trials in 2003. The fact that it's being sold as a pharmaceutical in 2011 suggests these were successful. I fail to see any basis for these sensationalist insinuations about its safety.

It seems that you assume that clinical trials system in Russia works very well. But you are wrong. It doesn't work good or bad - it just doesn't exist at all. I am aware that USA-European systems aren't without problem but in Russia situation is much worse. Links to papers from noopept official site. Lets look at number of participants of first ten studies: 60, 85, 45, 30, 60, 14, 20, 53, 33, 40. Is it possible to draw any conclusions using such small sample size? As far as I know it isn't. In Russia companies don't have to conduct large clinical trials to get permission to sell drug. I suppose that it's very profitable business to sell not studied drugs like noopept and afobazole over the counter officially.

[Ampa-omega]

Exactly!

Noopept does sound like a promising nootropic and there are lots of nootropics coming from russia that sound way too promising like cerebrolysin, dimebon. I think there is vast potential here but when you are buying from russia just be more careful there is not much saftey regulation there. it may be to good to be true, i hope not, russia seems to be developing all kinds of pharmaceutics, lets hope it's not a scam, be safe.

Edited by Ampa-omega, 09 October 2011 - 09:23 PM.

[manic_racetam]

........ Links to papers from noopept official site. Lets look at number of participants of first ten studies: 60, 85, 45, 30, 60, 14, 20, 53, 33, 40. Is it possible to draw any conclusions using such small sample size? As far as I know it isn't. In Russia companies don't have to conduct large clinical trials to get permission to sell drug. I suppose that it's very profitable business to sell not studied drugs like noopept and afobazole over the counter officially.

From the website:

Russian:

"Особые указания
При необходимости увеличения дозы препарата (до 30 мг/сутки), при длительном применении, а также при одновременном применении с другими препаратами, появлении побочных реакций или ухудшении состояния следует обратиться к врачу."

English as Translated by computer:

"Cautions
If necessary, increase the dose (30 mg / day), long-term use, as well as the simultaneous use of other drugs, the emergence of adverse reactions or deterioration should consult your doctor."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some clarification from a Russian literate person would be great. But from what I gather the company itself is stating in pretty clear terms to watch out for side effects long term... implying they didn't do long-term studies. Well, really, it's implying they didn't do any human clinical trials longer than 3-months.

[Luca_Toni]

From the website:

Russian:

"Особые указания
При необходимости увеличения дозы препарата (до 30 мг/сутки), при длительном применении, а также при одновременном применении с другими препаратами, появлении побочных реакций или ухудшении состояния следует обратиться к врачу."

English as Translated by computer:

"Cautions
If necessary, increase the dose (30 mg / day), long-term use, as well as the simultaneous use of other drugs, the emergence of adverse reactions or deterioration should consult your doctor."

It says "Consult with your doctor if you need to increase dose to 30mg\day or use it long-term or use it simultaneously with other drugs or get adverse reactions or feel sick"

[bobman]

I speak Russian. In the video the woman was listing the activities she has to complete, asking, "How am I supposed to remember all of this?" A man replies, "Noopept. A unique apparatus/mechanism of action helps to improve memory and the operation of the mind. Noopept, a pill for memory."

Edited by bobman, 29 October 2011 - 05:36 PM.

[JChief]

Well I've been taking Noopept for the last few days now. I do not have a scale so I have been eyeballing 10-20mg doses based on your handy picture. I do plan to purchase a scale very soon. The first evening I took a small tiny dose (perhaps a bit less than 10mg even; very small) and placed the powder under the tongue for about 1 minute and a half and swallowed. I did not notice anything much for the rest of the evening. The next morning I took a ~15mg (and I mean that loosely; I am eyeballing yet being very careful and probably under estimating just to be on the safe side) dose and then another 10mg dose later in the afternoon and then another 10mg in the evening. Right now it's too early to tell the effects I'm feeling. I have quit the piracetam while testing this. One thing I will mention so far is that I was at a wedding gathering yesterday evening and drank 5 glasses of wine and a vodka martini and I was not slurring my speech at all. My wife was pretty tipsy and had a bit less than I did. I don't drink regularly and usually 2 glasses of wine is enough to have me feeling a bit buzzed. But not on this stuff. Piracetam is kind of the same way but with noopept the ability to maintain coordination and focus was even more pronounced. Pretty interesting stuff. I am going to give this one a bit more time before reporting on any effects further.

Edited by JChief, 31 October 2011 - 07:58 PM.

