• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
- - - - -

Can someone with an average IQ become a genius? How or why not?

genius

  • Please log in to reply
137 replies to this topic

#121 gamesguru

  • Guest
  • 3,273 posts
  • 395
  • Location:coffeelake.intel.int

Posted 08 January 2017 - 12:15 AM

genius does not equal savant.  That guy doing arithmetic in his head on david letterman is not the same as terence tao solving unsolved math problems in his sleep.

 

some quotes, for a laugh

genius is a promulgation onto the unknown

a fish will never be a genius if you judge it by its ability to climb trees

talent hits a mark no one can hit, genius hits one no one can see

genius without ambition is like a bird without wings

 

 

all of these tests are fairly reliable

PsychTests.com
 
 
 

Edited by gamesguru, 08 January 2017 - 12:16 AM.

  • Good Point x 1
  • Disagree x 1

#122 N.T.M.

  • Guest
  • 640 posts
  • 120
  • Location:Reno, NV

Posted 09 January 2017 - 06:02 PM

Maybe somebody already posted this (and if that's the case, I apologize; I haven't read all the posts). Anyway, you can become smarter by stimulating your mind (this has been shown), but this isn't possible to the extent of gaining 40 IQ points, which is the difference between an average score and a genius score. Sorry.


  • Disagree x 1
  • Agree x 1

sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for BRAIN HEALTH to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#123 PeaceAndProsperity

  • Guest
  • 1,194 posts
  • -195
  • Location:Heaven

Posted 09 January 2017 - 07:48 PM

Yes only thru brain damage..., if you have a major head injury that doesn't disable or kill you, it can turn you into a genius or savant... 

http://www.livescien...ath-genius.html

Ah! So that's how one out of a billion cannabis users experience an increase in iq as opposed to the commonly seen decrease.


  • Unfriendly x 1
  • Disagree x 1

#124 Meggo

  • Guest
  • 72 posts
  • 6
  • Location:Vienna

Posted 10 January 2017 - 06:22 AM

genius = creativity


  • like x 1

#125 jack black

  • Guest
  • 1,294 posts
  • 27
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 16 January 2017 - 05:06 PM

Genius is as genius does. Genius according to who, and for what? Arts, sciences, leadership, politics, military conflicts - all have geniuses of different kinds. Genius comes from protracted periods of work in a given field. Horsepower is highly overrated. A highly intelligent person with no work ethic is just going to be someone who finds a resting point a bit higher than the average person, but who won't produce anything remarkable. An average person with work ethic will surpass a highly intelligent person with low work ethic in almost every case, and I have seen this first hand when I have tutored students in mathematics. If you are lucky enough to have high intelligence and high work ethic, then that is a recipe for genius perhaps. But many who are considered genius simply used their time more wisely than those forgotten by history, or thought the things they did when the time was right to be thinking them....there is plenty of luck involved in addition to high intelligence and hard work.

 

As far a raising IQ, mine has jumped 20 points in 14 years, from 125 on the WAIS-R to 145 on the WAIS IV. This is not supposed to happen, but, it happens more frequently than you might think. Larger gains are certainly possible. Mine came through a combination of nootropics, academic work, and general improvement of my living situation. I don't think IQ is very important for achievement. People who do poorly in subjects usually just don't try long enough. They fail once and it makes them feel stupid, so they stop. People who believe they are intelligent (perhaps from IQ scores) often see temporary failure to grasp something as a challenge, and will simply try again until they get it. When they do, they are seen as more intelligent. I've seen plenty of people, once they learn the trick of simply "Trying long enough", learn things they didn't think were possible.

 

Don't let IQ be your metric of genius. Genius comes from lots of determination and work, and probably a large dose of luck to. Without the luck, you will certainly master a topic anyway, which is reward enough.
 

 

well said. i noticed the same in my family. we have some persons who are incredibly bright, but struggle to function due to low motivation and at the same time the less gifted ones are very successful through drive and work ethics.

 

i can also believe in increasing IQ by training. It can be done: https://blogs.scient...tive-potential/

 



#126 Major Legend

  • Guest
  • 741 posts
  • 79
  • Location:London

Posted 17 January 2017 - 06:36 PM

I think IQ isn't really the best indicator of how smart someone is, there are many types of intelligence. Social intelligence for example is lacking in many people who are highly

intelligent STEM subjects. The brain is large, but it only has so much energy to expend at any given time, so there are actually physical limits to the idea of a genius, because

when we say genius we tend to think someone who is SUPER at alot of things, when in fact people tend to sacrifice other abilities if they are overly good in one thing.

 

Of course that's not like I deny the existence of genetics dictating base intelligence. 

