2266 replies to this topic

[PAMPAGUY]

Alive by Nature was my go to site for NR. Seems Chromadex cut them off. So rather than find a new source for NR, they have started selling NMN, and saying how superior it is to NR while playing up Dr. Sinclair.

http://alivebynature.com

[Turnbuckle]

Alive by Nature was my go to site for NR. Seems Chromadex cut them off. So rather than find a new source for NR, they have started selling NMN, and saying how superior it is to NR while playing up Dr. Sinclair.

http://alivebynature.com

 

Thanks for the link, Pampaguy. There's a wealth of information in there, and not just about NMN.

 

NMN is being sold at around $24/gram, so how much did the mice get? The NMN mouse paper is here. The full text is behind a paywall, but the supplemental material can be accessed in a PDF here.  

 

From the paper--

 

In this study, we conducted a 12-month-long NMN administration to regular chow-fed wild-type C57BL/6N mice during their normal aging. Orally administered NMN was quickly utilized to synthesize NAD+ in tissues. Remarkably, NMN effectively mitigates age-associated physiological decline in mice. Without any obvious toxicity or deleterious effects, NMN suppressed age-associated body weight gain, enhanced energy metabolism, promoted physical activity, improved insulin sensitivity and plasma lipid profile, and ameliorated eye function and other pathophysiologies. Consistent with these phenotypes, NMN prevented age-associated gene expression changes in key metabolic organs and enhanced mitochondrial oxidative metabolism and mitonuclear protein imbalance in skeletal muscle.

 

 

And the dosing from the supplemental material--

 

(A) NMN concentrations in freshly prepared NMN-containing drinking water and the leftover of used NMNcontaining

drinking water were periodically measured by HPLC throughout the entire period of NMN

treatment. Percentages of NMN concentrations after 7-10 days in both 100 and 300 mg/kg/day groups were

calculated ...

 

 

Given the study showing NMN to be broken down into NR and then into NAM (N) in the mouse intestine, this seems to be an extraordinarily expensive way of getting N+R.

 

Breakdown can be avoid by injection, as in this previous paper, but the dose was even higher--

 

For NMN treatment, we intraperitoneally administered NMN (Sigma) at the dose of 500 mg/kg body weight/day as indicated in the text and figure legends. This dose was determined in our previous studies...

 

 

 

Edited by Turnbuckle, 03 November 2017 - 10:01 AM.

[PAMPAGUY]

http://www.sci-hub.ac a website for unlocking paywalls on scientific papers.  It has worked for me in the past.  This can really help you get the full text vs only the abstract.

 

Here is the full text website for the mouse study.

 

https://sci-hub.ac/h...550413116304958

Edited by PAMPAGUY, 03 November 2017 - 10:05 AM.

[able]

 

Alive by Nature was my go to site for NR. Seems Chromadex cut them off. So rather than find a new source for NR, they have started selling NMN, and saying how superior it is to NR while playing up Dr. Sinclair.

http://alivebynature.com

 

Thanks for the link, Pampaguy. There's a wealth of information in there, and not just about NMN.

 

NMN is being sold at around $24/gram, so how much did the mice get? The NMN mouse paper is here. The full text is behind a paywall, but the supplemental material can be accessed in a PDF here.  

 

From the paper--

 

In this study, we conducted a 12-month-long NMN administration to regular chow-fed wild-type C57BL/6N mice during their normal aging. Orally administered NMN was quickly utilized to synthesize NAD+ in tissues. Remarkably, NMN effectively mitigates age-associated physiological decline in mice. Without any obvious toxicity or deleterious effects, NMN suppressed age-associated body weight gain, enhanced energy metabolism, promoted physical activity, improved insulin sensitivity and plasma lipid profile, and ameliorated eye function and other pathophysiologies. Consistent with these phenotypes, NMN prevented age-associated gene expression changes in key metabolic organs and enhanced mitochondrial oxidative metabolism and mitonuclear protein imbalance in skeletal muscle.

