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Supplements to keep skin looking young


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#181 The Beauty of Peace

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 03:28 AM

There are other effective compounds too which are not drugs nor supplements, those are "research compounds", things like C60oo or MK677 to name a couple....

 

Maybe a topical liposomal ALA gel, maybe a tiny bit of copper salicylate, maybe HA too as previously explained (even if considered by someone pointless and timewasting...), maybe turmeric masks some now and then....there are quite a few things that might help, unlikely leading to dramatic results but possibly helping a bit.

 

One TCA peeling can take 10 or more years of wrinkles and a lifetime of dark spots away overnight, well one has to wait likely about a couple of weeks or slightly more to fully heal...depending from strength of peeling (depth), skin response to healing and aftercare.

 

Interesting discussion, albeit a bit off-topic! :)   I read some of your posts but not all of them, sorry:)

 

I remember you advocate DMAE and microneedling and TCA peels...

 

Can you kindly share with us your skincare protocol? And also, can you recommend specific brands/products for skincare and supplements?

 

Your input is appreciated!



#182 aconita

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 03:53 AM

Off which topic?

 

The "Supplements to keep skin looking young" topic?

 

Sorry, I am unable to to do better than that in order to keep on topic.:)

 

What works for me not necessarily works for someone else, maybe you are not getting the point: there isn't such a thing like a best protocol that works wonders for everybody, every issue has to be addressed specifically.

 

And by the way I don't advocate DMAE (or any other means, for that matter), I suggest that for some issues some people finds it works.

 

For some issues there are certain things that likely work fine for most but certainly not everybody.

 

You are looking for something that doesn't exist, that's why I am off-topic, I am off your topic.

 

At least do you know what are you looking for?

 

Ask specific questions and maybe some useful for you suggestions will make sense to be considered.

 



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#183 Keizo

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 05:33 AM

Is there a consensus on acids like AHA and BHA (glycolic and salicylic acid)? I know a lot of people recommend them, I have a bottle of glycolic acid and it says it should bring forth new skin meanwhile the BHA is more marketed as clearing up the skin and promoting an even tone. I do know they can make skin sun-sensitive, but for how long? I'm thinking of using them heavily now for a few months before the sun arrives.

 

I just want to mention regarding Taurine that I read a MD suggesting high levels of taurine is involved in psoriasis, and it so happens when I took a lot of Taurine (like 5-10grams per day) I eventually got some mild but noticeable flaking of my skin and in unusual places (not just my hands), and then it went away when I stopped and took some MSM. http://jamanetwork.c...abstract/543725 http://www.sciencedi...22202X15471040 

 

Anyone know anything about MSM (methylsulfonylmethane)  in relation to skin? why would it be good? I have a huge jar of it here so I might as well use it if it isn't harmful. 


Edited by Keizo, 10 March 2017 - 05:39 AM.


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#184 meatsauce

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 07:31 PM

astaxanthin, lycopene, lutein, pycnogenol, MSM, Benfotiamine, Carnosine, Bio sil, micro needling, chemicals peels, C60, Epitalon.


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#185 Gayle63

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 07:54 PM

astaxanthin, lycopene, lutein, pycnogenol, MSM, Benfotiamine, Carnosine, Bio sil, micro needling, chemicals peels, C60, Epitalon.

 

And, if I may add, a good diet full of fresh veg and fruits (berries especially), nuts and seeds, good fats like olive oil and coconut oil. No smoking, of course, no alcohol, no sugar if you can manage it. See how easy it is? lol!  :-D



#186 The Beauty of Peace

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 08:06 PM

astaxanthin, lycopene, lutein, pycnogenol, MSM, Benfotiamine, Carnosine, Bio sil, micro needling, chemicals peels, C60, Epitalon.

 From my experience:

 

pycnogenol, MSM - useless. I've been taking both for many years.

Carnosine, Bio Sil - I am testing both now.

Microneedling - have done it for 2-3 years. Results ZERO.

Chemical peels - YES!

C60 - I am getting it in the mail soon.

Epirtalon - have to search what that even is.

HA - YES! Especially in high doses, and as long as it is low-molecular. I buy it from Japan. Better than from the Jarrow brand, IMO.



#187 The Beauty of Peace

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 08:11 PM

At least do you know what are you looking for?

 

Ask specific questions and maybe some useful for you suggestions will make sense to be considered.

 

 

I am looking for an effective alternative to Retin A and HA capsules. I want tight, glowy, plump skin. Like the rest of us. From my experience, only Retin A and HA supplement work. If you can recommend something as good or even better, I would love to hear your specific suggestions (aka specific products that work). Especially for every day use. 



#188 aconita

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 01:19 AM

Keizo,

 

about chemical peelings books have been written, therefore we should have at least a dedicated tread just to those...

 

But to make a long story short lets say there are a few points that are worth keeping in mind:

 

- the main differences between chemicals is the dept of action, other differences like a tendency to work better in inhibiting dark spots (kojic acid) are present but relatively tiny, likely not worth too much concerns.

 

- dept of action is due by the kind of chemical, its concentration, how it is applied, combinations, layers and to some extents skin type

 

- skin type (Fitzpatrick scale) and subjective reaction is worth consideration

 

- reaction to chemical peelings needs training in order to prevent undesirable side effects

 

My suggestion for general purposes is to consider glycolic acid and TCA, as said there are a number of other kinds of chemicals but really differences are negligible and those two have been proven to be easy, cheap, effective and safe (salicylic acid tends to go systemic and prolonged use may cause some toxicity, even if probably unlikely why to risk when it doesn't provide any appreciable advantage against the safer glycolic?).

