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xEva's fasting log - 8 days - repair and renew.

fast fasting log water-only fast

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#61 Chupo

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 07:34 AM

Day 3:

Ketone test strips were in the mailbox so I took a morning reading.

A.M.
Ketones 3.1 mmol
Glucose 70 mg/dl 3.89 mmol/l

P.M.
Ketones 5.4 mmol
Glucose 62 mg/dl 3.44 mmol/l

Drat! I didn't think to weigh myself. I usually am about 180 lbs. I just weighed in at 177.3. That doesn't look like much. I'm probably off. The 180 usually includes food in my digestive tract too. I doubt I've only lost a couple of pounds on a three day fast.

I have felt pretty good. I do feel lighter but I wouldn't say I've had "boundless" energy. I did have some trouble sleeping last night. I usually play white noise to help me fall asleep. I have the volume set on 30% and it's usually perfect. I had to turn it down to twenty because I found myself concentrating on every little piece of sound. I don't know if it's related to the fast because I've had to do that before.

I've felt mild hunger about the time I usually eat. Then it goes away. I've had thoughts about food but in an anticipatory way if you know what I mean.
I had a watery bowel movement today but that may have been from the salt I drank in my water. It wasn't a lot of salt though (about two teaspoons), which I've been having so I don't know.

I have some gelatin I made with chicken broth in the fridge. I'm going to break my fast with that tonight. I wish I could have done this longer though.
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#62 xEva

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 04:27 AM

That was fun, wasn't it? How many hours you did altogether? Did you exercise? And starting from a ketogenic diet you lost only ~3 lbs? Coming from a glucose-based diet, people initially loose lotsa water. Did you get high on'em ketones? :)

2 teaspoons is a lot of salt. Why did you take it?

Edited by xEva, 24 March 2013 - 04:30 AM.

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#63 Chupo

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 07:06 AM

It was fun and interesting, xEva!'m not sure about the weightloss as I didn't weigh myself in the beginning. I didn't exercise. I soaked up some sun, listened to music, read, and I actually watched TV, which is something I usually don't do much of any more.

I didn't get high on the ketones. I did when I first went on a ketogenic diet even though they were most likely at lower levels. It must be like having your first beer and getting drunk from it. After having a few beers for so long, more of it doesn't have the same effect as having many beers after a prolonged period of abstinence. I didn't go that long though so maybe I'd have gotten the high if I'd kept it up longer.

I take sodium in order to prevent potassium loss, which supposedly happens on a ketogenic diet without enough salt,

#64 xEva

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 09:46 PM

I am doing it again. Today is DAY 2 ..and I am already in ketosis! Last time, a week ago, I got there on the morning of the 4th day (and during the logged 8-day fast above it came in the evening of the 3rd day). What's different this time? lol it's cipro. So, here I found a way to expedite the transition to ketosis. Just a bit of a right poison can do it apparently :)

This is my 'last call' fast. I want to do 3 weeks and there is still time, while it is still cool, or I'll have to wait until fall. This is because cold air is an absolute requirement for me when fasting. I think it has to do with mitochondrial upregulation via SIRT3, which is activated by starvation, cold and exercise. If it is not cold, I feel physically weak and mentally dull on a fast. But as long as it's cold I'm bursting with energy (it's not that I don't have energy in a fed state, but I tend to be lazy and don't feel like moving much).

So, I'm gonna log this 3-week fast for discipline.


Chupo, meant to ask your impressions about your fast now that the whole months went by. I go first, here is my overview:

I learned a few things on that fast (+several 2-4 days that I did since). First, after the fast, my fasting blood glucose went down by ~10 mg/dL, which I'm glad, 'cause I was already considering metformin. I think I understand now --finally!-- how to lower it after ketosis and not get stuck in a doorway of a metabolic syndrome (but the proof will come only when I do it again after this fast). Second, I learned how to workout hard and have no postworkout pain and grow muscles like a BB on steroids (not that I want to but it's nice to know in case I'll need it). These two were unexpected, serendipitous bonuses, but I was really disappointed that I lasted only 8 days and so there was not too many 'repairs'. Even though a friend, who has not seen me since that fast until a week ago, marveled at my subtle change and said that I looked 'prettier' (I think she meant younger). I wanna blow her away by mid June, when the results should be in from this fast.