 

 

And the dosing from the supplemental material--

 

(A) NMN concentrations in freshly prepared NMN-containing drinking water and the leftover of used NMNcontaining

drinking water were periodically measured by HPLC throughout the entire period of NMN

treatment. Percentages of NMN concentrations after 7-10 days in both 100 and 300 mg/kg/day groups were

calculated ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

That NMN is broken down to NR/NAM  seems contradicted by later studies, particularly the long term mouse study where double labeled NMN makes its way to liver in 10 minutes and to muscle in 30 minutes

 

 

[Adaptogen]

How closely are NAD+ and circadian rhythm connected? Is there any evidence supporting taking NR only in the morning, or explicitly not taking it at night?

[able]

Normally we have a peak in NAD+ around noon, and second smaller one as we sleep.

 

Dr Brenner seems to think it isn't so important to supplement to match the nighttime peak and recommends to just take NR in the morning.

 

With a 8 hour delay to peak NAD+, that wouldn't quite match a noon peak (unless you get up early and take it at 4 am), but seems a reasonable compromise.

 

Of course you can always take a second dose in the evening, but I don't think there is any evidence whether or not  that provides a benefit vs one dose a day.

Edited by able, 09 November 2017 - 10:52 PM.

[Ovidus]

When i take regular high NR (1.5/2g ) a day i get mouth ulcers. I start to feel the positive effects but i always notice i get an ulcer at the same time i feel a peak

Mid-twenties guy here. I used HPN NR for roughly 6 months now with 250mg a day in the morning. I didn't notice any difference whatsoever but didn't expect anything noticeable due to my "young age" to begin with.

I want to say that I occasionally I noticed that simple colds with sneezing and coughing lasted longer than they used to but have no proof whatsoever. Since then I stopped NR intake when I got sick and started again when my symptoms were gone.

I am not using NR but rather Nicotinamide + Ribose, however the 2 routes of boosting NAD likely both work.
I have experienced the very issues noted above; both of them. Can you guys please speculate on

- What MOA is responsible for the above
- How to counter these effects?

The issues both point to a weakened immune system, which is a very huge cause for concern over the long run. Living with a compromised immune system for months or years on end while taking NR would open the door to cancer and so many other problems. I strongly believe this should be discussed more...

[Harkijn]

 

When i take regular high NR (1.5/2g ) a day i get mouth ulcers. I start to feel the positive effects but i always notice i get an ulcer at the same time i feel a peak

Mid-twenties guy here. I used HPN NR for roughly 6 months now with 250mg a day in the morning. I didn't notice any difference whatsoever but didn't expect anything noticeable due to my "young age" to begin with.

I want to say that I occasionally I noticed that simple colds with sneezing and coughing lasted longer than they used to but have no proof whatsoever. Since then I stopped NR intake when I got sick and started again when my symptoms were gone.

I am not using NR but rather Nicotinamide + Ribose, however the 2 routes of boosting NAD likely both work.

 

This is  an NR experiences thread. Those who told you that Nicotinamide  and Ribose also boost NAD+ should be able to answer your question. The two  guys you quoted BTW have two different experiences.

Still, if you have any negative experiences simply stop doing whatever you did and recuperate!

[MoreGooderFuture]

An update:  I've been taking 333mg of NR every M, W and F.   Rosacea still in check.  Skin looks better overall.  BHP is still under control. My vision (ability to read without the need for reading glasses) continues to improve.  My ability to hear high frequencies appears to have leveled off.  My dandruff problem has gotten steadily worse.

 

I have a new theory: Since I've been taking NR, I wonder if my body isn't getting adequate iodine.  I ordered an iodine supplement, and hope to report back with some positive results on this.  Niacin supplementation has been linked to a drop in thyroid hormone levels.  Dandruff is a symptom of hypothyroidism.  Perhaps it's a stretch, but there could be a link between NR supplementation and an iodine deficiency.

[Gayle63]

An update:  I've been taking 333mg of NR every M, W and F.   Rosacea still in check.  Skin looks better overall.  BHP is still under control. My vision (ability to read without the need for reading glasses) continues to improve.  My ability to hear high frequencies appears to have leveled off.  My dandruff problem has gotten steadily worse.

 

I have a new theory: Since I've been taking NR, I wonder if my body isn't getting adequate iodine.  I ordered an iodine supplement, and hope to report back with some positive results on this.  Niacin supplementation has been linked to a drop in thyroid hormone levels.  Dandruff is a symptom of hypothyroidism.  Perhaps it's a stretch, but there could be a link between NR supplementation and an iodine deficiency.

