24 replies to this topic

[Ch!ggy]

Currently I'm looking to maximise the health promoting effects of my diet and can't make up my mind about coffee. Daily I drink about 3 cups of decaf instant coffee but I'm not sure coffee is good enough despite the cognitive and other health benefits. The inflammation response and heart effects don't look so beneficial.

What are your thoughts ?

[theconomist]

Well I think you could post your diet first and let us judge how close you are from perfect.
I tried being as close to optimal as possible for 3 months and it's really not a way to live your life.
Depending on how young you are then I think it's best to follow the praeto principle when it comes to life extension; do the basics, avoid the things that harm you but don't try to min max everything since the life extension we're aiming for will come through medical and technological advances. Nothing we eat will ever compare in terms of benefit to say a fully functional prosthetic kidney, a cure for pancreatic cancer or a way to reverse atherosclerosis.
The short version; try to lower your coffee consumption if you feel like it but if it's something you enjoy I wouldn't worry about it (too much).

[Ch!ggy]

Thanks for replying and so quickly.

Certainly I don't think my diet is perfect and different diets work for different people depending on many factors, I'm just trying to get a general understanding on where other people who are concerned with life extension put coffee

[theconomist]

Thanks for replying and so quickly.

Certainly I don't think my diet is perfect and different diets work for different people depending on many factors, I'm just trying to get a general understanding on where other people who are concerned with life extension put coffee

I don't really think there is a consensus. Green tea may be better but it has it's issues too. Coffee is one of those substances that has a paper released about it every few years that contradicts what's been said previously. Checkout this thread. http://www.longecity...c/45138-coffee/

[Ch!ggy]

Yes, I read that thread also, there are so many conflicting reports on coffee its a difficult one to decide upton. Thanks

[niner]

I drink coffee. While I haven't done an extensive search of the literature by any stretch, my impression is that it's a net positive. If not, well, it can't be that bad, and the stress of avoiding it would probably take years off my life. I'd recommend sticking to sane amounts.

[Raptor87]

Who drinks decaf, I mean comeon!? You dont need to quit drinking coffee, you need to start drinking real coffee. Then report back to us.

[Ch!ggy]

I drink decaf for the very simple reason I can't handle caffeine, i get very nervous and irritable and do not concentrate well at all even on 1 cup of "real" coffee a day

I also drink decaf green and black teas for the same reason, there are many people who can't handle caffeine. I suggest you read up on it then report back

Edited by Ch!ggy, 11 May 2013 - 05:22 PM.

[chung_pao]

Hey

I'd definitely recommend changing to Tea.
I myself target the purpose of coffee from different directions to achieve the end result with minimal side-effects.
I.e. I use many different things to inhibit GABA and increase vigilance; dopamine, AMPA transmission and all other things.

But for someone looking for a better and simple solution, I'd say switch to tea.
It contains so many more substances which have a positive impact on mood than coffee does. (theanine, COMT and MAO inhibitors, for example)

If you're looking to increase your alertness even more, and possibly for the whole day, you could try adding some ginkgo (60-120 mg) and possibly the CILTEP-stack (discussed here on the forum).

The CILTEP stack is just 10 mg of active forskolin and 500 mg of artichoke extract. It's dirt-cheap and plant-based.
What it does is essentially potentiating that one cup of coffee or tea to feel like 3-5x as strong. (in my experience)
You can even use it without the caffeine for alertness and health benefits.

If you're just looking to maximize your health without stimulants, I'd recommend the Slow carb diet.
For me it has definitely lead to a great elevation in physical energy and health in a short time. By just following it, I can honestly say I don't need and stimulants, they just make work/studying more productive.

I hope I understood your question right, correct me otherwise.

Edited by chung_pao, 11 May 2013 - 07:15 PM.

[Ch!ggy]

Hi Chung,

I drink more tea (Black and Green) than I do coffee, I currently incorporate coffee for its different health benefits that tea does not provide and coffee is one of my favorite drinks.

I can't handle Ginkgo as it makes me nervous, Vinpocentine works ok in low doses instead, for mental focus and other health benefits I'm currently using Methylene Blue, Fish Oil, PPQ, Ubiquinol and ALCAR.

I have not tried the CILTEP stack, just ordered the components as it sounds very interesting. I've just acquired some Noopept and will be testing that soon.