 

The darker the skin type the more concerns about chemical peelings because chances of unpleasant side effects are magnified.

 

Blacks, for example, should take great care especially with deeper peelings.

 

Glycolic acid is easy and basically there two ways of using it: everyday or once a week for a few weeks followed by a pause.

 

Everyday use should be with no more than 10% strength, needs no buffering, is generally very well tolerated with almost no irritation if any, very mild peeling might occur after few days of use but usually nothing major, can be done all year long, sun and light exposure aren't of concern, works very well for PIMPLES, BLACK HEADS and improved skin tone, improve absorption of other supplements therefore works well with HA or whatever one wishes.

 

It doesn't erase wrinkles or dark spots, maybe ameliorating some very fine and subtle ones but isn't that its intended action, it is a great way to train skin for future more aggressive peelings.

 

Once a week needs something between 20 and 35% strength (stronger is not going to be more effective, it will just lead to more irritation), it needs buffering by applying a solution of water and baking soda after 6-10 minutes in order to neutralize the acid, mild peeling may be experienced but usually nothing major, very tiny wrinkles and dark spots may be erased but nothing dramatic, sun exposure is better to be avoided during periods of treatments.

 

In my experience glycolic acid is better used everyday at low strength instead of once a week at higher strength but both ways do provide skin training for future deeper peelings.

 

Applying can be done with a brush or with a cotton pad (or gauze), brush is more gentle, cotton pad or gauze allows for rubbing which leads to deeper penetration but don't be tempted to achieve a deep peeling with glycolic acid by mean of using higher strength or heavy rubbing, it just doesn't work and great irritation is all you'll get.

 

It is smart practice to start low and slowly moving up, low on strength, low on time before buffering (when buffering is needed), low on rubbing (in my opinion the soft brush is better, rubbing is not going to turn glycolic in TCA anyway).

 

TCA needs a cautious approach, this is where serious damage can be done but it is where dramatic results can be achieved too.

 

TCA is real peeling, no room for doubts here, strength range from 25 to 50% with probably best at 35%, doesn't need buffering, not to be used more than twice a year and since sun exposure is of concern for a while after a treatment once a year in winter time is likely all you want.

 

DON'T jump on it without previously training the skin with milder peels like glycolic for at least few months!

 

Side effects on untrained skin range from discoloration (dark areas) to severe burning scars, eyelid dropping or horrible irritation.

 

TCA is not forgiving, a mistake here and you'll regret it, really.

 

More about TCA on request or, even better, in a dedicated tread.

 

Yes, taurine and psoriasis don't go well along, even at low dosage or only topical since goes systemic anyway.

 

Whom suffer psoriasis or is psoriasis prone should avoid at all costs taurine in any form, you aren't missing anything special anyway.

 

It might lead to dandruff.

 

MSM is a source of sulfur, if someone is sulfur deficient supplementing MSM might be effective, if one has a decent nutritional habit which includes eggs and cruciferous veggies, for example, sulfur deficiency is unlikely of concern and supplementing MSM unlikely to be a life changing experience.

 

MSM is cheap and in reasonable amounts likely quite safe, at worst isn't going to add much....

 

It kind of enhance absorption of other compounds taken along with it, therefore it might act as an absorption enhancer of supplements both orally and topically, adding some to gels or masks may be worth, as usual don't expect miracles from it but for about 10$/kg at least isn't likely to drive you broke.

 

astaxanthin, lycopene, lutein, pycnogenol

 

 

Antioxidants, some of them outrageously expensive,,,ALA is likely better and cheaper (topically is one of the very few things making a real difference).

 

Proper needling isn't as straightforward as one may think, not rocket science but still needs to be done properly other ways results will be unsatisfying, most people don't have a clue about how to do it...and most online videos and forums are the prove of it.

 

I want tight, glowy, plump skin

 

 

Skin texture can be improved with chemical peels, topical moisturizers like HA gels, topical antioxidants like ALA, proper needling (which provides a very close effect to that of glycolic acid at least in this regard).

 

Everyday glycolic 10% in HA gel provides better results than retin A, is much cheaper, much better tolerated and side effects free, plus it doesn't go systemic and DOESN'T LEAD TO SUBCUTANEOUS FAT LOSS.

 

Tight and plump are very related to subcutaneous fat and facial bones, not exclusively but much so.

 

And here we are again...

 

You ladies out there likely don't notice it (yet) because women carry more fat than men do (a woman 24% fat body mass equals to 15% male, talking about how "normal" it looks), distribution of fat is different too, women carry most of it on hips and boobs, of course, but on face too, while men tend to carry it mostly on the belly, since fat distribution is hormonally dictated there might be exceptions, of course, but as a rule of thumb that's how it is.

 

You ladies have fatter faces which is MORE SUBCUTANEOUS FAT than men do, therefore the retin A caused subcutaneous fat loss is much less evident for most women than it is for men, at least for a while....

 

You spread you beloved retin A on you lovely face, those first tiny wrinkles that freaks you out kind of magically disappear and you do feel as happy as first date day....well... see you when you'll be 50 or more: when subcutaneous fat starts to drop below a certain level you'll regret big time all that retin A spreading.

 

And about wrinkles....

 

Has anybody ever seen a fat person with a wrinkled face?

 

Well show me a picture than!

 

Because fat tighten and plump that skin on top of it!

 

Got wrinkles?

 

Try pulling in the right direction your skin near by...oooh, you see, gone!