My understanding of dandruff is that it can be caused by an overgrowth of yeast, just like the yeast infection women get. If you've also got rosacea (which I also had in the past), then you could try a few things -- eliminating sugar and any product with yeast from your diet, including reducing or cutting out fruit and all alcohol. Never use soap on your face or scalp. Never put hot, hot water on your face. Based on my own experience, my opinion is that your dandruff is probably the rosacea extending to your scalp. Have you been to a dermatologist? You can get on a low dose of doxycycline and I would bet that would clear up both the rosacea and the dandruff. I started on Retin-A in my thirties and that also helped (and I keep using it because it's also great at keeping wrinkles at bay, now that I'm 54!). Although antiobiotics can lead to an overgrowth of yeast, I would try the low-dose doxy first and see how that goes, and then if the dandruff gets worse, try anti-fungal scalp treatments, but I'd bet it's the rosacea causing the problem. Sorry to go off the NR question for a bit! I don't think the NR would cause dandruff.

[MoreGooderFuture]

 

An update:  I've been taking 333mg of NR every M, W and F.   Rosacea still in check.  Skin looks better overall.  BHP is still under control. My vision (ability to read without the need for reading glasses) continues to improve.  My ability to hear high frequencies appears to have leveled off.  My dandruff problem has gotten steadily worse.

 

I have a new theory: Since I've been taking NR, I wonder if my body isn't getting adequate iodine.  I ordered an iodine supplement, and hope to report back with some positive results on this.  Niacin supplementation has been linked to a drop in thyroid hormone levels.  Dandruff is a symptom of hypothyroidism.  Perhaps it's a stretch, but there could be a link between NR supplementation and an iodine deficiency.

My understanding of dandruff is that it can be caused by an overgrowth of yeast, just like the yeast infection women get. If you've also got rosacea (which I also had in the past), then you could try a few things -- eliminating sugar and any product with yeast from your diet, including reducing or cutting out fruit and all alcohol. Never use soap on your face or scalp. Never put hot, hot water on your face. Based on my own experience, my opinion is that your dandruff is probably the rosacea extending to your scalp. Have you been to a dermatologist? You can get on a low dose of doxycycline and I would bet that would clear up both the rosacea and the dandruff. I started on Retin-A in my thirties and that also helped (and I keep using it because it's also great at keeping wrinkles at bay, now that I'm 54!). Although antiobiotics can lead to an overgrowth of yeast, I would try the low-dose doxy first and see how that goes, and then if the dandruff gets worse, try anti-fungal scalp treatments, but I'd bet it's the rosacea causing the problem. Sorry to go off the NR question for a bit! I don't think the NR would cause dandruff.

 

Thanks.  You are right to doubt a connection between NR and dandruff. Correlation does not equate to causation.  But, I don't agree with the hypothesis of rosacea (for which I am very familiar, having fought it for over 2 decades) causing the problems with my scalp.  The symptoms don't line up at all. Severe Rosacea will have pustules and swelling, and exceedingly greasy appearance.  I occurs primarily on the face also the back. Prior to NR, I had it on my face and back.  It is now completely gone from both areas.   Instead, my problem is an excessively dry, flaking scalp that has also spread to my ears.  All symptoms line up with seborrheic dermatitis.

[Gayle63]

 

 

An update:  I've been taking 333mg of NR every M, W and F.   Rosacea still in check.  Skin looks better overall.  BHP is still under control. My vision (ability to read without the need for reading glasses) continues to improve.  My ability to hear high frequencies appears to have leveled off.  My dandruff problem has gotten steadily worse.

 

I have a new theory: Since I've been taking NR, I wonder if my body isn't getting adequate iodine.  I ordered an iodine supplement, and hope to report back with some positive results on this.  Niacin supplementation has been linked to a drop in thyroid hormone levels.  Dandruff is a symptom of hypothyroidism.  Perhaps it's a stretch, but there could be a link between NR supplementation and an iodine deficiency.