[manic_racetam]

Well I've been taking Noopept for the last few days now. I do not have a scale so I have been eyeballing 10-20mg doses based on your handy picture. I do plan to purchase a scale very soon. The first evening I took a small tiny dose (perhaps a bit less than 10mg even; very small) and placed the powder under the tongue for about 1 minute and a half and swallowed. I did not notice anything much for the rest of the evening. The next morning I took a ~15mg (and I mean that loosely; I am eyeballing yet being very careful and probably under estimating just to be on the safe side) dose and then another 10mg dose later in the afternoon and then another 10mg in the evening. Right now it's too early to tell the effects I'm feeling. I have quit the piracetam while testing this. One thing I will mention so far is that I was at a wedding gathering yesterday evening and drank 5 glasses of wine and a vodka martini and I was not slurring my speech at all. My wife was pretty tipsy and had a bit less than I did. I don't drink regularly and usually 2 glasses of wine is enough to have me feeling a bit buzzed. But not on this stuff. Piracetam is kind of the same way but with noopept the ability to maintain coordination and focus was even more pronounced. Pretty interesting stuff. I am going to give this one a bit more time before reporting on any effects further.

Cool stuff. I forgot to report on a friend of mine that ended up really enjoying this stuff (he drinks a lot, basically a daily heavy drinker). One night after I'd given him 100mgs he had 10+ drinks. Normally he'd be very sloppy and likely blacked out after that amount of alcohol but he was quite composed. It was funny because the content of his conversation was really quite strange, but his speech wasn't slurred and he was totally coherent. I guess he was drunk but was still able to speak. Also, he had a clear recollection of what had transpired the next day.

When I was leaving from vacation I left him with about 7 100mg capsules I'd made up since I had stopped my mega-dosing. After learning more about it I informed him he could separate the pills into 5 parts and just take 20mgs at a time.

So, if you have ever wondered WTF a drunk person was trying to say, then slip them some Noopept next time.

[Mikael Llerena]

Hey Manic, I have some questions for you (that I hope you don't mind answering!): In the time that you've meditated/exercised, have you ever felt similar to the way you described in your OP and do you think noopept has simply increased the degree of this feeling or is it something entirely new to you?

I've found that the combination of just exercise and meditation can be extremely potent and I have myself felt most of the things you described in your OP after a good session of meditation/exercise -a sense of serene gratitude for life juxtaposed with an extremely sharp and direct perception of it (no added, self-induced fother).

I'm beginning to wonder (due to my own personal experiences in my little-over 2 weeks of taking piracetam) if maybe the racetams, or their derivatives (like I've heard noopept to be) are potentiators to these experiences (perhaps whatever brain chemistry occurs during meditation/exercise is amplified) which wouldn't be far-fetched as far as i've read on here...

Edited by Mikael Llerena, 01 November 2011 - 10:21 PM.

[manic_racetam]

Hey Manic, I have some questions for you (that I hope you don't mind answering!): In the time that you've meditated/exercised, have you ever felt similar to the way you described in your OP and do you think noopept has simply increased the degree of this feeling or is it something entirely new to you?

I've found that the combination of just exercise and meditation can be extremely potent and I have myself felt most of the things you described in your OP after a good session of meditation/exercise -a sense of serene gratitude for life juxtaposed with an extremely sharp and direct perception of it (no added, self-induced fother).

I'm beginning to wonder (due to my own personal experiences in my little-over 2 weeks of taking piracetam) if maybe the racetams, or their derivatives (like I've heard noopept to be) are potentiators to these experiences (perhaps whatever brain chemistry occurs during meditation/exercise is amplified) which wouldn't be far-fetched as far as i've read on here...

Hi Mikael,

I'll do my best to answer your questions. I've been meditating regularly for almost three years. I still consider myself a beginner but have experienced some great benefits from it. I've been exercising regularly for almost one year now. I do very intense upper body/back workout every three days and do some simple ab work-outs every other day.

I have experienced that feeling before. I actually used to feel like that basically everyday when I lived in China. I actually noted it several times during the experience that I remembered the sensation very well; as if an old friend I'd missed deeply without realizing it had come for an unexpected visit. I've just been depressed for so long after coming back to America (4 years to be exact) that I'd forgotten how great it feels to be my normal self, and didn't even know I was depressed.

Honestly I agree with you though, especially in regard to exercise and ADD. I've found that intermittent intense exercise is the most potent non-stimulant ADD medication. It's just harder to start taking exercise in comparison to taking a pill.

Meditation has mostly helped me with relaxation. I've been very tense my entire life and since practicing different forms of meditation I've become very aware of that tension and have gotten pretty good at relaxing on command. Great for well-being.

As far as racetam's and their derivatives doing the same thing to the brain as meditation and exercise... Sorry, no idea

[X_Danny_X]

is it been proven that absorbing Noopept in your mouth is the way to go instead of just guzzling it down with food? Trust me when I said that if you ever wanted to taste a strong chemical at its purest form then Noopept will give you that.