#65 xEva

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 02:42 PM

New fast, new thread: xEva's fasting log - 3 weeks in spring
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#66 xEva

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 11:05 AM

I found that woman on youtube who did 3 40-day fasts. She did them consecutively, with just a week of eating in between and she did it all for g-d lol and not in order to conceive as I got the impression years ago after taking a few quick peeks. It turned out she already had 7 children and she conceived her 8th several months after the fasts. Here is the link http://www.youtube.c...2CFD735D7B5734E A quick scan down the lists shows how she grows younger as the time passes and if you sample some of the videos her voice becomes younger too. True, she looks frightful by the end of her 3rd 40-day fast, but then there is one month of refeeding video, followed by 7 months update. If you compare the first video and the last, it's very impressive. And she did it all for g-d!!! ..I feel so shallow and egoistic..

#67 Chupo

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 01:09 PM

Chupo, meant to ask your impressions about your fast now that the whole months went by. I go first, here is my overview:



I really wish I could have done it longer. One thing that stands out is how nice it was not to have to worry about preparing food. It doesn't seem like a stressor when you're doing it every day but when you don't have to, it's rather liberating.

One thing I've noticed with my fasting BG is that it's about 10 points lower after a few days of including carbs in the ratios recommended by the Perfect Health diet, which is still low carb but not ketogenic. My BG was in the 70s and 80's rather than the 80's and 90's I see while ketogenic. The problem with that is that I don't have the ketones, even after a high-fat meal. What I have to think about is, do I want the lower glucose or do I want ketones?

My BG was also low on extremely low fat. I was doing a McDougallish/Paleo type diet of mainly sweet potatoes, potatoes, carrots, beets, various other veggies, and some legumes but no grains. I saw some fasting readings in the 60's! The problem with that was even after two months, my postprandial BG would spike to 200+ sometimes and the diet made me hungry. I'm wondering now if this has anything to do with my ApoE2 gene. It could be the higher TG on low fat that we tend to get may interfere with insulin sensitivity.

Good luck on your new fast!
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#68 shp5

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 11:53 AM

Day 3 update: I transitioned to ketosis about 8 PM last night. Usually I sleep through it, so this was the first time in a while that I had a chance to observe it. My heart rate went up and a strong pulse ensued in the abdomen. Then my breathing changed to deep and thorough exhales. I caught the fruity smell of acetone in my breath and felt the familiar sour taste in the mouth. Then there was hot flash and I felt nauseous. At this point some people throw up, which is a common side effect to glucagon. I opened the windows, but it was not enough and I went out on the balcony to cool off. Soon the nausea subsided and I felt very restless. Since we live in the woods with nowhere to go after dark, I washed the floors.

 

 

Ah, that is what it was. I did a 48h hour fast this weekend with lots of moderate-intensity activity. After 46h I had dizzyness, nausea and was seriously considering throwing up. Shortly beforehand, in my chest, I felt my heart thumping unusually strong. Tried acupressure on pericardium 6, at least it gives you something to do until the nausea subsides. Next time stomach 40.


Edited by shp5, 07 July 2015 - 12:21 PM.


#69 Kalliste

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 10:42 AM

Tried another faste this week partly inspired by this thread. Ate my last meal on sunday around lunch time.

 

The first 50 hours gave me some hunger pangs.

 

But on the third day I felt very calm. I continued until thusday, by that time I could have gone on with ease but I had made plans that forced me back to eating.

In retrospect I regret that, in another two weeks I'll do it again, probably 7 days.

 

Things that changed a lot: Dreams and sleep are profoundly different. Not very thirsty at all..

 

What I drank: Some mineral water, some herbal salt.

 

The weight loss from just monday-thursday is insane. I can see why people go anorectic.



#70 shp5

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 06:19 PM

Did a 3 Day fast in December. Nausea at 48h was less pronounced this time, and a bit later. Guess the body stores more reserves. I got a very heightened sense of smell on day 3, everything smelled strong, and delicious, walking by a kebap stand was a treat from heaven. I remember reading an interview with a guy who crashed his plane in the wilderness. He reported an extremely heightened sense of smell that helped him foraging, and that vanished when he returned to civilization. Makes lots of sense.