My understanding of dandruff is that it can be caused by an overgrowth of yeast, just like the yeast infection women get. If you've also got rosacea (which I also had in the past), then you could try a few things -- eliminating sugar and any product with yeast from your diet, including reducing or cutting out fruit and all alcohol. Never use soap on your face or scalp. Never put hot, hot water on your face. Based on my own experience, my opinion is that your dandruff is probably the rosacea extending to your scalp. Have you been to a dermatologist? You can get on a low dose of doxycycline and I would bet that would clear up both the rosacea and the dandruff. I started on Retin-A in my thirties and that also helped (and I keep using it because it's also great at keeping wrinkles at bay, now that I'm 54!). Although antiobiotics can lead to an overgrowth of yeast, I would try the low-dose doxy first and see how that goes, and then if the dandruff gets worse, try anti-fungal scalp treatments, but I'd bet it's the rosacea causing the problem. Sorry to go off the NR question for a bit! I don't think the NR would cause dandruff.

 

Thanks.  You are right to doubt a connection between NR and dandruff. Correlation does not equate to causation.  But, I don't agree with the hypothesis of rosacea (for which I am very familiar, having fought it for over 2 decades) causing the problems with my scalp.  The symptoms don't line up at all. Severe Rosacea will have pustules and swelling, and exceedingly greasy appearance.  I occurs primarily on the face also the back. Prior to NR, I had it on my face and back.  It is now completely gone from both areas.   Instead, my problem is an excessively dry, flaking scalp that has also spread to my ears.  All symptoms line up with seborrheic dermatitis.

You're probably right,I'm just throwing out a suggestion.My son had horrible sties in his eyes that just would not go away. I took him to Yale, and before that to several reputable eye doctors, and his life revolved around the ointments and hot compresses they prescribed, and since he was in middle school, having bloodshot eyes and swollen eyelids all the time was terrible emotionally. Finally, I figured out it was ocular rosacea. Once he was treated for that, it finally cleared up. Rosacea can take a few forms, all of them awful. I had a really bad case of it for a few years. It was horrible, so I totally sympathize with you. That's awesome that it's cleared up on your face and back! I hope you're able to figure out the dandruff issue, whatever is the ultimate underlying cause of it. These darn bodies...

[onz]

Sharing this here as members often don't visit the retailer section

 

Potential discount with TruNiagen for longecity

[Gingerbread Man]

Everybody is different and everyone has their own beliefs and ways of using increased NAD+ for themselves. I have been taking Niagen with a combination of Ubiquinol in some fashion or other for well over a year now. Early on that combination literally has changed my life. As time has gone by I have found my body doesn't seem to need all of that anymore. As if I am only in need of maintenance doses. My biggest problem is my inability to get restful sleep, mostly due to an overactive brain and a chronic back injury. Through trial and error this is what has me feeling the best and sleeping the best. I have been taking one Jarrow 100mg Tablet just before bed each day. That's it. It has made it easy, cheap and offers me the best sleep.

 

I posted a while back in here about the difference for me between the tablet and capsule forms. It has been tried by another and they have come to the same conclusion. The capsule opens up and all the Niagen is released all at once, where the tablet seems to dissolve more slowly (aka time release) while I am sleeping. Nights where I take the capsule I do not sleep as well as the nights I take the tablets. So for me the question of circadian rhythm is interesting but I feel better overall only taking it at night before bed. Taking it during the day for me gave me bursts of feeling fantastic followed by what felt like minor crashing. Now I am more or less linear throughout the day.

 

Just my thoughts and observations. Good luck to you all.

How closely are NAD+ and circadian rhythm connected? Is there any evidence supporting taking NR only in the morning, or explicitly not taking it at night?

 

 

[able]

 

Everybody is different and everyone has their own beliefs and ways of using increased NAD+ for themselves. I have been taking Niagen with a combination of Ubiquinol in some fashion or other for well over a year now. Early on that combination literally has changed my life. As time has gone by I have found my body doesn't seem to need all of that anymore. As if I am only in need of maintenance doses. My biggest problem is my inability to get restful sleep, mostly due to an overactive brain and a chronic back injury. Through trial and error this is what has me feeling the best and sleeping the best. I have been taking one Jarrow 100mg Tablet just before bed each day. That's it. It has made it easy, cheap and offers me the best sleep.

 

I posted a while back in here about the difference for me between the tablet and capsule forms. It has been tried by another and they have come to the same conclusion. The capsule opens up and all the Niagen is released all at once, where the tablet seems to dissolve more slowly (aka time release) while I am sleeping. Nights where I take the capsule I do not sleep as well as the nights I take the tablets. So for me the question of circadian rhythm is interesting but I feel better overall only taking it at night before bed. Taking it during the day for me gave me bursts of feeling fantastic followed by what felt like minor crashing. Now I am more or less linear throughout the day.

