2626 replies to this topic

[Reformed-Redan]

What? Photographic memory? No way, not me but I'm sure everyone is different.

For me I get a feeling of calm, clean focus. There is less noise in my thoughts... in between my thoughts I get moments of mental silence where I only hear my breath. Unlike normally where I get random thoughts, noises and distractions popping into my head. Recalling something is like slicing butter instead of peeling a potato... lol.

This feeling is most pronounced on the raw fermented Kanna but it happens with Zembrin too.

I got that feeling too from normal Forshkolii and Artichoke. However, it lasted only 2 hours, then there was a slow comedown and a crash where I couldn't focus at all. The 2 hour focus it gives me is really great when sitting through a class. If I make a concentrated effort and just don;t count on some supplement to do the work for me I can recall the lecture pretty well after a while. But, no photographic memory or anything that profound.

[abelard lindsay]

I got that feeling too from normal Forshkolii and Artichoke. However, it lasted only 2 hours, then there was a slow comedown and a crash where I couldn't focus at all. The 2 hour focus it gives me is really great when sitting through a class. If I make a concentrated effort and just don;t count on some supplement to do the work for me I can recall the lecture pretty well after a while. But, no photographic memory or anything that profound.

I don't get the photographic memory all the time. It was pretty much that one day and that was with Sunifram the night before and Zembrin/Ciltep + 700mg NALT the next day. It was beautiful though. Memory effects are pretty good though on regular Zembrin/Ciltep days.

[Judd Crane]

Seems this stack gives me more energy and determination (executive function?). Using without a stimulant and experience no crash. Seems like it needs choline though.

EDIT: Does the zembrin motivate it's price vs Artichoke?

Edited by Jontelito, 24 April 2013 - 01:48 PM.

[middpanther88]

Wondering if the price of zembrin is worth it too

[peakplasma]

Zembrin is just a specialized extract of Kanna. If price is a problem you should try some Kanna powder first.

Zembrin is smoother with less side effects but fermented Kanna has the same components just at different ratios.

[DamnedOwl]

What were the side-effects you experienced from the modafinil+zembrin?

I'm interested because modafinil is a particular favourite of mine, and something I had in mind to try with the zembrin.

The side effects I experience from Moda isn't affected or caused by Zembrin.
I'm referring to the headache and obvious withdrawal (constituting opposite effects of the drug) and disrupted sleep-quality I experience from it.

Okay. What kind of doses of modafinil were you taking?

[abelard lindsay]

So I've been taking 25mg Zembrin + 5 mg Forskolin + 1500mg Phenylalanine with 5-10mg Suni for the last fwo days. I find the CILTEP and Suni combine quite well. It really make the studying interesting. Suni helps with getting the programming "flow" going. It also helps to counteract the mild working memory issues that Zembrin causes. I can quantify this pretty well on CambridgeBrainSciences as my "paired associates" scores go down when taking it even as my "odd one out" and "grammatical reasoning" scores go up. I always carry NALT around with me and take it when I start falling asleep at my desk. I got this really nice photographic memory episode last weekend that I am still trying to replicate.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 27 April 2013 - 03:56 PM.

[middpanther88]

When does the drop happen after first taking the supplements?

[abelard lindsay]

The afternoon crashes are fairly predictable and happen about 4 to 5 hours after I take my morning dose. Taking 350mg NALT and 200mg caffeine usually counteracts them. The working memory issues with Zembrin are annoying when not taking a 'racetam to counteract them. With Zembrin alone, I find myself thinking that I just want to go home and watch lectures instead of trying to work. The LTP activated part of my brain just wants to absorb new information, not process it. When I switch from lectures to programming projects the Sunifram lets me make a lot more progress than I otherwise would. IMHO, both together are optimal.

The dichotomy between LTP and working memory is odd. I think the Zembrin/CILTEP/Sunifram combo is the best way I know of to resolve it currently. Phenylpiracetam also works well. Other 'racetams might work in place of Sunifram. I've been taking 1/2 teaspoon of Piracetam (about 1500mg) in the morning throughout all this.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 27 April 2013 - 03:54 PM.

[middpanther88]

How do you space out your noops? Basically, at what doses and when do you take the various noops?

[BioFreak]

Ever tried to combine it with noopept? Does it also improve the "processing" part?

[abelard lindsay]

I'm giving up on Sunifram for now. I can deal with the CILTEP crash and mitigating it with NALT as it mostly consists of pleasant tiredness. The Sunifram crash, on the other hand, leaves me fairly depressed and IMHO is not something I want to mess around with, even with all the short term Suni benefits.