 

Since I started fasting, I lost around 5 Kilos landing at 76 Kg (at 190cm, thin but my frame is like that) and I maintain this weight through weekly 24-36h fasts. Feels good. I did however develop difficulties not pigging out after a fast. Also, extending fasts to more than 3 days is getting difficult for social reasons. But I still want to do a 8 day round someday.

 

Something that might interest xEva, from a course I attended in visceral osteopathy/manual therapy. No other sources on this one, sorry. The spleen seems to have some contractile tissue. Since it stores a significant blood reserve, in some animals, it can contract and put that blood at the bodies disposal. In humans, it is not unusual to get one of these contractions during manual therapy on the spleen. It empties into the hepatic portal vein, ie. into the liver. It has no parasympathetic innervation, only sympathetic.


Edited by shp5, 01 February 2016 - 06:36 PM.


#71 pone11

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 10:11 PM

Refeeding DAY 1

...

 

There are many methods of breaking a fast. My favorite is fresh, home-made whey (the liquid left after making yogurt). It is wise to pasteurize it for the first refeeding day, so that only bacterial metabolites, without actual bacteria, are introduced and gently stimulate a right immune response.

Many Russian fasters break the fast with greatly diluted citrus juices, starting with 1:3 or even 1:4 juice to water proportions and increasing the juice portion slowly, day by day. They usually continue to loose weight on this,and usually at a quicker rate than in the last days of their fasts.

The traditional Russian method of breaking a fast, which, however, evolved during scarce Soviet times and may simply reflect their austerity, is very thin, actually liquid, oatmeal and the water left after boiling dried fruit. But! modern fasters who tried it and compared with other methods, all recommended it.

Whatever you do, do not allow yourself to binge after a fast, which is easier said than done. Avoiding high glycemic index foods, and sticking to the lowest of the low, is reported to help very much this regard.

There is much more to say about the reffeeding phase of the fast, but have to run now :)

 

What do you think of refeeding by simply eating a ketogenic diet:  protein, fats, and non-starchy vegetables?   Just avoid carbs the first day.

 

How many days after starting to refeed can we re-introduce carbs?

 



#72 pone11

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 10:14 PM

Yeah, 48 hour fasting causes an initial blunting of autophagy upon refeeding relative to the fed state. In mouse hepatocytes, anyway.

 

I haven't read the studies, but I believe this is true only when you start the refeeding with heavy carbohydrate.   There are many stories of prisoners or war - or people in general suffering from starvation - who get very sick from bacterial disease shortly after they start refeeding, which may reflect this blunting of autophagy effect.



#73 pone11

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 11:23 PM

 

Yeah, 48 hour fasting causes an initial blunting of autophagy upon refeeding relative to the fed state. In mouse hepatocytes, anyway.

 

I haven't read the studies, but I believe this is true only when you start the refeeding with heavy carbohydrate.   There are many stories of prisoners or war - or people in general suffering from starvation - who get very sick from bacterial disease shortly after they start refeeding, which may reflect this blunting of autophagy effect.

 

 

I tried to edit this, and the silly LongeCity system timed out my editing privileges and then threw away all my edits.  So incredibly frustrating how Longecity does this....

 

I want to enhance this reply.   Paul Jaminet has a great discussion of this issue in Chapter 40 of "Perfect Health Diet".   He notes that in long fasts autophagy stops completely on refeeding, making the body susceptible to bacterial intracellular pathogens.  He cites statistics that famine victims go into the refeeding period with 4.9% bacterial infection rates, and then soon after refeeding they are at 29% infection rates.   That's significant.

 

Jaminet's solution to this is to keep fasts short, which doesn't promote as much autophagy, but it avoids the refeeding problem.   The problem with that solution is the science doesn't really prove that short fasts promote effective enough levels of autophagy in humans.

 

I wonder if a solution to this problem would be to eat ketogenic during refeeding, but also introduce a caloric deficit for a few days.   Then also use intermittent fasting during the refeeding to keep autophagy promoted during the refeeding.

 

You have hit on a very important issue, and I would love to see some studies!!


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#74 Kalliste

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 06:12 PM

In nature mode you probably did not go from "winter starvation" to "feast" in one single day. It must have been a prolonged period before summer truly arrived where food gradually became more and more available.

 

Most fasting protocols put heavy emphasis on slow refeeding, the body usually works this way too. Things happens in phases, you wake up and fall asleep like that. You become more muscled and capable after a long period of exercise. 







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