 

The plastic surgeon practice of lifting tells you anything?

 

Now, a few tiny wrinkles here and there are easy fixable with some retin A, better with other means as above described but anyway...

 

...but when skin starts developing wrinkles due to sagging there is no amount of retin A, needling, peeling, HA, gels or creams that will make a dent, only crosslinked HA injections (fillers), autogenous fat transplant or other skillful plastic surgeon interventions will be able to fix it somehow.

 

Therefore take good care of you facial subcutaneous fat or you'll regret...and retin A isn't a smart choice in that regard.

 

For an overweight or fat faced person all this may be irrelevant or a face fat reduction even desirable but that is unlikely to be most people reality.


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#189 Soffia

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 04:04 PM

An update on my experiment. I plan on making a separate, more detailed thread about this, but right now I'm incredibly busy due to my car breaking down :sad: I'm in the middle of trying to fix it, so this will be a small update.

Yesterday, I took the 20 pills on an empty stomach. Didn't notice any negative side effects, my stomach was making weird noises for the first hour, but that's it. For the first couple of hours, I didn't notice anything, but after 3 or so hours, I noticed my neck and back weren't hurting.

 

This is a big deal for me, because normally how my daily routine goes is this: When I first wake up, my back and neck are a little dull and achy, but the pain is bearable. When I get to work, after 2 hours of sitting, the pain is starting to get bad. By the time I leave work and come home, my back feels awful and I need to lay down or sit down. Eventually I go to bed, and repeat the cycle the next morning.

While on HA, my back and neck felt fine all day! This is a big deal for me, I don't remember my back or neck feeling this great since I was a teenager. As for my skin, I didn't really notice any difference. My face was still dry all day. Though there may have been some affect, because my lips weren't dry and chapped like the day before. I didn't use chapstick or anything, so it is remarkable that my lips weren't chapped by the end of the day, especially considering there was a wicked cold front that came through.

This morning, I woke up and my back and neck hurt badly. I was confused because the morning time is when my back and beck hurt the least. I took 20 HA pills on an empty stomach, it went down a lot easier this time. About two hours later, my back and neck are not hurting. This is a great benefit and I hope I can find something to mimic this effect that is cheaper and easier to take. Still not noticing much (if any) skin changes.

 

I will give a more detailed update as soon as my car is fixed and I have a moment to sit down!


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#190 YOLF

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 06:43 PM

Well if we look at frambinone or raspberry ketones, we see that in doses of excess it disrupts metabolism enough to stop the production of androgens, yet ketones are generally fuel for making androgens. The reason this happens is b/c the imbalance stops a bunch of other reaction in the building process, so it could be that by taking these mega doses that you're disrupting your own ability, although temporarily, to produce your own HA. Thus your back is hurting by the time you wake up b/c the HA you took has degraded by that time.

 

I think you should stop.



#191 Soffia

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 06:58 PM

That's more or less what I was thinking, though I don't know enough about the science to explain how/why it happens. I just thought something along the lines of "Huh, maybe the HA wore off and my own body's HA is now messed up cause the huge amount of HA I'm taking?". Since science is not my specialty, most of the times I'm going to need some help understanding scientific jargon and phenomenons.

I'm still going to keep doing it, I only have 4 days left. If nothing else, I think if my back is worse after the experiment, it will serve as evidence cautioning people against taking huge doses of HA.



#192 YOLF

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 07:44 PM

Bone and joint HA is also of a different type, so it's probably not such a good thing that this stuff is causing bone pain. Think of it this way, sunlight makes D vitamins and the skin then nourishes your bones. So stopping the production of HA in skin could reduce the amount of HA or HA substrate being produced that would migrate to your bones and make things there.

 

Men everywhere, esp here appreciate you trying to look younger for us, but don't hurt yourself. We'll find a better way for you. Or perhaps just lower the dose until the symptoms go away, and then lower it a little more for added safety. 

 

FYI, I talked to someone months or years ago who tried this and swore by it, but he also had lots of bone and joint pains he didn't seem to be able to get rid of. 

 

 



#193 The Beauty of Peace

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 04:08 AM

 

ALA is likely better and cheaper (topically is one of the very few things making a real difference).

 

Everyday glycolic 10% in HA gel provides better results than retin A, is much cheaper, much better tolerated and side effects free, plus it doesn't go systemic and DOESN'T LEAD TO SUBCUTANEOUS FAT LOSS.

 

Very informative! Can you please recommend a specific brand/product with ALA or Glycolic 10% in HA gel? 

 

Also, about losing subcutaneous fat, there is a lady on youtube who is her early 60s, she has been using Retin A for 27 years, if I am not mistaken. She does not look like she does not have subcutaneous fat on her face. She also does not look like she had any fillers done. So I am not sure if this theory is true, do you have any references?

 

Thank you!


Edited by The Beauty of Peace, 12 March 2017 - 04:09 AM.


#194 The Beauty of Peace

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 04:12 AM

More about TCA on request or, even better, in a dedicated tread.

 

I agree! We seriously need a new thread about TCA peels... can you start it? You seem to know a lot about them.


Edited by The Beauty of Peace, 12 March 2017 - 04:12 AM.


#195 aconita

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 10:36 AM

Can you please recommend a specific brand/product with ALA or Glycolic 10% in HA gel?

 

 

I prefer to make my own since is much cheaper, I do know exactly what is in there and how much of it, I can play with slightly different formulations, no concerns about preservatives, etc...