I'm already following a slow carbs protocol in my diet, all of my carbs come from Buck Wheat, lentils and broccoli and I rarely eat more than 120g of carbs per day

You have provided some good advice Chung, thanks.

Edited by Ch!ggy, 11 May 2013 - 08:01 PM.

[Raptor87]

I drink decaf for the very simple reason I can't handle caffeine, i get very nervous and irritable and do not concentrate well at all even on 1 cup of "real" coffee a day

I also drink decaf green and black teas for the same reason, there are many people who can't handle caffeine. I suggest you read up on it then report back

What? Everyone get's nervous from coffee if you aren't used to it. That's why you should drink the shit out of it. I drink black coffee, green tea and black tea every day. It makes things more exciting! Especially when you are having a panic attack!

[chung_pao]

I understand you on Ginkgo and Caffeine making you nervous. It sometimes has that effect on me too.
Do you use L-tyrosine? It can contribute a lot to anxiety in social situations, for me included.

Good thing about the tea.
Maybe you know more about the coffee than me; what are the health benefits of processed (normal) coffee? It's my understanding that most of the health benefits are lost in the manufacture of it. (which is why "green coffee beans" or "Bulletproof coffee" are marketed to be so superior)

The diet sounds very good. Do you get enough choline? Deficits can contribute a lot to anxiety aswell. (too low acetylcholine)

Noopept is also very interesting. Although I only got acute effects in the beginning (kind of stimulatory), I think it contributes to nerve growth factors in the long term, among other things. Don't forget to dose it with enough choline (unless sufficient in diet), otherwise you can suffer very unpleasant "senior moments", i.e. short term deficits.
I usually take it with 350 mg CDP-choline.

[lostfalco]

I have had excellent results with Bulletproof Coffee. Most coffee is filled with toxins and causes brain fog, especially decaf.

Here's a link: http://www.bulletproofexec.com/coffee/

Disclaimer: I have zero affiliation with Dave Asprey and don't agree with everything he says...in a nice way.

[Ch!ggy]

I don't use L-Tryosine as it also makes me nervous,

I like coffee for the antioxidants not found in teas, possible liver protection, it gives me a nice focus similar to tea but different even without the caffeine and it contains other compounds that make me feel good, tea just does not have the same effect, I like tea because it relaxes me and focuses my mind at the same time (I like the effects of theanine). I would not be surprised if most of the benefits of coffee are lost due to processing.

Choline is an interesting one, I generally can't handle any choline as it makes me stressed, nervous and gives me neck cramps, but when taking racetams based nootropics I can cope with just a little now and then, I assume due to depletion of my natural levels as you mentioned. I get similar reactions from some B vitamins also.

Brainfogged, I tried to drink the shit out of coffee it worked to a point but I still react to caffeine much more than the average person, but the side effect of Insulin resistance and other caffeine related effects does not appeal so I quit that strategy

Thanks for the link lostfalco

Edited by Ch!ggy, 11 May 2013 - 08:47 PM.

[chung_pao]

I have had excellent results with Bulletproof Coffee. Most coffee is filled with toxins and causes brain fog, especially decaf.

Here's a link: http://www.bulletproofexec.com/coffee/

Disclaimer: I have zero affiliation with Dave Asprey and don't agree with everything he says...in a nice way.

Lostfalco, what would you say were the differences in the psychoactive effect of Bulletproof versus normal coffee?
Reading your theories on the forum, you seem to have credibility. The argument Asprey proposes is that the removal of toxins reduces the rebound-effect ("crash") you experience with normal coffee. After trying the product, do you agree with this?
I'm considering buying the product, so I'd really appreciate the opinion

[lostfalco]

I have had excellent results with Bulletproof Coffee. Most coffee is filled with toxins and causes brain fog, especially decaf.

Here's a link: http://www.bulletproofexec.com/coffee/

Disclaimer: I have zero affiliation with Dave Asprey and don't agree with everything he says...in a nice way.

Lostfalco, what would you say were the differences in the psychoactive effect of Bulletproof versus normal coffee?
Reading your theories on the forum, you seem to have credibility. The argument Asprey proposes is that the removal of toxins reduces the rebound-effect ("crash") you experience with normal coffee. After trying the product, do you agree with this?
I'm considering buying the product, so I'd really appreciate the opinion

Yeah, I would say the rebound effect is limited...the biggest things for me though are that I don't get brain fog and I'm not hungry for hours. I drink it at 6 and I'm not hungry till 1 or 2. Even then, my hunger pangs are very different than they used to be. They are very subdued by comparison. Dave's theory is that the psychoactive nature of mycotoxins is the primary cause of the all too common coffee fog. I'm still reading up on this controversial theory, but my subjective experience has so far been good for 6 or 7 months now.