 

And I would argue its possible to some extent.

 

Very importantly the methodology of education one adopts, if they adopt the right one and continue learning new things and keep curious about other subjects

and also have a good methodology of how to put what is learned into practice. I think over time one can actually become smarter for sure.

 

Education alone changes how the brain approaches problems, therefore affecting intelligence.

 

On the other hand, to reach genius level. I really believe people need to do drugs like LSD, Ketamine and so on, these open their minds to see and perceiving things

they never could have without the drugs, just knowing how malleable our own perceptions are alone, can greatly contribute to the ability to flexibly problem solve, or look

at things in a different context, or spot patterns.

 

When people say genius they usually mean people that can "jump" several steps ahead, or connect two seemingly unrelatable ideas, and I think nootropics, drugs

actually facilitate this kind of thinking.

 

The truth is a lot of people considered geniuses have experienced a wide range of completely different things, and they are simply able to cross-pollinate ideas.

 

This "experience" driven way to improve intelligence, is actually the opposite of what academia actually is (which is to just focus on one subject only), as a result a lot

of these people end up being unable to make huge "breakthroughs"

 

And finally where do you learn how to think like that? - Art School...There is a pretty good reason why so many things come from places like California where they are encouraged

to think like an artist and try crazy shit.


  • Needs references x 1
  • Disagree x 1

#127 kurdishfella

  • Guest
  • 1,734 posts
  • -52
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 14 January 2020 - 09:29 AM

It's remarkably easy to go the other way, though!

 

I had an IQ of 178 as a teenager, had a long rough battle with EBV in college and it knocked down to 150, started having "ADD" and "depression" after that, go figure, stupid f*cking psychologists and their 19th century views of the workings of the brain (adderall made me hyperfocus for days and SSRIs only worked one time for me when I was super bummed about a breakup), then years of binge drinking, untreated sleep apnea took it down a bit more to 138, and in the past year I've had mild cases of both hepatic and viral encephalopathy, and God knows what it is now.

 

At least I have my physical health -- oh wait, no, that's all f%cked up too. Well, I can curl up underneath my physics PhD to keep warm.

what do you get out of lying about your iq online? nobody believes you. I doubt you are over 120.


Edited by farshad, 14 January 2020 - 09:30 AM.

  • Pointless, Timewasting x 1
  • WellResearched x 1
  • dislike x 1
  • Agree x 1

#128 Jesus is King

  • Guest
  • 867 posts
  • -6
  • Location:UK

Posted 25 January 2020 - 02:33 AM

There's something comforting to being a dumbass just like me (and being aware of it). You can live life knowing you're never going to be a target of a drone attack because you're a nobody living in a world of 7 billion people.


  • Well Written x 1
  • unsure x 1

#129 kurdishfella

  • Guest
  • 1,734 posts
  • -52
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 15 March 2021 - 02:02 PM

Yes I give an example of kids.when your young now compare it to now being an adult. Your smarter in every way and whos to say it stops? it doesnt. You keep improving even if its small and u dont notice. best way is to compare when u were a kid to an adult and see how much of a different person u are. Also i hate when people say kids are stupid.certain colours good for detecting stuff thats y bright colours appeal to kids.

can you have disease and still be feel healthy and go unnoticed by doctors? think about it if a person has good genetics they will less lilely get the same disease symtomps or the more severe ones that usually indicate a disease but could still have it. or never get them at all. being prone to cancer doesnt mean u have bad genetics but genetics superority is determined by your dna and immune system metabolism how strong their made. in fact if you have cancer or celiac or other disease its more likely ur genetics are good becauce u survived them and the bad genes that had them died out. How a dna dies out is if it you dont reproduce but your brother does who have sliglhy different dna. but your dna code is still in him so its passee on even if u dont breed. then when ur dna code is born again and still doesnt breed but the other dnaa like ur similar to ur brother does and for 7 or somth genwrations then ur specific dna code is gonw lost. so thats why people with diseases etc more likely to have and get high iq in pain from this and other

Edited by kurdishfella, 15 March 2021 - 02:14 PM.


#130 kurdishfella

  • Guest
  • 1,734 posts
  • -52
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 12 May 2021 - 02:04 PM

People with high IQ seem to like every music no matter how bad it is, or how bad the taste is, or how ''ugly'' a person is on the outside will be beautiful to him or her. etc their expectations are non existent or very low for everything like movies / entertainment they can get a lot of enjoyment out of very little stimulus from outside or none at all . 