HOLY CRAP it is hard for me to absorb it by using my tongue where Noopept is under the tongue and it gets absorb.

[jillin]

@Danny haha if you think noopept has a strong "chemical" taste, you obviously havent tried pramiracetam. i am not joking when i say the strong bitter/chemical taste stays with you for sometimes as long as an hour, and this is via pram mixed with liquid of choice. i don't think id be conscious if i took pram sublingually.

[Introspecta]

Mikael I completely here what your saying about racetams potentiating the experiences of meditation and exercise. I noticed when i was meditating frequently and doing contemplation all throughout the day(by that I basically just mean staying in the moment and laser like focus without thought) while also taking Piracetam it enhanced my feelings of wellbeing and gave me a feeling of being in love with life and God. I know people get freaked out by the word God but by that i just mean the Spirit of the universe, Life energy, Love, etc... Not the guy in the sky.

Meditation combined with exercise and piracetam increased the feelings of wellbeing and at times felt borderline euphoric. I knew it wasn't just from the Piracetam because I've been taking it for years and it doesn't have the power to completely change my mood or my life but when i'm focused and doing the right thing in life while using piracetam it definitely seems to enhance everything in my view and in my head a substantial amount.

So if your life sucks your lazy and depressed I don't think the racetams will pull you out of it, although it may for some who are just situationally depressed. But for those who are making healthy changes in their lives with good health and meditation combined with Racetams can be a beautiful experience. For me Piracetam is the only one that gives me this focus. I am soon to try Noopept for it seems to be like piracetam only better. The orginal magic of piracetam is long gone. I still get effects they just arn't as pronounced as in the beginning. I'm sick of having to take 30 grams of the stuff to get the enhanced vision.

Does Noopept cause increased vividness of colors like piracetam and aniracetam does? Has anyone noticed a tolerance with it yet?

Sorry for the long post, I usually don't post much but figured i'd chime in.

[JChief]

No change in color perception that I noticed. That I attributed solely to piracetam and sharpness increased with sulbutiamine.

[manic_racetam]

No change in color perception that I noticed. That I attributed solely to piracetam and sharpness increased with sulbutiamine.

I'd say there is a definite change in visual perception associated with Noopept alone for me. A clarity and widening of perception. Almost as if the visual cortex is being recalibrated or something...

[seymores]

Just started my first 10mg of Noopept today. I experienced the visual enchancement as reported by others and have this unusual calm-in-center kind of feeling. I stopped other noo stack and for now and the next 10 days I am just going to continue with 10mg and see where it takes me.

Changelog
- noticed visual colors more vibrant
- unusual alertness and calm centering
- slight increase in motivation to solve problems (I'm a programmer)
- slight increase in focus
- it's like taking high dose of piracetam

[Tomas E]

Thanks for sharing mate i was reading about noopept and Will try it out myself after my piracetam tryout,keep us updated.

[NoopMed]

I've decided to end the experiment. The mega-dose seems to have lost it's efficacy for me and I'm starting to worry that it was making me less intelligent. I had great effects for about a week or so and then just started feeling funny. I know funny isn't a very descriptive adjective, let me try to extrapolate. I began to feel really spaced out, like I wasn't in the present moment at all. Also I started getting really forgetful, I even locked the keys in my car while it was running! Yeah, very abnormal forgetfulness for me. Also a bit of emotional blunting occurred, similar to what I experienced on DMAE... Maybe it was disrupting the cholinerigic systems or something? All I know is that it stopped being pleasant.

I'm going to take the month break starting now and then will likely resume with more normal dosages.

On a slightly different note though, four of my friends heard me talking about it and wanted to try it themselves. One of them really really enjoyed it. He's an alcoholic and said he felt as if his "brain had woken up from a lengthy slumber". I'm going to give him the remainder of the caps I have made up for this vacation. Another friend had the same peaceful and serene effect I enjoyed and the two girls that tried it didn't notice anything.

Anyway, I like "Luca_Toni" 's theory above. It's probably a drug that hasn't been tested long term so they're being cautious for liability reasons. Regardless, I'm gonna take a break from it.