Anyway. The current stack is:

8:30am
25mg Zembrin
1500 mg L-Phenylalanine
5mg Forskolin
200mg caffeine

Also:
50mg p5p
1/2 tsp Piracetam (~ 1500mg)
1000mg glycine

1:00pm
350mg NALT
200mg Caffeine

If I don't take the 1pm NALT the crash usually is in full force by about 2pm and I'll start to fall pleasantly asleep.

[Q did it!]

I'm giving up on Sunifram for now. I can deal with the CILTEP crash and mitigating it with NALT as it mostly consists of pleasant tiredness. The Sunifram crash, on the other hand, leaves me fairly depressed and IMHO is not something I want to mess around with, even with all the short term Suni benefits.

Anyway. The current stack is:

8:30am
25mg Zembrin
1500 mg L-Phenylalanine
5mg Forskolin
200mg caffeine

Also:
50mg p5p
1/2 tsp Piracetam (~ 1500mg)
1000mg glycine

1:00pm
350mg NALT
200mg Caffeine

If I don't take the 1pm NALT the crash usually is in full force by about 2pm and I'll start to fall pleasantly asleep.

If you are also crashing on the CILTEP stack alone you may consider dropping caffeine as a stimulant. It may be the cause for a lot of the ill affects. Caffeine can be quite depletive/staining on the body and mind, especially with chronic use. You may want try a much lower dose say less than 50mg a day. Maybe using a different stimulant alone or in combination with. Gotu Kola is not really a stimulant but it seems to relive some of the tiredness/depression that the standard CILTEP stack induces.

Below is my stack, it is still a work in progress. With the stack I make overall health the main priority. If you are in poor health nootropics could very easily cause you more harm than good. In the stack I focus on free-radical elimination and brain/body health first and foremost.

Note: Big black "X" explanation;
Obviously I have not added PRL yet but already put it on the list. PS (just ran out but will be stocking up again soon) and Zimbrin has yet to be delivered. Right now I am taking 500mg of Artichoke twice a day. One is a place holder tell the Zimbrin arrives. The (P#) are mean that these chems are all put into a single "000" capsule. I buy in bulk powders, mostly from eBay and cap them my self to save money and to take fewer pills. Based on the size of the stack you can see why I combine a few of them into one cap. Its like 20 pills other wise

So far this is the best stack I have devised no crashes and it seems to keep me clear headed and motivated throughout the day.

Attached Files

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Edited by Q did it!, 29 April 2013 - 02:15 AM.

[fenra]

Does anyone take garlic extract with this? It should have some hydrogen sulfide in it I think

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/14734631

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12392053

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10623586

sorry if old

Edited by fenra, 29 April 2013 - 04:24 AM.

[Ehvam]

First post

So I've decided to try this stack.. a bit of history.. I am 43, in good shape, starting school again, not new to supps but very new to noots. I tried vinpo, bacopa and didn't notice much from either. I have tried ALCAR and continue to use it, I find it very beneficial. For the start of this CILTP I've decided to cut off all supps and slowly add them back on as I go.
So this morning I bought the forsk and the artichoke and mixed them up with vit c and mg oxide as filler. Basically each pill has 1.4mg of forsk, 300mg of artichoke and the filler vit c and mg. I took one dose this morning at about 10 am.

Haven't noticed much at all so far, but maybe the dosage is yet too low, but what I did notice was a bit of a swimming feeling for a short while, a bit of anxiety- but that happens whenever I start a new supp, so it may be nothing, and ow, at 2pm, I feel like I want to lie down. is this the crash thats spoken of ? I didn't get much rest last night, so maybe thats it. Not sure.

So my goal is to take two pills in the morning, meaning 2.8mg of forsk and 600mg of artichoke extract and one pill in the afternoons?

Any advise or opinions as to my plan? btw, I would love to know how this may pair up with other pde5 inhibitors, like horny goat weed. I love that stuff. Increases my drive but also puts me in a really good mood with lots of motivation. Also interactions with theanine, and dmae. If no-one has an idea,I'll be reporting as I add them back to my stack

[xsiv1]

I hazard to say it was the poor rest your received last night that's contributing to your afternoon slump. It's in higher or extended dosing of Coleus where the fatigue becomes more present. As for L-Theanine, it's not normally contraindicated with anything but since the stack also works better for me with caffeine, we know that L-Theanine does as well..perhaps you can combine the two. My concern is that L-Theanine which produces more alpha-waves, may not contribute to the stack's effects per se without something to give it a spark figuratively speaking.

[peakplasma]

Are you all really content with Zembrin just once a day? It seems to work only like 4 hours.. which is better than Kanna which only lasts 2-3.