#131 William Sterog

  • Guest
  • 500 posts
  • 119
  • Location:Dos Hermanas
  • NO

Posted 15 May 2021 - 08:53 AM

People with high IQ seem to like every music no matter how bad it is, or how bad the taste is, or how ''ugly'' a person is on the outside will be beautiful to him or her. etc their expectations are non existent or very low for everything like movies / entertainment they can get a lot of enjoyment out of very little stimulus from outside or none at all .


If you consider high IQ a 140 in WAIS, I can assure you that someone with that score can absolutely despise most music, almost every movie, and only find somewhat fascinating really beautiful and young women.

I can answer any question if anyone is interested in this matter, because I see a lot of what I understand as misconceptions.

#132 kurdishfella

  • Guest
  • 1,734 posts
  • -52
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 15 May 2021 - 02:39 PM

If you consider high IQ a 140 in WAIS, I can assure you that someone with that score can absolutely despise most music, almost every movie, and only find somewhat fascinating really beautiful and young women.

I can answer any question if anyone is interested in this matter, because I see a lot of what I understand as misconceptions.

You wouldn't know because IQ tests are inaccurate. 


Edited by kurdishfella, 15 May 2021 - 02:43 PM.

  • Disagree x 2
  • Needs references x 1

#133 William Sterog

  • Guest
  • 500 posts
  • 119
  • Location:Dos Hermanas
  • NO

Posted 16 May 2021 - 01:00 PM

You wouldn't know because IQ tests are inaccurate.

 
Then, why use the construct IQ to speak about intelligence? If the results of my tests, which were as official as they get, and I skipped a year of school because of them, are not to be believed, why not better talk about intelligence in general as opposed to high IQ, as you did here?
 

People with high IQ...


Or is that you found an alternative, more accurate, way to measure IQ which doesn't rely in any kind of testing? Revealed knowledge, maybe?

 

You can say that you have observed that the individuals which, according to your own criteria, were intelligent, displayed a sum of characteristics. But, how are you sure that it is not the case that those characteristics were the basis of your own criteria instead of them being accessory and only realized by association after careful comprobation through the meticulous application of other means? 

 

If you want to talk about IQ, you need to talk about tests, since the construct IQ emerges as the result of testing certain capabilities across populations. Id est, IQ is how do you fare in psychometric testing compared to the rest of individuals. IQ is, or at least that is what I believe, not a concept as diffuse and prone to interpretation as intelligence is. 

 

You may say that the testing of intelligence is somehow unreliable or imprecise, if you are alluding to the limitations of IQ scores at describing the mental patterns and applicabilities of the intellectual tools of an individual, and that may be improved with the addition of an assessment of the big five personality traits, for example. But you cannot say that tests designed to measure IQ are unreliable, beyond their own margin of error, at measuring what they create when executing their essential function of measuring, as IQ is not something that can exist outside of the scope of testing. 

 

The merits of the idea of IQ are partially, but not exclusively, the merits of any well-defined concept as well-defined concept in itself. A loosely defined concept like intelligence is so open to interpretation that you are going to find people attributing it to atoms, due to their capacity to "selectively" bond, arguing with others which are defending that it is something exclusive to humans, or even to some populations of the different hybrids of hominids that we commonly define as humans. Those are extreme, although not extremely infrequent, points of view, for sure; but the margin to interpretation is still very wide even when leaving out extreme positions. 

 

So, as stated before, if you, or anyone else, are interested in knowing what the experience of having a somewhat elevated IQ is, I can try to answer any question that you formulate, to the best of my ability, as I am only mildly fluent in this language. If anyone want to talk to an intelligent person, I am afraid that I may not qualify as such according to their criteria. 


  • Agree x 2
  • Well Written x 1

#134 kurdishfella

  • Guest
  • 1,734 posts
  • -52
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 16 May 2021 - 05:14 PM

IQ is not just for tests but it's an overall measuring of all intelligences that are incorrectly given because of the deficiency with tests. Would you have me rather say high intelligence? such an odd specific thing to pinpoint on, sign of low intelligence. Just because I talk about IQ does not mean I have to mention tests. 

 

 

why not better talk about intelligence in general as opposed to high IQ, as you did here?

Because I wanna talk about high intelligence and not average? thats what this thread is about.

 

 

You can say that you have observed that the individuals which, according to your own criteria, were intelligent, displayed a sum of characteristics. But, how are you sure that it is not the case that those characteristics were the basis of your own criteria instead of them being accessory and only realized by association after careful comprobation through the meticulous application of other means? 

Does this look like ncbi.nlm.nih.gov to you? I'm not a scientist here to give out peer reviewed studies. Your wording is very weird. You are trying too hard to come off as smart and you certainly are not. This is not an attack but just the truth.

 

 

 

 IQ is, or at least that is what I believe, not a concept as diffuse and prone to interpretation as intelligence is. 