[theconomist]

You guys should try arabic green coffee if you're really into coffee. All I've got is anecdotal evidence but it's a very ''light'' coffee mixed with cardamon and saffron and the health benefits touted are amazing. In my country people start drinking this coffee after they get married to thwart off the stresses of daily lives and it seems to work as we have very low rates of depression (and other mental illnesses). Plus it's delicious so if you can get your hands on some definitely try it. It's also low in caffeine.

[nowayout]

If I remember correctly, decaf does not have the same health benefits as caffeinated.

Coffee indeed seems to be very good at protecting you from Alzheimer's, if the studies are to be believed. But here I think you need the caffeinated version. It is also supposed to be anti-inflammatory, not pro-, and may have some cardio benefits. Again, I seem to remember the decaf actually was bad for cardio health, while the caffeinated was good or at worst neutral.

However, a lot of the studies were done on Americans for whom coffee was basically the ONLY antioxidant/vegetable in their diet that wasn't a deep fried potato. So of course coffee would help them a bit. If you have a better diet, coffee probably won't add much value to it.

So if caffeine makes you jittery, just drink something like Rooibos tea instead.

Edited by viveutvivas, 12 May 2013 - 12:03 AM.

[chung_pao]

I have had excellent results with Bulletproof Coffee. Most coffee is filled with toxins and causes brain fog, especially decaf.

Here's a link: http://www.bulletproofexec.com/coffee/

Disclaimer: I have zero affiliation with Dave Asprey and don't agree with everything he says...in a nice way.

Lostfalco, what would you say were the differences in the psychoactive effect of Bulletproof versus normal coffee?
Reading your theories on the forum, you seem to have credibility. The argument Asprey proposes is that the removal of toxins reduces the rebound-effect ("crash") you experience with normal coffee. After trying the product, do you agree with this?
I'm considering buying the product, so I'd really appreciate the opinion

Yeah, I would say the rebound effect is limited...the biggest things for me though are that I don't get brain fog and I'm not hungry for hours. I drink it at 6 and I'm not hungry till 1 or 2. Even then, my hunger pangs are very different than they used to be. They are very subdued by comparison. Dave's theory is that the psychoactive nature of mycotoxins is the primary cause of the all too common coffee fog. I'm still reading up on this controversial theory, but my subjective experience has so far been good for 6 or 7 months now.

The hunger-suppressant effects are very interesting. I experience the same with any stimulant though.
I find focusing on dopamine, or catecholamines in general, to be the optimal fat-burner/appetite-suppressant. (due to noradrenaline-induced lipolysis, among other things)
Do you follow his advice of basically adding 900 kcal of fat to your coffee?
Because that'd discount the whole theory of the coffee being an extraordinary hunger-suppressant.

I've tried arabic coffee before, but the taste didn't really agree with me. But I've gotta give it another try.
The reason it's called "green coffee" is that it's less processed, right? Like the supplemental form of "green coffee extract" which is touted as an effective weight-loss aid due to chlorogenic acids.

IMO, the stimulant effect of coffee provided by caffeine and polyphenols is what provides the Alzheimer's-protection. If it's not stimulatory or "hormetic" (stressing the body, in a similar manner as resveratrol and EGCG), there are no memory-benefits.

Edited by chung_pao, 12 May 2013 - 01:09 AM.

[lostfalco]

I have had excellent results with Bulletproof Coffee. Most coffee is filled with toxins and causes brain fog, especially decaf.

Here's a link: http://www.bulletproofexec.com/coffee/

Disclaimer: I have zero affiliation with Dave Asprey and don't agree with everything he says...in a nice way. :)

Lostfalco, what would you say were the differences in the psychoactive effect of Bulletproof versus normal coffee?
Reading your theories on the forum, you seem to have credibility. The argument Asprey proposes is that the removal of toxins reduces the rebound-effect ("crash") you experience with normal coffee. After trying the product, do you agree with this?
I'm considering buying the product, so I'd really appreciate the opinion :)

Yeah, I would say the rebound effect is limited...the biggest things for me though are that I don't get brain fog and I'm not hungry for hours. I drink it at 6 and I'm not hungry till 1 or 2. Even then, my hunger pangs are very different than they used to be. They are very subdued by comparison. Dave's theory is that the psychoactive nature of mycotoxins is the primary cause of the all too common coffee fog. I'm still reading up on this controversial theory, but my subjective experience has so far been good for 6 or 7 months now.

