33 replies to this topic

[niner]

In this paper, humans were given various forms of green tea or pure EGCG.  At a dose of 2mg/kg EGCG, which is roughly equivalent to 280 mg of typical GTE in a 70 kg adult, they saw a maximum plasma level of 35 ng/ml EGCG.   When looking at papers that talk about effects on cells in a test tube, take note of the concentration they use and the length of time the cells are exposed.  Such in vitro experiments are typically run at high concentrations for a long time, and while they might tell you something about biochemical mechanisms, you can't take it as evidence that the compound will have the same effect in the body.  The body rapidly metabolizes xenobiotics, and things like polyphenols are particularly quickly removed.  The maximum concentration seen in plasma only lasts for a matter of minutes, since the compound is typically being removed even faster than it's being absorbed.  The testosterone effect discussed at biohacks was said to be in vivo, but the linked paper was in vitro.  Not sure what to make of that, but generally speaking, all in vitro work should be eyed with suspicion.  Over-interpretation of in vitro results is the classic noob error.

[Area-1255]

In this paper, humans were given various forms of green tea or pure EGCG.  At a dose of 2mg/kg EGCG, which is roughly equivalent to 280 mg of typical GTE in a 70 kg adult, they saw a maximum plasma level of 35 ng/ml EGCG.   When looking at papers that talk about effects on cells in a test tube, take note of the concentration they use and the length of time the cells are exposed.  Such in vitro experiments are typically run at high concentrations for a long time, and while they might tell you something about biochemical mechanisms, you can't take it as evidence that the compound will have the same effect in the body.  The body rapidly metabolizes xenobiotics, and things like polyphenols are particularly quickly removed.  The maximum concentration seen in plasma only lasts for a matter of minutes, since the compound is typically being removed even faster than it's being absorbed.  The testosterone effect discussed at biohacks was said to be in vivo, but the linked paper was in vitro.  Not sure what to make of that, but generally speaking, all in vitro work should be eyed with suspicion.  Over-interpretation of in vitro results is the classic noob error.

The conflict between the two did get me to scratch my head a little bit too, nevertheless - great point. Chronic vs Acute and In Vivo vs In Vitro are two very pertinent parameters that can't be overlooked.

[Area-1255]

Also brain regions and whether it is studied based on maximum concentration, also the cross-interactions between regions can't be discounted, just like we never know the full details of the subjects/participants either.

 

Edited by Area-1255, 27 August 2014 - 01:42 AM.

[bobz1lla]

The body of evidence for Green Tea Catechins is pretty substantial.  And most is positive.  (IIRC you can get EGCG by itself, which has its own side effects when you take it away from the other natural catechins.) 

 

I wanted to bring up another concern cited years ago on this forum.  I decided on GTE due to the concerns of higher flouride and aluminum content being found in Tea nowadays.  Whether it's black, white, green, or w/e, the Industrialized practices of countries like China and India are a problem.  The plant has a remarkable affinity for pulling up metals from soil, especially Fl and Al.  There's a few threads from years ago which discuss this a little.  It's sad we must consider these risks, due to excess pollution.

 

I narrowed down my choices to LEF's and New Chapter's Green/White blend.  I really like NC's commitment to organic, as most of this comes from Japan, which is a higher quality plant.  See "Matcha" chart earlier in this thread.  Various articles around the web point to less soil contamination in Japan.  And White tea is harvested earlier than Green tea, has a lower profile of heavy metals, and is generally higher quality.

 

From what I've read, Flouride and Aluminum are much worse when seen together.  They form a bond which is more dangerous than by themselves.  If you do some deep searching, you can find a 2010/2011 post about the Fl and Al content in LEF's extracts.  "Anonymous #1, if fluoride concerns you, try our capsules. There's no fluoride in them." "Our extraction process eliminates fluoride from the product. We offer a certificate of analysis for the product which shows the chemical composition of each capsule."

 

It's a pain in the ass to test Al.  Read some opinions that say the catechins might be enough protection by themselves.  You could reduce Al by buying higher quality tea from Japan, which 'should' have less on average, than tea from China/India.  I just wish someone knew where lef sources their Tea from.  It's probably China.  Oh and the Japanese tea is more expensive. $      And I'll speculate the process for making these extracts may leave some of the Al metal behind.

 

I prefer decaf, so I purchased the LEF extract.  They say one capsule is equivalent to about 3 cups.

 

I will be supplementing 100mg L-Theanine as a precaution, as it has been shown to reduce Al toxicity.  It's a good thing Green Tea has this amino acid by default.  I also take Curcumin which as also shown to help with Al.  Finally I'll eat oatmeal and endeavor to drink beer, as both have Silica, which helps leech Al from the body.  I may be over doing it, but it's not much of a burden to add a little L-Theanine.

 

More info on how to prevent Al accumulation.  http://www.naturalhe...inum-poisoning/

Edited by bobz1lla, 31 August 2014 - 04:58 PM.