I've started adding back Artichoke (which can last a good 7 hours) in the mornings because 70% of the Zembrin wears off by lunch.

[Ehvam]

I hazard to say it was the poor rest your received last night that's contributing to your afternoon slump. It's in higher or extended dosing of Coleus where the fatigue becomes more present. As for L-Theanine, it's not normally contraindicated with anything but since the stack also works better for me with caffeine, we know that L-Theanine does as well..perhaps you can combine the two. My concern is that L-Theanine which produces more alpha-waves, may not contribute to the stack's effects per se without something to give it a spark figuratively speaking.

Thanks for the reply. I believe you are right. I lied down and took a half hour nap and now I'm good as new. rarely happens to me, but I guess I have been working like an animal these past few weeks with little sleep.
I do think that I have a background "buzz" from this. After I woke up from the nap I was much more open and feeling better than a simple nap could rationally account for. But its hard to tell since it was a very natural good feeling.
I am going to add in my usual supps one at a time once I dial in the CILTP stack. I want to find the lowest dose I can get away with first.

[aarfai]

Would it be recommended to take 25 mg of Zembrin plus 10 mg of Forskolin upon waking and in the afternoon with 1 capsule of now artichoke extract with NALT and caffeine?

[xsiv1]

Would it be recommended to take 25 mg of Zembrin plus 10 mg of Forskolin upon waking and in the afternoon with 1 capsule of now artichoke extract with NALT and caffeine?

Have you tried and been using the original stack? If not and you're committed to try Zembrin..I'd take it with the Coleus (5-10mgs) with the NALT and caffeine all in the morning. NALT can be substituted with any dopamine precursor really. I've tried it with L-PA, DLPA and NALT and they all work significantly well. I'm still using the original Artichoke Extract, 10mgs Coleus and NALT at 350mgs along with my morning coffee. Around 2pm I begin to phase down so have been switching things up for a pick me up.

[thebauce]

Does anybody know if there is a synergistic reaction between modafinil and the CILTEP stack? Haven't really seen any reports on trying these two together, maybe I missed something earlier? If not, I'm willing to try it out and report back with results.

[xsiv1]

Does anybody know if there is a synergistic reaction between modafinil and the CILTEP stack? Haven't really seen any reports on trying these two together, maybe I missed something earlier? If not, I'm willing to try it out and report back with results.

I'd be curious as well. I'm new to Moda but am too concerned about trying both together. It might be, in may case, a recipe for anxiety..as in, too stimulated using 50-100mgs with my regular 'original' CILTEP stack. Anyone try both at the same time?

[Judd Crane]

http://www.longecity...dent-mechanism/

[peakplasma]

Does anybody know if there is a synergistic reaction between modafinil and the CILTEP stack?

Anyone try both at the same time?

Yes, I have tried them many times; unfortunately, Forskolin + Modafinil causes some unpleasant side effects.

I use CILTEP and Modafinil rarely at the same time. I suggest saving the Modafinil for the evening.

Check out the thread below for more discussion.

http://www.longecity...dent-mechanism/

Well, yeah... that's my old thread trying to figure out how Modafinil and Forskolin overlap in facilitating LTP.. although, Modafinil is great it is certainly no replacement.

The ModLTeP stack (Modafinil + Artichoke/Kanna) is decent if you want to try it; however, as mentioned, adding Forskolin causes problems.

Edited by peakplasma, 02 May 2013 - 03:58 PM.

[Amorphous]

I am new to CILTeP and trying to understand how to use this stack to suit my needs. I need to work 5 days a weeks with an 8 and 1/2 hours shift. Most of the time, I need to wake up at 6 am in order to get to my work place at 8 am. My jobs is a performance type -- to make sure the product is correctly labeled and everything runs smoothly with some customer-service in between. What I am trying to say is that I don't have much readings and learning to do while in my jobs. Would that be better for me to take the ciltep stack after work (while I need to learn staffs in the evening/night time)? It seems to me ciltep is great for learning re-enforcement since it is for LTP to strengthen connections between synapses.
The stacks I am going to try will be

Forskolin 12.5 mg --- 1/2 cap of 20% 125mg forskohlii root extract
Kanna 20:1 extract 25-50mg
L-phenylalanine 500mg cap
Vit. B complex
Sunifiram 5-10 mg and/or noopept 10-15mg
Coffee (caffiene) ??