The hunger-suppressant effects are very interesting. I experience the same with any stimulant though.
I find focusing on dopamine, or catecholamines in general, to be the optimal fat-burner/appetite-suppressant. (due to noradrenaline-induced lipolysis, among other things)
Do you follow his advice of basically adding 900 kcal of fat to your coffee?
Because that'd discount the whole theory of the coffee being an extraordinary hunger-suppressant, lol.

I've tried arabic coffee before, but the taste didn't really agree with me. But I've gotta give it another try.
The reason it's called "green coffee" is that it's less processed, right? Like the supplemental form of "green coffee extract" which is touted as an effective weight-loss aid due to chlorogenic acids.

IMO, the stimulant effect of coffee provided by caffeine and polyphenols is what provides the Alzheimer's-protection. If it's not stimulatory or "hormetic" (stressing the body, in a similar manner as resveratrol and EGCG), there are no memory-benefits.

My comments were def in reference to coffee + grass fed butter + MCT oil. I think the butter is the primary cause of the appetite suppression. Sorry if I was unclear. =)

[niner]

the biggest things for me though are that I don't get brain fog and I'm not hungry for hours. I drink it at 6 and I'm not hungry till 1 or 2. Even then, my hunger pangs are very different than they used to be. They are very subdued by comparison. Dave's theory is that the psychoactive nature of mycotoxins is the primary cause of the all too common coffee fog.

I should probably give it a try lest I be a knee-jerk skeptic, but the psychoactive mycotoxin thing sounds pretty sketchy. I looked at Dave's site a while back, and my recollection was that the coffee was pretty expensive. Appetite suppressant, huh? I wonder what's in it besides coffee?

[Luminosity]

Some people don't do well with caffeine and that's that. It also contributes to osteoporosis and other health problems. It uses up tomorrow's energy today.

Teeccino is another possible option. It is an herbal coffee substitute made from chicory, barley and dates. The Java flavor tastes exactly like coffee. You can mail order it from Swanson's or Vitacost. You can also find it in some health food stores.

I used to drink a lot of tea, mostly decaffeinated. Over time it stained my teeth and contributed to erosion of my teeth. Black is worse than green for that purpose. In Chinese medicine, hot drinks are good for you and cold drinks are bad. Room temperature drinks are ok sometimes, but hot is best in the morning. For health, these drinks are best unsweetened, and without milk, lemon, cream, or creamer, most of the time. Watch out for tea or tea drinks that contain citric acid. It is irritating to some people and can contribute to tooth decay. For instance, Passion Tea at Starbucks contains citric acid.

Some herb teas that seem healthy are honeybush, green rooibos and regular rooibos. Numi brand is good. They are all lower in acid than Camellia sinensis, and have no caffiene.

.

Edited by Luminosity, 12 May 2013 - 05:15 AM.

[nowayout]

Appetite suppressant, huh? I wonder what's in it besides coffee?

Caffeine is a good appetite suppressant for many people, including myself. I don't know if this has been studied, but I kind of thought this was common knowledge.

[lourdaud]

the biggest things for me though are that I don't get brain fog and I'm not hungry for hours. I drink it at 6 and I'm not hungry till 1 or 2. Even then, my hunger pangs are very different than they used to be. They are very subdued by comparison. Dave's theory is that the psychoactive nature of mycotoxins is the primary cause of the all too common coffee fog.

I should probably give it a try lest I be a knee-jerk skeptic, but the psychoactive mycotoxin thing sounds pretty sketchy. I looked at Dave's site a while back, and my recollection was that the coffee was pretty expensive. Appetite suppressant, huh? I wonder what's in it besides coffee?

Yeah I agree. I think your money is better spent elsewhere, lostfalco.
And I mean come on, "Bulletproof coffee"? As if this was something he invented.. It's just coffee and butter, nothing special about it. Tastes great though!

[niner]

Appetite suppressant, huh? I wonder what's in it besides coffee?

Caffeine is a good appetite suppressant for many people, including myself. I don't know if this has been studied, but I kind of thought this was common knowledge.

Stimulants generally are, but this is being promoted as different than ordinary coffee. Placebo effect?