 

You can buy bulk powder ALA by several sellers (I am in Europe and my sources aren't likely to be your best choice), glycolic acid comes cheap and I suggest to buy 50% or stronger and just add distilled water to it in proper amounts in order to get the desired concentration, it comes really cheap this way. 

 

HA gel is very easy to make, just buy bulk HA powder of the desired molecular weight, take a small container with a lid (I use small fake caviar glass jars with screw lid), pour distilled water in it and add 1-2% HA powder, the powder will just sit on top of the water, close the lid and place in the fridge, next day the gel is ready, if not homogeneous stir and wait some more.

 

More in depth.

 

Topical formulations usually work much better when absorbed instead of just sitting on the superficial layer of the epidermis, in order to get the compounds at least in the dermis some strategies need to be employed.

 

ALA is something we definitely want to reach at least the dermis, a liposomal encapsulation is likely to be a quite smart strategy and possibly the best choice for this purpose.

 

Liposomes acts as preservatives to a certain level but since ALA in solution isn't very stable mixing ALA and nicotinamide 10:6 in weight might be smart, plus nicotinamide itself provides some beneficial effects too.

 

In order to make liposomal ALA (or ALA/nicotinamide mix) just pour it in a blender with distilled water and granular soy lecithin, after 1-2 minutes you'll have a cream ready to use, keep in the fridge and make small amounts lasting no more than 30 days at a time (likely about 30g for everyday use on face) just for good measure.

 

The same can be done with other compounds both liposoluble and hydrosoluble, you can mix different compounds and encapsulate them at once in the same liposomes, of course.

 

Glycolic acid doesn't need any absorption enhancer since it acts in the epidermis, it cleans deeply and degrease the skin, is has to be used first if other gels or creams will follow.

 

It goes well with creatine and carnitine tartarate since acidity enhances their water solubility (that of creatine, at least, which is otherwise quite poor) if one wishes so.

 

Can be mixed in the HA gel but it may effect the gel consistency since PH does so to HA, in my experience it doesn't effects the gel consistency too much but it might depend by HA percentage and molecular weight.

 

First the 10% glycolic acid with a brush followed by HA gel or an HA gel with glycolic acid in it, both work nice, up to you the choice, I like the glycolic in the gel but sometimes isn't possible if a compound that doesn't like acidity is added to the gel.

 

If glycolic acid is added to the HA gel its strength has to be calculated accordingly (treat the HA gel as if is water).

 

For example if you have 50% glycolic acid in order to make 30g HA gel at 10% glycolic acid just add 6g of it to 24g HA gel.

 

Here a couple of references to subcutaneous fat loss and retin A

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/17975308

 

http://diabetes.diab.../61/5/1112.full

 

 

 

 


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#196 Logic

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 12:01 AM

I agree with Aconita and think people would do well to note post counts and ₮ points below people's names if they are not prepared to do their own research.
If you want to look things up on Longecity use GoogleSiteSearch in the search dropdown menu at the top of the page.

You want to keep skin looking young; why does it look old in the 1st place..?
You wont get close to that answer without understanding why we age everywhere else too.

In the case of skin specifically I would say that the reason hyaluronase, collagenase and elastase increase is most probably due to the body trying to get rid of Advanced Glycation Endproducts and senescent cells.

ie:  An increase in inflammation in general.

For AGEs, note that all AGE breakers are chelators and that heavy metals catalyse their formation.
By definition a catalyst greatly accelerates a reaction, without being used up in the reaction itself.  So the increase in heavy metal load with each meal.....
I would look at topical, oral and intravenous chelators/therapy and AGE blockers/breakers.
Note that Tiron is able to block 100% of UVA damage.

 

The people that have experimented with senolytics (Dasatinib + Quercetin) are reporting the most improvement in skin that I am aware of on this forum with abnormal growths, blemishes etc falling away.
This protocol removes cells that should have died and been replaced with stem cells, but didn't.
The cells, once dead, are removed by macrophages, which may just take some of the glycated ECM around each dead cell away with it, but i think the improvement is probably due to a decrease in CD38 causing an increase in NAD+ and thus SIRT etc and thus improved cell signalling leading to improved AGE clearance.

Note that replacing a cell in close proximity to a heavy metal deposit is fruitless IMHO...
http://www.longecity...m-nyles/page-11
NB:  This is a powerful anti Cancer drug, so research required.

Another controllable source of inflammation is low level chronic infection.
While the evidence is thin (natural molecules are unpatentable = unprofitable) I would look into Virgin Coconut Oil for its Lauric Acid and synergistic similar acids.
BHT has a similar effect  as well as quenching lipid peroxidation etc and is also rumoured to be a magic ingredient in telomerase activation. Its also a powerful CYP3A4 activator, so will make a lot of supps and meds far less effective. ie:  Research reqd.
There are many others and its worth noting that senescent cells are generally so, due to being infected...

For elastase and collagenase inhibition IIRC look at the synergistic (= far greater than the additive effect) effect of Blackberry leaf and Dill extract mentioned earlier in this thread IIRC.
Also note that the secret ingredient in turning gelatine into collagen is Vit C and that Gelatine increases HGH by up to 8X if you time it properly.
Pine Park Extract actually fixes collagen links IIRC.
Subcutaneous fat:  See the stuff woman rub on their boobs to make them bigger for area specific increase.

Now some lazy, one armed trapeze artist with an itchy arse is most likely going to click 'needs references' in a futile attempt to get more info without actually looking for it themselves?   :)
Again: GoogleSiteSearch in the Search dropdown menu at the top of the page!
It will lead you to the causes of aging if you let it.