 

Just my thoughts and observations. Good luck to you all.

How closely are NAD+ and circadian rhythm connected? Is there any evidence supporting taking NR only in the morning, or explicitly not taking it at night?

 

 

I have had the same problem - Tons of energy throughout the day, but hard time getting to sleep. 

 

Have switched to decaf, especially after noon, but still sometimes a problem, especially on days of HIIT.

 

Like you, taking some NR before bed really helps.  Although I now prefer taking some in morning, and another dose before bed.

 

I feel the evening dose makes it a bit easier to get to sleep, but more so getting solid restful sleep.

[midas]

Not really sure where to post stuff on here anymore since the NR thread was locked....

 

http://circ.ahajourn.../Suppl_1/A16595

 

 

http://circ.ahajourn.../Suppl_1/A20228

[Harkijn]

Still mice studies but broadening the range of possible beneficial effects of NR.

( I may have posted some severe answers to those who post non-personal stuff here, but times have changed : anyone can post anything anywhere now. So why not here?)

[Michael]

Not really sure where to post stuff on here anymore since the NR thread was locked....

 

http://circ.ahajourn.../Suppl_1/A16595

 

 

http://circ.ahajourn.../Suppl_1/A20228

 

Sure there is: start new threads within the NR subforum on these studies! I was just going to do that myself, but by all means ...

[Harkijn]

I would be interested to hear of any personal experiences with liposomal NR. It is about this product:

https://bpisports.com/blog/niagen/

 

This product is available since March(?). Anyone try this? Did you 'notice' anything?

[Daniel Cooper]

What would be the motivation behind liposomal NR?  Normally, you liposomally encapsulate a compound that doesn't make it through the GI tract intact or otherwise has low bio-availability.

 

It's my understanding the the bio-availability of NR is excellent and a very high percentage ends up being absorbed.

 

 

[Harkijn]

That's what I wonder about too. Do they know something that we don't know? Or is their liposomal matrix mainly of importance for the other ingredients? There might actually be very little NR in their capsules, we just dont know.

In view of their pricing I do not expect that many people have tried it.

[Thedeparted]

I am 33 male, began taking Niagen a little over a month ago, taking 2 caps a day a breakfast.

I felt pretty good throughout except for the past week where I began getting tingling extremities.

I have been waking up with what felt like ulnar nerve entrapment, but it is happening on both hands. On my last day on Niagen my feet felt like they were buzzing they were tingling so much but that has been getting less and less since I stopped.

Today is day 3 off of the Niagen and I again woke up with the numb pinky and ring finger on my left hand.

My only thought is it may be somehow effecting my hashimotos (I have never had any thyroid symptoms in the past,just high antibodies.)

Also I am homozygous C677T MTHFR which I read may be an issue.

Is there anything I can do to stop the tingling, is there any labs I should go have done, and does it sound like the Niagen could have been the problem?

Any and all help would be great.

[Gingerbread Man]

I am 33 male, began taking Niagen a little over a month ago, taking 2 caps a day a breakfast.

I felt pretty good throughout except for the past week where I began getting tingling extremities.

I have been waking up with what felt like ulnar nerve entrapment, but it is happening on both hands. On my last day on Niagen my feet felt like they were buzzing they were tingling so much but that has been getting less and less since I stopped.

Today is day 3 off of the Niagen and I again woke up with the numb pinky and ring finger on my left hand.

My only thought is it may be somehow effecting my hashimotos (I have never had any thyroid symptoms in the past,just high antibodies.)

Also I am homozygous C677T MTHFR which I read may be an issue.

Is there anything I can do to stop the tingling, is there any labs I should go have done, and does it sound like the Niagen could have been the problem?

Any and all help would be great.

I used to have that problem on Gabbapentin but I do not have that on Niagen. I also take my Niagen just before going to bed.

[Harkijn]

does it sound like the Niagen could have been the problem?

Any and all help would be great.

 

I have been reading and posting here for many years now but I don't think anyone reported similar neurological symptoms.

Also: the few, small scale human trials sofar with NR do not issue in such symptoms.