What are you even saying?  IQ basically means your overall intelligence and is used to evaluate all the types of intelligences there is into a total, I.E musical intelligence, emotional intelligence and so on. 

I used it correctly but you rather me used and say intelligence in my previous post because you think IQ is exclusive to paper tests? 

 

I got a headache trying to figure you what you are trying to say, please speak like a real human and not so artificial or I won't respond again. Because this is Cleary not you and come off as very awkward and cringe. I rather not talk to you again though Ive meet plenty of wanna-be smart like you in my time and I see right trough you. You can make a point without making your sentences so hard to read.


Edited by kurdishfella, 16 May 2021 - 05:32 PM.

  • Cheerful x 1

#135 William Sterog

  • Guest
  • 500 posts
  • 119
  • Location:Dos Hermanas
  • NO

Posted 16 May 2021 - 07:04 PM

You surely have not reached the ending part of my message, where I admit that English is not my first language, and that I am not particularly fluent in it. If some ad hominems are what I am going to get as a response, it is certainly a waste of time to keep trying to communicate with you. Have a good day. 


  • Well Written x 1

#136 Castiel

  • Guest
  • 352 posts
  • 74
  • Location:USA

Posted 17 May 2021 - 10:10 PM

genius = creativity

 

yes creativity helps a lot, and high creativity can increase odds of being called a genius and that is a very fine line, as high creativity has been linked with potential for mental disorders, iirc.

 

As for IQ it is strong predictor of economic achievement especially when combined with trait of conscientiousness.  IQ is strong correlate of g, a measure of what some would call general intelligence.  Without sufficient IQ you will have trouble even operating the simplest of machines, low enough IQ and you might have trouble even understanding normal conversations.    There is a minimum IQ needed to do well in advanced physics, math, engineering, etc.

 

Tons of measures have been undertaken, tons of programs and interventions, and they have all failed to raise IQ.   Could some nootropic combo raise IQ that is not outside the realm of possibility, as differences in gene expression and metabolic processes in the brain can be elicited to significant degree with chemical interventions, mimicking the effect of having different more beneficial gene alleles(as seen in lifespan extension studies where even single substances can have massive effects on the lifespan of some organisms.).

 

As for those who say they've raised it, one possibility is distraction, sickness, etc affecting one of the tests.   Alternatively if they've trained on similar problems to those used in IQ tests, their score will artificially improve and mislead as their general intelligence will not increase, that is IQ will decorrelate from g general intelligence.

 

That said while you cannot increase your general intelligence, you can increase your crystal intelligence. Also known as book smarts.  That is your intelligence based on knowledge and learned skills.      A high IQ person who doesn't know calculus and facing a difficult math problem requiring calculus, will most likely be unable to invent calculus to solve this problem on the fly, and will fare worse than someone that knows calculus well.     Similar domain specialization and mastery through tons of time spent devoted to a subject can make someone a genius, if they have the minimum IQ needed to be able to understand the material, see the patterns and connect the dots.    There have been some moderate IQ people of high renown who've been considered geniuses from what I recall.   So the minimum IQ for reaching genius with time and effort is probably not that high, that said high creativity might be able to lower the required IQ necessary to reach the label of genius.


Edited by Castiel, 17 May 2021 - 10:20 PM.

  • Needs references x 1
  • Well Written x 1

#137 Castiel

  • Guest
  • 352 posts
  • 74
  • Location:USA

Posted 17 May 2021 - 10:26 PM

You wouldn't know because IQ tests are inaccurate. 

There are two conditions in which IQ scores are inaccurate, at the extreme high ends, it is said to be inaccurate.    Alternatively if a person is practicing IQ tests or problems, they will ace the test through learned skills, but IQ will no longer be an accurate measure of their general intelligence.    Otherwise IQ tests tend to be pretty good, they strongly correlate with other alternate tests to measure g, unless someone trained on their problems to game them.


Edited by Castiel, 17 May 2021 - 10:30 PM.

  • Agree x 2
  • Needs references x 1

sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for BRAIN HEALTH to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#138 Castiel

  • Guest
  • 352 posts
  • 74
  • Location:USA

Posted 08 June 2021 - 06:56 PM

Reference to moderate IQ genius

 

Richard Feynman was one of the most well known physicists and widely regarded as a genius.

 

Yet

 

 

An IQ test administered in high school estimated his IQ at 125—high but "merely respectable", according to biographer James Gleick.-wikipedia

 

 

 

 Feynman was universally regarded as one of the fastest thinking and most creative theorists in his generation. 

Richard Feynman's intelligence | Discover Magazine

 

 







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: genius

2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users