 


Edited by Logic, 13 March 2017 - 12:10 AM.

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#197 The Beauty of Peace

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 01:28 AM

 

Also note that the secret ingredient in turning gelatine into collagen is Vit C and that Gelatine increases HGH by up to 8X if you time it properly.
Pine Park Extract actually fixes collagen links IIRC.
Subcutaneous fat:  See the stuff woman rub on their boobs to make them bigger for area specific increase.

Now some lazy, one armed trapeze artist with an itchy arse is most likely going to click 'needs references' in a futile attempt to get more info without actually looking for it themselves?   :)

 

  1. Call me lazy, but what is this stuff that makes boobs bigger?)) GoogleSearch gives me links to exercises and diet.
  2. And when you say "time it properly", you mean that gelatin/collagen should be taken together with Vitamin C?
  3. Also, why would a person who does not have cancer take an anti-cancer drug?! Is there anything else that can be taken together with Quercetin?

~Thanks~

 

P.S.: I had to read your post 3 times... and I still understood only half  :-D


Edited by The Beauty of Peace, 13 March 2017 - 01:41 AM.

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#198 The Beauty of Peace

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 01:31 AM

I prefer to make my own since is much cheaper, I do know exactly what is in there and how much of it, I can play with slightly different formulations, no concerns about preservatives, etc...

 

You can buy bulk powder ALA by several sellers (I am in Europe and my sources aren't likely to be your best choice), glycolic acid comes cheap and I suggest to buy 50% or stronger and just add distilled water to it in proper amounts in order to get the desired concentration, it comes really cheap this way. 

 

HA gel is very easy to make, just buy bulk HA powder of the desired molecular weight, take a small container with a lid (I use small fake caviar glass jars with screw lid), pour distilled water in it and add 1-2% HA powder, the powder will just sit on top of the water, close the lid and place in the fridge, next day the gel is ready, if not homogeneous stir and wait some more.

 

 

Too bad, I am not into DIY stuff, but I will check some products with AHA and HA. Merci beceaup!



#199 Logic

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 09:05 PM

 

 

Also note that the secret ingredient in turning gelatine into collagen is Vit C and that Gelatine increases HGH by up to 8X if you time it properly.
Pine Park Extract actually fixes collagen links IIRC.
Subcutaneous fat:  See the stuff woman rub on their boobs to make them bigger for area specific increase.

Now some lazy, one armed trapeze artist with an itchy arse is most likely going to click 'needs references' in a futile attempt to get more info without actually looking for it themselves?   :)

 

  1. Call me lazy, but what is this stuff that makes boobs bigger?)) GoogleSearch gives me links to exercises and diet.
  2. And when you say "time it properly", you mean that gelatin/collagen should be taken together with Vitamin C?
  3. Also, why would a person who does not have cancer take an anti-cancer drug?! Is there anything else that can be taken together with Quercetin?

~Thanks~

 

P.S.: I had to read your post 3 times... and I still understood only half  :-D

 

 

1:  

Leads, to be researched on Pubmed etc.
http://www.growbreas...ast-enlargement

http://theorganiclif...reafter-photos/

http://theorganiclif...ct/genetix-oil/

https://www.google.c...ssue "zhi mu"&*

http://www.kalidees....lipofilling.pdf

 

Note that the application of these creams for breast growth requires a special technique, known only to men!  :-D 

 

2:

No there is a natural HGH spike 2 hours after taking gelatine and its a good idea to time that to coincide with the natural spikes that occur after falling asleep and also after exercise.

(I dont recall the timing)
it takes a LOT of Gelatin to get an 8X spike:  50 grams.  http://www.ergo-log....gelatinegh.html

 

3:

This is one of the newer cancer drugs, not the old 'hope it kills the cancer cells before it kills the healthy cells' chemo therapies.
With the right dosage and schedule it kills of senescent cells.
Senescent cells are cells that should have died and been replaced but arent.
They cause all manner of nasty pro aging effects.

As I said; people are reporting more skin rejuvenation than any other skin intervention on the forum, as well the disappearance of numerous blemishes and age spots etc.
I don't recommend taking it without doing your homework though.  It's still a powerful drug with side effects.


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#200 Gayle63

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 04:51 PM

 

Examine has a good list.

 

http://examine.com/t...s/Skin Quality/

 

  • Vitamin A
  •  Green Tea Catechins
  • Bladderwrack
  • Pycnogenol
  • Red Clover Extract
  • Astaxanthin
  • Vitamin B3
  • ALA
  • Hemp Protein 
  • Boswellia serrata
  • Ginkgo biloba
  • Orthosiphon stamineus

 

Bladderwrack? Yowza, who names this stuff? lol



#201 Nate-2004

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 06:17 PM

I would look at topical, oral and intravenous chelators/therapy and AGE blockers/breakers.

 

I was looking at IV EDTA treatments the other day, both the criticisms on Quackwatch and the claims made about it. I also saw it was available as a powder on BulkSupplements. I'm not so keen on needles and there's no chance of doing an IV on myself successfully. My brother's a nurse and not bad at doing IVs. What's your opinion EDTA vs Carnosine and on oral vs IV? I've been taking carnosine for over a year now, regularly, every day almost. I was taking it with meals but now I take it between meals. I won't bother with stating anything about whether it has had any positive or negative effect because on that, I'm really not sure. I'm a bad experimenter and didn't take before and after markers. I did take before pictures though, but then I can't take the after without wondering, if positive change, which thing I'm doing I can attribute it to. 

 

Carnosine has gotten so little research compared to other supplements.