I believe the suggested 1 month break by the manufacturer may be in regard to the gradual downregulation of post-synaptic receptors affected by Noopept. I've also seen this suggestion with Ginkgo biloba in some literature and other drugs that have MAOI effect. (Monoamine oxidase inhibitor-- the enzyme that breaks down epinephrine, norepinephrine and dopamine in the synaptic cleft). The inhibition of this enzyme is was gives Gingko, Rhodolia rosea, and potentially Bacopa their stimulant-like effects, as you have more stimulant (sympathetic nervous system) catacholamines in the synaptic cleft for longer. The consequence is a reduction in the population of receptors on the post-synaptic neurons and the buildup on tolerance. Taking a break will result in less sympathetic nervous system tone, but gradually a restoration of these receptors. The longer you go without a break, the harder the break will be and the longer it will take to return to a normal level. I've been bombarded with a lot of neurochemistry over the last year in med school, and have more coming up shortly-- so I may have more input on this soon. Regardless, it's possible there's a mechanism of downregulation caused by Noopept for for glutamatergic and cholinergic receptors as well. I'm currently using Piracetam and just started Noopept recently, but plan to cycle usage around my exams. Despite all this, a study (http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19240853) did show that, "Chronic treatment with Noopept was not followed by the development of tolerance, but even potentiated the neurotrophic effect." This was specifically looking at the expression of NGF and BDNF in rat hippocampus, which are involved in long term memory potentiation and promoting neuron survival. This seems like a great positive, and was the reason I chose to try out Noopept to begin with. Though, one risk here could also be both the inhibition of apoptosis of neurons that are signalled to self-terminate (due to being malignant/cancerous, for example). Also one could theorize amplified levels resulting in a loss of sensitivity to NGF and BDNF and decreased neuron survival upon withdrawal of Noopept -- a major bummer... but this is entirely speculation.

In response to another question about bioavailability, GI absorption, sublingual use and insufflation... I've been taking Noopept at 20mg doses orally. Also tried higher doses around 75mg with great success, which has already been defined amply in this thread. However, today I tried something new:

I tried insufflating (snorting) 85mg of Noopept. The mechanical sensation is much like cocaine, aside from the intense anesthesia. I'm experiencing very mild anesthesia and a smooth bitterness and flavor that is quite similar. Initially I was met with significant congestion, but that has resolved in a matter of minutes. The effects of the drug came on much more quickly-- 5 minutes or so. I'm noticing some acute hypertension which have not experienced with Noopept before. I'm currently 138/96. Normally I'm 118/76. My pulse is 60 bpm, which isn't abnormal. Also, I'm noticing a bit of chest tightness. I'm still not convinced that the Racetams and their derivatives like Noopept are entirely isolated in effect to the brain, because I also notice mild bronchospasm and increased GI motility with high piracetam/choline dosage... which would suggest it may be acting as some kind of muscarinic cholinergic agonist or upregulator in the periphery as well. Who knows...

[golden1]

I'm "sure" they work in many many places in the body. Especially given their wide different actions. WHat it does depends I suppose... hah

Edited by golden1, 31 August 2012 - 12:03 AM.

[manic_racetam]

In regards to the suggested month break I think Mr. Happy is on the right track and have since adopted what he said about BDNF and NGR. According to this study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/19240853/

... Noopept increases BDNF and NGF in the hippocampus. I'm guessing that the month long break is suggested because long-term up-regulating of BDNF causes TrkB (tyrosine kinase B) receptors to start down-regulating. (at least according to this study... http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8752592 ).

So I'm guessing the month long break is in an attempt to avoid down-regulation of TrkB... but that's just speculation.
Feel free to correct me if I'm off on my interpretation of any of those abstracts. And thanks again Mr. Happy for pointing out the likely correlation.

[Major Legend]

Am I the only one who thinks the most worrying side effect are these memory loss episodes?

[@now]

Am I the only one who thinks the most worrying side effect are these memory loss episodes?

I never experienced that, at 1-2 x 10mg a day. LOL - or I've forgotten :-)

At what dose did you experience this?

Edited by @now, 31 August 2012 - 08:58 PM.

[greekpsychonaut]

For anyone wondering: NOOPEPT IS NOT WATER SOLUBLE
and it tastes like chemical warfare.

For anyone wondering: NOOPEPT IS NOT WATER SOLUBLE
and it tastes like chemical warfare.

It's up there on the nasty scale, but not as bad as pramiracetam or nefiracetam... maybe on par with sulbutiamine but at least the dosage is smaller

Noted, thread bumped, and I agree.

Pramiracetam is straight dirk-nasty.

[Chris Overton]

To everyone looking for sources other than cerebral health, have any of you heard of or tried sunnootropic.com? They have bulk powder there, 50g for 72USD, 100g for 120USD, and even larger amounts.

I've used them for piracetam and aniracetam and haven't had any issues. The only problem is that they are a chinese outfit and the shipping is pretty high to the US.

[Climactic]

I've used them for piracetam and aniracetam and haven't had any issues.

Did you happen to request and receive a CoA from them at all?