My impression is that something else is going on. You need to consult a doctor ASAP. If your symptoms are caused by, say, vitamin B12 deficiency or hematochromatosis prompt action can prevent permanent neurological damage. 

Hope this helps!

[Thedeparted]

Thank you for the quick replies. The back of my neck/base of my skull has also been sore intermittently as well.

Maybe it's just a mechanical issue (slipped disk), instead of an internal one.

Also I'm clear on hemochromotosis, my iron levels were checked last week.

*attached screenshot about NR and methylation, and thyroid.

Attached Files

•  Screenshot_2017-12-27-17-36-56-1.png   609.19KB   3 downloads

Edited by Thedeparted, 28 December 2017 - 05:06 PM.

[ambivalent]

Thedeparted:

 

It's pretty probable it is NR related. Accounts of extremity pain have been reported several times, in particular by me at high doses but also initially at low doses. Even now upon reintroducing low doses I've noticed the needling pains. I've reported this a couple of the NR threads here but also in the 'N+R' thread manipulating mitochondtial dynamics in the aging theories forum. If you go back a couple of months you'll find my accounts (I can't link for some reason).

 

I have two possibilities theories: increased blood sugar levels (a paper is posted in that thread showing ribose can elevate glycated haemoglobin levels) but also thanks to Turnbuckle increased uric acid levels possibly caused by ribose. The later I'm quite certain is a big part of the problem if not all of it. The easiest way to test if this is your problem is to drink/consume a lot of cherry juice/cherries or celery seed extract. The effect and relief can be quite rapid especially from concentrate.

 

I would say its a problem not to be ignored as I did. But NR is well worth finding a workaround for (imo). I will hopefully know more in a few months if I obtain some blood/urine tests.

 

 

 

Edited by ambivalent, 29 December 2017 - 04:08 PM.

[MikeDC]

Thedeparted:

It's pretty probable it is NR related. Accounts of extremity pain have been reported several times, in particular by me at high doses but also initially at low doses. Even now upon reintroducing low doses I've noticed the needling pains. I've reported this a couple of the NR threads here but also in the 'N+R' thread manipulating mitochondtial dynamics in the aging theories forum. If you go back a couple of months you'll find my accounts (I can't link for some reason).

I have two possibilities theories: increased blood sugar levels (a paper is posted in that thread showing ribose can elevate glycated haemoglobin levels) but also thanks to Turnbuckle increased uric acid levels possibly caused by ribose. The later I'm quite certain is a big part of the problem if not all of it. The easiest way to test if this is your problem is to drink/consume a lot of cherry juice/cherries or celery seed extract. The effect and relief can be quite rapid especially from concentrate.

I would say its a problem not to be ignored as I did. But NR is well worth finding a workaround for (imo). I will hopefully know more in a few months if I obtain some blood/urine tests.

Study shows NR actually alleviate nerve pain by repair nerves. It has cured my prostate pain. If you get pain by taking NR, you might have some serious problems.
A poster on the ChromaDex yahoo board said he cured his stage 3 kidney disease with 125mg Niagen for 3 months. The effectiveness of NR varies a lot between people.

CharlesH2 days ago
I am 70+ had stage 3 kidney disease, but after taking Niagen for almost 3 months now blood test shows GFR 66...no more kidney disease. I didn't even know that was possib

[Harkijn]

@thedeparted. If it is ribose that  you take, your question has a possible answer. The minute amounts of riboside in NR can have no negative effects but the amounts of ribose I have seen mentioned in the N+R threads may lead to a lot of trouble. Whatever the case may be,  I repeat my initial advice: go see a doctor real soon.

[Turnbuckle]

@thedeparted. If it is ribose that  you take, your question has a possible answer. The minute amounts of riboside in NR can have no negative effects but the amounts of ribose I have seen mentioned in the N+R threads may lead to a lot of trouble. Whatever the case may be,  I repeat my initial advice: go see a doctor real soon.

 

 

Minute? NR is more than half ribose.

[ceridwen]

I am getting these tingling feelings too. Not sure that it's Niagen related it may just be happening anyway. Taking NR makes it worse however. I have Hashimotos and I am heterozygous for MTHFR C677T so find the above very interesting. I may just go a get some cherry juice today. My blood glucose is high but could be urea related. Very interesting.