 

When I was looking into EDTA treatments around Philly I became discouraged by my skepticism around the other highly questionable things they do in addition to EDTA chelation. Adding vitamins and stuff to the mix, other CAM type treatments like reflexology and "detox" and other things that have long since been proven ineffective. There are also a lot of claims around EDTA and the treatment of specific diseases that have been shown ineffective. 

 

There was nothing around EDTA and AGEs though.



#202 lost69

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 11:24 PM

carnosine is also available as liposomal, lipolife, but due to high cost and little data on effect of carnosine i only bought resveratrol and curcumin liposomes, not carnosine



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#203 bosharpe

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 06:09 PM

Anyone tried Hydrolised marine collagen?



#204 aconita

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 12:10 AM

It isn't different from other hydrolyzed collagens but usually more expensive.

 

Topically makes no sense, orally if it has any effects on aesthetic it is nothing dramatic but it isn't easy to tell.

 

In my case, for example, I have taken it for a few years now, I didn't notice any aesthetic change as I started supplementing it but I haven't worsen in those years neither, actually I improved somehow... but collagen hasn't been my only anti aging.

 

Without collagen would I be where I am now?

 

I don't know, really.

 

It might be subjective too, if someone has collagen production lower than normal it might show more dramatic results than for someone more in the normal range, like with all or most supplements.

 

It is worth a try but without spending a fortune on it, aim for about 2000 Da at 10g/day divided in two doses far from meals.

 

In an open-label study with females with some signs of skin aging then given hydrolyzed collagen (Biocell®; comprised of peptides ranging from 1,000-2,500kDa in weight and some hyaluronic acid with chondroitin) at 1g a day for 12 weeks noted that supplementation was associated with transient increases in wrinkling and crow's feet at six weeks while at the end of the study crow's feets normalized while wrinkles were reduced relative to baseline (13.2%);[71] hydration showed a similar trend over time, ultimately being improved after 12 weeks.[71]

An increase in hemoglobin content of the skin has been noted with supplementation of the Biocell formulation at both 6 and 12 weeks, thought to be reflective of increased dermal microcirculation.[71] Dermal collagen content was noted to be increased at both time points while melanin was not affected.[71]

 

https://examine.com/...pe-ii-collagen/


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#205 bosharpe

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 08:12 PM

Thanks for the reply. May I ask what has worked for you?

 

It isn't different from other hydrolyzed collagens but usually more expensive.

 

Topically makes no sense, orally if it has any effects on aesthetic it is nothing dramatic but it isn't easy to tell.

 

In my case, for example, I have taken it for a few years now, I didn't notice any aesthetic change as I started supplementing it but I haven't worsen in those years neither, actually I improved somehow... but collagen hasn't been my only anti aging.

 

Without collagen would I be where I am now?

 

I don't know, really.

 

It might be subjective too, if someone has collagen production lower than normal it might show more dramatic results than for someone more in the normal range, like with all or most supplements.

 

It is worth a try but without spending a fortune on it, aim for about 2000 Da at 10g/day divided in two doses far from meals.

 

In an open-label study with females with some signs of skin aging then given hydrolyzed collagen (Biocell®; comprised of peptides ranging from 1,000-2,500kDa in weight and some hyaluronic acid with chondroitin) at 1g a day for 12 weeks noted that supplementation was associated with transient increases in wrinkling and crow's feet at six weeks while at the end of the study crow's feets normalized while wrinkles were reduced relative to baseline (13.2%);[71] hydration showed a similar trend over time, ultimately being improved after 12 weeks.[71]

An increase in hemoglobin content of the skin has been noted with supplementation of the Biocell formulation at both 6 and 12 weeks, thought to be reflective of increased dermal microcirculation.[71] Dermal collagen content was noted to be increased at both time points while melanin was not affected.[71]

 

https://examine.com/...pe-ii-collagen/

 



#206 Logic

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 09:06 PM

 

I would look at topical, oral and intravenous chelators/therapy and AGE blockers/breakers.

 

I was looking at IV EDTA treatments the other day, both the criticisms on Quackwatch and the claims made about it. I also saw it was available as a powder on BulkSupplements. I'm not so keen on needles and there's no chance of doing an IV on myself successfully. My brother's a nurse and not bad at doing IVs. What's your opinion EDTA vs Carnosine and on oral vs IV? I've been taking carnosine for over a year now, regularly, every day almost. I was taking it with meals but now I take it between meals. I won't bother with stating anything about whether it has had any positive or negative effect because on that, I'm really not sure. I'm a bad experimenter and didn't take before and after markers. I did take before pictures though, but then I can't take the after without wondering, if positive change, which thing I'm doing I can attribute it to. 

 

Carnosine has gotten so little research compared to other supplements.

 

When I was looking into EDTA treatments around Philly I became discouraged by my skepticism around the other highly questionable things they do in addition to EDTA chelation. Adding vitamins and stuff to the mix, other CAM type treatments like reflexology and "detox" and other things that have long since been proven ineffective. There are also a lot of claims around EDTA and the treatment of specific diseases that have been shown ineffective. 

 

There was nothing around EDTA and AGEs though.