The problem I am facing is the coffee in the evening may ruin my sleep and affect my day-time job. Also, I am not sure if kanna extract can be taken at evening/night without affecting sleep (?) or if L-phenylalanine is okay to be taken in the evening/night.
I know sunifiram should not be taken evening/night since it definitely affects sleep (I've been taking it for about 2-3 weeks already) and noopept is actually okay for me to take in the evening/night time. Any good advice?

[Ehvam]

I've tried this stack for about three days now and not sure if I feel anything at all from it. I do notice some abdominal discomfort, but admittedly very little. Other than that, not much so far. I rechecked my dosages and they seem in line with recommendations, so not sure what to make of it.
Can anyone tell me if the effects of this are just subtle? Is there a noticeable effect I should be feeling? and if I don't, does continuing to use this stack still work in the long term for better memory and learning?
I admittedly have not sat down to study something so maybe that is why I do not see the effects, but I am always a voracious reader and haven't necessarily noticed better recall from things I read yet. I did feel a bit better mood wise these last few days but not very much so.
Maybe I've just been too tired lately to really get a good effect. Taking today off and will start again tomorrow.

[Amorphous]

Okay, just did some more research. It seems like everything is okay to take in the afternoon/evening, except for caffeine and sunifiram.
I am going to take my first ciltep stack tomorrow and will consider to use artichoke extract instead of kanna extract (zembrin).
Artichoke extract and froskolin actually have other health beneficial effects than just cognition.

[Amorphous]

Abelard or any current user of CILTeP,
I am curious of the once daily daily of Froskolin and Zembrin. I've read that some people are doing twice daily.
Is there any reason of only once daily and not twice daily, and vice versa? Is it more effective of using it once daily as compared to twice daily? or is it only your personal preference or need?
Also, what is the reason of using low dose (5-20mg) of Froskolin instead of 25 mg? Most supplement come with 25 mg (20% of 125mg). Sorry for posting so many questions - I am new to this and try to understand more about this stack. Thanks

[xsiv1]

Abelard or any current user of CILTeP,
I am curious of the once daily daily of Froskolin and Zembrin. I've read that some people are doing twice daily.
Is there any reason of only once daily and not twice daily, and vice versa? Is it more effective of using it once daily as compared to twice daily? or is it only your personal preference or need?
Also, what is the reason of using low dose (5-20mg) of Froskolin instead of 25 mg? Most supplement come with 25 mg (20% of 125mg). Sorry for posting so many questions - I am new to this and try to understand more about this stack. Thanks

From how I understood it, taking higher doses of Forskolin inevitably end up in fatigue. I'm not sure why others have chosen to swap out Artichoke Extract for Kanna/Zembrin, but it seems that they're getting a better effect from it. Because Zembrin acts similarly to an SSRI, I personally can't take it since i"m already on a nightly dose albeit small...I don't want to risk playing around with too much serotonin. I've been there and done that..once. Prescribed by a doctor and came close if not just inside serotonin syndrome. For those on any serotonin-enhancing compounds already, I personally would be careful with Zembrin. For me, it was the addition of L-tryptophan a long time ago to assist in inducing sleep with the AD I was taking. I'm not sure if you're considered a dopamine pre-cursor with the stack, but for me..it was a necessary and well liked addition because it woke me right up in the morning and lasted a could 4-5 hrs in combination with the AE and the CF. I did find afternoon fatigue setting in around 2 pm so I've just keep swapping out different energy enhancing supplements, from 350mgs NALT, to caffeine or sulbutiamine. I like the stack and have surpassed 60 days on it now. I've decided to use the original formulation along with L-PA or DLPA or NALT in the mornings depending on how I'm feeling for 90 days total and then swap into a different nootropic stack. I purchased the 25mg Forkolin the 2nd time as well without paying much attention and only take about a third of the capsule or less with the stack.

[norepinephrine]

I've tried this stack for about three days now and not sure if I feel anything at all from it. I do notice some abdominal discomfort, but admittedly very little. Other than that, not much so far. I rechecked my dosages and they seem in line with recommendations, so not sure what to make of it.
Can anyone tell me if the effects of this are just subtle? Is there a noticeable effect I should be feeling? and if I don't, does continuing to use this stack still work in the long term for better memory and learning?
I admittedly have not sat down to study something so maybe that is why I do not see the effects, but I am always a voracious reader and haven't necessarily noticed better recall from things I read yet. I did feel a bit better mood wise these last few days but not very much so.
Maybe I've just been too tired lately to really get a good effect. Taking today off and will start again tomorrow.

I generally find that days I don't get the expected effect are generally also ones where I'm hungry upon waking and don't wait long enough after dosing CILTEP to eat.

With that said, I don't find CILTEP to have quite the repeated consistency in effect as more traditional stimulants.