 

 

There seems to be a lot of kickback from big pharma when it comes to chelation Nate.  They stonewall and deride any positive studies so vehemently that one cant help but wonder what they are trying to hide.

http://www.longecity...n-therapy-tact/

http://www.longecity...rapy-with-edta/

 

https://cse.google.c...gsc.q=chelation

 

 

As 'all?' AGE breakers are also chelators:

http://www.longecity...-via-chelation/

http://www.longecity...aminoguanidine/

NB the info on carnosine bioavailability in the above link.  Here's a direct link:

http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=766463

Also not the importance of autophagy:

http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=622003

You should be seeing the dots connect with Senolytics roundabout now..?   :)

 

A lot of topical chelation links here:

https://cse.google.c...al age breakers

 

IIRC there are 2 types of IV EDTA chelation therapy available:

  • The huckster 1 hour session with Calcium EDTA that does little besides lighten your wallet.
  • The real 3 hour long EDTA (without the Calcium) IV therapy, with careful calcium level monitoring.

EDTA is a good extracellular chelator and the ExtraCellular Matrix (ECM), is way more important than most realise, but does not get into cells very well.
Combining it with an Intracellular chelator should be synergistic and there are studies proving the synergy between extra and intracellular chelators.

Timing is VERY important with chelation:  You don't want the chelator 'dropping the ball'  before the metals is safely excreted, so the half life of the chelator is critical to dosage schedule.

I recommend choosing one of the above threads to carry on this conversation.
Chelation (especially topical creams) will improve skin, but it goes deeper than that as the skin will look young due the the whole person actually being young due to a proper chelation/AGE breaker stack/therapy, and that is a little beyond the purview of this thread IMHO? :)


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#207 YOLF

  • Location:Delaware Delawhere, Delahere, Delathere!

Posted 17 April 2017 - 09:33 PM

Anyone tried Hydrolised marine collagen?

Generally collagens that are good for the skin are II, and III, II comes from chicken which is generally culled while still young, but III comes from cows as type I and III and can be derived when the animal is old as marbled meat is preferred and marbling occurs with age. 

 

Fish is a mixed bag... it can come from a young fish or an old fish. It's caught wild. I don't think it's worth it. Personally, I'd rather have bacteria derived collagens II and III so I know what I'm getting. Also the chicken collagen comes from that nasty red thing on the chicken's beak. Whatever else is in it might make you look more wrinkly... I'm wary of current collagen sources and purities.


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#208 YOLF

  • Location:Delaware Delawhere, Delahere, Delathere!

Posted 17 April 2017 - 09:37 PM

 

 

I would look at topical, oral and intravenous chelators/therapy and AGE blockers/breakers.

 

I was looking at IV EDTA treatments the other day, both the criticisms on Quackwatch and the claims made about it. I also saw it was available as a powder on BulkSupplements. I'm not so keen on needles and there's no chance of doing an IV on myself successfully. My brother's a nurse and not bad at doing IVs. What's your opinion EDTA vs Carnosine and on oral vs IV? I've been taking carnosine for over a year now, regularly, every day almost. I was taking it with meals but now I take it between meals. I won't bother with stating anything about whether it has had any positive or negative effect because on that, I'm really not sure. I'm a bad experimenter and didn't take before and after markers. I did take before pictures though, but then I can't take the after without wondering, if positive change, which thing I'm doing I can attribute it to. 

 

Carnosine has gotten so little research compared to other supplements.

 

When I was looking into EDTA treatments around Philly I became discouraged by my skepticism around the other highly questionable things they do in addition to EDTA chelation. Adding vitamins and stuff to the mix, other CAM type treatments like reflexology and "detox" and other things that have long since been proven ineffective. There are also a lot of claims around EDTA and the treatment of specific diseases that have been shown ineffective. 

 

There was nothing around EDTA and AGEs though.

 

 

There seems to be a lot of kickback from big pharma when it comes to chelation Nate.  They stonewall and deride any positive studies so vehemently that one cant help but wonder what they are trying to hide.

http://www.longecity...n-therapy-tact/

http://www.longecity...rapy-with-edta/

 

https://cse.google.c...gsc.q=chelation

 

 

As 'all?' AGE breakers are also chelators:

http://www.longecity...-via-chelation/

http://www.longecity...aminoguanidine/

NB the info on carnosine bioavailability in the above link.  Here's a direct link:

http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=766463

Also not the importance of autophagy:

http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=622003

You should be seeing the dots connect with Senolytics roundabout now..?   :)

 

A lot of topical chelation links here:

https://cse.google.c...al age breakers

 

IIRC there are 2 types of IV EDTA chelation therapy available:

  • The huckster 1 hour session with Calcium EDTA that does little besides lighten your wallet.
  • The real 3 hour long EDTA (without the Calcium) IV therapy, with careful calcium level monitoring.

EDTA is a good extracellular chelator and the ExtraCellular Matrix (ECM), is way more important than most realise, but does not get into cells very well.
Combining it with an Intracellular chelator should be synergistic and there are studies proving the synergy between extra and intracellular chelators.

Timing is VERY important with chelation:  You don't want the chelator 'dropping the ball'  before the metals is safely excreted, so the half life of the chelator is critical to dosage schedule.

I recommend choosing one of the above threads to carry on this conversation.
Chelation (especially topical creams) will improve skin, but it goes deeper than that as the skin will look young due the the whole person actually being young due to a proper chelation/AGE breaker stack/therapy, and that is a little beyond the purview of this thread IMHO? :)

 

EDTA orally is good a day at a time, but dosing is generally too high imo. It will cause intestinal bleeding and the effects of the oral dose are a day one effect that don't persist with continued dosing. There must be better.


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#209 Nate-2004

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 02:54 AM

It isn't different from other hydrolyzed collagens but usually more expensive.

 

Topically makes no sense, orally if it has any effects on aesthetic it is nothing dramatic but it isn't easy to tell.

 

In my case, for example, I have taken it for a few years now, I didn't notice any aesthetic change as I started supplementing it but I haven't worsen in those years neither, actually I improved somehow... but collagen hasn't been my only anti aging.

 

Without collagen would I be where I am now?

 

I don't know, really.

 

It might be subjective too, if someone has collagen production lower than normal it might show more dramatic results than for someone more in the normal range, like with all or most supplements.

 

It is worth a try but without spending a fortune on it, aim for about 2000 Da at 10g/day divided in two doses far from meals.

 

In an open-label study with females with some signs of skin aging then given hydrolyzed collagen (Biocell®; comprised of peptides ranging from 1,000-2,500kDa in weight and some hyaluronic acid with chondroitin) at 1g a day for 12 weeks noted that supplementation was associated with transient increases in wrinkling and crow's feet at six weeks while at the end of the study crow's feets normalized while wrinkles were reduced relative to baseline (13.2%);[71] hydration showed a similar trend over time, ultimately being improved after 12 weeks.[71]

An increase in hemoglobin content of the skin has been noted with supplementation of the Biocell formulation at both 6 and 12 weeks, thought to be reflective of increased dermal microcirculation.[71] Dermal collagen content was noted to be increased at both time points while melanin was not affected.[71]

 

https://examine.com/...pe-ii-collagen/

 

I can't really find any hydrolyzed collagen in the U.S. that is at and around 2000 kDa. Great Lakes says theirs is 2000 to 5000 kDa. Sports Research says about the same for theirs. I think BulkSupplements claimed 1000.  I've been getting Great Lakes. btw I can tell the glycine in that works as far as sleep quality goes. 



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#210 Nate-2004

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 03:05 AM

 

 

I would look at topical, oral and intravenous chelators/therapy and AGE blockers/breakers.

 

I was looking at IV EDTA treatments the other day, both the criticisms on Quackwatch and the claims made about it. I also saw it was available as a powder on BulkSupplements. I'm not so keen on needles and there's no chance of doing an IV on myself successfully. My brother's a nurse and not bad at doing IVs. What's your opinion EDTA vs Carnosine and on oral vs IV? I've been taking carnosine for over a year now, regularly, every day almost. I was taking it with meals but now I take it between meals. I won't bother with stating anything about whether it has had any positive or negative effect because on that, I'm really not sure. I'm a bad experimenter and didn't take before and after markers. I did take before pictures though, but then I can't take the after without wondering, if positive change, which thing I'm doing I can attribute it to. 

 

Carnosine has gotten so little research compared to other supplements.

 

When I was looking into EDTA treatments around Philly I became discouraged by my skepticism around the other highly questionable things they do in addition to EDTA chelation. Adding vitamins and stuff to the mix, other CAM type treatments like reflexology and "detox" and other things that have long since been proven ineffective. There are also a lot of claims around EDTA and the treatment of specific diseases that have been shown ineffective. 

 

There was nothing around EDTA and AGEs though.

 

 

There seems to be a lot of kickback from big pharma when it comes to chelation Nate.  They stonewall and deride any positive studies so vehemently that one cant help but wonder what they are trying to hide.

http://www.longecity...n-therapy-tact/

http://www.longecity...rapy-with-edta/

 

https://cse.google.c...gsc.q=chelation

 

 

As 'all?' AGE breakers are also chelators:

http://www.longecity...-via-chelation/

http://www.longecity...aminoguanidine/

NB the info on carnosine bioavailability in the above link.  Here's a direct link:

http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=766463

Also not the importance of autophagy:

http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=622003

You should be seeing the dots connect with Senolytics roundabout now..?   :)

 

A lot of topical chelation links here:

https://cse.google.c...al age breakers

 

IIRC there are 2 types of IV EDTA chelation therapy available:

  • The huckster 1 hour session with Calcium EDTA that does little besides lighten your wallet.
  • The real 3 hour long EDTA (without the Calcium) IV therapy, with careful calcium level monitoring.

EDTA is a good extracellular chelator and the ExtraCellular Matrix (ECM), is way more important than most realise, but does not get into cells very well.
Combining it with an Intracellular chelator should be synergistic and there are studies proving the synergy between extra and intracellular chelators.

Timing is VERY important with chelation:  You don't want the chelator 'dropping the ball'  before the metals is safely excreted, so the half life of the chelator is critical to dosage schedule.

I recommend choosing one of the above threads to carry on this conversation.
Chelation (especially topical creams) will improve skin, but it goes deeper than that as the skin will look young due the the whole person actually being young due to a proper chelation/AGE breaker stack/therapy, and that is a little beyond the purview of this thread IMHO? :)

 

 

Thanks for all the links on this. Still not so sure about the whole chelation thing. Seems like it needs more study by competent scientists. I saw there were barely significant results in that TACT study and that it was done with poor quality design. I also read the other article on why TACT should have been abandoned, which was pretty dismissive out of hand.

 

I do think that I might try the EDTA by IV but I dunno how I'd go about it or how often or who I could trust around here in Philadelphia.

 

The topical applications of failed Glucosepane / Pentosidine AGE breakers don't seem all that promising. Rosmarinic Acid was shown at least in vitro to be more effective than alagebrium and I gotta be honest. I'm not seeing all that much of a difference in my skin and I've been taking the stuff orally and topically since I started that RA thread. I've still got some left and I'm not sure I'll make anymore or buy anymore RA. The last batch of argan oil / RA mix came from that 30% extract that Tom sells on DynVeo.


Edited by Nate-2004, 18 April 2017 - 03:09 AM.





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